England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

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England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by LondonTiger on Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:05 am

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Location:

Old Trafford (Manchester)


Date:

22nd to 26th July 2016


Officials:

Match Umpires: Rod Tucker (Aus), Kumar Dharmasena (SL)
3rd Umpire: Joel Wilson (WI)
Referee: Richie Richardson (WI)



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TV Live: Sky Sports 2 from 10am daily.
TV Highlights: 1 hour shou Channel 5 20:00 daily. 2 hour show Sky Sports various times and channels
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Teams:

England:
Alastair Cook (capt), Alex Hales, Joe Root, James Vince, Gary Ballance, Ben Stokes, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Moeen Ali, Chris Woakes, Stuart Broad, James Anderson


Pakistan:
Mohammad Hafeez, Shan Masood, Azhar Ali, Younus Khan, Misbah-ul-Haq (capt), Asad Shafiq, Sarfraz Ahmed (wk), Wahab Riaz, Mohammad Amir, Rahat Ali, Yasir Shah.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:55 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Finn and Ball removed)

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:05 am

Fifty for the skipper as England start brightly...

Expect them to bat no more than an hour - run the fielders around etc ...taken from the Steve Waugh playbook Smile

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:11 am

I'd give Root and Cook the chance to make a ton each.

No rush after all. Could declare at stumps and still triumph.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:15 am

I reckon Cook batted again because he wanted another chance to push his ODI credentials after a not wholly convincing effort earlier in the summer against SL Wink

Meh. It's unlikely to make much difference as others have said, so not something I'm going to get too hung up about one way or the other. Worth pointing out that England have apparently enforced the follow-on on 4 out of 8 occasions in the last five years (when they've had the opportunity).

Off the top of my head.

Not enforced: vs Australia at Lords in 2013, where Root went on to make 180 in the second innings. England won comfortably in the extra half-hour on day 4. More time left in the game when England did bat again, though situation at the start of day 4 fairly similar to this game.
vs NZ also in 2013 (I think). Compton's last Test in his first stint. A lot of debate on here around that one because the rain nearly did it for England, but they found enough time to force the win on the day 5 afternoon.

Enforced: two Tests vs SL this summer. Won both.
second Test on a NZ tour a few years back - the one that ended 0-0 with Prior's heroic rearguard century to save the final Test. On a flat pitch Broad bowled superbly to give England the option, and with time running out they had no real choice but to enforce. The flat pitch won though, and NZ saved the Test.

Can't remember the other occasions. Obviously limited sample size, but England do seem to get it about right with their declarations in the third innings in such cases.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:15 am

Duty281 wrote:I'd give Root and Cook the chance to make a ton each.

No rush after all. Could declare at stumps and still triumph.

Maybe but not before meltdown on every cricket forum. Smile

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:20 am

Joe Root's test batting average nearing 56!

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:21 am

Well Root's enjoying himself at least. Very Happy

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:25 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I'd give Root and Cook the chance to make a ton each.

No rush after all. Could declare at stumps and still triumph.

Maybe but not before meltdown on every cricket forum. Smile


Well there's no rain forecast in the Manchester area until Thursday, so weather is unlikely to be an issue.


Still feel England are just wasting time though...or indulging in some stat padding.

Just put Pakistan in already and lets start getting at their batting. This is just completely pointless IMO. They're not proving anything other than they can pile up runs against a demoralised bowling attack.


Feel quite the opposite to what Duty said. If England bat all day they're going to look very stupid if Pakistan manage to hold out for a day...
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:27 am

The ease with which Cook and Root are scoring here isn't necessarily a good sign.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:29 am

Pakistan have about as much chance of batting out 90 overs in the second innings as I do of scoring a Test hundred.

This is brilliant from England. Toying with the opposition before finishing them off - brutally eradicating any confidence that Pakistan might have gained after the Test at Lord's.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:30 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The ease with which Cook and Root are scoring here isn't necessarily a good sign.

More to do with the fact that Pakistan are resigned to their fate and are merely going through the motions.

Not to mention the enduring class of Cook and Root.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:30 am

Another fifty for young Joe clap

Though probably not one of his most difficult...guess he is entitled to some cheap runs for a change.

Not wasting time this morning , are they ? 52 in half an hour...

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by lostinwales on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:30 am

I think its also a question of putting more wear and tear into the pitch and on keeping Pakistan running around the field rather than sitting with their feet up. We'll see I guess

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:32 am

They aren't going to bat all day !!! Or anything like it... This is just grinding Pakistan down before throwing them back in...Mental disintegration , Australia called it.

