ERCC Bosses Fear half Empty Stadium

Stolen from another sight:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/apr/20/european-champions-cup-empty-twickenham-final


Not good at all if there are only 40,000 fans. Especially if only 8,000 are fans of those clubs.

"Organisers fear there may be 40,000 empty seats when Clermont Auvergne and Toulon contest the European Champions Cup final at Twickenham on Saturday week. The 82,000-capacity stadium is set to be half empty for the first final since the old Heineken Cup was mothballed last year.

Despite the presence of two French clubs, it is understood no more than 8,000 supporters are planning to travel to London for the final. The defending champions, Toulon, have already returned 40% of their ticket allocation and Clermont have been allocated only 5,000 tickets. To date barely 30,000 tickets have been sold for the showpiece fixture."

Inevitable with two French teams in final and not being played in France.

Think French are going to bid for staging next year's so that should be that problem solved.

What's interesting is the part in the article that said in contract Leinster v Ulster at Twickenham three years ago was a sell-out. It really isn't clear why the massive disparity should be. Is it really so much easier to get from Belfast and Dublin to London than from the French riveira?

Or am I missing something? Without Toulon being Toulon, why wouldn't Londoners go? It will be like attending a Ba-bas fixture.

Not to worry, with the great tv deal, no need for paying punters.

George Carlin wrote:What's interesting is the part in the article that said in contract Leinster v Ulster at Twickenham three years ago was a sell-out. It really isn't clear why the massive disparity should be. Is it really so much easier to get from Belfast and Dublin to London than from the French riveira?

French fans don't tend to travel in very great numbers (even for a final it seems). They have fantastic home support, but not so much on the road. Perhaps it's a core of fanatical supporters but not so much in the way of bandwagoners?

Speaking of that all-Irish final, let's hope this one is much closer and a bit of a contest!

Pot Hale wrote:Inevitable with two French teams in final and not being played in France.

Think French are going to bid for staging next year's so that should be that problem solved.

Sellout in Aviva, Dublin for Toulon v Clermont two years ago (50,148).

Sin é wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Inevitable with two French teams in final and not being played in France.

Think French are going to bid for staging next year's so that should be that problem solved.

Sellout in Aviva, Dublin for Toulon v Clermont two years ago (50,148).

It does help when you've got a tiny, half-built national stadium

Maybe they should have kept to San Siro in Milan as would have been the case if they'd continued with HC.

Cyril wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Inevitable with two French teams in final and not being played in France.

Think French are going to bid for staging next year's so that should be that problem solved.

Sellout in Aviva, Dublin for Toulon v Clermont two years ago (50,148).

It does help when you've got a tiny, half-built national stadium

Its not our National Stadium. (Our other 82K stadium in Dublin is also half built )

TG wrote:Maybe they should have kept to San Siro in Milan as would have been the case if they'd continued with HC.

New venue would have had a novelty value at least. Fair play to them anyway, the PRL & LNR have taken the RFU to the cleaners

Sin é wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Inevitable with two French teams in final and not being played in France.

Think French are going to bid for staging next year's so that should be that problem solved.

Sellout in Aviva, Dublin for Toulon v Clermont two years ago (50,148).

It does help when you've got a tiny, half-built national stadium

Its not our National Stadium. (Our other 82K stadium in Dublin is also half built  )

Heh, I was only joshing with you. Hope they both get finished one day  Shame they can't all be played at Croke.

TG wrote:Maybe they should have kept to San Siro in Milan as would have been the case if they'd continued with HC.

This.

Would more French fans have travelled to the San Siro?

Cyril wrote:Would more French fans have travelled to the San Siro?

Certainly Toulons fans, it's not very far for them.

Cyril wrote:Would more French fans have travelled to the San Siro?

The thought of filling the now mostly half-empty (Milan/Inter) football citadel with the new game in town would have got people going ... and probably would have attracted more Italian rugby followers too.

VinceWLB wrote:

Cyril wrote:Would more French fans have travelled to the San Siro?

Certainly Toulons fans, it's not very far for them.

Yeah, but in terms of travel, a flight in Europe makes little difference. You're going to have to stay overnight regardless.

If we're talking about growing the game in Italy, give them the World Cup in 2023. They were close to being awarded 2015.

