Ulster 2016/2017

by Redman Fri 28 Apr 2017, 5:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

Redman wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Any inside info on Dom Ryan yet? 27 and the only IQ backrower not tied up for next year. Where do you put his out of interest in a pecking order? Better or worse than Clive Ross? My hunch is better, but I've not really ever watched him closely.

Has to be better. I looked him up before and he has something like 100 or so caps for Leinster. Ross has about 50 for us, and it's got to be tougher to get a cap for Leinster than it is for Ulster in the backrow - even allowing for international call ups.

Dryan ®, as he shall be known if he signs, also has 20 or so U20 caps.

That said, I haven't seen him play.

by johnnymonaghan Thu 18 May 2017, 9:13 am

i'd prefer to give them some credit ... more from hope than past performance !!! Lets hope the IRFU don't change their minds and block a potential replacement .......

by marty2086 Thu 18 May 2017, 9:15 am

What ever happened with Sean Dougall?

Has he signed for anyone yet?

by Pete330v2 Thu 18 May 2017, 9:27 am

I'm happy enough with that. No offence to the guy but as good as he is he'd spend more time with GG than Jonno with his history. Plan B better be a good one. Plan B better exist for that matter.

The inside source on t'other forum says Botha's deal fell through as he wouldn't have passed the medical.

by marty2086 Thu 18 May 2017, 9:49 am

Ulster Rugby has today confirmed that Arno Botha will not join the club this summer as planned, following a detailed medical assessment on the player.

Commenting on the decision, Operations Director, Bryn Cunningham said:

"It's unfortunate for both Arno and Ulster Rugby that we've had to come to this decision as we were looking forward to welcoming him to Kingspan Stadium. However, we have acted with the best interests of team performance in mind.

"We have meticulous processes in place for all player recruitment and having commissioned an independent medical assessment in South Africa, it was recommended that the risk had increased following his most recent injury. This view was shared by our own medical team.

"Everyone associated with Ulster Rugby sincerely hopes that Arno will go on to have a long and successful career.

"Once this decision was reached, we compiled an extensive list of potential targets and we will announce a signing to bolster the forward pack in due course."

by toml Thu 18 May 2017, 10:56 am

Apparently Loot de Jager has been rumoured going to London Irish, maybe we could Hijack that move. I know hes a lock but he's a monster

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 18 May 2017, 10:59 am

Do we have 2 NIQ spots available? Since we are losing Van der Merwe and Ruan Pienaar.

If so, a number 8 and a flanker/lock would be pretty good.

by marty2086 Thu 18 May 2017, 11:10 am

toml wrote:Apparently Loot de Jager has been rumoured going to London Irish, maybe we could Hijack that move. I know hes a lock but he's a monster

De Jager signed a new deal with the Bulls a few weeks ago and the Springboks have a new selection policy in place for overseas players which might limit our options quite a bit

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Do we have 2 NIQ spots available? Since we are losing Van der Merwe and Ruan Pienaar.

If so, a number 8 and a flanker/lock would be pretty good.

Aren't the NIQ spots reduced for next season though?

A couple of backrows would free up Henderson for the second row

by geoff999rugby Thu 18 May 2017, 12:44 pm

Yep only 3+1 next year which is why the Hamilton rumour didn't make sense.

IRFU will not allow us to move Henderson to the back row so the new boy will be a backrower.

I don't think we have a plan 'B' so panic time.
Totally reliant on Gibbes contacts I suspect.

I see that Ferris commented on the Fanning article to which Tuohy replied only scratching the service.
I suspect Dan is right, always came across to me to be a decent enough fella who was totally pissed off with the set up.

by Don Alfonso Thu 18 May 2017, 12:48 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:

I see that Ferris commented on the Fanning article to which Tuohy replied only scratching the service.
I suspect Dan is right, always came across to me to be a decent enough fella who was totally pissed off with the set up.

Link for this, G?

by marty2086 Thu 18 May 2017, 12:53 pm

Was on Twitter a few days back Don, someone tagged Richard Mulligan of the Newsletter in it asking him what he knows he basically said it takes time and he needs to ask the right questions

Maybe some are too cosy and don't want to pi$$ of the club

by geoff999rugby Thu 18 May 2017, 12:56 pm

Surface not Service Doh

Not a Twitter person myself but on the other board

http://www.uafc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19247&start=45

I also see Luke Marshall had a right go about Pienaer leaving - would have ruffled a few feathers in Dublin

by geoff999rugby Thu 18 May 2017, 12:58 pm

marty2086 wrote:Was on Twitter a few days back Don, someone tagged Richard Mulligan of the Newsletter in it asking him what he knows he basically said it takes time and he needs to ask the right questions

Maybe some are too cosy and don't want to pi$$ of the club

Our rugby journalist are a joke.

