Australia v England, 18 June

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 11:07 am

Australia v England, 18 June  Austra10      Australia v England, 18 June  Englan10
AUSTRALIA v ENGLAND
18 June 2016
20:00 AEST (UTC+10)
AAMI Park, Melbourne

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

45 Played 45
25 Won 19
1 Drawn 1
19 Lost 25
968 Points 713

B. Recent Form

11 June 2016 - Suncorp, Brisbane: Australia 28–39 England

3 October 2015 - Twickenham, London: 13 – 33 to Australia

29 November 2014 - Twickenham, London: 26 – 17 to England

2 November 2013 - Twickenham, London: 20 – 13 to England

17 November 2012 - Twickenham, London: 14 – 20 to Australia

13 November 2010 - Twickenham, London: 35 – 18 to England

19 June 2010 - Telstra Stadium, Sydney: 20 – 21 to England

12 June 2010 - Subiaco Oval, Perth: 27 – 17 to Australia

C. Teams

AUSTRALIA 
Australia v England, 18 June  Roos10
Israel Folau; Dane Haylett-Petty, Tevita Kuridrani, Samu Kerevi, Rob Horne; Bernard Foley, Nick Phipps; James Slipper, Stephen Moore (capt), Sekope Kepu, Rory Arnold, Sam Carter, Scott Fardy, Michael Hooper, Sean McMahon.

Replacements (three to be omitted): Tatafu Polota-Nau, Toby Smith, Greg Holmes, James Horwill, Dean Mumm, Wycliff Palu, Ben McCalman, Liam Gill, Nick Frisby, Christian Leali'ifano, Luke Morahan

ENGLAND
Australia v England, 18 June  Lion10


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 16 Jun 2016, 5:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by yappysnap on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:17 pm

England by 50+ Farrel and Cole to get hatricks, Youngs will still struggle to pass well or quickly.

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:32 pm

Craig Joubert? hmmm

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:35 pm

lostinwales wrote:Craig Joubert? hmmm
I hope that we have a replacement referee on standby as we all know that our bud Craig likes to sprint from the pitch before the final whistle.
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Post by Scottrf on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:40 pm

Australia are unlikely to give away as many kickable penalties this week. Can see them reversing the result. Can't wait though, has the looks of a great series.

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 12:42 pm

I'll say one thing that I noticed that told a story on Saturday. Every time there was a lineout right through to the end, England ran up and got into position early. Australia ambled up in 2's and 3's. That's always a good sign of which set of forwards is on top

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Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:03 pm

lostinwales wrote:Craig Joubert? hmmm

Sydney Morning Herald says Joubert will be "under pressure to even out a lopsided penalty count".

Isn't it the players who should be responsible for that?

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Post by yappysnap on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:07 pm

lostinwales wrote:Craig Joubert? hmmm

Didn't see this.

Oz by 50+

Joubert does a lap of honour and jogs off the pitch at 79 mins to a standing ovation

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Post by yappysnap on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:08 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Craig Joubert? hmmm

Sydney Morning Herald says Joubert will be "under pressure to even out a lopsided penalty count".

Isn't it the players who should be responsible for that?

How much bitching will the Oz press and management do pre game to sway the ref this time? RWC levels perhaps?

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:12 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Craig Joubert? hmmm

Sydney Morning Herald says Joubert will be "under pressure to even out a lopsided penalty count".

Isn't it the players who should be responsible for that?

Yeah its kind of funny this Australian thinking that
(a) we should play a completely open game which will play to Australian strengths
(b) we should always let that nice Mr. Pocock (or in his absence Hooper?) take the ball from the ground whenever he wants it and try not to get in his way.
(c) the wallabies are completely blameless in all phases of the game and any penalties are only down to those nasty european referees who have no understanding of how Rugby should be played (see a and b above)

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Post by Scottrf on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:17 pm

There were a few people on G&GR that seemed to think England's win didn't really count because there were a lot of penalties. It's a bit pathetic.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:24 pm

There were a couple of times last game Pocock kept blatantly holding onto the ball when he was clearly of his feet (I think one of them he was on his back) and afterwards Hooper would go to the ref and ask what for with Pocock nearby. Made me laugh. Think they are both excellent 7s and will be interesting to see if they put McMahon to 8 or go to a traditional back row.

Think Joubert will get influenced a little and Australia will come out stronger. If Farrell goes to 12, he will get a yellow. Brown did not do enough to keep his spot and would prefer Nowell, Watson or Goode at 15. Nowell deserves one of the back 3 spots. Haskell had a fantastic match, but still think England need some pace in the backrow even if Itoje is dynamic enough to help make up some of the speed deficit from the 2nd row.

