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European Rugby Challenge Cup Final - Edinburgh V Gloucester

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Post by RDW Mon 20 Apr 2015, 8:43 am

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Edinburgh V Gloucester

Friday 1st May 2015, KO 19:45
The Twickenham Stoop, Twickenham
Live on BT Sport

Referee Jerome Garces (France)
Touch Judge 1 Pascal Gauzere (France)
Touch Judge 2 Mathieu Raynal (France)
Fourth Official Eric Gauzins (France)
TMO Eric Gauzins (France)

Citing Commissioner Yves Thieffine (France)

Route to the final

Edinburgh

UBB 10 - Edinburgh 24
Edinburgh 25 - Lyon 17
Edinburgh 28 - London Welsh 13
London Welsh 6 - Edinburgh 24
Lyon 21 - Edinburgh 19
Edinburgh 38 - UBB 20

London Irish 18 - Edinburgh 23
Edinburgh 45 - Dragons 16

Gloucester

Gloucester 55 - Brive 0
Oyonnax 15 - Gloucester 25
Gloucester 35 - Zebre 10
Zebre 16 - Gloucester 32
Gloucester 33 - Oyonnax 3
Brive 20 - Gloucester 31

Gloucester 14 - Connacht 7
Gloucester 30 - Exeter Chiefs 19


Teams

Edinburgh
European Rugby Challenge Cup Final - Edinburgh V Gloucester - Page 5 Sam+Hidalgo+Clyne+Edinburgh+Rugby+v+London+cwEx-KiqwRkl
Tonks; Fife, Beard, Strauss, Visser; Burleigh, Hidalgo-Clyne; Dickinson, Ford, Nel, Bresler, Toolis, Coman, Grant, Du Preez.

Replacements: McInally, Sutherland, Andress, McKenzie, Watson, Fowles, Heathcote, Brown.

Gloucester
European Rugby Challenge Cup Final - Edinburgh V Gloucester - Page 5 Greig+Laidlaw+qNTjtak2uwVm
Sharples; May, Meakes, Twelvetrees (capt), Purdy; Hook, Laidlaw; Wood, Hibbard, Afoa, Savage, Palmer, Moriarty, Kvesic, Evans.

Replacements: Dawidiuk, Thomas, Puafisi, Galarza, Rowan, Robson, Burns, McColl.

Official Preview
PREVIEW: Will Sam be the man for Edinburgh?
Sam Hidalgo-Clyne has lit up Scottish rugby this season and spearheaded the Edinburgh Rugby march to their first Challenge Cup final.

Three Heineken Man of the Match awards, and a club European record 28 point haul against Bordeaux-Begles at Murrayfield, have showcased his talent this season and he is set to be a key man in their Edinburgh's push for an historic first professional rugby title at Twickenham Stoop.

As his side's main player maker and goalkicker he is bound to be a target for Gloucester Rugby's players on Friday night and the west country club's director of rugby, David Humphreys, is obviously a fan.

"Sam has become one of the superstars of the game. When you look at how he has performed for Edinburgh in Europe this season he has been outstanding," said Humphreys.

But while the Gloucester back row will be on red alert in the final so, too, will be the Edinburgh side as they try to contain their former team mate Greig Laidlaw. The Scotland skipper has been hugely influential for the Kingsholm team since switching allegiance last summer.

With half-back partner James Hook, and front row recruits John Afoa and Richard Hibbard, he has been able to steer Gloucester into the final without losing. In the final they will attempt to do what Peter Buxton's side of 2006 did and go the full nine games unbeaten.

Gloucester's best form has been saved for Europe this season and the tournament is their only lifeline into next seasons Champions Cup. Win it, and they will go into the play-off for the 20th place, something their meagre ninth place in the Premiership won't offer them.

That will give them extra incentive on the night, although Edinburgh will come into the game with great momentum having demolished Zebre and the Dragons in their last two games. Their added incentive is to become the first Scottish team to win a major trophy - and to beat Glasgow Warriors to the punch!

