Pacquiao, how does he fare vs the rest of the welterweights

Think that we are all agreed that Mayweather won the fight pretty clearly, clearly enough to suggest that a rematch is pointless. Why Mayweather was very good it's hard not to be a little disappointed at Pacquiaos effort, or lack of, and his passive attacks. Yes mayweather nullified him brilliantly but Pacquiao never tried to force the issue and was very one paced.

While Mayweather will have his 1 more fight in September it'll be interesting to see where Pacquiao goes from here as he still has plenty to offer, was wondering how much though and how he'd fare against the current crop of fighters at or around 147

Khan. Think stylistically this fight comes down to how hard pacquiao punches. Hard to see how hard he punches when he could't land a clean shot vs floyd but if he carries pop still he should beat khan. Got to say after last night I fancy khan a lot more, think khans engine could really trouble Manny. Manny KO

Brook. Another hard fight, brook hasn't dealt with anything like pacquiao and think pacquiaos flurries would really bother Brook. That said manny looked tiny last night and not as mobile, if Brook can settle into a rhythm he could be too big for manny. Manny decision

Thurman. I think Thurman beats Pacquiao. Thurman isn't perfect but he's a very well rounded fighter. Can box and bang, is a big strong welterweight and think he's too strong for Manny. Thurman KO

Bradley. Pacquiao decision but closer than the rematch, can't see bradley trying to blast him out like he tried last time which contributed to him gassing

Maidana. Think this is the most likely fight to be made, think it'll be explosive and anyone can win. Think Pacquiao will like maidana being the aggressor and think he will bust him up over the rounds. Maidana is tough as old boots even if he does go down can see him rising up to last the rounds. Manny decision

JMM. You know this will happen dont you. JMM is coming off a long knee injury and he was losing the 4th bout before manny got stupid, think manny beats him (fairly) comfortably with his speed and wont be as gung ho when he doesn't need to. Manny decision

How do you guys think he fares or should he just retire now. I think him vs crawford could be a really fun fight and had to call imo

Agree with pretty much all apart from Thurman. I actually put Manny KO on that one. Very easy to be hit and Pacquiao would connect alarmingly.

Not sure what he does next, Maidana is Taylor made for him, would make him look on top again potentially get a late stoppage similar to when he fought Cotto.

Manny is still miles ahead of the rest of them, he beats them all, even JMM who he was beating up until he got careless.

Floyd is just better than Manny, no shame in that, he is something special, still think the style he employed yesterday stunk out the place, first round he looked amazing, had he kept that up I would not be complaining, but running and holding is what other boxers get crucified for.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Agree with pretty much all apart from Thurman. I actually put Manny KO on that one. Very easy to be hit and Pacquiao would connect alarmingly.

Not sure what he does next, Maidana is Taylor made for him, would make him look on top again potentially get a late stoppage similar to when he fought Cotto.

I have to disagree

Thurman isnt a defensive fighter but he is no rios, he doesnt get tagged much unless hes confident he can take there power and goes to war. Pacquiao cant fight 3 minutes a round anymore. Thurman is an active guy and is very fresh, if he can catch pacquiao with the types of shots he landed against guerrero then he will slow down manny

Thibk he weighed over 160 lbs against guerrero, cant see pacquiao winning if they go to war, and he hasnt shown game changing power since cotto, 6 years ago

Thurman is the best welterweight except floyd imo

Agree on Maidana though

BoxingFan88 wrote:Manny is still miles ahead of the rest of them, he beats them all, even JMM who he was beating up until he got careless.

Floyd is just better than Manny, no shame in that, he is something special, still think the style he employed yesterday stunk out the place, first round he looked amazing, had he kept that up I would not be complaining, but running and holding is what other boxers get crucified for.

I think my reasoning is based on whether this Pacquiao can fight and beat not only a fop fighter but a natural welterweight.

Look at his past opponents, Algieri (LWW), Rios (LWW), Bradley (LWW) and JMM (LW) none of them are welterweights (maybe bradley). Couldnt help but see how small manny looked against floyd last night who he himself isnt a particularly big welter.