Aus to win by 10-15 points to set up a decider.

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Post by Heaf on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:25 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Craig Joubert? hmmm

Sydney Morning Herald says Joubert will be "under pressure to even out a lopsided penalty count".

Isn't it the players who should be responsible for that?
Indeed - they could try not infringing as much rather than trying to influence the ref to let them get away with it ...

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:31 pm

We have covered the FB debate on the thread for the last match.

What I think (which I said before) is that Brown isn't as good as he used to be but he's still pretty handy. He pulled off at least one excellent try saving tackle and still ran with venom. His attitude is exactly what we need against a physical Australian backline.

Long term I wouldn't mind seeing Watson or Nowell at FB but now just isn't the time to experiment at full back even though Brown's days are possibly numbered.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:40 pm

Unlikely to see any changes in the starting pack, should see one amongst the forwards on the bench.

Changes will be surely among the backs.

Will Ford/Farrell start? If they do who covers from the bench? Some calls for Nowell to start ahead of Yarde (not because Yarde was poor but because pundits feel Nowell offers too much to be left out). Some calls for Goode at 15.

As someone who thought Jones would start with Ford/Farrell and was wrong - I shall not try and second guess him.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:54 pm

lostinwales wrote:I'll say one thing that I noticed that told a story on Saturday. Every time there was a lineout right through to the end, England ran up and got into position early. Australia ambled up in 2's and 3's. That's always a good sign of which set of forwards is on top

No it isn't. I've seen teams stroll to the lineout and boss it.

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Post by Scottrf on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 1:57 pm

Sarries always stroll.

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Post by Scottrf on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:04 pm

This is pretty incredible:

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/attachments/capture-jpg.7972/

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:09 pm

Scottrf wrote:This is pretty incredible:

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/attachments/capture-jpg.7972/

It is but it is also a function of the fact that we were generally very clinical in taking points on offer and Australia spent a long time chasing the game.

It was a very defensive effort (in the most offensive fashion) which given that it was away against a highly rated team isn't a bad way to go

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:11 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
lostinwales wrote:I'll say one thing that I noticed that told a story on Saturday. Every time there was a lineout right through to the end, England ran up and got into position early. Australia ambled up in 2's and 3's. That's always a good sign of which set of forwards is on top

No it isn't. I've seen teams stroll to the lineout and boss it.

Actual Australian lineouts were generally OK. I think we messed a few up but it wasn't the hunting ground it might have been.

But it does send a message that the guys in white still have lots of energy and are going to carry on smashing anything yellow (sorry - 'gold') that they see all match long.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:16 pm

It might say that, but it isn't 'always a good sign of which set of forwards is on top'. OK

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 2:44 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It might say that, but it isn't 'always a good sign of which set of forwards is on top'. OK

fair enough. You can understand there is a little gloating going on. The Australian forwards were beaten up though. There is a lot of (bad) luck involved in injuries and it's nobody's fault except Pocock that he managed to facebutt some part of Brown (?) but I did think it was interesting that all of the injuries were Australian.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:00 pm

England's pack were certainly full of energy in the second half, sometimes a bit too full for my liking. I don't like all that whooping - I don't think it's necessary. Maybe I'm old fashioned.

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:14 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:England's pack were certainly full of energy in the second half, sometimes a bit too full for my liking. I don't like all that whooping - I don't think it's necessary. Maybe I'm old fashioned.

I'd agree. Itoje was loud. But I guess it was all about getting under their skin.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:18 pm

You gave them a taste of their own medicine in that respect.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:23 pm

Been on the Green & Gold Rugby forum this morning to get the Australian's perspective of the game. Through the standard bickering and sore-loser attitude, it is pretty clear they were all blown away by Itoje's performance.

It's often easy as an England fan to overlook just how good he has been in his 5 caps. Especially so during a game, when tensions and nerves are high- I can't focus on anything other the ball. The lad is incredible.

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:30 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:Been on the Green & Gold Rugby forum this morning to get the Australian's perspective of the game. Through the standard bickering and sore-loser attitude, it is pretty clear they were all blown away by Itoje's performance.

It's often easy as an England fan to overlook just how good he has been in his 5 caps. Especially so during a game, when tensions and nerves are high- I can't focus on anything other the ball. The lad is incredible.

Yeah the 'how good is he going to be when he grows up' and 'I'd give anything to have him line up for (Australia) for the next 10 years' quotes come to mind.