The big battle is going to be in the front five, where both teams have established sound reputations. Gloucester have the best scrum stats in the Premiership for getting the ball back into play, while the introduction of Aussie-born lock Ben Toolis has added power and agility to the Edinburgh pack. Whoever gets on top at scrum time will have a clear advantage.

Richard Hibbard v Ross Ford at hooker will be a key battle, as will the one between Alasdair Dickinson and John Afoa at prop. The Edinburgh back row will have to deal with Matt Kvesic, the tournament's turn-over king, at the breakdown and if they can stop him from being as effective and influential as usual then it will do them a lot of good.

"We know we are going to play against a highly motivated Edinburgh side and will need to play at our very best to win. We need our international players to stand up and give us international class performances," added Humphreys.

The last time Gloucester reached the Challenge Cup final they needed extra-time to overcome London Irish. That was nine years ago and their last trophy came in 2011 when they won the Anglo-Welsh Cup.

Edinburgh have yet to win a trophy in the professional era, other than the 1872 Cup played for annually between themselves and arch-rivals Glasgow Warriors, and one of the big questions for them to answer at the Twickenham Stoop will be how will they cope with the pressure of the major occasion.

When they met in the European Cup pool stages last season they ended up with an away win each. Who will be the winner on the road this time with a major trophy at stake? It's too tight to call!

Match Facts
•Edinburgh are the first Scottish club to reach a European final while Gloucester - the 2006 champions - will be in appearing in their second decider.
•The competition has been won by an English club on 10 occasions, more than any other nation. French clubs have won the title six times, with Ireland and Wales on one each.
•Gloucester and Edinburgh have never met in the Challenge Cup before, but have played each other four times in Europe's top flight with the Cherry and Whites winning three.
•Gloucester have a 100% record this season and aim to repeat their 2005/06 feat of winning every game on their way to lifting the trophy.
•Edinburgh have the best lineout success (90%) in the competition with Ben Toolis the top lineout winner (44 including steals).
•The two finalists boast the two top scorers in the competition with Greig Laidlaw's 67 points bettered only by Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (91).
•Despite playing the maximum amount of games in this season's Challenge Cup, Gloucester (8) and Edinburgh (11) have conceded fewer tries than any other sides in the competition.
•Matt Kvesic has made the most tackles in the competition completing 97 of his 110 attempts. He has also won the most turnovers (15).
•Of the 370 players who have won the Challenge Cup, 131 are English and eight Scottish. The Scottish winners are: Joe Ansbro (Northampton Saints 2009), Craig Chalmers (Harlequins 2001), Scott Gray (Northampton Saints 2009), Kenny Logan (Wasps 2003), Euan Murray (Northampton Saints 2009), Bryan Redpath (Sale Sharks 2002, 2005), Tom Smith (Northampton Saints 2009), Barry Stewart (Sale Sharks 2005).

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Post by VinceWLB Fri 01 May 2015, 9:40 pm

Solomons coaching can only get you this far, IMO.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Fri 01 May 2015, 9:48 pm

I only wish Solomons would take on a backs coach. Our forwards are quality, but we need more ideas in the backs. In truth I'm gutted that Mike Blair is going to Glasgow, and can't get over how underwhelmed Weeg fans were when it was announced he had signed. If there was ever a player I had confidence in to become an excellent coach it would be him

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Post by IanBru Fri 01 May 2015, 9:59 pm

Solomons' coaching is what got Edinburgh this far. They are what they are because of him. I honestly don't know how you can look at Edinburgh's European journey and be disappointed.

BTW, congrats to Gloucester, very well done guys. Enjoy yourself in that London!
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Post by VinceWLB Fri 01 May 2015, 10:04 pm

IanBru wrote:Solomons' coaching is what got Edinburgh this far. They are what they are because of him. I honestly don't know how you can look at Edinburgh's European journey and be disappointed.

BTW, congrats to Gloucester, very well done guys. Enjoy yourself in that London!

It's Stevie Scott who is coaching the forwards, Solomons takes care of the backs.

Finals are meant to be won. So not being disappointed would be strange.

