Most overrated current international player.

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Post by Maine man on Wed 30 Nov 2016, 9:50 pm

Just a bit of fun. Who do people think is the most overrated player currently. For me it's Will Skelton. Just don't see what he adds to the aussie team.

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Post by monty junior on Wed 30 Nov 2016, 9:59 pm

Halfpenny.

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Post by Guest on Wed 30 Nov 2016, 10:19 pm

Alun Wyn Jones. Everyone thinks it's Alun Wyn Jones!

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Post by Guest on Wed 30 Nov 2016, 10:20 pm

monty junior wrote:Halfpenny.

I largely agree. Not sure he's the most. But he's up there.

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Post by Cardiff Dave on Wed 30 Nov 2016, 10:39 pm

Toxteth O'Grady, USA.

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Post by Gwlad on Wed 30 Nov 2016, 11:23 pm

Owen Farrell

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Post by Fanster on Wed 30 Nov 2016, 11:44 pm

It's an interesting question, for fun...

Wales: Halfpenny and JD2 have been largely dissapointing despite large reputations

England: May is still renowned but headless

Scotland: Finn Russell, they love him, but he's pretty average (although outside of Scotland he isn't particularly loved)

Ireland: Zebo, simply Zebo. He's like the guy from Indiana Jones, dancing around, impressively twirling the swords, but is undone easily.

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Post by Exiledinborders on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 12:13 am

Gwlad wrote:Owen Farrell
I would suggest he is the most underrated.

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Post by Exiledinborders on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 12:14 am

Fanster wrote:It's an interesting question, for fun...

Wales: Halfpenny and JD2 have been largely dissapointing despite large reputations

England: May is still renowned but headless

Scotland: Finn Russell, they love him, but he's pretty average (although outside of Scotland he isn't particularly loved)

Ireland: Zebo, simply Zebo. He's like the guy from Indiana Jones, dancing around, impressively twirling the swords, but is undone easily.
Halfpenny certainly. I am not sure JD2 is overrated. I have not seen much evidence that even Welsh fans rate him.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 2:50 am

These days... Sergio Parrisse

A few years ago he was an incredible player, one of the most influential in the world and wonderful to watch.

More recently it's more tantrums and avoiding the primary duties of a back row forward.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:48 am

It as to be Sam Warburton. Gatland's sweatheart, mr undrppable, mr Wales ( First player to sign dual contracts ) All ways gets picked either on form or not. If not on form some excuse is made ( sam picked up a stinger ) in training.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:49 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:Toxteth O'Grady, USA.

He also has the stickiest bogies

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Post by rainbow-warrior on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 5:16 am

any one of 1 - 23 of the english oh and eddie the pixie
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Post by Breadvan on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 5:58 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:any one of 1 - 23 of the english oh and eddie the pixie

What a shocker...
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Post by offload on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 7:17 am

This thread will produce a non partisan, mature discussion about an unfortunate international who is perhaps not performing quite as well as some would hope. Good idea.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 8:12 am

Strange one for England and there's a general cynicism to many players after years of mediocre performance. It's normally whoever isn't in the team though, amazing how good some players get when you're watching someone else knock on! Having said that I'm going to go for Mako from the point of view of the media.Still think he's a excellent player but he's being made out by sections as the best prop in the world/world class...yes outside of teh scrum there's few better, especially running with the ball, offloads, passing etc however I still think he's being owned too many times in the scrum to be in that bracket. Hard though as there's an awful lot of people who would under rate the guy!

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 8:16 am

AWJ by a distance for me.

For England, it's currently Mako. An apparent WC prop, who's a largely average scrummager.

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Post by reallybored on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 8:38 am

Wales - AW Jones
England - Ford
Ireland - Payne
Scotland - Hardie

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Post by RDW on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 8:53 am

Fanster wrote:

Scotland: Finn Russell, they love him, but he's pretty average (although outside of Scotland he isn't particularly loved)

The thing is, you've got to remember that since our last great 10 - Gregor Townsend - we have been stuck with some rank average players  throughout the 6N era:

Duncan Hodge
Dan Parks
Phil Godman
Duncan Weir

To name a few.   Finn has faults certainly but he also plays with tremendous swagger, confidence and a whole lot of skill - his chip over the top for Huw Jones' try against Australia recently a prime example.

