Wales 6 Nations Squad

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Forwards:
Rob Evans (Scarlets), Paul James (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing 92), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Dominic Day (Bath Rugby), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Cardiff Blues), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), James King (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester Rugby), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (CAPT) (Cardiff Blues).
Backs:
Aled Davies (Scarlets) *, Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues) Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Bath Rugby), Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons), Jamie Roberts (Harlequins), Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Tom James (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Matthew Morgan (Bristol Rugby), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Owen Williams, yes. Sam Davies, no.

Why not Davies, he is developing well at the moment

Not good enough now, not probably ever - at least that's the way I see it. I don't think he's even good enough at this level, never mind an international. His flaws that were overwhelmingly evident at U20 level are still there so in reality he hasn't developed that well. Davies might become a consistent club level player one day should he be able to iron out these flaws.

I pretty much cringe half to death when fans from Ospreylia overhype some of their more average players. I read on here the other week that Davies should be back up to Biggar for Wales and almost spat my coffee out.

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Owen Williams, yes. Sam Davies, no.

Why not Davies, he is developing well at the moment

Not good enough now, not probably ever - at least that's the way I see it. I don't think he's even good enough at this level, never mind an international. His flaws that were overwhelmingly evident at U20 level are still there so in reality he hasn't developed that well. Davies might become a consistent club level player one day should he be able to iron out these flaws.

I pretty much cringe half to death when fans from Ospreylia overhype some of their more average players. I read on here the other week that Davies should be back up to Biggar for Wales and almost spat my coffee out.

What do you think his flaws are?

Tackling.. if a sub on the wing or fb. As a 10 he is up with the best

Kicking, out of hand it goes to the dead ball line too often, at goal it's been inconsistent. Tacking, his size puts him at a disadvantage, tends to not be good enough whichever position he plays. Game management, it's just not at a high enough level, and tends to only be good when Ospreys are dominating the opposition up front. I think he also lacks pace and therefore isn't a good attacker with ball in hand. In other words I think he lacks the basics for a 10 - I also think that of Priestland. Davies isn't the worst 10 in Wales though; for me that tag goes to Shingler. Both are lucky to be playing at such a high level. These truths might hurt a few but some of the reasons we lag behind other teams is having too many sub-class players at all the regions.

Have a watch of this. Most people thought this was a superb performance by Davies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbmBwe4y3rk

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:For Wales it has always been the objective to weather the storm, stay in touch and then let loose with strike runners like SW in the closing stages.

This is what annoys me about the way we play. It's a cautious, safety-first approach (especially against the best sides) where we try to live with them and hope to nick it at the end. If we had the ambition to play some rugby from the off, then we might not find ourselves having to nick it at the end, or defending a slender lead. It's like this 'earning the right to go wide' thing. F*ck that. If it's on, it's on. How many times do we make a half-break, get in behind the opposition, but in the next phase still give it to a forward on the short ball, which serves only to give the opposition time to reorganise their defensive line.

Because we gave up off load and heads up rugby and Gatland has tried to make us a conventional set piece side like England. And we dont have the pack to win in the arm wrestle stakes. Any side keeps it tight against Wales has a chance of beating us. We play a % game and it is super rare that we hammer anyone but Scots and Italians.

Mikey - Those "Truths" are your opinion mate. Many said the same about a certain Shane Williams not so long ago, Can't tackle, too small, can't read the game and they were the Pro pundits. Sam Davies is developing well and it remains to be seen if he can reach a consistent level. In my opinion he's having a good season and has shown up well against strong opposition. Its far too early to write such a talent off and naïve to even suggest it as the Shane Williams doubters discovered. As for RP, the less said the better

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Owen Williams, yes. Sam Davies, no.

Why not Davies, he is developing well at the moment

Not good enough now, not probably ever - at least that's the way I see it. I don't think he's even good enough at this level, never mind an international. His flaws that were overwhelmingly evident at U20 level are still there

He won the IRB Junior Player of the Year award when he was in the Under-20s.