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Post by justified sinner Fri 01 May 2015, 10:24 pm

Well done Gloucester deserved to win that. Edinburgh didn't play well, but could have nicked it with a bit more composure. Not sure what scrum the ref was reffing other than that thought he'd a decent game.

Touchy on our side missed an off the ball punch by Moriarty which might not have been picked up on tv either, way off the ball so no blame on the ref.

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Post by SecretFly Fri 01 May 2015, 10:35 pm

I guess it was won for Gloucester in that first half. Yes, they were value for money in the intensity and pace of their attack, but even they were probably surprised at how easily they were punching through the Edinburgh defence. Edinburgh will be kicking themselves that they fell off tackles so easily in that first half. They just came to the game too late.

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Post by RDW Fri 01 May 2015, 11:15 pm

I've got to say I think Edinburgh were a real disappointment - we just didn't turn up for large parts of that match - Gloucester thoroughly deserved to win.

We were too soft in the tackle first half (no self respecting defence should concede off first phase) and just didn't take our chances 2nd half even though we somehow found ourselves in a position to win the match.

And so it was - Edinburgh's forwards couldn't come out on top, so we lost.

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Post by Majestic83 Fri 01 May 2015, 11:38 pm

Disappointing from edinburgh tonight. The pack which has been superb recently didn't perform to the level they can do.
Not enough aggression and physicality.
The backs just didn't get enough ball to really make an impression. Burleigh was poor at 10, kicking from hand was pretty poor and aimless.
Visser was anonymous most of the night and really didn't contribute. For me that should be his last game for edinburgh as his current form does not deserve for him to be picked.
Watson, Mckenzie and mcinally all looked good when they came on.
Gloucester were lucky to hold out for the win. Even more so to finish the game with 14 men. Moriarty deserved a red card for his knee in the back, disgusting play and deserves a long ban.

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Post by highland_scot Sat 02 May 2015, 12:59 am

justified sinner wrote:Well done Gloucester deserved to win that. Edinburgh didn't play well, but could have nicked it with a bit more composure. Not sure what scrum the ref was reffing other than that thought he'd a decent game.

Touchy on our side missed an off the ball punch by Moriarty which might not have been picked up on tv either, way off the ball so no blame on the ref.

Also pretty sure I say a stamp on Cornell's knee, it looked nasty from what I could see but I'd have to watch again to be sure. Was in the 2nd half around Edinburgh's 22.

Glaws certainly deserved to win; their backs were a cut above, they got parity in the forwards (first up tackling was much much better than us) and they showed good game smarts at the end to shut up shop. Well played!

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Post by bedfordwelsh Sat 02 May 2015, 7:47 am

Gloucester and May especially seemed to be able to rip Edinburgh apart at will in the first half and should have put the game out of sight by half time.
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Post by HongKongCherry Sat 02 May 2015, 8:16 am

Completely agree with Bedford we should have been out of site in the first half and really should have scored 2 or 3 more tries. But one thing is for sure Glaws always like making life difficult for themselves and we let Edinburgh back in the game and I genuinely thought we'd lose it at the end. The overriding emotion is still one of relief rather than excitement.

Laidlaw definitely won the battle of the Scottish 9s and his game management was excellent particualry in the last 5 minutes when we showed great composure.

Our scrum got thumped and when did Al Dickinson learn to scrummage?! He was rubbish for us! In fairness to Afoa he spent 60 minutes hobbling around the pitch with a leg injury and there is no doubt had we an able back up he would have gone off at half time.

Tom Savage had another huge game for us and he really is turning into that essential club player. His work rate was phenomenal.

May and Sharples both showed what they are capable of and they both could and should of scored. On the opposite wing Quins fans wouldn't have been overjoyed with Visser's game as he was pretty ineffective.

I thought Meakes' red card was a tad harsh given the Edinburgh player was acting as a blocking runner and it looked more like he was just trying to get him out the way. But it was high so you always run the risk. Given Moriarty's offence perhaps things evened themselves out. I wouldn't be surprised if he is cited which given our backrow injuries could put huge pressure on us for the playoffs.

