6N 2017: England vs Scotland

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ENGLAND v SCOTLAND
Saturday 10th March
16:00 GMT
Twickenham Stadium

Live on ITV, RTE, FR2, DMAX

Referee - Matthieu Raynal
AR1 - Romain Poite
AR2 - Marius Mitrea
TMO - Ben Skeen

A. Head to Head

134 Played 134
74 Won 42
18 Drawn 18
42 Lost 74
1,562 Points 1,141

B. Recent Form

6 February 2016
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 15 to England

14 March 2015
Twickenham, London
25 – 13 to England

8 February 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 20 to England

2 February 2013
Twickenham, London
38 – 18 to England

4 February 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 13 to England

C. Teams

ENGLAND


Starting XV:

15. Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 58 caps), 14. Jack Nowell  (Exeter Chiefs, 21 caps), 13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 31 caps), 12. Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 50 caps), 11. Elliot Daly (Wasps, 11 caps), 10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 33 caps), 9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 68 caps), 1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 49 caps), 2. Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 82 caps), 3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 72 caps), 4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 40 caps) , 5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 56 caps), 6. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 10 caps), 7. James Haskell (Wasps, 73 caps) , 8. Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 6 caps).

Finishers

16. Jamie George (Saracens, 15 caps), 17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 40 caps), 18. Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 6 caps), 19. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 48 caps), 20. Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens 32 caps), 21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 69 caps), 22. Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors, 6 caps), 23. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 24 caps).

SCOTLAND


Starting XV

15. Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; 16 tries, 3 pens, 89 points
14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 34 caps; 15 tries, 75 points
13. Huw Jones (Stormers) – 6 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
12. Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps; 6 tries, 30 points
11. Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 29 caps; 12 tries, 60 points
10. Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps; 2 tries, 5 cons, 8 pens, 44 points
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps

1. Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
2. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 23 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
4. Richie Gray (Toulouse) – 63 caps; 3 tries, 15 points
5. Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 31 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
6. John Barclay CAPTAIN (Scarlets) – 58 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 8 caps; 1 try, 5 points
8. Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps

Substitutes:
16. Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 105 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
17. Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – 6 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
19. Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 27 caps; 1 try, 5 points
20. Cornell Du Preez (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
21. Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps; 4 tries, 3 pens, 29 points
22. Duncan Weir (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps; 2 tries, 7 cons, 10 pens, 1 drop, 57 points
23. Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps; 6 tries, 30 points

SecretFly wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

I seriously doubt that England side have been playing possum in the first few games. I don't think Jones would risk such a r!sky tactic and I don't think the English players would go along with making such errors on purpose, even more with Mr Gatland watching on.

Their inaccuracies have been just that, inaccuracies. England have not played as well as they can in this tournament yet and I do worry that they may decide to do so this weekend. Mind you Scotland have left some points on the pitch over the last few weeks, and that is despite being very clinical with the possession we have had.

I'm cautious.  I've seen the ABs do it too often and it can be a ploy.  I'm not saying all mistakes are gimmicks, I'm saying the supposed struggles with rhythm, etc.  I'm just saying that's the difference in attitudes that you are proving.  I'm cautious about the 'misfiring' angle and you feel it's genuine.  I'd prefer going into a game being cautious of any wounded duck ploys that could potentially drag the coaches to concentrate on supposed weak areas.

I do think it's genuine. England haven't played as well as they can. That doesn't mean they will turn up on Saturday and click like a well oiled machine. They might, but then again they might not.

This isn't like the all blacks playing some mickey mouse team in a RWC pool, where they refrain from embarrassing them. This is the 6N, and believe me if England and Eddie Jones didn't go into the Italy game with the objective of abjectly humiliating them I'd call that out as nonsense. They would have wanted to go out there and put 80+ points on them if they could. A win is a win and a TBP win is all the sweeter. I seriously doubt that England held anything back from that game or all the others they have played in so far. In the 6N every game, point and now thanks to the rules every try matters too.