To hell with French fans.  If they don't want to travel in Europe then they all should be banned em........ out of Europe.  

No more French sides should be allowed into the RCC unless their fans are prepared to travel to other destinations bar their own bloody back yard!  OR.............. Boudjellal should be forced to pay for their allegiance to his pet club and pay for their airfares.  

Meritocracy of fandom is what we're looking for here.  The French are making a mockery of the market place.

George Carlin wrote:What's interesting is the part in the article that said in contract Leinster v Ulster at Twickenham three years ago was a sell-out. It really isn't clear why the massive disparity should be. Is it really so much easier to get from Belfast and Dublin to London than from the French riveira?

Or am I missing something? Without Toulon being Toulon, why wouldn't Londoners go? It will be like attending a Ba-bas fixture.

Baa-baas games aren't all that well attended either though? And cheaper to boot. Rarely see a sold out Barbarians game at Twickenham.

I think Irish fans travel a lot better than the French, and there was much more time between the quarters, semis and final to plan trips. The compressed timeframe means you're even more reliant on neutrals to fill out the venue. I was at that last final in Twickenham and whilst I spotted many fans wearing English, French and Italian club colours the vast majority of the crowd seemed to be fans of the two competing sides. I'm sure if you were to play the 2012 final again with this compressed format it would be a much harder sell. Just two weeks to book flights, hotels and match tickets to London, which is of course a very expensive city to visit already

Cyril wrote:Would more French fans have travelled to the San Siro?

Maybe not, but it does make a mockery of the decision to move it on the basis that it was a 'guaranteed success' for the competitions first year!

Notch wrote:

Cyril wrote:Would more French fans have travelled to the San Siro?

Maybe not, but it does make a mockery of the decision to move it on the basis that it was a 'guaranteed success' for the competitions first year!

Maybe the sides with the 'better' fans should have tried harder?

Cyril wrote:

Notch wrote:

Cyril wrote:Would more French fans have travelled to the San Siro?

Maybe not, but it does make a mockery of the decision to move it on the basis that it was a 'guaranteed success' for the competitions first year!

Maybe the sides with the 'better' fans should have tried harder?

Maybe they should just have been allowed a wink, wink nod nod win?  

After all biz is biz and the accountants have to be kept happy.  You can't have any old sides winning the Premium contests.  It's gotta be the sides that bring value to the product!

Toulon and Clermont are bad for business growth forecasts on the pie-charts I saw, and should never have been allowed win.

8000 traveling fans? Should have held the final at Rodney Parade - would have filled the stadium then!

I'd say a lot of the Irish fans that usually go to the finals every year decided not to this year because of the way the whole ordeal went down. Also this competiton just doesn't feel the same as it used and I don't quiet know why.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I'd say a lot of the Irish fans that usually go to the finals every year decided not to this year because of the way the whole ordeal went down. Also this competiton just doesn't feel the same as it used and I don't quiet know why.

I think we should all have a quiet moment and reflect on how rugby has disappointed the Irish fans. For shame.

Quiet right Cyril.

SecretFly wrote:Quiet right Cyril.

Quiet, Fly. We're being reverential

It seems the merit payments are down as well. Leinster earned 150K less than Munster did last season for making the semi final.

IRFU only earned 300K for making the semi final. Munster earned 450K. It seems as well that the reason they are moving the finals to the south of france next year is because Stade de France will not be ready. Not sure the French are any use at organising anything.

Sin é wrote:It seems the merit payments are down as well. Leinster earned 150K less than Munster did last season for making the semi final.

IRFU only earned 300K for making the semi final. Munster earned 450K. It seems as well that the reason they are moving the finals to the south of france next year is because Stade de France will not be ready. Not sure the French are any use at organising anything.

Dear oh dear, something tells me the Irish provinces and fans are going to fall out of love with the new Irksome Cup.

What are the odds on no Pro12 sides being in the quarter-finals in 2017?

Clermonts ground holds 18k, Toulons 15k. How many people did they think would come to London with two weeks notice?

There are no direct flights from either local airport to London. Even Marseille has just a few direct flights a day and nowhere near enough to move thousands of people. Two weeks isn't enough time to book time off work and arrange travel and probably not long enough for airlines to put on extra flights. A mate of mine lives between Marseille and Toulon and was quoted 460 euro one way to connect through Paris!