Genuine commiserations to the Edinburgh fans and here's to facing you again in these daft playoffs Ale
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Post by RDW Sat 02 May 2015, 8:26 am

There is a real chance Edinburgh will finish 7th and we'll have a rematch on our hands in a few weeks!

I fancy Edinburgh if we get a home game (decided by coin toss Rolling Eyes ) but wouldn't fancy our chances at all if we were traveling down to you lot.

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Post by HongKongCherry Sat 02 May 2015, 8:36 am

I agree that the home team will win, so rather than put ourselves through 80 minutes of gruelling rugby why not just let the coin toss decide the winner?!
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Post by LondonTiger Sat 02 May 2015, 8:50 am

HongKongCherry wrote:I thought Meakes' red card was a tad harsh given the Edinburgh player was acting as a blocking runner and it looked more like he was just trying to get him out the way.

When they first ran a replay, and several after, for assessment it was in slo-mo and looked like a vicious stiff-arm to the head. Watching it looked like a clear-cut red and long ban. Only after he was sent packing was it shown at full speed (and not closeup) where it started to look innocuous and indeed an attempt to get past a blocker.

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 May 2015, 8:58 am

Well done Gloucester, bad luck Edinburgh. They looked well beaten in the first half and yet in the end it was very close and a bit more composure close to the line might have sneaked it for them.

Burleigh after a great game in the semi, was all over the place last night and maybe showed us that he was actually a 12 playing out of position. Edinburgh really do seem to be a 10 short of being a decent team and there is no obvious answer at the moment, I don't think Tonks is up to the job either and neither does Solly as he rarely seems to play him there.

Tonks did not have a great game either. Was he hooked because he was injured or because Brown was a better bet. Tom Brown has actually looked a decent prospect in the past few games and certainly played better once he came on.

It was a great never say die attitude from Edinburgh though, proving that they are a tough side to put away now and they were very close in the end. They have come a long way this season and actually should be very pleased with getting this far. I have enjoyed watching them, which is a lot more than you could have said the previous couple of years!

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 May 2015, 9:00 am

LondonTiger wrote:
HongKongCherry wrote:I thought Meakes' red card was a tad harsh given the Edinburgh player was acting as a blocking runner and it looked more like he was just trying to get him out the way.

When they first ran a replay, and several after, for assessment it was in slo-mo and looked like a vicious stiff-arm to the head. Watching it looked like a clear-cut red and long ban. Only after he was sent packing was it shown at full speed (and not closeup) where it started to look innocuous and indeed an attempt to get past a blocker.

They always look worse in slo-mo and yes he probably was a little unlucky but if you go that high off the ball you take a big risk.

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Post by VinceWLB Sat 02 May 2015, 9:05 am

Where was the breakdown threat from Edinburgh in the last 5 mins? At times they were like headless chickens to tackle the Glaws player but nobody was there to challenge the ball, Gloucester had an easy time killing off those 5 mins. Sorry to say but Watson probably showed why he isn't international quality yet, got turned over at a crucial time too around the 70 min mark. Edinburgh best player at the breakdown this season (Cochrane) wasn't even on the matchday squad. So while i think this loss is mainly for the players Solomons has to take some responsibility. Ford and Dickinson were out of their feet at the end.

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Post by VinceWLB Sat 02 May 2015, 9:13 am

The sad thing about this result is Schiz is probably the happiest man in the world right now!

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Post by jimbopip Sat 02 May 2015, 9:39 am

Harsh, Vince warning

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Post by jimbopip Sat 02 May 2015, 9:40 am

But probably true laughing

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Post by RDW Sat 02 May 2015, 9:44 am

VinceWLB wrote:Where was the breakdown threat from Edinburgh in the last 5 mins? At times they were like headless chickens to tackle the Glaws player but nobody was there to challenge the ball, Gloucester had an easy time killing off those 5 mins. Sorry to say but Watson probably showed why he isn't international quality yet, got turned over at a crucial time too around the 70 min mark. Edinburgh best player at the breakdown this season (Cochrane) wasn't even on the matchday squad. So while i think this loss is mainly for the players Solomons has to take some responsibility. Ford and Dickinson were out of their feet at the end.