England will be running out on Saturday in front of a home crowd looking to tear Scotland a new one, and that is no different from any other game they will have played this 6N. I seriously doubt England's under performance so far has been deliberate.

Hammersmith Harrier nope he's just being unfairly overlooked just like Itoje was and hey presto when Itoje got picked to start he played well. If some posters had their way, Itoje wouldn't have been in the position to help defeat Wales last year.

Geordiefalcon I didn't watch the game but Saracens being over 20 points up and seemingly easing off when the game was won in the last 10 doesn't sound like edging it to me....or that either team could win.

no 7 & 1/2 seriously you are deluded. Your stupidity does frustrate me to be honest. Can see why kingelderfield was frustrated by you.

Poorfour can't know for sure if the coach can't be bothered to start players but Sinckler and George look in better shape than Hartley and Cole that's for sure.

If a coach puts players on pedestals then it damages the development of others.

It's all good though because England are winning.... right?


England aren't playing well simply because there are too many players not performing well enough. Jones should be making the changes but can't be bothered. Seriously he doesn't care. The lack of form doesn't seem to matter. Personally I don't think the form of players will suddenly improve.

You're just a broken record BS, I don't know why people bother.

Not heard of this ref I don't think? Guys?

Rugbyjk wrote:Not heard of this ref I don't think? Guys?

Reynal was the ref when Ireland beat NZ in Chicago and when Ireland beat SA in SA. Good ref.

Rugbyjk wrote:Not heard of this ref I don't think? Guys?

Well he reffed the debacle between Connacht and wasps in the ERC,

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/dec/18/connacht-wasps-european-rugby-champions-cup-mathieu-raynal

He also reffed Ireland vs The All Blacks in Chicago and Glasgow's demolition of the Tigers at Welford road.

So he's French / Irish?! Gawd, not another Alain Rolland? Nooooooooo!

Sgt Poorly people bother because even though I do have some repetitive but valid rants I generally add more to the thread than posters like you and are more knowledgeable.

Also I keep on topic more often than not.

I've got a lot of respect for the way Scotland have been playing in the tournament so far.

So pretty much hates anything English...Well played Scotland.

Shame don't get a good ref like Nigel Owens. Has he been given the week off?

beshocked wrote:Shame don't get a good ref like Nigel Owens. Has he been given the week off?

And on Brian Moore's podcast dropped the bombshell that the Calcutta Cup is the only Teir 1 international fixture that has eluded him.

It's a shame, I would have loved to see him ref this game because Owen's interpretation of the breakdown would have given Scotland an advantage.

beshocked wrote:Shame don't get a good ref like Nigel Owens. Has he been given the week off?

He was only given one Six Nations game this season - Ireland v France.

beshocked wrote:


cascough under Jones in this year's 6 nations, it's been the bench which has made the biggest impact. You can talk about last year if you want though.

Probably why Jones is picking certain players - still stuck in 2016.....

Now you see I think you have just merely reduced your sample size to try and lend credence to a point.

Looking at Jones' tenure, England are ahead a LOT going into the last 20. Which kind of suggests that his gameplan does not revolve around the bench, as was suggested.

Now, I'll indulge your ridiculously small sample size, but it's only relevant if we feel Eddie Jones has changed his game plan for this tournament. Are we seriously suggesting that Eddie Jones felt things would work better if we stopped doing so well in the first 60 and focused on winning the game in the last quarter instead? "Awww listen mate, things have been going too well, we get to the last 20 and we're always winning. It's not rugby. We need to be more exciting. We've got to get better. If we can make sure we don't get ahead until the last 20 it'll be 30% more exciting."

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

beshocked wrote:Shame don't get a good ref like Nigel Owens. Has he been given the week off?

And on Brian Moore's podcast dropped the bombshell that the Calcutta Cup is the sole Teir 1 clash is the one international fixture that has eluded him.