RubyGuby wrote:Mikey - Those "Truths" are your opinion mate. Many said the same about a certain Shane Williams not so long ago, Can't tackle, too small, can't read the game and they were the Pro pundits. Sam Davies is developing well and it remains to be seen if he can reach a consistent level. In my opinion he's having a good season and has shown up well against strong opposition. Its far too early to write such a talent off and naïve to even suggest it as the Shane Williams doubters discovered. As for RP, the less said the better

I agree RG

Having seen him play a few seasons now the level of improvement has been huge. He has had a few howlers but most of his games are good, even impressive as with the matches this season vs Treviso, Blues and most recently the win over Clermont Auvergne. I remember another very good performance against Munster last season too.

While I agree with Mikey D that Sam Davies is not quite good enough for Wales, he is one to keep an eye on, he has time on his side. A couple of seasons as the O's number 2 fly half will give him the maturity he needs to come good. His size shouldn't matter, especially if he develops a good tackling technique, after all the biggest can go to ground if you have their ankles. All he needs is a consistent run to develop this and some good mentoring.

All the talk about Sam, Matthew, Patchell, Owen Williams etc. If I'm honest I've yet to see anything from Anscombe to suggest that he's an international player. I've seen a fair bit of him and maybe I'm missing something. This might sound a bit cruel but with 7 minutes to go against SA and us leading and attacking on their 22 he kicked the ball away instead of keeping possession and from that kick SA made ground that lead to the scrum and the try. Hardly game management. Yet I hardly see any criticism of this guy. Can someone enlighten me 'cos I've seen very very little to suggest he deserves a place above Patchell for example.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Owen Williams, yes. Sam Davies, no.

Why not Davies, he is developing well at the moment

Not good enough now, not probably ever - at least that's the way I see it. I don't think he's even good enough at this level, never mind an international. His flaws that were overwhelmingly evident at U20 level are still there

He won the IRB Junior Player of the Year award when he was in the Under-20s.  

Yeah and? I was actually waiting for this, but I didn't expect it from you. Clifford was the best player at the tournament. Rhodri Williams and Hallam Amos were better players than Davies in that U20s team. Novelty award. His flaws are still overwhelmingly evident.

maestegmafia wrote:Have a watch of this. Most people thought this was a superb performance by Davies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbmBwe4y3rk

I suppose it was. I'm already aware of this fixture btw and I knew you would bring it to my attention. It just proves my point about inconsistency when you look at his previous games, in particular the one against Munster. Seeing posters big him up for Wales duty based on this single performance of his career was quite laughable.

RubyGuby wrote:Mikey - Those "Truths" are your opinion mate. Many said the same about a certain Shane Williams not so long ago, Can't tackle, too small, can't read the game and they were the Pro pundits. Sam Davies is developing well and it remains to be seen if he can reach a consistent level. In my opinion he's having a good season and has shown up well against strong opposition. Its far too early to write such a talent off and naïve to even suggest it as the Shane Williams doubters discovered. As for RP, the less said the better

Oh dear, let's get one thing straight, he's not Shane Williams! And Shane could actually tackle. Please don't compare them mate.
Secondly, yes it is my opinion, deducted from watching him since U20s level. I couldn't believe at the time that he was supposedly the best U20s fly-half in Wales - then again that is the way I personally saw it. I just don't see how he has developed to a great extent since then given his flaws are still all there. Perhaps early to be writing him off but if they aren't great at U20 level it's likely they will not be a good pro player. I'm fully aware that people will have a different opinion than this, but if your opinion is that he should be back-up to Biggar for Wales then you're just a cyclops.

You're entitled to your opinion Mikey but that's all I'm afraid. All the other outside halves have their flaws as well but you seem to conveniently ignore them. SD has developed a little better than most of us thought. If he continues at that rate then he will be knocking on Gatland's door. As for you're remarks about Ospreylia in general, let me know if you want some mayonnaise with both your chips

Tell me the up and coming ones you fancy at 10 and why. I'll let you know if they have any flaws.