I do think Scottish teams are naive at the breakdown - we seem to give away needles penalties to give teams an 'easy out' when it would have been better not trying to force a penalty and just let them clear their lines under pressure.

We also get turned over a lot attacking the 22 - people get greedy and don't commit to rucks.

It's a good point on Watson, but to be fair to him he's been out injured a few weeks now so would have been a bit rusty. Tonks too - I suspect he wasn't fit.

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Post by jimbopip Sat 02 May 2015, 9:58 am

RDW, genuinely sorry you , ultimately, had a disappointing evening. Personally I would have had Watson and McInally on from the start: they have been outstanding and both must be in contention for World Cup squad places.
The Luvvies are not far from having a decent team. I think you are at the Sean Lineen phase, where Soloman is trying to make you hard to beat first and last. It is frustrating because like Gatsby the promised land seems so close you can almost touch it. But not yet.
So can the Exfoliators pick themselves up for two, possibly three, more games? Hope so.
Next steps: get an attacking coach, find a young Scottish 10 and work around him (Jackson/Meatball/ Dancer), have a vision of how you want to play, which reflects the club's core beliefs, and stick with it.
These things and more the Toonie has brought to us. All hail the Magic Tombola.

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Post by Exiledinborders Sat 02 May 2015, 4:56 pm

BigGee wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
HongKongCherry wrote:I thought Meakes' red card was a tad harsh given the Edinburgh player was acting as a blocking runner and it looked more like he was just trying to get him out the way.

When they first ran a replay, and several after, for assessment it was in slo-mo and looked like a vicious stiff-arm to the head. Watching it looked like a clear-cut red and long ban. Only after he was sent packing was it shown at full speed (and not closeup) where it started to look innocuous and indeed an attempt to get past a blocker.

They always look worse in slo-mo and yes he probably was a little unlucky but if you go that high off the ball you take a big risk.

Did they have a big screen at the Stoop? The ref took the recommendation of the TMO but did not seem to have seen the incident. If he had I am sure it would have been a yellow at most.

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Post by RDW Sat 02 May 2015, 5:41 pm

There was a big screen in the south east corner.

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 02 May 2015, 7:52 pm

I still think Meakes was a red card offence, just nowhere near as bad as i initially thought from slo-mo.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 02 May 2015, 9:31 pm

Not a good performance from Edinburgh but we always knew that Glaws had the better individual talent in the back line and that ultimately made the difference. Twelvetrees vs Strauss and Visser vs May is probably where the contrasts were most stark. If we are going to use Strauss at 12, a defensive player, then missing tackles is unforgivable.

Solomons has done a great job with the squad culture and the forwards, and he should be retained, but we now need a specialist backs coach and one or two high quality backs signings.

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Post by lostinwales Sat 02 May 2015, 11:16 pm

watching on Utube and that May break was something else, as was the tap tackle that stopped him and saved a certain try

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Post by George Carlin Sun 03 May 2015, 8:04 am

Also got a chance to watch the game properly - feel sorry for Edinburgh - they chose the final to have what was by far their worst performance in Europe this season.

The other thing to note was how well the Cherries pack fronted up - they were robust and did enough to give the backs what ball they needed.

Edinburgh cannot have any complaints about the result - they were second best for a full hour of that match. Definite progress this season from them, and I hope they get 7th so that we can have a rematch.
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Post by RDW Sun 03 May 2015, 8:33 am

Cornel Du Preez's two try saving tap tackles - what an effort that 2nd one was particularly! Especially since he's been out injured so long.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8FLUjSBRCnA


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Post by VinceWLB Sun 03 May 2015, 11:11 am

What about his pass for the winger near the 70 mark too? For someone who just came back from a 6 months layoff he was phenomenal, highest tackle count in the team too. Edinburgh better gives him a 3 years deal right now!