That's weird. It's not as if he has an English or Scottish father, plus his name is about as Welsh as you can get.

Unlike Alain Rolland....who was regularly given France games and regularly reffing French teams in the Heineken Cup.

Depends if there are rucks...

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Rugbyjk wrote:Not heard of this ref I don't think? Guys?

Well he reffed the debacle between Connacht and wasps in the ERC,

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/dec/18/connacht-wasps-european-rugby-champions-cup-mathieu-raynal

He also reffed Ireland vs The All Blacks in Chicago and Glasgow's demolition of the Tigers at Welford road.

Barclay better get practising his Jedi mind tricks!

From a totally unbiased perspective, I thought he reefed the Glasgow v Leicester game very well. I hope he lets the game flow in the same way.

Rugbyjk wrote:Depends if there are rucks...

I hope there are. It's one of Scotland's greatest strength is our work at the breakdown and using our very fast backrowers to produce quick ball from the said rucks to use our pace outwide.

I can only see Cotter using Venter's "Volpe" strategy as a trolling tool.

I meant England doing it to Scotland for precisely that reason. Won't happen though, that's not rugby after all lol.

beshocked wrote:Hammersmith Harrier nope he's just being unfairly overlooked just like Itoje was and hey presto when Itoje got picked to start he played well. If some posters had their way, Itoje wouldn't have been in the position to help defeat Wales last year.

Geordiefalcon I didn't watch the game but Saracens being over 20 points up and seemingly easing off when the game was won in the last 10 doesn't sound like edging it to me....or that either team could win.

no 7 & 1/2 seriously you are deluded. Your stupidity does frustrate me to be honest. Can see why kingelderfield was frustrated by you.

Poorfour can't know for sure if the coach can't be bothered to start players but Sinckler and George look in better shape than Hartley and Cole that's for sure.

If a coach puts players on pedestals then it damages the development of others.

It's all good though because England are winning.... right?


England aren't playing well simply because there are too many players not performing well enough. Jones should be making the changes but can't be bothered. Seriously he doesn't care. The lack of form doesn't seem to matter. Personally I don't think the form of players will suddenly improve.

Yes you would think that....

cascough the sample size is pretty crucial - it's the last 3 games.

Yes if you look at his tenure overall, true but the last 3 games are of increasing importance because they are the most recent.

It's like saying Ireland stand no chance against NZ because they've only won once, yet Ireland won one of their last two games vs NZ and pushed them narrowly in others.

I am not saying the bench playing better is a gameplan - it's just a result of poor form by starters.

England were putting in better performances in 2016. The bench was important then too but the importance has increased as a result.

The strength in depth has become more important as a weapon used by England.

Also absentees in the starting XV and players coming back from injury, players being overlooked etc has lead to the bench being stronger than normal.

The likely bench vs Scotland is freakishly strong.

2017 starting XV is weaker than 2016 and the 2017 bench is stronger than 2016.

Geordiefalcon well taking off key players would be indicative of job done.



So the ref has taken part in two defeats of English clubs in the ERCC, doesn't bode particularly well.

beshocked wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

beshocked wrote:Shame don't get a good ref like Nigel Owens. Has he been given the week off?

And on Brian Moore's podcast dropped the bombshell that the Calcutta Cup is the sole Teir 1 clash is the one international fixture that has eluded him.

That's weird. It's not as if he has an English or Scottish father, plus his name is about as Welsh as you can get.

Unlike Alain Rolland....who was regularly given France games and regularly reffing French teams in the Heineken Cup.

or Wayne Barnes who always gets Ireland v Wales games despite going to school in Wales and growing up in Lydney which is about 10 miles from Wales.

beshocked wrote:cascough the sample size is pretty crucial - it's the last 3 games.

Yes if you look at his tenure overall, true but the last 3 games are of increasing importance because they are the most recent.

It's like saying Ireland stand no chance against NZ because they've only won once, yet Ireland won one of their last two games vs NZ and pushed them narrowly in others.