RubyGuby wrote:All the talk about Sam, Matthew, Patchell, Owen Williams etc. If I'm honest I've yet to see anything from Anscombe to suggest that he's an international player. I've seen a fair bit of him and maybe I'm missing something. This might sound a bit cruel but with 7 minutes to go against SA and us leading and attacking on their 22 he kicked the ball away instead of keeping possession and from that kick SA made ground that lead to the scrum and the try. Hardly game management. Yet I hardly see any criticism of this guy. Can someone enlighten me 'cos I've seen very very little to suggest he deserves a place above Patchell for example.

If you can't see it you should do some wider reading because I've seen plenty of fans express their concerns, but you do have a point. I don't think he's great from full-back but he's a good fly-half. We can also look at the facts; vast experience with U20s in NZ winning the comp, NPC experience, S15 experience. His fly-half basics are leagues above that of Sam Davies' skill-set. Anscombe's passing is some of the best I've ever seen, but he needs to work on his kicking from the 15 position as I've seen a couple go out on the full (not as much as Davies obviously). I think he's been decent enough for Wales and as long as he keeps Davies out of the squad I'm happy.

RubyGuby wrote:You're entitled to your opinion Mikey but that's all I'm afraid. All the other outside halves have their flaws as well but you seem to conveniently ignore them. SD has developed a little better than most of us thought. If he continues at that rate then he will be knocking on Gatland's door. As for you're remarks about Ospreylia in general, let me know if you want some mayonnaise with both your chips  

Tell me the up and coming ones you fancy at 10 and why. I'll let you know if they have any flaws.

I think Biggar is near flawless, but recognise the others have flaws. I've recently spoke about Patchell being erratic. I've been quite vocal about RP's flaws often in the past (and needlessly attacked for it). But still, the flaws of these guys doesn't make Davies a better player. As for your last comment there, grow up.

You've named most of them, but I'll mention Dorian Jones. Very good attacking player and does most of the basics well. Isn't a good defender and is currently injured. I think he's far away from international honours. If he was in an Ospreys or Scarlets jersey all their fans would be saying he should be starting for Wales... you won't get that from a Dragons fan, we're all firmly on the ground pal .

I love your passion Mikey - I've always thought of Sam D as a bit flakey and maybe a good schoolboy international and nothing else. The thing is, he's an intelligent lad with a good pedigree and it looks like he is learning. He has many flaws but most of us can see some general improvement and its early days. Anscombe for me is pretty average which isn't good enough. I haven't seen enough of Williams at Leicester to really make an informed judgement and I think the hardest done by guy there is Patchell who has performed very well in an absolute shoite side. Patchell has the skill set I like at 10, he's very powerful, great defence, excellent boot and good distribution, also good under the high ball. With class players around him I think he could be quite exceptional.

Thanks RG . That's how I've always seen Sam D, and I don't see him much better at present. Anscombe probably is bordering on average but I still rate him better than RP. You're spot on about Patchell too, he's the most promising of them all for me. He makes errors some times through trying to hard, but he often has to try hard due to his team playing crap. We might see an improvement next season when he moves to the Scarlets .

Maybe you hate the Ospreys 'cos you've ended up with Lyn the Grin!!!

I don't have a strong allegiance to any region and want all of them to develop and improve - Here's hoping - I like that young back row player you've got and I can see him and your big young centres and Amos all moving onwards and upwards to the Ospreys in time

mikey_dragon wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Owen Williams, yes. Sam Davies, no.

Why not Davies, he is developing well at the moment

Not good enough now, not probably ever - at least that's the way I see it. I don't think he's even good enough at this level, never mind an international. His flaws that were overwhelmingly evident at U20 level are still there

He won the IRB Junior Player of the Year award when he was in the Under-20s.  

Yeah and? I was actually waiting for this, but I didn't expect it from you. Clifford was the best player at the tournament. Rhodri Williams and Hallam Amos were better players than Davies in that U20s team. Novelty award. His flaws are still overwhelmingly evident.

No offence, but they can't have been overwhelmingly evident if the IRB thought he was the best player there.

He blows hot and cold and I'm not saying he's the new Dan Carter, but he wouldn't have won that award if he hadn't merited it.

RubyGuby wrote:Maybe you hate the Ospreys 'cos you've ended up with Lyn the Grin!!!

