Wales 6 Nations Squad

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Forwards:
Rob Evans (Scarlets), Paul James (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing 92), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Dominic Day (Bath Rugby), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Cardiff Blues), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), James King (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester Rugby), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (CAPT) (Cardiff Blues).
Backs:
Aled Davies (Scarlets) *, Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues) Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Bath Rugby), Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons), Jamie Roberts (Harlequins), Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Tom James (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Matthew Morgan (Bristol Rugby), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

After two disappointing six nations championships Wales have a lot to prove, a settled squad and environment, but this team need to step up a level.

Positives from the REC were the spirit and resilience that an injury depleted squad showed.

Negatives were the results against Fiji, Oz and the Boks

As far as I am concerned anything other than a Grandslam is a complete failure

If we cannot beat teams like England, Ireland and France convincingly then how are we going to manage against world class opposition

We did do well mind at the RWC considering the injuries to the squad

Poor performances against England and Fiji even though we won

Should have beaten South Africa

I think your statement on the grand slam is harsh. We don't know how good France will be, or England for that matter.

I am not expecting much from France although apart from our game with them I hope they prove me wrong

As for the mighty world beaters England...after failing to get our of the group stage in a tournament they were hosting after telling everyone they were going to win it I expect they will be looking for revenge when we play them at "HQ" again. This time we will have a better team out than the injury hit squad that managed to scrape past them

mikey_dragon wrote:I think the back 3 picks itself, and hopefully Gatland agrees with the fans that Cuthbert should be as far away from it as possible. So we're starting to see the team take shape finally. For me there's quite varying degrees of uncertainty about our starting pack. Warburton wasn't released this weekend so to me this indicates he's a certain starter and whilst I think he is a better player than Tips, it is the latter who should be starting. Might both of them start on each flank? There's good depth at lock so it'll be one of Davies or Charteris to partner AWJ - both in great form so they might take it in turns to be starters. Hooker is surely Baldwin with Owens on the bench. Props I have no idea - we need to pick the best scrummagers but I'm not even sure who that is right now. I would like to see Rob Evans as a starter because he's been in great form since last season.

I posted it before but I'll do it again: Sanjay, Junior Doc, Foxy, Doc, North, Biggar, Davies, Faletau, Tips, Warbs, Charteris, Best lock in the world, Francis, Baldwin, Evans.

Mikey,

I would most probably start our usual backrow if Lydiate is fit but overall I would be happy with that side. Whether he starts or not Evans has to be given some serious gametime this tournament as neither Jenkins nor James are going to be around for next world cup, I'd also like to see Moriarty get a decent amount of gametime.

chris_501 wrote:Anyone watching Scrum V?

I'm no clearer on what Howley is wanting our attack to do. If that's what he conveys to our backs, I'm not surprised we look clueless at times.

Also, very funny seeing the Shaun Edwards interview!

Howley actually said the words 'Our philosophy hasn't changed one bit in 8 years'. Actually. Sigh. Could it not change just a little bit?

JDizzle wrote:

chris_501 wrote:Anyone watching Scrum V?

I'm no clearer on what Howley is wanting our attack to do. If that's what he conveys to our backs, I'm not surprised we look clueless at times.

Also, very funny seeing the Shaun Edwards interview!

Howley actually said the words 'Our philosophy hasn't changed one bit in 8 years'. Actually. Sigh. Could it not change just a little bit?

That's the f********* problem. Him and McBryde should have gone ages ago but at worst after the world cup.

They should have Bedford, they sincerely should have. Jiffy was a bit of a muppet as well mind, insinuating we should have brought on Hook or Priestland during the world cup game against Australia. They probably would have gifted Aus another 7 points!

bedfordwelsh wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

chris_501 wrote:Anyone watching Scrum V?

I'm no clearer on what Howley is wanting our attack to do. If that's what he conveys to our backs, I'm not surprised we look clueless at times.

Also, very funny seeing the Shaun Edwards interview!

Howley actually said the words 'Our philosophy hasn't changed one bit in 8 years'. Actually. Sigh. Could it not change just a little bit?

That's the f********* problem.  Him and McBryde should have gone ages ago but at worst after the world cup.

But BEDFORD.

If it is not broke why fix it.

maestegmafia wrote:After two disappointing six nations championships Wales have a lot to prove, a settled squad and environment, but this team need to step up a level.

Positives from the REC were the spirit and resilience that an injury depleted squad showed.