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Post by englandglory4ever on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:31 pm

Scottrf wrote:There were a few people on G&GR that seemed to think England's win didn't really count because there were a lot of penalties. It's a bit pathetic.

Pure Australian Gold. Next they will be saying we didn't really win because our kicker was too good and kicked too many penalties. Its not fair those nasty poms coming here and beating our lovely Australian side. Its just not fair. Its our ball too.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:38 pm

lostinwales wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:Been on the Green & Gold Rugby forum this morning to get the Australian's perspective of the game. Through the standard bickering and sore-loser attitude, it is pretty clear they were all blown away by Itoje's performance.

It's often easy as an England fan to overlook just how good he has been in his 5 caps. Especially so during a game, when tensions and nerves are high- I can't focus on anything other the ball. The lad is incredible.

Yeah the 'how good is he going to be when he grows up' and  'I'd give anything to have him line up for (Australia) for the next 10 years' quotes come to mind.

Yep! Puts a big old smile on my face.

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Post by Barney McGrew did it on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 3:48 pm

I larf at the oppo that moan about losing due to penalty points – either cuz they’re ignorant of the game (it’s always fun to laugh at a fool) or because they’re sore losers (even funnier). It's good winning that way because it’s a kick in the slats for a team that is hell bent on cheating in order to stop the opposition scoring more ‘entertaining’ tries. And crossing half the world to put 3 tries on Aus in their backyard seems good enough to me anyway. The cream on the cake is the irony that it’s normally England on the wrong side of the penalty count these days.
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Post by lostinwales on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 5:17 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:Been on the Green & Gold Rugby forum this morning to get the Australian's perspective of the game. Through the standard bickering and sore-loser attitude, it is pretty clear they were all blown away by Itoje's performance.

It's often easy as an England fan to overlook just how good he has been in his 5 caps. Especially so during a game, when tensions and nerves are high- I can't focus on anything other the ball. The lad is incredible.

Yeah the 'how good is he going to be when he grows up' and  'I'd give anything to have him line up for (Australia) for the next 10 years' quotes come to mind.

Yep! Puts a big old smile on my face.

There are some pretty good comments amongst the funny stuff though

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Post by Notch on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 5:25 pm

Just catching up on the rugby news- pretty astonishing comments from this guy Stephen Hoiles?!

Getting homophobic, being a sore loser, and literally comparing todger sizes- he is the winner of 'Rugby Lad Bingo' this week, thats incredible. What a helmet!

Kind of hope England stuff 'em in the second test now Whistle
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Post by nathan on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 7:55 pm

I think the Aussies sometimes take their banter a bit too far. Just like the radio presenters prank that ended in a nurse taking there own life.

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Post by Alex_Germany on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 8:12 pm

Perhaps it comes from not having a football team to speak of. All the idiots end up commentating on the rugby.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 9:31 pm

Personally I think if we can in this next test it will be a much better result as I expect the Aussies to come out all guns blazing. We'll have to be ready for that. And lets not forget that 1st 20 mins when they were on fire.

What was peoples thoughts on Mako?

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Post by Not grey and not a ghost on Mon 13 Jun 2016, 11:01 pm

I think the media banter point is interesting. I'd say it's par for the course when teams tour Australia and England in particular. Don't get me wrong there's banter everywhere, anyone touring NZ has to put up with Rattue (any Welsh fans feel free to take him with you). But allegations of illegal play go with the territory if your in Sydney or London. I think it's endemic rather than an organised attempt to destabilise. In this case for instance Super rugby/rugby championship has had a real effort to get get rid of boring in by props, so it stands out when we see it (most tours). This is no doubt off set by other practices that northern fans see SH teams do.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 1:17 am

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/series-over-for-hunt/

Karmichael Hunt won't be an option this series. On the other hand, Simmons might be back to run the lineout, while Horne also might be clear for the weekend, and he's regarded as a defensive organiser.

I hope we can figure out just why it is we seem to let teams back into games when we should be looking to put them away.

It happened under Lancaster, most notoriously against Wales in the World Cup, but also in that late loss against France in 2014. It's now happened in two games under Jones - Wales during the 6N, and Australia at the weekend.

Under Lancaster, you might blame his disruptive substitutions but a lot of it was exhausted players not thinking clearly at the end of a hard game. Jones thinks he made a mistake with his substitutions against Wales, however we don't really have that excuse against Australia.

It all started to go out of kilter during Sio's ten minute sin bin, which was in the 53rd minute. It started off well enough, as Farrell made it 13-29 with a penalty. Then, however, Hooper got his try to make it 18-29. That's still a healthy lead, but it got their tails up for the final quarter.