It might not be pretty - but it tends to work.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:34 am

alfie wrote:They aren't going to bat all day !!!  Or anything like it... This is just grinding Pakistan down before throwing them back in...Mental disintegration , Australia called it.

It might not be pretty  - but it tends to work.

Agreed. England aren't just going to beat Pakistan: they're going to annihilate them.

But I honestly wouldn't declare until tea. Root can get another double ton at this rate!

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:34 am

This is boring though.

The match is over as a contest and I don't particularly care to watch England having some extended batting practice.

Beating sides in 3-4 days can have the same effect as scoring for fun off their bowling.


Last edited by dyrewolfe on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:37 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:35 am

A few balls have certainly spun sharply, which suggests the pitch is deteriorating a bit. I know these are easy runs, but the way Root is toying with the field here is lovely to watch. Very Happy

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:38 am

Root's average has (for now) crossed 56!

Insane reverse hit.


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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:39 am

Don't think I've ever seen Root play a genuine switch hit before Very Happy

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:40 am

And that's that. England reckon 40 minutes of grind is enough, Cook drives inside out for four through the covers and marches off. Pakistan need a notional 565 to win.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:40 am

Think Hales' time must be up - can't even get runs when England are in a dominant position.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
And that's that. England reckon 40 minutes of grind is enough, Cook drives inside out for four through the covers and marches off. Pakistan need a notional 565 to win.


Thats more like it! Pakistan won't survive over a day and a half.


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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:40 am

There's the declaration.

Too aggressive, Cooky. Very Happy

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:44 am

In all seriousness, a Pakistan win is more likely than the draw.

565 off 185 overs = Well under 3 and a half runs an over.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by KP_fan on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:45 am

Cook Feels comfortable defending 565....way to go laughing

however by Cook Logic--->what if they bat the remaining 180 overs @ 3.25......they will still get their with 6 overs to spare Rolling Eyes
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:46 am

Duty281 wrote:There's the declaration.

Too aggressive, Cooky. Very Happy


Perfect I'd say. Give them an awkward hour or so before lunch.

More psychological warfare from the skipper.


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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:48 am

Duty281 wrote:In all seriousness, a Pakistan win is more likely than the draw.

565 off 185 overs = Well under 3 and a half runs an over.


Trebs, is that you? Have you somehow hacked Duty's account? laughing


If Pakistan somehow manage that I'll buy you a new cricket bat (I heard you had a bit of a mishap with your last one). Wink


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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:49 am

Id have batted until they both got their centuries
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:53 am

dyrewolfe wrote:
Duty281 wrote:In all seriousness, a Pakistan win is more likely than the draw.

565 off 185 overs = Well under 3 and a half runs an over.


Trebs, is that you? Have you somehow hacked Duty's account? laughing


If Pakistan somehow manage that I'll buy you a new cricket bat (I heard you had a bit of a mishap with your last one). Wink

Well an England win is about a 99.9% probability. A Pakistan win about 0.06%. A draw 0.04%.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:53 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Id have batted until they both got their centuries

Meh. If it was Hales/Vince then yes, but Cook and Root don't need the extra confidence or sense of belonging, especially after already scoring centuries in the first innings. To bat on here would have been a pursuit of the statistic for statistics sake. It's also not as if they were in the 90s...

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:54 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Id have batted until they both got their centuries

Does seem odd to go that far and then not hang around for an extra 30 minutes for them both to get another century.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:56 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Id have batted until they both got their centuries


Maybe Cookie wanted to make sure Root was still sharp for his slip fielding. Wink
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:12 pm

7/1, bowled Anderson, caught Cook.

Sooooo simple.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:12 pm

So Anderson gets Masood again, making it six from six times that he has dismissed the Pakistani opener when the pair have faced off.

The record is eight straight dismissals, anyone care to have a guess at who's involved?

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by alfie on Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:15 pm

Didn't take Jimmy long to collect his pet rabbit.

Azhar can bat. Time he showed it. If England can get at Younus and Misbah this morning they will be very keen...

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dummy_half on Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:25 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:So Anderson gets Masood again, making it six from six times that he has dismissed the Pakistani opener when the pair have faced off.

The record is eight straight dismissals, anyone care to have a guess at who's involved?

Wasn't it Jimmy and Gaultum Ghambir?

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:28 pm

Duty281 wrote:7/1, bowled Anderson, caught Cook.