Negatives were the results against Fiji, Oz and the Boks

Disappointing?!? We won four games last year. Sure it was gutting we lost at home against England but four wins is pretty good!

It was disappointing that we didn't win.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:I think the back 3 picks itself, and hopefully Gatland agrees with the fans that Cuthbert should be as far away from it as possible. So we're starting to see the team take shape finally. For me there's quite varying degrees of uncertainty about our starting pack. Warburton wasn't released this weekend so to me this indicates he's a certain starter and whilst I think he is a better player than Tips, it is the latter who should be starting. Might both of them start on each flank? There's good depth at lock so it'll be one of Davies or Charteris to partner AWJ - both in great form so they might take it in turns to be starters. Hooker is surely Baldwin with Owens on the bench. Props I have no idea - we need to pick the best scrummagers but I'm not even sure who that is right now. I would like to see Rob Evans as a starter because he's been in great form since last season.

I posted it before but I'll do it again: Sanjay, Junior Doc, Foxy, Doc, North, Biggar, Davies, Faletau, Tips, Warbs, Charteris, Best lock in the world, Francis, Baldwin, Evans.

Mikey,

I would most probably start our usual backrow if Lydiate is fit but overall I would be happy with that side. Whether he starts or not Evans has to be given some serious gametime this tournament as neither Jenkins nor James are going to be around for next world cup, I'd also like to see Moriarty get a decent amount of gametime.

That's the team id pick but James instead of rob Evans. I think Paul James has been the best loosehead this year and don't feel the need yet to replace all the old timers

The time to try newbies is when Scots are beaten - or any side for that matter - and against Italy but i see no point in continuing much longer with Gethin.

JDizzle wrote:

chris_501 wrote:Anyone watching Scrum V?

I'm no clearer on what Howley is wanting our attack to do. If that's what he conveys to our backs, I'm not surprised we look clueless at times.

Also, very funny seeing the Shaun Edwards interview!

Howley actually said the words 'Our philosophy hasn't changed one bit in 8 years'. Actually. Sigh. Could it not change just a little bit?

Did he really? FFS. Was this in an interview? What did the interviewer say to that?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:What did the interviewer say to that?

It was Jiffy, and he agreed with him and laughed.

I was more engrossed in Ross Harries interview with Shaun Edwards, Ross was asking him stupid questions and Shaun Edwards made him look like a tool, very uncomfortable stuff.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

chris_501 wrote:Anyone watching Scrum V?

I'm no clearer on what Howley is wanting our attack to do. If that's what he conveys to our backs, I'm not surprised we look clueless at times.

Also, very funny seeing the Shaun Edwards interview!

Howley actually said the words 'Our philosophy hasn't changed one bit in 8 years'. Actually. Sigh. Could it not change just a little bit?

Did he really? FFS. Was this in an interview? What did the interviewer say to that?

Put in to context what he meant by philosophy and that sentence isn't such a damning criticism.

Jonathan Davies discussing attack with Howley on Scrum V.

I think you have to start James on form but he is more the same so expect to see Amos which is a smart move to have another FB on the pitch.

Backs at the moment
Biggar, North, Doc, JD2, Amos, Williams with Anscombe and Morgan on the bench although i expect to see Preistland and Morgan.

Gwlad wrote:I think you have to start James on form but he is more  the same so expect to see Amos which is a smart move to have another FB on the pitch.

Backs at the moment
Biggar, North, Doc, JD2, Amos, Williams with Anscombe and Morgan on the bench although i expect to see Preistland and Morgan.

Priestland has played more than Andcombe but I think Anscombe will get the nod.

I also think the decision between Amos and Tom James is a tricky one that I might also chose James over Amos due to form.

For me the Tom James issue is a non - issue - They guy is fine in a straight line but is an absolute liability everywhere else - Wouldn't have him anywhere near the squad. If ever a player didn't have a rugby brain this is the fella. Shame really

Amos every time for me

Bench seems to be even more important after the England game we've proved we have impact players

For me it would be something like:

Priestland or Anscombe or Morgan
Lloyd
Francis
LH ?
Owens
Bradley
Tips/lydiate
Moriarty

Gwlad wrote:Bench seems to be even more important after the England game we've proved we have impact players

For me it would be something like:

Priestland or Anscombe or Morgan
Lloyd
Francis
LH ?
Owens
Bradley
Tips/lydiate
Moriarty

Sacrafice a back for a forward?