Very poor planning.

SecretFly wrote:To hell with French fans.  If they don't want to travel in Europe then they all should be banned em........ out of Europe.  

No more French sides should be allowed into the RCC unless their fans are prepared to travel to other destinations bar their own bloody back yard!  OR.............. Boudjellal should be forced to pay for their allegiance to his pet club and pay for their airfares.  

Meritocracy of fandom is what we're looking for here.  The French are making a mockery of the market place.

So in nearly one year since we know it would be in London, they just sold 30 000 tickets and of course it's because of these bloody french who don't want to be rip off to see a rugby game? Maybe you should look at why so few english people seems to care about rugby if it's not the national team.

Finally: ban us! We don't care, we don't need the Champions Cup to survive. In fact we could at least develop more our top 14 and have 16 or 18 teams.

SecretFly wrote:

Maybe they should just have been allowed a wink, wink nod nod win?  

After all biz is biz and the accountants have to be kept happy.  You can't have any old sides winning the Premium contests.  It's gotta be the sides that bring value to the product!

Toulon and Clermont are bad for business growth forecasts on the pie-charts I saw, and should never have been allowed win.

If the other side can't beat old sides, I don't see what value they bring to the products.
Because you often criticize the french, but where are the italians, the scottish, the welsh or even the english. They don't travel too much too, and sometimes they even have empty stadium at home. Only the Irish seems to travel more, and when I say Irish, I should say Munster.

shuren34 wrote: Maybe you should look at why so few english people seems to care about rugby if it's not the national team.

Perhaps I imagined the four occasions in the last 12 months when we had club fixtures pulling in 80k+ attendances?


I may, or may not attend. After my last trip to Murrayfield (Toulouse v Stade Francais) I made two vows:

1) I would never, ever watch a game in that stadium again (hence why I gave my 2009 final ticket away)
2) Having been to most of the previous finals, I would always wait to see who the finalists were.

As a neutral it helps if the participating teams are likely to provide an entertaining match or bring some entertaining fans. Munster/Biarritz at MS was a game I enjoyed as despite being overwhelmed by numbers, the BO fans still sang their hearts out.

shuren34 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Maybe they should just have been allowed a wink, wink nod nod win?  

After all biz is biz and the accountants have to be kept happy.  You can't have any old sides winning the Premium contests.  It's gotta be the sides that bring value to the product!

Toulon and Clermont are bad for business growth forecasts on the pie-charts I saw, and should never have been allowed win.

If the other side can't beat old sides, I don't see what value they bring to the products.
Because you often criticize the french, but where are the italians, the scottish, the welsh or even the english. They don't travel too much too, and sometimes they even have empty stadium at home. Only the Irish seems to travel more, and when I say Irish, I should say Munster.

I think sarcasm might be lost in translation here.

There's always the Stoop across the road, they could just about fill that

I think we all have our reasons for not traveling and to be honest I resent the sort of comment that you aren't a real fan unless you travel.

I would love nothing more than to travel to the Stoop to watch Edinburgh take on Glaws, but my Mrs who isn't a rugby fan would be in a major strop if I payed out upwards of 300 quid for travel, a ticket, accommodation and booze with a baby on the way.

It was different when I was younger but I find as time is catching up with me it's harder to get to the away games.

Would it be any different if it wasn't a world cup year and fans might have to choose between one and the other? Go to London in May and watch the European Cup, or wait until Sept/ Oct to see a World Cup game or games involving their own teams.

Most people probably can't do it all.

shuren34 wrote:

Finally: ban us! We don't care, we don't need the Champions Cup to survive. In fact we could at least develop more our top 14 and have 16 or 18 teams.

You certainly could, Shuren!!! And maybe use three more French players to do it Ban the French I say for being bad channel crossers on ferries. You can't have sea-sick prone people in European Rugby Competitions!!! It's unsavoury. It's counter-market values!

shuren34 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Maybe they should just have been allowed a wink, wink nod nod win?  

After all biz is biz and the accountants have to be kept happy.  You can't have any old sides winning the Premium contests.  It's gotta be the sides that bring value to the product!

Toulon and Clermont are bad for business growth forecasts on the pie-charts I saw, and should never have been allowed win.