I don't have a strong allegiance to any region and want all of them to develop and improve - Here's hoping - I like that young back row player you've got and I can see him and your big young centres and Amos all moving onwards and upwards to the Ospreys in time

Probably

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Owen Williams, yes. Sam Davies, no.

Why not Davies, he is developing well at the moment

Not good enough now, not probably ever - at least that's the way I see it. I don't think he's even good enough at this level, never mind an international. His flaws that were overwhelmingly evident at U20 level are still there

He won the IRB Junior Player of the Year award when he was in the Under-20s.  

Yeah and? I was actually waiting for this, but I didn't expect it from you. Clifford was the best player at the tournament. Rhodri Williams and Hallam Amos were better players than Davies in that U20s team. Novelty award. His flaws are still overwhelmingly evident.

No offence, but they can't have been overwhelmingly evident if the IRB thought he was the best player there.

He blows hot and cold and I'm not saying he's the new Dan Carter, but he wouldn't have won that award if he hadn't merited it.

None taken. You can scratch your head as much as you like, it's no skin off my nose .

He clearly didn't merit it. It must have been a novelty through Wales playing well but losing in the final. If you can think back to that tournament do you honestly believe that Davies was better than Amos, Rhodri and Jordan Williams? So why he was on the list in the first place just says to me there wasn't much effort put in to it. I watched most of England's games too and I have to say their captain Clifford was one of if not the best player at that tournament.

I'd have said Jordan Williams was the star of the show, and Rhodri Williams was class in that tournament too.

Liam Williams and Hallam Amos have been released back to the regions for this weekends fixtures, to get them more game time before the 6N:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/liam-williams-hallam-amos-sent-10797756

And for those of you who do not like to click on WOL:-

Liam Williams and Hallam Amos sent back to regions to prepare for Six Nations, but Sam Warburton stays in Wales camp.

Williams will make his comeback for the Scarlets, Amos is having another run-out for the Dragons, but captain Warburton won't play again before Ireland clash.

Liam Williams and Hallam Amos have been released back to their regions for this weekend's Guinness Pro12 matches, but Sam Warburton won't play again before the Six Nations opener against Ireland on Sunday week.
Williams is set to feature for the Scarlets in the match away to Connacht in what will be his first outing since the recurrence of a foot injury at the World Cup.
Amos, who only returned last week for the Dragons from a dislocated shoulder, is having another run-out for the Rodney Parade side when they entertain Leinster on Friday night.
Warburton though is remaining in camp with Wales even though he only made his comeback for the Blues in the rout of Calvisano last Friday.
That was his first appearance since he limped out of his region's clash with the Ospreys in November with ankle damage.
While the captain has suffered from an obvious lack of game-time, Wales boss Warren Gatland has decided against risking him.
Gatland is due to name his side for the first game of the Six Nations in Dublin this Wednesday at noon.

That makes sense given them game time, hopefully they don't get re-injured.

Williams was always tipped to play against Connacht this weekend but still surprised that Priestland has not been released back given as they said his lack of game time is a worry.

I wonder how Lydiate is shaping up, not much has been said about him, the others who were injured have all had at least 80 minutes now and Williams will hopefully get a full game.

Even if he get the full 80 I am not sure if it's worth risking him against Ireland, maybe start him on the bench start Anscombe at XV.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Williams was always tipped to play against Connacht this weekend but still surprised that Priestland has not been released back given as they said his lack of game time is a worry.

It's not very consistent, is it?

Nope and given fact Priestland would have very likely started this weekend against Sarries it seems even stranger.

A bit late but to be fair to Mikey, Sam Davies has had some woeful games (Zebre, Dragons) to go with his superb games (Blues, Clermont). His goalkicking is no different to Priestlands (he missed two in front of the posts against dragons) and Priestland got slaughtered by the welsh public so Sam should be no where near the Welsh squad until his goalkicking improves. I think Owen Williams is way ahead in the pecking order personally

Williams managed to establish himself as a starter for Tigers when he wasn't injured. I would say he was definitely worth a look-in. I hope he returns to play for one of the regions someday - I guess it would most likely be Ospreys.