Will do no true investigative journalism because it would stop the gravy train of freebees

by marty2086 Thu 18 May 2017, 1:07 pm

I'm sure Mulligan and others know more than anything that's been reported, I'm sure if the southern press who quite often ignore Ulster and the day to day goings on can get as much as they did then those who cover it day to day could more than shed greater light on the situation.

I doubt you had to ask too many questions geoff if any and plenty on social media are aware of the issues at training yet not one mention of it even when Doak and Clarke were announced as getting the boot

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 18 May 2017, 4:53 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Yep only 3+1 next year which is why the Hamilton rumour didn't make sense.

IRFU will not allow us to move Henderson to the back row so the new boy will be a backrower.

I don't think we have a plan 'B' so panic time.
Totally reliant on Gibbes contacts I suspect.

I see that Ferris commented on the Fanning article to which Tuohy replied only scratching the service.
I suspect Dan is right, always came across to me to be a decent enough fella who was totally pissed off with the set up.

Flip me that Tuohy comment is ominous enough.

by Don Alfonso Thu 18 May 2017, 8:22 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aTaavRSF7g

Kieran Treadwell and Jacob Stockdale talking about their call-ups.

Kieran: "the coaching here has been unbelievable".

Oh I believe you, Kieran. We all do.

by clivemcl Sat 20 May 2017, 7:17 am

I have a theory. We signed Botha out of frustration that we can tempt no IQ backrowers. Since then, Dom Ryan has shown interest. As a result, we looked for a way out because we now feel our project spot could be better used in another position.

All complete speculation of course...

by The Great Aukster Sat 20 May 2017, 7:44 am

Has Cunningham left the golf course long enough yet to actually recruit some players?

by toml Sat 20 May 2017, 8:41 am

I dunno Clive, a healthy Botha looks significantly better than Leinster's 8th choice backrow

by Don Alfonso Sat 20 May 2017, 9:24 am

To be honest, I'd take Clive Ross over any of the Leinster backrowers' performances last night.

While we rightly rip into the omnishambles that has been the Ulster coaching "team" this season, after a record-breaking season cruising through the Pro12, Cullen and Lancaster have spectacularly sh@t the bed with their performances against Clermont, ourselves and the Scarlets and have finished the season with precisely as much silverware as us.

by The Great Aukster Sat 20 May 2017, 10:05 am

Jack Conan had a pretty good game and I'd place him only behind Coetzee if he was at Ulster. It was Leinster's backline that froze on the occasion, especially Sexton. Only Ringrose came out of that debacle with any credit as everyone else looked as though they had just come out of the beer tent. To look so toothless against a makeshift defence showed how green and maybe overhyped the Leinster backs are.
Ruddock and VdF may have had ordinary games, which is unusual for them, but some credit has to be given to MOTM Cubby Davies and the excellent Shingler.

Cunningham really should have sorted the missing forward conundrum by now.

by Don Alfonso Sat 20 May 2017, 10:47 am

I was being facetious, Auk, but I do disagree with your analysis. There was an incredible number of turnovers last night - seemed like they couldn't go five minutes without Carberry getting isolated and pinged for holding on. Leinster backrow nowhere to be seen. How many penalties did Leinster give away for holding on in total? Davies is phenomenal, but Shingler and Beirne were also playing havoc with Leinster at the breakdown.

Sexton was absolute muck, as was their project scrum-half (God help us if he gets anywhere near the Ireland team if he plays like that). Ringrose was the best of a bad bunch, but not great - JD had him in his pocket all game, and the midfield defence between him and Henshaw was pretty ropey. But is started with the pack, and they were bullied and completely outplayed. Of course I would in reality kill for some of those Leinster backrow. But this has actually been a pretty spectacular implosion by Leinster. They were a shambles against Clermont, pushed around by us (!) and last night was as rancid a performance as I've seen from them.

by Don Alfonso Sat 20 May 2017, 11:14 am

As a sidebar, I was just served doughnuts by Darren Cave. Pistachio and salted caramel, peanut butter, chocolate and jam and custard. Lovely guy and very good with a young kid ahead of me in the queue who was a fussy eater.