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Bench seems to be even more important after the England game we've proved we have impact players

For me it would be something like:

Priestland or Anscombe or Morgan
Lloyd
Francis
LH ?
Owens
Bradley
Tips/lydiate
Moriarty

Sacrafice a back for a forward?

I think so, its where he has always been trying to achieve advantage with the likes of Hook and Ryan Jones who could cover 3-4 positions. Our lack of strength in depth means these players are doubly important.

Its the pack that takes the brunt so if we can have players like Amos, Anscombe and Morgan who can cover more than one position with George covering center then it further pushes Priest down the utility scale. Lloyd has proved his worth and Webb will have to earn his place again.

Ideally we'd have a prop covering both sides but you need a replacement front row these days. You have to have a Bradley or Ball in the mix. I think Moriarty has to be brought on for his carrying in the last 3rd and the inevitable day Taulupe has a wobble.

It will be a Tips/Lydiate/Warbs cycle for the next 4 years IMO.

It's an interesting thought

Is there a Wales U20 list of players? And the 7s too?

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/wales/news/u20/35593.php#.Vq_LG0XfXCQ

Didn't see a team for the u20s vs Ireland as yet

Wales Under 20 v Ireland: Rhun Williams (RGC); Elis-Wyn Benham (Cardiff Blues), Harri Millard (Cardiff Blues), Owen Watkin (Ospreys), Keelan Giles (Ospreys); Dan Jones (Scarlets), Declan Smith (Scarlets); Corey Domachowski (Cardiff Blues), Dafydd Hughes (Scarlets), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Shane Lewis-Hughes (Cardiff Blues), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Tom Phillips (captain, Scarlets), Shaun Evans (Scarlets), Harrison Keddie (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Replacements: Ifan Phillips (Scarlets), Robert Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Leon Brown (Newport Gwent Dragons), Bryce Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons), Morgan Sieniawski (Cardiff Blues), Reuben Morgan-Williams (Ospreys), Jarrod Evans (Cardiff Blues), Joe Thomas (Ospreys)

Anyone fancy Aled over Gareth or is it to big a game for him?

Gwlad wrote:Anyone fancy Aled over Gareth or is it to big a game for him?

I rate Gareth Davies as a better attacking force, he'll keep their back row honest

I'm just happy trusting Gatland, every time I wonder why he does something the player he's selects seems to manage just fine. I was worried about Matthew Morgan against Fiji and he made a try. I was worried about Amos and he was fine.
I'll just trust Gatland I think he's the best person Wales can get at that job.

Agreed Shifty.
The coaching team sees a hell of a lot more than we do day in day out. I'm more than happy to trust them.

Very interesting article on North on the BBC website.
Seems that he may be off sooner rather than later.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35470543

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:Agreed Shifty.
The coaching team sees a hell of a lot more than we do day in day out. I'm more than happy to trust them.

Very interesting article on North on the BBC website.
Seems that he may be off sooner rather than later.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35470543

Trust them? No way. Howler just admitted they hadn't changed it up in 8 years. They are huge up North but unsuccessful elsewhere. Look at our 2 man advantage v Aus ffs.

Its called Groupthink

If we aren't producing the results we need a change in how we attack. Defence works but we need to stop thinking we can win through defense. it helps but we need tries.

if Howler doesnt produce something in the summer then i think something has to change.

No, he said that their philosophy hasn't changed.
Gain line and mismatches, heads up rugby when a break is made.

Our issue I suppose is how we've tried to accomplish those things.
The set up has brought us a lot of success, success growing up that I though I'd never see.

I'm hoping that they're capable of a bit of evolution of thinking.
I think the wider and unstructured structures game plans of NZ and Oz will be a trend that they'll recognise and try to implement.

I might agree though, that if it doesn't 'evolve' then we could look for a little extra in the coaching team.

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:No, he said that their philosophy hasn't changed.
Gain line and mismatches, heads up rugby when a break is made.

Our issue I suppose is how we've tried to accomplish those things.
The set up has brought us a lot of success, success growing up that I though I'd never see.

I'm hoping that they're capable of a bit of evolution of thinking.
I think the wider and unstructured structures game plans of NZ and Oz will be a trend that they'll recognise and try to implement.

I might agree though, that if it doesn't 'evolve'  then we could look for a little extra in the coaching team.

wtf dont split hairs

you know what he meant, it even has a name.

Our success up here shows us up even more as needing change

evolution is one word for it, change another

Gwlad wrote:Anyone fancy Aled over Gareth or is it to big a game for him?

Considering the fact that Aled isn't good enough for this level, my answer is a resounding no.