I would love Owen Williams at Cardiff, tho any of the Welsh sides will do. Currently in Wales Patchell has the best potential to serve as Biggars number 2 for Wales. I can see both O. Williams and Patch as future Welsh fly halves, especially if Biggars injured. I like Anscombe, he's a better 10 than 15, and has got a great pass, both left and right. His kicking's a bit dodgy tho, out of hand and off the tee.

True Raven wrote:A bit late but to be fair to Mikey, Sam Davies has had some woeful games (Zebre, Dragons) to go with his superb games (Blues, Clermont).  His goalkicking is no different to Priestlands (he missed two in front of the posts against dragons) and Priestland got slaughtered by the welsh public so Sam should be no where near the Welsh squad until his goalkicking improves.  I think Owen Williams is way ahead in the pecking order personally

This.

I am in no mood for another Hook or Priestland. Very handy when they're on form but can go beyond shocking when they're not. It's been a very long time since Biggar showed any similar indications of mental frailty. We need to establish this precedent in future selections. One of the positions where you most require composure, consistency and mental resilience is at 10. It's also arguably the position where you can least afford a mental cave-in.

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Have a watch of this. Most people thought this was a superb performance by Davies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbmBwe4y3rk

I suppose it was. I'm already aware of this fixture btw and I knew you would bring it to my attention. It just proves my point about inconsistency when you look at his previous games, in particular the one against Munster. Seeing posters big him up for Wales duty based on this single performance of his career was quite laughable.

maestegmafia wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Mikey - Those "Truths" are your opinion mate. Many said the same about a certain Shane Williams not so long ago, Can't tackle, too small, can't read the game and they were the Pro pundits. Sam Davies is developing well and it remains to be seen if he can reach a consistent level. In my opinion he's having a good season and has shown up well against strong opposition. Its far too early to write such a talent off and naïve to even suggest it as the Shane Williams doubters discovered. As for RP, the less said the better

I agree RG

Having seen him play a few seasons now the level of improvement has been huge. He has had a few howlers but most of his games are good, even impressive as with the matches this season vs Treviso, Blues and most recently the win over Clermont Auvergne. I remember another very good performance against Munster last season too.

I am not saying he is the answer to making Wales the new All Blacks but he is in the ball park as a player with the opportunity and ability to reach a standard that builds or strength and depth in his position.

I agree with the posters above that Owen Williams and Patchell look like the two players I most expect to be back up Biggar in the next few seasons. May, hopefully, one day push him for his place.

O Williams has bad timing with injury, he has been in really good form for the Tigers this year. I wonder where Gatland sees Anscombe fitting in better, 10 or XV or does he seem him more as a utility player.

The perfect bench option. The reality is none of the fly halves listed are gonna oust biggar from that 10 shirt by the next World Cup, biggar owns that jersey like sexton owns the Irish 10 jersey, so anscombes or patchells versatility should see them on the bench over priestland

Saying Biggar is going to hold onto the No10 shirt for the next 3 and half years is a big shout given how injuries and form can dictate.

The good thing is it seems that Anscombe is the Blues choice at No10 and Patchell is moving to the Scarlets to play 10, so that will mean that 3 of our Regions will have quality players competing for the one shirt - oops sorry I meant the 4 Regions as the great Lyn Jones said that Dorian Jones was in contention as well before his injury.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Saying Biggar is going to hold onto the No10 shirt for the next 3 and half years is a big shout given how injuries and form can dictate.

The good thing is it seems that Anscombe is the Blues choice at No10 and Patchell is moving to the Scarlets to play 10, so that will mean that 3 of our Regions will have quality players competing for the one shirt - oops sorry I meant the 4 Regions as the great Lyn Jones said that Dorian Jones was in contention as well before his injury.

I don't agree with Lyn on Dorian. He has a few good games but I don't see an international player in him.

I think Not having your lads play for the team you coach is preferable. Look at the mess England have had with Farrell snr's reported influence on selection at the RWC, or at Bath with an out of form George Ford undroppable.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Saying Biggar is going to hold onto the No10 shirt for the next 3 and half years is a big shout given how injuries and form can dictate.