You wouldn't get that with Jamie Heaslip.

by geoff999rugby Sat 20 May 2017, 1:42 pm

I think everyone will agree our 3 stand out performances this year were Clermont at home and the two games against Glasgow

Darren Cave started two of those and played a part in the other game
Coincidence ?- not for me

by clivemcl Sat 20 May 2017, 3:50 pm

To be fair, that says more about how far our young centers have fallen compared to how good Cave is. I mean a few seasons ago some were saying Cave was done, and that he shouldn't be able to get near a shirt.

by marty2086 Sat 20 May 2017, 3:57 pm

Wasn't it after Cave came on over in Clermont too that our performance picked up?

Just think this season we were able to beat the second placed teams in all the Top leagues in Europe

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 20 May 2017, 4:37 pm

clivemcl wrote:To be fair, that says more about how far our young centers have fallen compared to how good Cave is. I mean a few seasons ago some were saying Cave was done, and that he shouldn't be able to get near a shirt.

I think it is more than the young centres are all 12s.

by The Great Aukster Sat 20 May 2017, 11:05 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:As a sidebar, I was just served doughnuts by Darren Cave. Pistachio and salted caramel, peanut butter, chocolate and jam and custard. Lovely guy and very good with a young kid ahead of me in the queue who was a fussy eater.

You wouldn't get that with Jamie Heaslip.

You wouldn't get the queue with Jamie either - he's a lot quicker than Darren!

BTW I know you don't think CRoss is an acceptable standard backrower as there is only one person in the world that thinks that, and his first name is Bryn.

by geoff999rugby Sun 21 May 2017, 8:01 am

clivemcl wrote:I have a theory. We signed Botha out of frustration that we can tempt no IQ backrowers. Since then, Dom Ryan has shown interest. As a result, we looked for a way out because we now feel our project spot could be better used in another position.

All complete speculation of course...

Interesting but wrong

by geoff999rugby Sun 21 May 2017, 8:02 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
clivemcl wrote:To be fair, that says more about how far our young centers have fallen compared to how good Cave is. I mean a few seasons ago some were saying Cave was done, and that he shouldn't be able to get near a shirt.

I think it is more than the young centres are all 12s.

Agreed just smacks of bad selection.
Anybody saying Cave was done 2 years ago doesn't know their rugby

by geoff999rugby Sun 21 May 2017, 8:05 am

Something to ponder

Of the following 6 players I would say Whitten and Seymour were the ones with the least natural talent

Whitten, Seymour, Olding, McCloskey, Gilroy, Marshall

Of those 6 I would say Whitten and Seymour are putting in performances head and shoulders above the other 4.

Are they more intelligent than the others - No
Are they harder working than the others - No

What does that say about the Ulster set up ??

by clivemcl Sun 21 May 2017, 9:24 am

Stats like that also lead me to ponder the fate of players who were let go either after academy or after a brief senior contract. What if these players did have pro12 squad player potential, but our setup couldn't get it out of them?

The Rhuirdi Murphy one has always puzzled me - I cannot understand how he could have effectively been the very bottom of the pile for us. Something odd had to be going on there!

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 21 May 2017, 9:26 am

geoff999rugby wrote:Something to ponder

Of the following 6 players I would say Whitten and Seymour were the ones with the least natural talent

Whitten, Seymour, Olding, McCloskey, Gilroy, Marshall

Of those 6 I would say Whitten and Seymour are putting in performances head and shoulders above the other 4.

Are they more intelligent than the others - No
Are they harder working than the others - No

What does that say about the Ulster set up ??

Hence my fears that we will wreck Stockdale.

by eirebilly Sun 21 May 2017, 9:37 am

Has anyone heard from Notch? Not see him on here for a long time, kind of miss our battles thumbsup

by marty2086 Mon 22 May 2017, 12:37 pm

eirebilly wrote:Has anyone heard from Notch? Not see him on here for a long time, kind of miss our battles

He started supporting Leinster and is hiding in shame Whistle

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 22 May 2017, 12:40 pm

eirebilly wrote:Has anyone heard from Notch? Not see him on here for a long time, kind of miss our battles

I caught up with him at the Ulster vs Leinster match - was in good form. Very busy in RL atm

by marty2086 Mon 22 May 2017, 12:41 pm

Michael Allen has confirmed his retirement at 26, always thought the Edinburgh move was a bad one for him

To be honest at Christmas I was going to keep playing, I wanted to stay with Edinburgh and the conversations were all very positive.