Not splitting hairs, a philosophy is very different to how you carry it out. It's your mission statement type of thing.

I think that's what he was meaning. Certainly how I read it.

I guess when I say evolve, I mean a change of thinking with no personnel change.

You start Gareth Davies 100%. He's the incumbent and he's got to be outperformed in training and in matches to be ousted.
I don't think Aled r Lloyd are capable of doing that.

Definition of stupidity is repeating the same mistake again and again - something the likes of Ediie jones dont do - read Darwin's piece about him in the Guardian- yet because we keep winning up North we are missing the opportunity to change they way we need to challenge down South and dominate up here the way we could.

IMO we need a new attack coach and fast and to give Doc a rest v Italy in the search for something different.

Think Eddie won't be able to handle Gatball…i don't.

I certainly see what you're saying and don't disagree at all.
I just think that they may be capable of creating the needed change of mindset.
I'd also imagine that the players would be crying out for it.
It wouldn't surprise me if its come up in senior leadership/coaches meetings.

As for Eddie, he might, his players maybe not.
Don't forget how bad a run he had with the Reds and Sarries.
I do think he's better suited to international coaching but he's certainly not the messiah in my opinion.

Wales online team

L Williams
T James
J Davies
J Roberts
G North
D Biggar
G Davies
G Jenkins
S Baldwin
S Lee
L Charteris
AW Jones
S Warburton c
J Tipuric
T Faletau

Gwlad wrote:

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:No, he said that their philosophy hasn't changed.
Gain line and mismatches, heads up rugby when a break is made.

Our issue I suppose is how we've tried to accomplish those things.
The set up has brought us a lot of success, success growing up that I though I'd never see.

I'm hoping that they're capable of a bit of evolution of thinking.
I think the wider and unstructured structures game plans of NZ and Oz will be a trend that they'll recognise and try to implement.

I might agree though, that if it doesn't 'evolve'  then we could look for a little extra in the coaching team.

wtf dont split hairs

you know what he meant, it even has a name.

Our success up here shows us up even more as needing change

evolution is one word for it, change another

Monkey isn't splitting hairs, he correctly quoted what was said in the interview.

maestegmafia wrote:Wales online team

L Williams
T James
J Davies
J Roberts
G North
D Biggar
G Davies
G Jenkins
S Baldwin
S Lee
L Charteris
AW Jones
S Warburton c
J Tipuric
T Faletau

No surprise on the selection of their love child.

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:No, he said that their philosophy hasn't changed.
Gain line and mismatches, heads up rugby when a break is made.

Our issue I suppose is how we've tried to accomplish those things.
The set up has brought us a lot of success, success growing up that I though I'd never see.

I'm hoping that they're capable of a bit of evolution of thinking.
I think the wider and unstructured structures game plans of NZ and Oz will be a trend that they'll recognise and try to implement.

I might agree though, that if it doesn't 'evolve'  then we could look for a little extra in the coaching team.

wtf dont split hairs

you know what he meant, it even has a name.

Our success up here shows us up even more as needing change

evolution is one word for it, change another

Monkey isn't splitting hairs, he correctly quoted what was said in the interview.

Now you are. Is it like obtuse day or something?

I said Howler admitted they hadn't changed it up since 08. true

Monkey said howler said their philosophy hadn't changed. true

Its the same thing. Unless you want to split hairs.

They have the same approach to the game (their philosophy) so of course the way they play it hasn't changed. QED thank you very much.

FFS i need a drink.

No, really they're not the same.
And he said that the philosophy hasn't changed, not that they haven't changed things up.
What you said is untrue.

A teams' philosophy is very different to their game plan.
A philosophy is an identity a collective.

Now, that doesn't mean that I disagree with your sentiment. We do need a change, I'm just of the opinion that coaches can evolve their way of playing the game. I do also agree that a little extra help or another voice may help.

I'd be looking at getting a Wayne Smith type in to mentor Howley as HC if and when Gats gets the Lions role.

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:No, really they're not the same.
And he said that the philosophy hasn't changed, not that they haven't changed things up.
What you said is untrue.

A teams' philosophy is very different  to their game plan.
A philosophy is an identity a collective.

Now, that doesn't mean that I disagree with your sentiment. We do need a change, I'm just of the opinion that coaches can evolve their way of playing the game. I do also agree that a little extra help or another voice may help.

I'd be looking at getting a Wayne Smith type in to mentor Howley as HC if and when Gats gets the Lions role.