Pacquiaos legs have slowed he gets hit more and these welters can bang, think that may be the edge

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:

BoxingFan88 wrote:Manny is still miles ahead of the rest of them, he beats them all, even JMM who he was beating up until he got careless.

Floyd is just better than Manny, no shame in that, he is something special, still think the style he employed yesterday stunk out the place, first round he looked amazing, had he kept that up I would not be complaining, but running and holding is what other boxers get crucified for.

I think my reasoning is based on whether this Pacquiao can fight and beat not only a fop fighter but a natural welterweight.

Look at his past opponents, Algieri (LWW), Rios (LWW), Bradley (LWW) and JMM (LW) none of them are welterweights (maybe bradley). Couldnt help but see how small manny looked against floyd last night who he himself isnt a particularly big welter.

Pacquiaos legs have slowed he gets hit more and these welters can bang, think that may be the edge

Possibly, but I still think he looks fresh, he couldn't catch mayweather last night (literally), but anyone who decides to give it a go with Manny takes a pasting. He gave Algeri a whooping, and Algeri was backing up and trying not to get hit. Thurman would have a punchers chance, but he hasn't been in with anyone anywhere close to Pacquiao

Thurman is massively over rated, the biggest threats to the big two are the British pair; Brook has the timing and accuracy whilst Khan has the speed and volume. It's probably unfashionable to rate two British boxers highly on a British forum but they both have grade A attributes which Thurman does not now his power seems lesser than we initially thought.

Rios, Algieri and Bradley are not small Welterweights by any stretch of the imagination.

I think thurmans ability is somewhat underated but yes his power may be overated, but he definately has heavy hands

Thurman isnt spectacular but hes got quick hands, good reflexes, footwork, punch variety and is a pretty decent counter puncher.

They arent small welters, but they arent welters. None of the 3 have power at 147, rios wears you down, bradley is a bit feather fisted and so is algieri

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Thurman is massively over rated, the biggest threats to the big two are the British pair; Brook has the timing and accuracy whilst Khan has the speed and volume. It's probably unfashionable to rate two British boxers highly on a British forum but they both have grade A attributes which Thurman does not now his power seems lesser than we initially thought.

Rios, Algieri and Bradley are not small Welterweights by any stretch of the imagination.

Khan has no chin, when he gets backed up he puts his ear mitts on, but still gets whacked with shots, he can't really punch and doesn't know how to tie people up, I think its a very very easy night for Manny who will probably bounce him off the canvas and when Khan gets hurt, he will go to war and get knocked out

Don't agree with the Khan can't take a punch, if you watch the Maidana fight he took numerous big shots and came through it, he also took a lot of clean shots from Garcia before the fight was stopped. Not saying he has a granite chin, but do tend to think people are begrudged to change their opinion when it comes to Khan.

I don't really get this idea that all of a sudden the bubble with Thurman has burst simply because he hasn't stopped his last two opponents. On what basis is Brook meant to be a threat to Floyd or Manny but Thurman definitely can't be?

Yeah, he didn't knock out Bundu or Guerrero. So he did the next best thing and pitched a shutout against them, dropping both of them along the way. Hardly grounds to suggest he's been found out considering that neither Bundu or Guerrero have been stopped and shows that he's not left up the creak without a paddle if his power doesn't yield a knockout, ala someone like Randall Bailey. He's shown different attributes to Brook but that doesn't mean he has less of them. Both guys are a bit short on top names to be putting either of them emphatically in front of the other in my opinion and both still need to prove that they can shine against a wider array of styles and class of opponent who don't suit their strengths.

I think Brook and Thurman are too slow to beat Manny. Also Khan is not good enough under pressure.Maidana could end up similar to Margarito.

Id back Marquez to beat him again. Also think Bradley could pull it off again on the right night.

PaulHv2 wrote:Don't agree with the Khan can't take a punch, if you watch the Maidana fight he took numerous big shots and came through it, he also took a lot of clean shots from Garcia before the fight was stopped. Not saying he has a granite chin, but do tend to think people are begrudged to change their opinion when it comes to Khan.