I am not saying the bench playing better is a gameplan - it's just a result of poor form by starters.

England were putting in better performances in 2016. The bench was important then too but the importance has increased as a result.

The strength in depth has become more important as a weapon used by England.

Also absentees in the starting XV and players coming back from injury, players being overlooked etc has lead to the bench being stronger than normal.

The likely bench vs Scotland is freakishly strong.

2017 starting XV is weaker than 2016 and the 2017 bench is stronger than 2016.

Geordiefalcon well taking off key players would be indicative of job done.



So the ref has taken part in two defeats of English clubs in the ERCC, doesn't bode particularly well.

Both teams made changes. We missed several clear cut chances. Trust me I was there. It wasn't a great spectacle and pretty even.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:or Wayne Barnes who always gets Ireland v Wales games despite going to school in Wales and growing up in Lydney which is about 10 miles from Wales.

So what? He's a professional. Blaming the ref before the game starts is poor form.

He isnt very professional in my opinion. Makes a lot of mistakes.

I am convinced that at the very least there is a subconscious bias at play against Ireland when Barnes refs.

Would Wayne Barnes be qualified to play for Wales?

I am sure if he had Welsh relatives, you know like a father you might have mentioned it? Also does he speak Welsh and have a Welsh name?

Geordiefalcon yes but when you are 22 points up, have secured the try bonus, it's natural to ease off. Missing several chances doesn't make things even. You don't get points for almost scoring a try or penalty. Just means you haven't been clinical enough or the opposition has shown sufficient resilience to hold you off.

By that logic Bristol almost beat Worcester because for long periods of the 2nd half they were close to the Worcester line.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:He isnt very professional in my opinion. Makes a lot of mistakes.

I rate Barnes quite highly, he's up there with Garces, Poite and Jones for me. Very consistent, seldom wrong and has good empathy for the game and it's players. I appreciate this is all relative but he hasn't exactly done a Joubert on us...

beshocked wrote:cascough the sample size is pretty crucial - it's the last 3 games.

Yes if you look at his tenure overall, true but the last 3 games are of increasing importance because they are the most recent.

It's like saying Ireland stand no chance against NZ because they've only won once, yet Ireland won one of their last two games vs NZ and pushed them narrowly in others.

I am not saying the bench playing better is a gameplan - it's just a result of poor form by starters.

England were putting in better performances in 2016. The bench was important then too but the importance has increased as a result.

The strength in depth has become more important as a weapon used by England.

Also absentees in the starting XV and players coming back from injury, players being overlooked etc has lead to the bench being stronger than normal.

The likely bench vs Scotland is freakishly strong.

2017 starting XV is weaker than 2016 and the 2017 bench is stronger than 2016.

Geordiefalcon well taking off key players would be indicative of job done.



So the ref has taken part in two defeats of English clubs in the ERCC, doesn't bode particularly well.

Using your logic, the last game is the most important, and we were winning in that one. So I'd like to use a sample size of 1 to show that Englands game plan isn't based around their replacements.

And as for the bold bit, then why are you responding??? I was saying that it isn't a gameplan, and I was responding to someone who said it was. So you've jumped in to argue with me, whilst disagreeing with them. Odd.

Barnes is the most controversial referee in world rugby. I don't think there has been a ref more controversial since Steve Walsh perhaps.

Players past and present have called him out and so have former coaches.

Here is Stephen Ferris on why Barnes is a terrible ref:

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/stephen-ferris-gives-more-detail-on-his-and-irelands-least-favourite-referee-323584

Graham Henry one of the most decorated coaches in world rugby suspected Barnes of match fixing:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7370102/Henry-suspected-match-fixing-after-07-loss

Even the current England captain called Barnes a cheat to his face:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10082571/Lions-2013-Dylan-Hartley-made-poor-judgment-in-swearing-at-referee-says-coach-Warren-Gatland.html

Even ball boys dont like him:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/leinster-ball-boy-who-got-yellow-card-from-ref-owens-delighted-it-wasnt-wayne-barnes-35504529.html

Barnes is a great ref, up there with the best on offer currently.