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Post by Nematode Sun 03 May 2015, 11:58 am

I didn't get to see the match Crying or Very sad

What were the key points about Edinburgh?

Did the pack collapse or were the backs not up to the job (I'm guessing the latter)?

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Post by SecretFly Sun 03 May 2015, 12:03 pm

The key point for me was the first half when the Gloucester guys (using afterburners a lot of the time, it has to be said) were cutting through the Edinburgh defence like it simply wasn't there.  

The Edinburgh players simply weren't up for or weren't prepared for the level of defensive duties they were asked to take on.  But they should have expected a tougher test in a final and paid the price of a slow warm up by falling off tackles with alarming frequency.

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Post by George Carlin Sun 03 May 2015, 12:07 pm

Nematode wrote:I didn't get to see the match Crying or Very sad

What were the key points about Edinburgh?

Did the pack collapse or were the backs not up to the job (I'm guessing the latter)?
I agreed with this report from Smithers in the Hootsmon:
Edinburgh are soft touch for dominant Gloucester
IAIN MORRISON22:23 Saturday 02 May 2015


THERE is a Gary Larson cartoon that has a man in an orchestra holding a huge pair of cymbals and the thought bubble coming from his head reads: “I must not mess up. I must not mess up.” The caption simply says: “Brian messes up”. Edinburgh had their solitary shot at glory in the European Challenge Cup final on Friday night at Twickenham Stoop in West London, and they messed it up right royally.

Coach Alan Solomons had adopted a low-key, softly softly approach in the build-up, which is fair enough, until his side adopted the same approach to the first half-hour of the game, after which they were trailing 10-3 to Gloucester.

It took Edinburgh 34 minutes to mount their first serious and sustained attack inside the Gloucester half, by which time this match should have been all over. Gloucester scored one try in the opening half-hour but it would have been three had Cornell du Preez not made two try-saving tap tackles on Gloucester’s quick men, and it could have been four had Gloucester executed better with their five-metre scrum against a short-handed Edinburgh side who had lock Anton Bresler sitting in the bin.

Edinburgh were bullied into submission, if you like, after the enigmatic Gloucester skipper Billy Twelvetrees enjoyed one of his more physically effective turns in a cherry and red shirt. His try in the first quarter of the match, courtesy of man of the match Jonny May, meant that Edinburgh were playing catch-up for most of the match and they are simply not designed for such an enterprise.

This was a failure not so much of tactics but of imagination and resolve. Edinburgh didn’t look remotely up for the fight although Solomons denied as much after the 19-13 defeat, insisting his side had been mentally prepared for the physical onslaught that Gloucester unleashed. But listening to his explanation of where Edinburgh had come up short, territory, possession, the aerial battle, the kicking contest, the contact area, momentum... there was precious little else left but the mental side of things.

“I thought that when Fordy got the try and we went 19-13 I thought we had a real, real chance to win it,” Solomons said post-match. “They looked to be struggling a little bit. They had a man off and we got deep into their 22.

“That was a major factor because they got a penalty and kicked to the line, won another penalty and kicked to the line and then held on to to the ball for the rest of the game. That was the big opportunity that we had, while agreeing that in the first half there was no question they were well on top with their 13-6 lead at half-time, but I think we had the opportunity there to snatch a win.”

They may have had the opportunity but had Edinburgh actually won this final it would have gone down as grand larceny. Edinburgh showed courage while under the cosh in that first half but they scored their one try only after Gloucester were reduced to 13 men and they failed to add to their total throughout the final 15 minutes when the opposition was still short-handed.

Gloucester’s director of rugby David Humphreys placed the praise for that rearguard action firmly on the shoulders of Twelvetrees and scrum-half Greig Laidlaw, sat beside him at the post-match conference: “They made good decisions, they kept the ball and really didn’t give Edinburgh a chance.”

“I was obviously delighted to win the game,” said the Scot when asked about his emotions after besting his former club. “It is my first season at the club and we have won a good competition. I am very, very happy but I still have some good mates at Edinburgh. I am a humble person so it’s tough to see them at the end. But that’s why I came down to Gloucester, to win things.