I found out towards the end of January that there wasn't going to be a contract for me here. By the time that all happened, most other teams had done their recruiting so the options were the Championship or PRO D2.

I just looked at it and thought, I've got a wife, I've got a baby coming the summer, I didn't want to move us again, to go for a year, then maybe somewhere else the next. It could have been three different places in three years just to get a pay cheque.

I would rather just admit I've had my time rather than go down to play in a lower league just to make money.

by Redman Mon 22 May 2017, 1:13 pm

marty2086 wrote:Michael Allen has confirmed his retirement at 26, always thought the Edinburgh move was a bad one for him

To be honest at Christmas I was going to keep playing, I wanted to stay with Edinburgh and the conversations were all very positive.

I found out towards the end of January that there wasn't going to be a contract for me here. By the time that all happened, most other teams had done their recruiting so the options were the Championship or PRO D2.

I just looked at it and thought, I've got a wife, I've got a baby coming the summer, I didn't want to move us again, to go for a year, then maybe somewhere else the next. It could have been three different places in three years just to get a pay cheque.

I would rather just admit I've had my time rather than go down to play in a lower league just to make money.

Probably for the best. At 26 he can still make a good go of another career rather than ekk out a living playing lower level rugby.

He took a few brutal knocks to the head last time I saw him play, I think it might have been against us. Was completely out of it. Not playing rugby will at least mean no more risk of that happening.

by marty2086 Mon 22 May 2017, 2:47 pm

He and a few others took a bit of a battering that night, wasn't nice to watch especially with his family all there. Think he only lasted a few minutes on the pitch as well.

He was a decent player to have in the squad for Ulster and him moving to Edinburgh to play 13 never looked like it would work as he always seemed a better winger, the same goes for Scholes.

If he's happy with his choice then fair play to him just seems a waste

by geoff999rugby Mon 22 May 2017, 3:36 pm

Not wishing to be brutal but if he is not wanted by Edinburgh where could he go.
Only Dragons are worse in Britain and Ireland at the top level.

Decent squad player but just comes up short.
Would have thought enjoying the game means he could play lower league as an amateur but in the end his choice.

by **rodders** Tue 23 May 2017, 10:19 am

Anyone watch the Pienaar program last night?

I've played devils advocate a few times on this, as can understand the policy and why the IRFU are frustrated with Ulster but do think it is a major error from the IRFU not to make an exception here and allow Pienaar to finish his career, it's scandalous to be honest when you look not only what Pienaar has contributed to date but what he has left to contribute to Ulster and Irish rugby.

by marty2086 Tue 23 May 2017, 11:02 am

Some interesting little bits of information, Humphries saying Pienaar turned down two and three times what he was getting paid at Ulster really hammers home how short sighted the decision is. I wonder if a player/coach role was one of the permeations Bryn talked about.

Nucifora doesn't help himself when he tells the BBC he's too busy to talk to them

by marty2086 Tue 23 May 2017, 11:09 am

BaaBaas have named their full squad to play England on Sunday and Ulster next Thursday

Backs: Horacio Agulla (Castres & Argentina), Adam Ashley-Cooper (Bordeaux Begles & Australia), Yann David (Toulouse and France), Kahn Fotuali'i (Bath Rugby & Samoa), Robbie Freuan (Bath Rugby), Rory Kockott (Castres & France), Ian Madigan (Bordeaux Begles & Ireland), Timoci Nagusa (Montpellier & Fiji), Waisea Nayacalavu (Stade Francais & Fiji), Ruan Pienaar (Ulster & South Africa), David Smith (Castres), Frans Steyn (Montpellier & South Africa).