I thought we might have called a scrum for the yellow card to force the Wallabies to bring a prop on - probably for Hooper. Still, even without that tactic, it was disappointing to give away a try when we had a man advantage.

Jones is given credit for hooking Burrell early to tighten our defence, yet Australia still scored two tries against our new alignment, and one was finally close enough to the posts that even Foley couldn't miss the conversion.

Whatever we do in the second Test, we have to figure out what part of our defence was going awry to allow so many breaches.

If Australia don't give away so many penalties, and Foley hits better kicking form, then we won't have the points cushion to survive giving away four tries.

Unless, of course, we score more ourselves. Mike Brown may be our most solid full back defensively but it's a long time since he's run a good attacking line, or had the pace to finish a move. Folau, Williams and Payne all looked more dangerous and a great catch by Ben Smith set up one of Naholo's tries.

If Ford and Farrell are to start, then I think there is a case for trying Watson, Nowell and Yarde in the back three, so there are more attacking targets for our playmakers. The Wallabies will be working on putting right what they got wrong in the last match, so posing new threats could be the best strategy in the next.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 11:48 am

I feel that Aus will be much improved and will win the second test by about 10 points, leaving all to play for in the 3rd - where like the Lions in 2013 we unleash our full attacking potential.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:06 pm

C'mon guys, lets talk about next weekend rather than bicker about historical crimes. Abandon the 1st test thread - come here.

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Post by Alex_Germany on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:11 pm

Changes to England:

- Ford and Flood Farrell to start.
- Bench: Teo, to change style to a bash it up the middle, or Slade, as we know a bash it up the middle doesn't work (without Tuilagi).
- Bench: Did Lawes bring much. Good player, but I'd rather see Clifford.

Edit: Meant Farrell. I saw Flood play for Toulouse against Oyannax. Bizarrely, he was a sub, and the Toulouse penalty kicker managed to make Ford look like the world's best kicker.


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Post by rozakthegoon on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:12 pm

Blimey the oz press whinge a lot!

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Post by Scottrf on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:15 pm

Alex_Germany wrote:Changes to England:

- Ford and Flood to start.
Bit left field!

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:16 pm

Can't wait for Saturday, lifes good being an England supporter again.
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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 12:17 pm

Question- Is Farrell World Class?

I have a feeling if he was from another home nation that plays in red, he would be.
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Post by Poorfour on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 1:09 pm

Surely what Eddie has achieved in the last 7 matches is a pretty good evidence that "world class" is largely bunk. With the exception of Itoje (who might, in time, be one of the very few players who deserves to be called world class), the players he's using are the same ones available to Lancaster.

But the results are strikingly different, and the change when Ford came on for Burrell was a pretty good indicator of how much of that was down to having a team playing an effective system as a team.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 1:12 pm

We really need to start better this game, that's for sure! No Pocock is a plus. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw Watson drop back to full back and Nowell and Yarde come in either.

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Post by Alex_Germany on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 1:30 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Question- Is Farrell World Class?

I have a feeling if he was from another home nation that plays in red, he would be.

I think he's a world class No 10. At 12, he's merely England's best choice at the moment.

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Post by SimonofSurrey on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 1:41 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Alex_Germany wrote:Changes to England:

- Ford and Flood to start.
Bit left field!

I agree. If that's Toby Flood at 12, then probably better to have more experience alongside him at 10 to steady things - maybe Rob Andrew? Laugh Laugh Laugh

More seriously, the growing groundswell of support for a back three of Watson-Nowell-Yarde probably means EJ will stick with Brown, on the grounds that Oz probably would rather we did something fundamentally different = potentially risky. Presumably the unlucky one of the other three (Nowell again?) will make the bench as a very dangerous replacement. Indeed, the game may swing on who is on our bench. We have plenty of - almost too many - interesting and varied options, especially in the backs. The key will be to choose the right personnel then bring them on at the right time.

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 2:02 pm

Alex_Germany wrote:Changes to England:

- Ford and Flood to start.
- Bench: Teo, to change style to a bash it up the middle, or Slade, as we know a bash it up the middle doesn't work (without Tuilagi).
- Bench: Did Lawes bring much. Good player, but I'd rather see Clifford.

Edit: Meant Farrell. I saw Flood play for Toulouse against Oyannax. Bizarrely, he was a sub, and the Toulouse penalty kicker managed to make Ford look like the world's best kicker.

We need to start Big Phil Vickery too.
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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 14 Jun 2016, 2:03 pm

And Andy Sheridan, with Simon Shaw behind him?

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