“Credit to Edinburgh. Once we went down to 13, 14 men they started to open the ball up and tried to stretch up but we showed great character to get a turnover in our 22 and grab a little bit of field position and that’s what’s given us the game in the end.”

Will Edinburgh’s battered and bruised players be able to pick themselves up off the canvas and come out swinging again next week when they return to the day job with a vital league match against Dragons in Newport?

“Yeah I think they will be disappointed,” replied Solomons, “but the one thing we have prided ourselves on is resilience and we will just have to show something. We have been happy to do that because we have made progress in the Challenge Cup, we have had to play every week, but we have been happy about that because we wanted to make progress.

“Yes, it’s tough but the guys are determined to see out the season in good style.”

Edinburgh are one point behind the Scarlets who sit in that coveted sixth place, the last place that guarantees Champions Cup action next season. If Edinburgh remain in seventh place they will enter the playoff system where they will face...Gloucester.

On Friday’s performance, Edinburgh will have to hope that the Scarlets slip up somewhere between now and the finish line.
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Post by Nematode Sun 03 May 2015, 12:15 pm

Bit concerning that.

We really need Bureligh (12) and Brown (14) playing IMO.

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Post by RDW Sun 03 May 2015, 2:52 pm

Full game is now on YouTube.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sun 03 May 2015, 9:07 pm

Solomons has done some very good things with Edinburgh, but if he continues to pick Strauss at 12 he will always be open to criticism. It is madness to keep making the same mistake and expecting a different outcome.

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Post by TJ Sun 03 May 2015, 9:37 pm

I enjoyed the game. Surprising number of cards for what was not a dirty game but the red card was outrageous. The player responsible should be facing a long long ban for that. One of the nastiest most dangerous pieces of foul play I have seen for a long time

Edinburgh showed a lack of creativity, belief and guts but had a chance to win. Gloucester closed the game out very well and for that if for no other reason deserved to win.

Just a match too far for Edinburgh

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Post by Exiledinborders Sun 03 May 2015, 10:05 pm

TJ wrote:I enjoyed the game.  Surprising number of cards for what was not a dirty game but the red card was outrageous.  The player responsible should be facing a long long ban for that.  One of the nastiest most dangerous pieces of foul play I have seen for a long time

Edinburgh showed a lack of creativity, belief and guts but had a chance to win.  Gloucester closed the game out very well and for that if for no other reason deserved to win.

Just a match too far for Edinburgh
The 'player responsible' presumably is the Edinburgh player running a blocking line rather than the Glaws player trying to get past him.

To be fair though Moriarty should have had a red rather than yellow. Meakes 'offence' should have been a penalty for Glaws.

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Post by LondonTiger Sun 03 May 2015, 10:19 pm

Irrespective of the illegality of the running line, Meakes was still round the neck and deserved red. Looked a lot worse on slo-mo than it really was. Will probably get a couple of weeks ban after good behaviour and pleading guilty added in.

Moriarty was brainless and should also have seen red. Mind brainless hot headedness does run in his family. If cited and the act, rather than the consequence, is penalise - then he could well miss the rest o fteh season.

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Post by RDW Sun 03 May 2015, 10:20 pm

I don't see why people are getting in such a flap about Beard's 'blocking' line - happens all the time with the kiwis. aussies, Irish, Welsh, any super rugby team etc.

And it doesn't warrant someone clotheslining him, even if he was in the way!

I'm just delighted we actually ran a backs move - I think that is only the 2nd time this season!

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Post by TJ Sun 03 May 2015, 10:23 pm

Clotheslining a player without the ball is not an offense in your book? Weird. He made a head high tackle on a player without t5he ball. a really nasty piece of foul play. Well deserving of the red. absolutely blatent red card. How you can state otherwise is incredible. He deserves a ban of many months. that the sort of thing that can lead to career ending if not life ending injury.