He undoubtedly needs to improve his game management and tactical kicking game but that will come with time. Having only just turned 24 he's got plenty time on his hands.

He's very unlikely to be on Warren Gatland's radar next summer but he's comfortably our best 10 for a generation - noting that such an accolade isn't something to write home about!

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Post by dummy_half on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 9:18 am

Agree with the comments on Parisse - living on past glories somewhat.

Alun-Wyn Jones is an interesting one, as he seems a bit of a marmite player. I don't see what all the hype is about but a decent proportion do.

As for England, I'd go with Dan Cole - hasn't been a top scrummager since the neck injury and is a bit of a penalty and yellow card magnet, yet still some consider him world class.

Otherwise with England I don't think it's about over-rated but some players I just find frustrating - Lawes because for all his physical attributes he's rubbish at holding on to the ball in contact, and Brown because of the number of times he makes an incisive break and then either fails to pass or throws a wild pass that misses his support player.

Of course if you want to talk about under-rated, you start and end the list with Robshaw...


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Post by dummy_half on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 9:22 am

Oh, and RDW makes an interesting point in that how we perceive some players may depend rather on who has come before. Undoubtedly Finn Russell is the first reasonable international standard 10 that Scotland have had for quite some time, and this means that some in the media and supporters portray him as even better than he really is. Conversely, I think England's post RWC 03 squad had a few guys that were underrated (back row of Moodie, Worsley and Corry in particular) because what had gone before was exceptional

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Post by marty2086 on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 9:23 am

reallybored wrote:
Ireland - Payne

Laugh

Really?

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Post by Majestic83 on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 9:46 am

Ireland keith earls, Devin Toner

Wales Leigh Halfpenny, Jamie Roberts

England George Ford, James Haskell

Scotland Ryan Wilson, Greig Laidlaw

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 9:46 am

AWJ. He is a very good lock with no obvious weaknesses. Personally I don't think he is as good as some of the competition in the north, but he is a very important part of the Welsh pack and a leader. He is a big deal for Wales and it is perfectly natural that they may have a different opinion on him than everyone else.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:01 am

Beauden Barrett - is he really the best player in the world?
Juan-Martin Hernandez - has he ever been as good as pundits claim?
Maro Itoje - not the second messiah just yet.
CJ Stander - see Itoje
Jonny Gray - see Itoje/Stander
Sergio Parisse - watch the commentators fawn over him come 6Ns
Lee Halfpenny - has been living off his goalkicking and 40 magical minutes for the Lions for too long
Wesley Fofana - still seems to be more potential than actual realised talent


To be over-rated, you have to at least be rated, which generally means that the contenders for such a title will usually be pretty good players, just not quite as good as the hype.



Note - I was struggling to find a single Saffer who is currently rated.

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Post by rapidsnowman on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:05 am

Majestic83 wrote:Ireland keith earls, Devin Toner

Hmm chin
It's all about perception - you see, I think Toner is probably underrated.
He's gangly doesn't look 'hard' and isn't obvious for his ball carrying ability. But yet he does a job for Ireland very effectively.

I've never heard many people raving about him!

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:09 am

rapidsnowman wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Ireland keith earls, Devin Toner

Hmm chin
It's all about perception - you see, I think Toner is probably underrated.
He's gangly doesn't look 'hard' and isn't obvious for his ball carrying ability. But yet he does a job for Ireland very effectively.

I've never heard many people raving about him!

It also comes down to the individual performances we see (and our own prejudices). I can only remember seeing Toner in the Eng/Ire game from the last 6N and he wasn't good at all. I am not blind to the reports here and elsewhere of his other performances, but they don't match what I can remember.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:22 am

Phil Vickery

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Post by ebop on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:23 am

LondonTiger wrote:Beauden Barrett - is he really the best player in the world?
The England coach thinks Barrett is over rated

He reckons George Ford is better and thus the best in the world

Can someone remind me who George Ford is?
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Post by MacKnocked-on on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:26 am

Majestic83 wrote:Ireland keith earls, Devin Toner

Wales Leigh Halfpenny, Jamie Roberts

England George Ford, James Haskell

Scotland Ryan Wilson, Greig Laidlaw

You can't be overrated if you're not rated in the first place. Agree with Jamie Roberts, never thought he was that great.