The good thing is it seems that Anscombe is the Blues choice at No10 and Patchell is moving to the Scarlets to play 10, so that will mean that 3 of our Regions will have quality players competing for the one shirt - oops sorry I meant the 4 Regions as the great Lyn Jones said that Dorian Jones was in contention as well before his injury.

I don't agree with Lyn on Dorian. He has a few good games but I don't see an international player in him.

I think Not having your lads play for the team you coach is preferable. Look at the mess England have had with Farrell snr's reported influence on selection at the RWC, or at Bath with an out of form George Ford undroppable.

An out of form George Ford on 1 and a half legs is preferable to the alternative

Biggar is not nailed on for the next 4 years - He's in great form but there may be others who offer an alternative in the future, some we may not know about as yet. A couple of times this year Sam D has come on and changed the game when Biggar has been struggling to impose himself. It happens and no one is nailed on for 3-4 years.

It does look like the Factory has re-opened though and that should make Max happy after the demise of the mines.

When Halfpenny returns do you throw him the tee back?

I wouldn't... not sure I'd even start with him either. Biggar during the world cup was the main reason why they got out of the pool stages. He was so accurate with his place kicking, you couldn't ask for more and in fact what he delivered was way way above expectations of even the finest goal kickers.

Halfpenny is a good kicker, good defender but there are better attackers and taking the tee away from him gives you options.
If you have a 10 equal in kicking to someone else in the team... you always throw him the tee. You have to give him the responsibility, make him feel like the big man. If not you rock his confidence. Flyhalves by nature are like that, generals who create.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Saying Biggar is going to hold onto the No10 shirt for the next 3 and half years is a big shout given how injuries and form can dictate.

The good thing is it seems that Anscombe is the Blues choice at No10 and Patchell is moving to the Scarlets to play 10, so that will mean that 3 of our Regions will have quality players competing for the one shirt - oops sorry I meant the 4 Regions as the great Lyn Jones said that Dorian Jones was in contention as well before his injury.

I don't agree with Lyn on Dorian. He has a few good games but I don't see an international player in him.

Neither do we in Sam Davies. Dragons supporters don't think Dorian is ready, but like I said earlier put him in an Ospreys jersey and you'll get all their fans saying he should be in team Wales.

fa0019 wrote:When Halfpenny returns do you throw him the tee back?

I wouldn't... not sure I'd even start with him either. Biggar during the world cup was the main reason why they got out of the pool stages. He was so accurate with his place kicking, you couldn't ask for more and in fact what he delivered was way way above expectations of even the finest goal kickers.

Halfpenny is a good kicker, good defender but there are better attackers and taking the tee away from him gives you options.
If you have a 10 equal in kicking to someone else in the team... you always throw him the tee. You have to give him the responsibility, make him feel like the big man. If not you rock his confidence. Flyhalves by nature are like that, generals who create.

Not straight away. I remember when he returned from injury a while ago it took quite some time for his kicking accuracy to return. When he's back I would place him on the wing for a few games to see how he goes. Right now I'm happy with Biggar at 10 and Williams at 15.

mikey_dragon wrote:

fa0019 wrote:When Halfpenny returns do you throw him the tee back?

I wouldn't... not sure I'd even start with him either. Biggar during the world cup was the main reason why they got out of the pool stages. He was so accurate with his place kicking, you couldn't ask for more and in fact what he delivered was way way above expectations of even the finest goal kickers.

Halfpenny is a good kicker, good defender but there are better attackers and taking the tee away from him gives you options.
If you have a 10 equal in kicking to someone else in the team... you always throw him the tee. You have to give him the responsibility, make him feel like the big man. If not you rock his confidence. Flyhalves by nature are like that, generals who create.

Not straight away. I remember when he returned from injury a while ago it took quite some time for his kicking accuracy to return. When he's back I would place him on the wing for a few games to see how he goes. Right now I'm happy with Biggar at 10 and Williams at 15.