I suggests you watch it again. I bet the disciplinary committee agree with me not you

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Post by lostinwales Sun 03 May 2015, 10:32 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Irrespective of the illegality of the running line, Meakes was still round the neck and deserved red. Looked a lot worse on slo-mo than it really was. Will probably get a couple of weeks ban after good behaviour and pleading guilty added in.

Moriarty was brainless and should also have seen red. Mind brainless hot headedness does run in his family. If cited and the act, rather than the consequence, is penalise - then he could well miss the rest o fteh season.

Didn't he get a red whilst playing for the U20's? Not a good reputation at all

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Post by LondonTiger Sun 03 May 2015, 10:34 pm

TJ wrote:Edinburgh showed a lack of creativity, belief and guts but had a chance to win.  Gloucester closed the game out very well and for that if for no other reason deserved to win.

No mention of the skill shown by Gloucester in the first half? The only reason you can find for saying they deserved to win was they managed to hold out at the end.

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Post by LondonTiger Sun 03 May 2015, 10:35 pm

lostinwales wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Irrespective of the illegality of the running line, Meakes was still round the neck and deserved red. Looked a lot worse on slo-mo than it really was. Will probably get a couple of weeks ban after good behaviour and pleading guilty added in.

Moriarty was brainless and should also have seen red. Mind brainless hot headedness does run in his family. If cited and the act, rather than the consequence, is penalise - then he could well miss the rest o fteh season.

Didn't he get a red whilst playing for the U20's?  Not a good reputation at all

Moriarty - yeah got a 7 week ban for a tip tackle in the 2013 6Ns.

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Post by RDW Sun 03 May 2015, 10:40 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
TJ wrote:Edinburgh showed a lack of creativity, belief and guts but had a chance to win.  Gloucester closed the game out very well and for that if for no other reason deserved to win.

No mention of the skill shown by Gloucester in the first half? The only reason you can find for saying they deserved to win was they managed to hold out at the end.

Think you're jumping to conclusions here LT - 'if for no other reason' means that in itself it was enough to make them deserve the win, it doesn't mean that is the only reason they deserve the win!

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Post by lostinwales Sun 03 May 2015, 10:40 pm

Just watching the red (around 1.14.00 on youtube) you can't argue with the card. It did look instinctive and had he ran into the guy instead of take his head off it should have been a penalty the other way. There is blocking and there is blocking, and that was pretty blatent, but it didn't deserve what he got.

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Post by RDW Sun 03 May 2015, 10:45 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
TJ wrote:Edinburgh showed a lack of creativity, belief and guts but had a chance to win.  Gloucester closed the game out very well and for that if for no other reason deserved to win.

No mention of the skill shown by Gloucester in the first half? The only reason you can find for saying they deserved to win was they managed to hold out at the end.

Think you're jumping to conclusions here LT - 'if for no other reason' means that in itself it was enough to make them deserve the win, it doesn't mean that is the only reason they deserve the win!

To add to that, I'd say Gloucester dominated everything other than the set piece! They certainly deserved the win.

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Post by LondonTiger Sun 03 May 2015, 10:47 pm

Agreed, idiotic to argue it was not a red card offence - in my opinion of course.

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Post by HongKongCherry Mon 04 May 2015, 7:59 am

I'm an idiot so will argue! Wink If you look at Meakes eyes he is focusing on the player with the ball and for me what he is trying to do is just get the blocker out of the way. It was incredibly poorly executed so by the letter of the law was red but I do think some are overreacting somewhat as if it were a scene from a wrestling match!

More to the point having watched the game again I do think Mr Garces made some very strange penalty calls at the scrum. The attacking 5m scrum when Edinburgh were down to 14 was an example; Dickinson clearly drops his shoulders below his hips bringing the scrum down. There were several other examples of that. To counter it he made a similarly bad call in the 2nd half when Edinburgh had the numerical advantage and gave a penalty against them when clearly Afoa had brought it down.
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Post by LondonTiger Mon 04 May 2015, 8:57 am

You are not arguing against r=the red card HKC, merely the severity of the incident. As I have stated that I reckon any ban will be 2 to 3 weeks we are probably on the same page, which is very different from the poster demanding a band measuring multiple months.

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