Sooooo simple.


This could be all over today. Jimmy gets Azhar lbw for just 8 and Pakistan are 25-2.

The signs are ominous...
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:45 pm

dummy_half wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:So Anderson gets Masood again, making it six from six times that he has dismissed the Pakistani opener when the pair have faced off.

The record is eight straight dismissals, anyone care to have a guess at who's involved?

Wasn't it Jimmy and Gaultum Ghambir?

Nope, it involves an Australian and a South African.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:51 pm

Warne and Cullinan?

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by VTR on Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:54 pm

Warne and Cullinan?

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Gooseberry on Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:15 pm

Im going to remark on Ali ...whats the obsession with 1 over of spin before a break?


Pakistan seem to have decided that attack is the best form of defence, presumably hoping to con England into setting defensive fields.

If we are going to find an arbitrary reason to critisize england in a game they are winning by a mile though surely it would be not bowling Woakes yet, the Pakistanis seem to have a collective fear of him.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:17 pm

If England get Younis Khan out in the first half-hour after lunch, this game will probably be over by the end of Day 4.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:22 pm

Duty281 wrote:If England get Younis Khan out in the first half-hour after lunch, this game will probably be over by the end of Day 4.

You could be right there, Duty. Pakistan really needed to get to stumps tonight only 2 down, not lunch today.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Gooseberry on Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:13 pm

Stokes injured...well maybe they shouldve let him have a longer rest after all.

Ali seems remarkably easy to score off...puts a differnet complexion on things. It sreally is time for him to prove he is the best spinner available to England.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by VTR on Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:30 pm

Is Moeen the best "bad" bowler in Test history? Bowls some absolute tripe but has an amazing ability to take top order wickets. Like a spin bowling Devon Malcolm

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by guildfordbat on Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:43 pm

VTR wrote:Is Moeen the best "bad" bowler in Test history? Bowls some absolute tripe but has an amazing ability to take top order wickets. Like a spin bowling Devon Malcolm

That's really what I was getting at earlier. Certainly not a classically great spinner but he now has over 70 Test scalps and three times as many wickets in this match as Yasir Shah. I view that as effective and pretty remarkable, even more so that he's shut Gooseberry up for half an hour. Smile

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:48 pm

VTR wrote:Is Moeen the best "bad" bowler in Test history? Bowls some absolute tripe but has an amazing ability to take top order wickets. Like a spin bowling Devon Malcolm
And another dismissal for Moeen Ali! Very Happy  Sounds like a bit of a swipe and hope from Younus, whose career seems to be fizzling out rather sadly....

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:49 pm

VTR wrote:Warne and Cullinan?

Nope, it's actually Warne and Ashwell Prince. Fuller list here
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/jul/24/england-jimmy-anderson-shan-masood-pakistan-bunny-cricket
The slightly remarkable one there is Emburey dismissing Richie Richardson SEVEN times in a row.

Ali's bowling quite nicely here, the pitch definitely doing more for him than the previous Test, though that's a bit of a shocker from Younus, who was actually looking better since being (badly) dropped. I understand the intent, with England down to four bowlers Pakistan would love to knock Moeen out of the attack, but pretty awful execution.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by Duty281 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:50 pm

The worse that Moeen bowls, the more productive that he is.

Four down. Still 55 overs left today.

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by GSC on Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:51 pm

Ali has a lovely lack of getting top order batsman to underestimate him
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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by dummy_half on Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:58 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
dummy_half wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:So Anderson gets Masood again, making it six from six times that he has dismissed the Pakistani opener when the pair have faced off.

The record is eight straight dismissals, anyone care to have a guess at who's involved?

Wasn't it Jimmy and Gaultum Ghambir?

Nope, it involves an Australian and a South African.

Another less serious guess would be Inzamam Ul-Haq and run out... Wink

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

Post by VTR on Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:01 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
VTR wrote:Is Moeen the best "bad" bowler in Test history? Bowls some absolute tripe but has an amazing ability to take top order wickets. Like a spin bowling Devon Malcolm

That's really what I was getting at earlier. Certainly not a classically great spinner but he now has over 70 Test scalps and three times as many wickets in this match as Yasir Shah. I view that as effective and pretty remarkable, even more so that he's shut Gooseberry up for half an hour. Smile

He is a very strange bowler - if you looked at his stats you would assume he was a legspinner. The question I suppose is whether there is a spinner out there who could keep it tight and take wickets as we don't really need his batting

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Re: England v Pakistan: 2nd Test,

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