An Irish playing crying because Barnes booked him, and a Kiwi blaming someone else for a loss (no way). Hartley denies it was aimed at Barnes.

As a Saints fan I don't like him but you must have something better.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Barnes is a great ref, up there with the best on offer currently.

He is the worst ref around by some distance.

Scottrf wrote:An Irish playing crying because Barnes booked him, and a Kiwi blaming someone else for a loss (no way). Hartley denies it was aimed at Barnes.

As a Saints fan I don't like him but you must have something better.

Yes but everyone knows Hartley is a compulsive liar. Its pretty obvious it was aimed at Barnes.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Barnes is the most controversial referee in world rugby. I don't think there has been a ref more controversial since Steve Walsh perhaps.

Players past and present have called him out and so have former coaches.

Here is Stephen Ferris on why Barnes is a terrible ref:

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/stephen-ferris-gives-more-detail-on-his-and-irelands-least-favourite-referee-323584

Graham Henry one of the most decorated coaches in world rugby suspected Barnes of match fixing:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7370102/Henry-suspected-match-fixing-after-07-loss

Even the current England captain called Barnes a cheat to his face:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10082571/Lions-2013-Dylan-Hartley-made-poor-judgment-in-swearing-at-referee-says-coach-Warren-Gatland.html

As I said it's all relative. Craig Joubert was also widely considered to be one of the best refs in world rugby. However he has presided over 2 of the worst games for Scotland in recent memory.

This one was a disgraceful bore thanks to Jouberts officiating and has the record of the highest penalty count in a Teir 1 International fixture...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/21692234

the least said about our 2015 RWC exit the better. I always rated Barnes though.

What has a Barnes rant got to do with England vs Scotland? He's not the ref and won't ever ref England.

cascough yes England were just about winning vs the worst side in the tournament. 2nd in the world vs 14th. England should be proud. Starting XV should take all the credit.... The replacements did a lot of the damage.

Nowell scored 2 tries. He should have been starting but Jones oddly enough left him on the bench.

My point is that Jones hasn't purposely made the replacements winning the game in the last 10 as part of a gameplan but they've become crucial due to the reasons I've said.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:An Irish playing crying because Barnes booked him, and a Kiwi blaming someone else for a loss (no way). Hartley denies it was aimed at Barnes.

As a Saints fan I don't like him but you must have something better.

Yes but everyone knows Hartley is a compulsive liar. Its pretty obvious it was aimed at Barnes.

I personally thought it pretty obvious it was aimed at Youngs but each to their own.

Scottrf wrote:An Irish playing crying because Barnes booked him, and a Kiwi blaming someone else for a loss (no way). Hartley denies it was aimed at Barnes.

As a Saints fan I don't like him but you must have something better.

How often have world cup coaches accused a ref of match fixing? Barnes is the only one I can think of.

Ferris was also complaining that Barnes wouldn't let him leave the field despite his finger hanging off.

Ferris' only international yellow gifted Wales a penalty to win the fixture in 2012. The citing committee ruled afterwards that it should not have even been a penalty.

Absolutely terrible referee.

Onto the ref we will have on Saturday, I'm glad he saw and let Glasgow play at full pelt and saw that prison shaming at Welford Road.

He'll be well used to the pace and intensity Glasgow and by extension Scotland will play with and knows what to expect.

In response to this I expect the huge English pack to try an negate that sort of game plan at source by trying to hold players up and try and maul us off the park.

beshocked wrote:Would Wayne Barnes be qualified to play for Wales?

I am sure if he had Welsh relatives, you know like a father you might have mentioned it? Also does he speak Welsh and have a Welsh name?