But if he fights Pacquiao he is going to get nailed consistently, remember Diaz dropped him heavily a few fights ago and he doesn't hit as hard as Pacquiao

Lance wrote:I think Brook and Thurman are too slow to beat Manny. Also Khan is not good enough under pressure.Maidana could end up similar to Margarito.

Id back Marquez to beat him again. Also think Bradley could pull it off again on the right night.

I'm a huge Marquez fan, but I don't think Marquez could beat him this time, if Manny is a bit more educated he will stop Marquez this time, Marquez needs to retire has nothing left to prove and is coming off a really bad injury.

Bradley didn't beat Pacquiao either time, regardless of what the scores said.

You said he had no chin though BF, I'm making a point that based on some of the big hitters he's faced that really isn't correct. Khans biggest problem is that he doesn't know what to do when hurt and he engages.

Brook has far superior timing to Thurman that's why he could be a slight threat, you need a great attribute rather than being good across the board.

Pacquiao has a lot alot of his fizz and explosiveness. You expect Mayweathers style to reduce an opponents punch output by a significant percentage but I thought Pacquaio looked low on energy towards the end and on the occasions he did pin Mayweather he seemed to reluctant to burn up too much energy going for it.

I havent seen a lot of Thurman although he impressed me in the last fight against Guerrero (not being Mayweather though Im not sure we can classify it as a "masterclass"). I would give him a shot now.

Brook unlikely to win on the basis of the Porter fight for me and Khan still too easy to hit and hurt.

Thurmans great attrivute is his power. Not great like hearns great but he carries genuine power in both hands and can turn out any welterweights (maybe no provodnikov mind you) lights out in a instant

Look at mannys resume and try find a bigger puncher. Rios, hatton and Margarito are attrition punchers, mosely and DLH werent too fargone, algieri and Bradley havent shown pwoer at 140 let alone 147. JMM may have bulked but would stil lwager thurman hits harder. The only person who has comparable power os miguel cotto who power shot is body shots typically

Its amusing how Khan gets written off for having no chin.....The Garcia shot puts anyone on his back....

Tommy Hearns supposedly had no chin and like Khan did ok....

As for Brook he has the tools but there is something Michael Watson-esque about him..

I think he'll underachieve....

People are expecting too much of Thurman..

Or Bundu or Guerrero or Zaveck. Three good chins but do show that you are over rating his power a fair bit,

Manny should just retire. Was basically fighting for #1 of his generation. He lost. #2 Gebrationally, P4p 30ish all Time in a sport with a particularly long history. If the tax troubles are still hounding him seriously, they should really be sorted after this fight, with enough pocket change for a comfortable life.

If he does go on, though, he should try punch Khan around. I have no clue if he can actually do it. But I'd like to see it.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Or Bundu or Guerrero or Zaveck. Three good chins but do show that you are over rating his power a fair bit,

So there are no fighters with great power then? Do tell me if you know one with 100% ko ratio

Has guerrero, zaveck or bundu shown chin problems in the past. Pretty sure thurman is the only guy to deck guerrero (especially at welter) and bundu and zaveck are both cagey with good wiskers

I have Manny Top 20...

Wonderful record..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Its amusing how Khan gets written off for having no chin.....The Garcia shot puts anyone on his back....

Tommy Hearns supposedly had no chin and like Khan did ok....

As for Brook he has the tools but there is something Michael Watson-esque about him..

I think he'll underachieve....

People are expecting too much of Thurman..

What about the shot Diaz landed?

Khans chin is dodgy. When he gets hit, he gets hurt and he gets ragged and loses his composure. He has been on the floor against all level of opponents. Very difficult to see him getting through a full fight with Pacquiao without getting nailed and hurt at some point.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Or Bundu or Guerrero or Zaveck. Three good chins but do show that you are over rating his power a fair bit,

So there are no fighters with great power then? Do tell me if you know one with 100% ko ratio

Has guerrero, zaveck or bundu shown chin problems in the past. Pretty sure thurman is the only guy to deck guerrero (especially at welter) and bundu and zaveck are both cagey with good wiskers

Very few boxers have great power; Donaire did, GGG, Kovalev, Matthysse and Stevenson do who have all taken out top level tough opposition.