Even when back to full fitness and kicking prowess, even if he is first choice 15.. Biggar should retain the tee IMO.

fa0019 wrote: you couldn't ask for more and in fact what he delivered was way way above expectations of even the finest goal kickers.

Only outside of Wales, there are many people who knew exactly what we were expecting, infact it was said on here numerous times that we were not worried about losing Halfpenny's goal kicking as Biggar was just as good.

In fact I would not start Halfpenny at fullback either if we had a fully fit squad, I would put Liam Williams there and put Halfpenny on the wing instead of Cuthbert.

Just talking to Edwards, injuries permitting the Backline for Ireland is:

9 - Davies
10 - Biggar
11 - North
12 - DOC
13 - Fox
14 - Amos
15 - Liam

No chance Ruby. Cuthbert is the first name on any of Gatland's team sheets

LordDowlais wrote:

fa0019 wrote: you couldn't ask for more and in fact what he delivered was way way above expectations of even the finest goal kickers.

Only outside of Wales, there are many people who knew exactly what we were expecting, infact it was said on here numerous times that we were not worried about losing Halfpenny's goal kicking as Biggar was just as good.

In fact I would not start Halfpenny at fullback either if we had a fully fit squad, I would put Liam Williams there and put Halfpenny on the wing instead of Cuthbert.

Yes, North, Halfpenny and Liam Williams would be my choice right now. With Amos on the bench as someone who can cover both at a push. Let Cuthbert try to regain form and confidence at his club, not on the international stage. He's got a few tries recently so maybe he's on his ay back, and a new contract (I think) so less distractions perhaps. But he seems a last resort at the moment so if there are other decent options then lets use them while we can.

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Saying Biggar is going to hold onto the No10 shirt for the next 3 and half years is a big shout given how injuries and form can dictate.

The good thing is it seems that Anscombe is the Blues choice at No10 and Patchell is moving to the Scarlets to play 10, so that will mean that 3 of our Regions will have quality players competing for the one shirt - oops sorry I meant the 4 Regions as the great Lyn Jones said that Dorian Jones was in contention as well before his injury.

I don't agree with Lyn on Dorian. He has a few good games but I don't see an international player in him.

Neither do we in Sam Davies. Dragons supporters don't think Dorian is ready, but like I said earlier put him in an Ospreys jersey and you'll get all their fans saying he should be in team Wales.

Mikey,

I know we have had our lets say debates over North but on this issue I couldn't agree more. I mentioned the same thing last week over how Underhill is being fawned over (he does look good) yet if he was in a Dragons shirt like Ollie Griffiths is hardly anything would be mentioned.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Saying Biggar is going to hold onto the No10 shirt for the next 3 and half years is a big shout given how injuries and form can dictate.

The good thing is it seems that Anscombe is the Blues choice at No10 and Patchell is moving to the Scarlets to play 10, so that will mean that 3 of our Regions will have quality players competing for the one shirt - oops sorry I meant the 4 Regions as the great Lyn Jones said that Dorian Jones was in contention as well before his injury.

I don't agree with Lyn on Dorian. He has a few good games but I don't see an international player in him.

Neither do we in Sam Davies. Dragons supporters don't think Dorian is ready, but like I said earlier put him in an Ospreys jersey and you'll get all their fans saying he should be in team Wales.

Mikey,

I know we have had our lets say debates over North but on this issue I couldn't agree more.  I mentioned the same thing last week over how Underhill is being fawned over (he does look good) yet if he was in a Dragons shirt like Ollie Griffiths is hardly anything would be mentioned.

To the highlighted part, Mikey, you put the same thing earlier in the thread, and you've mentioned it before, for a start you haven't heard ALL Ospreys fans, because I haven't, and other supposed Ospreys fans on here haven't either, you really have a vendetta against Sam, funnily enough another Dragons supporter who was banned off this site, just about a month before you arrived had exactly the same Junior WC viewpoint as yourself, luckily enough for us our coaches have a better understanding of a controlling outside half than yourself.
BW, they've fawned over Underhill as you put it because of his form against the best in Europe,and from what I've read Ollie has had good reports as well, perhaps you should let him come to us and we could see if he could do the same against the best