If the other side can't beat old sides, I don't see what value they bring to the products.
Because you often criticize the french, but where are the italians, the scottish, the welsh or even the english. They don't travel too much too, and sometimes they even have empty stadium at home. Only the Irish seems to travel more, and when I say Irish, I should say Munster.

The reason you think Munster travel a lot is because Because Munster fans have had to travel to France for an awful lot of semi finals (every French club-Munster semi final - 7 to be exact - have been in France). Munster generally have to gravel for some reason  - even the home ones against Leinster were in Dublin.

Another thing, Biarritz wouldn't have reached half the knock-out stages of the Cup without the assistance of nearly always having an Italian club in their group - so be grateful for that.

LondonTiger wrote:

shuren34 wrote: Maybe you should look at why so few english people seems to care about rugby if it's not the national team.  

Perhaps I imagined the four occasions in the last 12 months when we had club fixtures pulling in 80k+ attendances?


I may, or may not attend. After my last trip to Murrayfield (Toulouse v Stade Francais) I made two vows:

1) I would never, ever watch a game in that stadium again (hence why I gave my 2009 final ticket away)
2) Having been to most of the previous finals, I would always wait to see who the finalists were.

As a neutral it helps if the participating teams are likely to provide an entertaining match or bring some entertaining fans. Munster/Biarritz at MS was a game I enjoyed as despite being overwhelmed by numbers, the BO fans still sang their hearts out.

Why do you hate Murrayfield? I know it's a bit far out of town but it's still one of the best away days in the 6N.

Sin é wrote: Munster generally have to gravel for some reason  - even the home ones against Leinster were in Dublin.



Another thing, Biarritz wouldn't have reached half the knock-out stages of the Cup without the assistance of nearly always having an Italian club in their group - so be grateful for that.

Only in Ireland Munster play their Home games Away.  Leinster play their Away games at Home.

Plus...Munster fellas have strong stomachs for crossing all kinds of borders by trains, planes, automobiles and boats.  It's the famine that wot did it.

the-goon wrote:
Why do you hate Murrayfield? I know it's a bit far out of town but it's still one of the best away days in the 6N.

Bad experience. The game was shockingly bad with no atmosphere, probably unfair to blame the stadium for that as there were very few partisan fans. However the stadium was tired and falling apart, holes in walls and carpets with loos that were truly prehistoric.

Like Edinburgh, hated the walk out to the stadium and back again. Nothing was open - whoever decided to shut the pubs should have been shot, it was just tedious.

Now if I could move the MS to a similarly central position in Embra - well then it would be perfect.

Sin é wrote:

shuren34 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Maybe they should just have been allowed a wink, wink nod nod win?  

After all biz is biz and the accountants have to be kept happy.  You can't have any old sides winning the Premium contests.  It's gotta be the sides that bring value to the product!

Toulon and Clermont are bad for business growth forecasts on the pie-charts I saw, and should never have been allowed win.

If the other side can't beat old sides, I don't see what value they bring to the products.
Because you often criticize the french, but where are the italians, the scottish, the welsh or even the english. They don't travel too much too, and sometimes they even have empty stadium at home. Only the Irish seems to travel more, and when I say Irish, I should say Munster.

The reason you think Munster travel a lot is because Because Munster fans have had to travel to France for an awful lot of semi finals (every French club-Munster semi final - 7 to be exact - have been in France). Munster generally have to gravel for some reason  - even the home ones against Leinster were in Dublin.

Another thing, Biarritz wouldn't have reached half the knock-out stages of the Cup without the assistance of nearly always having an Italian club in their group - so be grateful for that.

Why should I be grateful for that? Biarritz is not my club, and I even dislike them. By the way we already know that in France, and used to criticize the advantage they had in H-Cup with the Italian team and in Top 14 with referees. Finally be happy Biarritz allways had them, because Munster won its first cup again them. The Sirili Bobo's defence this day was one of the three most memorable moment of the Cup.

Sin é wrote: Munster generally have to gravel for some reason  - even the home ones against Leinster were in Dublin.

Small typo there Sin - just not sure if you missed out a T or an O

SecretFly wrote:

shuren34 wrote:

Finally: ban us! We don't care, we don't need the Champions Cup to survive. In fact we could at least develop more our top 14 and have 16 or 18 teams.