Owain, its semantics and i would bet our next grand Slam on the fact Howley means what i think he means, that they haven't 'changed it up' since Doc was taken off the wing and told ' carry it up, we keep going round the corner and then carry it up, we keep going round the corner' etc etc ad nauseam

I have seen only one distinct variation on the Gatlandball theme which is when we beat SA by keeping it very tight and going wide very quick.
And why not, it works up North. Personally i dont think Howler could evolve now if he wanted to, this is hard wired and reveals a lack of a deeper understanding that we play percentages at our peril. Gone are the days when we said, look up and try and offload. Now its route 1, contact, ground, recylce, route 1 contact ground recycle. Penalty? Oh thanks very much.

The only person who thought to nullify our entire game was Lancaster who picked Burgess to stop him and then took him off at the crucial moment in the game.

Look how often we score tries…not very.

Philosophy my #$%^

It still baffles me as to why he took him off!

But we've shown at times that we are more than capable, albeit a bit rarely but Italy last year was a breath of fresh air, as was the whole weekend.
England 30-3 for example was a day where I think we could've beaten anyone. With a good brand.

I'm just hoping that the players are empowered in the the planning and that we do loosen the reigns a little too.

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:No, he said that their philosophy hasn't changed.
Gain line and mismatches, heads up rugby when a break is made.

Our issue I suppose is how we've tried to accomplish those things.
The set up has brought us a lot of success, success growing up that I though I'd never see.

I'm hoping that they're capable of a bit of evolution of thinking.
I think the wider and unstructured structures game plans of NZ and Oz will be a trend that they'll recognise and try to implement.

I might agree though, that if it doesn't 'evolve'  then we could look for a little extra in the coaching team.

wtf dont split hairs

you know what he meant, it even has a name.

Our success up here shows us up even more as needing change

evolution is one word for it, change another

Monkey isn't splitting hairs, he correctly quoted what was said in the interview.

Now you are. Is it like obtuse day or something?

I said Howler admitted they hadn't changed it up since 08. true

Monkey said howler said their philosophy hadn't changed. true

Its the same thing. Unless you want to split hairs.

They have the same approach to the game (their philosophy) so of course the way they play it hasn't changed. QED thank you very much.

FFS i need a drink.

I thought you had already had quite a few mate?

I think the philosophy he was talking about was "earning the space out wide".

And his point was that we have not been clinical when we have that advantage.

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Wales online team

L Williams
T James
J Davies
J Roberts
G North
D Biggar
G Davies
G Jenkins
S Baldwin
S Lee
L Charteris
AW Jones
S Warburton c
J Tipuric
T Faletau

No surprise on the selection of their love child.

It's the readers/click giver's team, not the churnos. Andy Howell actually picked Amos over James, Aled Davies at 9 and Bradley in the row.

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:It still baffles me as to why he took him off!

But we've shown at times that we are more than capable, albeit a bit rarely but Italy last year was a breath of fresh air, as was the whole weekend.
England 30-3 for example was a day where I think we could've beaten anyone. With a good brand.

I'm just hoping that the players are empowered in the the planning and that we do loosen the reigns a little too.

Oh god no not the 'we could have beaten anyone' philosophy

England were dismal, utterly awful.

We can't beat SH teams playing the way we do, its not intelligent and they are. We lack much more than 2" when it comes to these teams. My wife says we lack about 6"

Gwlad wrote:

MonkeyOwain12 wrote:It still baffles me as to why he took him off!

But we've shown at times that we are more than capable, albeit a bit rarely but Italy last year was a breath of fresh air, as was the whole weekend.
England 30-3 for example was a day where I think we could've beaten anyone. With a good brand.

I'm just hoping that the players are empowered in the the planning and that we do loosen the reigns a little too.

Oh god no not the 'we could have beaten anyone' philosophy

England were dismal, utterly awful.

We can't beat SH teams playing the way we do, its not intelligent and they are. We lack much more than 2" when it comes to these teams. My wife says we lack about 6"

We have t got to worry about a Southern Hemisphere team for a few months. Let's see how we go against the locals first, if we can't beat them we're buggered on tour.

Do you not even think that we completely nullified them that day?
We completely outplayed them, outmuscled them.

Attacked wide when earned, kicked well, relieved pressure. It was a very SH performance. Take the chances you earn.

Either way, we are in agreement that we need a change. I guess I'm a little more positive in thinking that we're not that far off and that we don't need to rewrite the whole thing and make drastic changes.