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Post by chewed_mintie on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:27 am

ebop wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Beauden Barrett - is he really the best player in the world?
The England coach thinks Barrett is over rated

He reckons George Ford is better and thus the best in the world

Can someone remind me who George Ford is?

Proper "lolz"

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Post by chewed_mintie on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:28 am

Michael Hooper - he's a grub.....and overrated

Love this:

https://www.facebook.com/BeastMoze1/videos/585391821652493/

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:33 am

ebop wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Beauden Barrett - is he really the best player in the world?
The England coach thinks Barrett is over rated

He reckons George Ford is better and thus the best in the world

Can someone remind me who George Ford is?

The current England fly half. You really are a fair weather rugby follower.

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Post by ebop on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:40 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
ebop wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Beauden Barrett - is he really the best player in the world?
The England coach thinks Barrett is over rated

He reckons George Ford is better and thus the best in the world

Can someone remind me who George Ford is?

The current England fly half. You really are a fair weather rugby follower.
Stop being so serious 7.5
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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:42 am

EJ is obviously just looking to wind up. Barrett has had a great year and Ford has been a been a bit up and down, he's a level up currently.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:44 am

Stopped taking you seriously already ebop!

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Post by ebop on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:45 am

Good for you buddy
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Post by Breadvan on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:52 am

Gooseberry wrote:Phil Vickery

It'll be black day for rugby when big Phil finally retires...
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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:58 am

Dan Biggar.
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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:58 am

Mike Brown.
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Post by IanBru on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:04 am

That guy at Twickenham with the St George's Cross Coat. It's a ridiculous situation - he keeps getting picked, waves a big flag, yet whenever kickoff comes along he's nowhere to be found. A bit like Alex Cuthbert.
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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:11 am

IanBru wrote:That guy at Twickenham with the St George's Cross Coat. It's a ridiculous situation - he keeps getting picked, waves a big flag, yet whenever kickoff comes along he's nowhere to be found. A bit like Alex Cuthbert.

Can't argue with that, who is this guy?

As for Cuthbert he can't be overrated as no one rates him (apart from Howley)
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Post by munkian on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:13 am

IanBru wrote:That guy at Twickenham with the St George's Cross Coat. It's a ridiculous situation - he keeps getting picked, waves a big flag, yet whenever kickoff comes along he's nowhere to be found. A bit like Alex Cuthbert.

Cuthbert will probably drinking as much as him soon too.
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Post by Barney McGrew did it on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:13 am

Stuart Barnes

And before you say he was never rated in the first place - he was the best player in the world, in his mind.

Still, he's made a very knowledgeable and likeable pundit.
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Post by ebop on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:14 am

TightHEAD wrote:Mike Brown.
At least Mike Brown rates himself even if no one else does
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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:16 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:any one of 1 - 23 of the english oh and eddie the pixie

picard

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:18 am

Do let me know when you are being serious ebop, as it's hard to tell whether these are supposed to be funny.

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Post by profitius on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:20 am

Luther Burrell. How did he get so many England caps.
Jon Davies and Jamie Roberts. They're not half as effective as they used to be and can't pass.
Leigh Halfpenny. Good kicker but thats all he seems to do.
Rob Kearney. Being talked about for the lions but does very little in attack.


I wouldn't say Barrett is overrated because he is tearing through teams every game! Best player in the world currently.
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Post by Cyril on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:21 am

Before the Chicago game: the NZ squad
After the Chicago game: the Ireland squad

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Post by ebop on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:21 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Do let me know when you are being serious ebop, as it's hard to tell whether these are supposed to be funny.
Very good 7.5

Keep em coming

Hug

It's true though right, Mike Brown thinks Mike Brown is awesome!
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