You certainly could, Shuren!!!  And maybe use three more French players to do it  Ban the French I say for being bad channel crossers on ferries.  You can't have sea-sick prone people in European Rugby Competitions!!!  It's unsavoury.  It's counter-market values!

Like I said ban us! I would be the happiest man on earth. Unfortunately each time our clubs want to walk out, your Unions go crying to our Union, and ask it to stop us because your professional rugby would be in danger. We could survive and prosper without you. Finally if that happens, in less than two years you would beg to the english clubs to create a british league.

The walk to and from Murrayfield is one of the best things about the stadium. As you get closer you're surrounded by fans, loads of colour and atmosphere, people in kilts with bag pipes etc.

shuren34 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

shuren34 wrote:

Finally: ban us! We don't care, we don't need the Champions Cup to survive. In fact we could at least develop more our top 14 and have 16 or 18 teams.

You certainly could, Shuren!!!  And maybe use three more French players to do it  Ban the French I say for being bad channel crossers on ferries.  You can't have sea-sick prone people in European Rugby Competitions!!!  It's unsavoury.  It's counter-market values!

Like I said ban us! I would be the happiest man on earth. Unfortunately each time our clubs want to walk out, your Unions go crying to our Union, and ask it to stop us because your professional rugby would be in danger. We could survive and prosper without you. Finally if that happens, in less than two years you would beg to the english clubs to create a british league.

Hang on a second here ... the chairman of the ERC was a Frenchman (Lux). Your clubs were actually shareholders in the ERC (unlike the English or Welsh clubs). Blanco (President of Biarritz) is and was a big fan and don't tell me that Toulouse were and still are big fans of European competition.

The clubs used the Heineken Cup as a bargaining tool in 2007. The French clubs have now effective control of the competition (moving it to Switzerland) with the ex-Clermont CEO running the new organisation there.

The really good thing about this now is that since the PRO12 deal has secured a guaranteed income of 20m per annum for the next 5 years that the English and French clubs will be out of pocket for their new competition.

Notch wrote:The walk to and from Murrayfield is one of the best things about the stadium. As you get closer you're surrounded by fans, loads of colour and atmosphere, people in kilts with bag pipes etc.

Notch wrote:The walk to and from Murrayfield is one of the best things about the stadium. As you get closer you're surrounded by fans, loads of colour and atmosphere, people in kilts with bag pipes etc.

Not when it is two French teams playing. With very few partisan fans it was a very colourless walk.

shuren34 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

shuren34 wrote:

Finally: ban us! We don't care, we don't need the Champions Cup to survive. In fact we could at least develop more our top 14 and have 16 or 18 teams.

You certainly could, Shuren!!!  And maybe use three more French players to do it  Ban the French I say for being bad channel crossers on ferries.  You can't have sea-sick prone people in European Rugby Competitions!!!  It's unsavoury.  It's counter-market values!

Like I said ban us! I would be the happiest man on earth. Unfortunately each time our clubs want to walk out, your Unions go crying to our Union, and ask it to stop us because your professional rugby would be in danger. We could survive and prosper without you. Finally if that happens, in less than two years you would beg to the english clubs to create a british league.

It's your Union that's struggling under the burden of your own League, shuren.

I think it's maybe them that asked us to keep the pressure on. "Please don't leave us alone on our own with these guys!!! They'll devour us with fava beans and a nice chianti"

shuren34 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

shuren34 wrote:

Finally: ban us! We don't care, we don't need the Champions Cup to survive. In fact we could at least develop more our top 14 and have 16 or 18 teams.

You certainly could, Shuren!!!  And maybe use three more French players to do it  Ban the French I say for being bad channel crossers on ferries.  You can't have sea-sick prone people in European Rugby Competitions!!!  It's unsavoury.  It's counter-market values!

Like I said ban us! I would be the happiest man on earth. Unfortunately each time our clubs want to walk out, your Unions go crying to our Union, and ask it to stop us because your professional rugby would be in danger. We could survive and prosper without you. Finally if that happens, in less than two years you would beg to the english clubs to create a british league.

Why would the IRFU beg for a British league? Unless you meant a Britsh and Irish league?