It's very difficult to make out he can stop anyone with one punch when the three best guys he faced have gone the distance with him, power punchers tend to get found out a lot sooner than anybody else.

I don't know how Khan and Hearns managed to get the quality records they have..

They did it in spite of having dodgy chins.....

Not hard to figure it out.

I'm directing my comments to Boxingfan..

I'm not interested in a spiteful, clueless idiot like you..

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Or Bundu or Guerrero or Zaveck. Three good chins but do show that you are over rating his power a fair bit,

So there are no fighters with great power then? Do tell me if you know one with 100% ko ratio

Has guerrero, zaveck or bundu shown chin problems in the past. Pretty sure thurman is the only guy to deck guerrero (especially at welter) and bundu and zaveck are both cagey with good wiskers

Very few boxers have great power; Donaire did, GGG, Kovalev, Matthysse and Stevenson do who have all taken out top level tough opposition.

It's very difficult to make out he can stop anyone with one punch when the three best guys he faced have gone the distance with him, power punchers tend to get found out a lot sooner than anybody else.

Dont think that zaveck and bundu are his best 3 opponents, but neither bundu or zaveck have ever been decked and guerrero was never in trouble against any of Berto, Floyd, Aydin or katsidis and he was stunned many times against Thurman and was down hard

What are you interested in TRUSSMAN? Re-hashing that 80s boxing mag you found in your Dads closet while searching for his porn?

Khan has guts and skill with speed. His chin is average but his defense is good except for the 4 or 5 lapses he has and those 4 5 lapses at this level are 4 5 too much. I think Khan coukd give em both a juicy argument but wouldn't back him to win just yet.

Not saying I'd pick him......But just saying no-chin...that's it like some...

I mean he's a top fighter...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not saying I'd pick him......But just saying no-chin...that's it like some...

I mean he's a top fighter...

Khan doesn't have the chin to stand up to the beating he will receive from PAcquiao, Pacquiaos style is all wrong for him,

Khan will flurry, move away, Pacquiao will follow him, pin him against the ropes and give him a beating and I don't think his chin will take it

Just because I think he loses to Pacquiao does not equate to me not thinking he is a top fighter

I think Manny should retire, from a sizeable 65 fights, he's still got a respectable record - 57-6-2. If he does stick around however, the fight I'd REALLY want for him would be against Malignaggi. That would be a fun, fan fave type fight and a chance to hopefully settle this ridiculous witch hunt/bad mouthing of Pac by Paulie. I'd love that fight for Manny's swansong should he stick around.

Marlonz wrote:I think Manny should retire, from a sizeable 65 fights, he's still got a respectable record - 57-6-2. If he does stick around however, the fight I'd REALLY want for him would be against Malignaggi. That would be a fun, fan fave type fight and a chance to hopefully settle this ridiculous witch hunt/bad mouthing of Pac by Paulie. I'd love that fight for Manny's swansong should he stick around.

Pacquiao would obliterate him, probably put him in the hospital, I have no idea why Paulie has something against Manny, but Manny beating him senseless isn't really the way to go about anything.

Kell Brook went life and death with Carson Jones. If that's the standard of fighter that beats Manny now then its time to retire

BoxingFan88 wrote:

Marlonz wrote:I think Manny should retire, from a sizeable 65 fights, he's still got a respectable record - 57-6-2. If he does stick around however, the fight I'd REALLY want for him would be against Malignaggi. That would be a fun, fan fave type fight and a chance to hopefully settle this ridiculous witch hunt/bad mouthing of Pac by Paulie. I'd love that fight for Manny's swansong should he stick around.

Pacquiao would obliterate him, probably put him in the hospital, I have no idea why Paulie has something against Manny, but Manny beating him senseless isn't really the way to go about anything.

Think of the trash talking Paulie would do though during the press conferences/fight build-up. I think people would be intrigued and I for one would love to see Paulie eat his words and a fair few left hands. Interesting he's making a comeback with the assistance of Angel Heredia, given the 5 years of PED accusations he's levelled at Manny.