Geordiefalcon yes but when you are 22 points up, have secured the try bonus, it's natural to ease off. Missing several chances doesn't make things even. You don't get points for almost scoring a try or penalty. Just means you haven't been clinical enough or the opposition has shown sufficient resilience to hold you off.

By that logic Bristol almost beat Worcester because for long periods of the 2nd half they were close to the Worcester line.

Nee bother. Just as well you didn't watch the game...

Seems like a very inexperienced ref. Doesn't seem like a good choice to me at all.

Geordiefalcon no matter how you spin it - 8 points isn't close, scoring 2 consolation tries when the game is won doesn't suggest it either.

It happens in so many games, when a team eases off, another team can come back, saving players for more challenges ahead, no harm done, no bonus points conceded.

I don't mind if you want to claim the moral victory though. I know you Newcastle fans still hark back to Robinson's moral victory....I was better....honest......

beshocked wrote:
England aren't playing well simply because there are too many players not performing well enough. Jones should be making the changes but can't be bothered. Seriously he doesn't care. The lack of form doesn't seem to matter. Personally I don't think the form of players will suddenly improve.

I fully agree with this statement, except re Jones not caring. I think he just thinks the alternatives are not any better. Too many forwards no where near their best. Marler (fractured leg), Hartley (injuries and suspension), Cole (past it and frankly I have never really rated him). Plus we have missed Billy and Mako and possibly Robshaw.

England have been vulnerable in this 6Ns and there for the taking. As players get more game time and return from injury England get stronger, but I would not be surprised to see a first Scotland win at Twickers since colour TV was invented.

My stupidity beshocked? Which part do you disagree with exactly?

And then I get to your points that Jones hasn't developed players, can't be bothered and doesn't care....Dear me.

Youve got to admire how BS constantly forms opinions on games hes not seem, its quite a talent.

Wow and I thought the Irish fans were bad at tearing lumps out of each other

beshocked wrote:What has a Barnes rant got to do with England vs Scotland? He's not the ref and won't ever ref England.

cascough yes England were just about winning vs the worst side in the tournament. 2nd in the world vs 14th. England should be proud. Starting XV should take all the credit.... The replacements did a lot of the damage.

Nowell scored 2 tries. He should have been starting but Jones oddly enough left him on the bench.

My point is that Jones hasn't purposely made the replacements winning the game in the last 10 as part of a gameplan but they've become crucial due to the reasons I've said.

I know what your point is and I agree with it. But I'll say again, my post was in response to someone saying it WAS part of England's gameplan, which we both agree it's not, so I'm puzzled as to why you jumped in to argue with me?

hugehandoff the reason I say it doesn't seem like Jones cares because instead of focusing on the poor performance of England's players vs Italy he blamed the Italian tactics, sure England should have adapted sooner perhaps and been more streetwise but England have been lethargic throughout the tournament.

Even though people understandably sometimes get sick of my rants you know as well as I do that some players should be given more opportunities.

Brown in my opinion has been average for some time yet there's no plan to replace him.

Cole and Hartley in my opinion should be eased out or at least galvanised to perform better.

Sgt Poorly calling an 8 point win with a try bonus (5 tries to 3 tries) close isn't something I hear often to be honest. Even when I do watch games, you disagree anyway.

no 7 & 1/2 most of what you say but specifically your fierce defence of Hartley's poor form and saying he's been equal in the set piece when most of the evidence suggests he's been inferior.

cascough just emphasizing the importance of the bench.

So one small bit and you call people stupid. Maybe you need to calm down and address points.

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 most of what you say but specifically your fierce defence of Hartley's poor form

Who would you play instead?

Maybe it's a case of it isn't broken, why fix it? Yes performances havent been pretty, but it's still a record number of wins. Maybe if that added pressure wasn't there, along with the grand slam (!) He may be more inclined to make changes?!

Combine that the notable absences also, leadership lost etc.

This thread is like the Tet Offensive, but without the good music.