Forwards: Patricio Albacete (Toulouse & Argentina), Steffon Armitage (Pau & England), Schalk Brits (Saracens & South Africa), Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse & France), Corey Flynn (Star RFC & New Zealand), Ben Franks (London Irish & New Zealand), Gillian Galan (Toulouse), Richard Hibbard (Gloucester & Wales), Facundo Isa (Lyon & Argentina), Census Johnston (Toulouse & Samoa), Mikheil Nariashvili (Montpellier & Georgia), WP Nel (Edinburgh & Scotland), Mike Ross (Leinster & Ireland), Joe Tekori (Toulouse & Samoa), Jeremy Thrush (Gloucester & New Zealand)

Ulster Squad

Backs: Craig Gilroy, Brett Herron, Paul Marshall, Stuart McCloskey, Peter Nelson, Jack Owens, Callum Patterson, Ruan Pienaar, Dave Shanahan, Andrew Trimble.

Forwards: Rodney Ah You, John Andrew, Peter Browne, Rob Herring, Ross Kane, Ricky Lutton, Kyle McCall, Stephen Mulholland, Alan O'Connor, Tommy O'Hagan, Matthew Rea, Clive Ross, Andy Warwick, Roger Wilson.

Hopefully the young guys can get plenty of game time and can test themselves against some quality players

by geoff999rugby Tue 23 May 2017, 11:13 am

Pienaar was offered double what he was getting at Ulster, to go to France, and turned it down.
My non appearance at Ireland games will continue next year at this disgraceful decision.

Herron - surprised.
He is both on the naughty step and useless

Season ticket take up is well down - seems we will be losing money next year.
There are some sponsors who are getting nervous and reigning back their support

by Pete330v2 Tue 23 May 2017, 11:16 am

I didn't watch it because it's still all very raw indeed and I would have gotten lots of dust in my eye. I truely didn't have the heart to watch it. It's utterly disgusting how that man and his family has been treated by the not only short sighted but completely blind IRFU policy.
Nucifora and the IRFU are a lot of things I am not allowed to print on here but now we can add gutless. Too busy to take 5 minutes and talk about this? Sorry excuse.

by marty2086 Tue 23 May 2017, 11:21 am

geoff999rugby wrote:Pienaar was offered double what he was getting at Ulster, to go to France, and turned it down.
My non appearance at Ireland games will continue next year at this disgraceful decision.

Herron - surprised.
He is both on the naughty step and useless

Season ticket take up is well down - seems we will be losing money next year.
There are some sponsors who are getting nervous and reigning back their support

My non appearance at Ireland games will continue due to some of the extortionate pricing but that may change in November Whistle

Don't think we'll see Herron start he's likely there to make up the numbers or as cover for Nelson

by eirebilly Tue 23 May 2017, 11:24 am

marty2086 wrote:Some interesting little bits of information, Humphries saying Pienaar turned down two and three times what he was getting paid at Ulster really hammers home how short sighted the decision is. I wonder if a player/coach role was one of the permeations Bryn talked about.

Nucifora doesn't help himself when he tells the BBC he's too busy to talk to them

Just shows again just how committed Ruan was to Ulster. He was a part of the community and gave up big offers to stay with the team and place he felt at home with. I said before that it was very narrow minded of them to force Pienaar on as he was not restricting an Irish 9 coming through, he was helping create a very good and very much future Irish 10.

How many other players will now want to commit to Ulster having the knowledge of how Pienaar was treated. In all walks of life, certain exceptions should be made. No other provinces or their fans would have begrudged Ulster keeping Pienaar.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 23 May 2017, 11:54 am

The thing is, for all the talk of mass migration in society nowadays, this is a clear cut example of someone coming from a foreign country and contributing to our local sport and local community in an enormous way and even sacrificing financial gain to continue doing so. Who knows how many young people have been inspired by watching Ruan Pienaar play at Ravenhill. That isn't even mentioning his contribution to churches and so on.

Why should rugby be any different? Or am I being naive?

by Pete330v2 Wed 24 May 2017, 12:12 pm

Wasps are coming to Ravespan for one of the preseason friendlies on the 17th of August. We'd better not tell Charles or he'll want to go home with them Smile

by marty2086 Wed 24 May 2017, 12:32 pm

Maybe he'll be playing in a Wasps jersey in that game, Dai Young did say last week he'd love him back at Wasps though he was talking about after next season, who knows what'll happen but I if Wasps were to offer a few quid to buy out his contract I'd bite their hands off for it

by PhilBB Wed 24 May 2017, 3:12 pm

£500,000 a season for Piatau. How much would the IRFU want as a transfer fee?

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