British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

First topic message reminder :

robbo277 wrote:
But as I said, I don't want players to water down their comments. I want to read what the players think, I don't want to read what the press officer tells them to say.

That's fair enough, and I agree with the rest of your comment on this basis. I personally don't particularly care what Mike Brown thinks, especially when it's as obvious as "experienced test player is disappointed to have not been selected for the Lions". I could have told you that without Mike Brown's public statement. The point where it deviated from him merely expressing his disappointment to one where he's put his foot in his mouth is the fact he questioned the coaches' lack of communication to him personally. Even if he's right- and I think he may well be- to publicly bring that into question in the way he has done is antithetical to the whole business of a squad as a unity, a whole above the self.

As for him being a liability, I agree to an extent, but equally he does get in his fair few verbal and physical scraps. He's clearly not a player who's particularly in control of his emotions, a bit like Biggar, in that he wants to plead his case long after it is obvious his efforts are utterly in vain. He's not a catastrophe by any means, but having played with people like him, they can be liabilities. Ticking time bomb may be the incorrect phrase, and overdoing it slightly, but that doesn't negate the point entirely. Either way, it doesn't particularly matter, as I don't think it really affects his performance or mentality, and the players around him, too much: but if it did, it's hard to quantify anyway.

It hurts but I agree, though I think Farrell would be better at 12 than anything we have, I think we need him to hammer Barrett. Sexton will be a superb sub.

It's certainly Farrell on form. Midfield could be Henshaw and JJ. Sexton to come on in the 2nd half and Farrell shift to 12. That's just one option anyway as the Welsh halfbacks are also capable of featuring together IMO.

Henshaw was outplayed tonight so hardly a certainty?

Has Sexton shown any form even for a bench spot?

No.

Past glories is Gatlands way.

The Great Aukster wrote:Henshaw was outplayed tonight so hardly a certainty?

Not by his opposite number. Ringrose was good too.

TightHEAD wrote:No.

Past glories is Gatlands way.

At least he has some.

Outstanding performances from JD2, Halfpenny and L Williams today. A team with 2 lions and 14 men beats Leinster away, with their 4 Lions and a full compliment.
Looks good to have all 3 involved in the Tests at this point. What has happened to Henshaw and Sexton. Underlines my belief Farrell will start at 10 but unless Henshaw steps up it will have to be Farrell at 12.

Back 3 of Half, Williams and North makes most sense to deal with NZ kicking game. Maybe Daly.

Doesn't look like any Ireland players deserve a start, especially with the props and Murray injured.

The Great Aukster wrote:Doesn't look like any Ireland players deserve a start, especially with the props and Murray injured.

I don't agree with that. POM and CJ Stander are still very much in the running to start. I didn't think that Henshaw had a particularly bad game last night, thought he was strong in a back line that was being dominated, no shame in that.

Gwlad wrote:Outstanding performances from JD2, Halfpenny and L Williams today. A team with 2 lions and 14 men beats Leinster away, with their 4 Lions and a full compliment.
Looks good to have all 3 involved in the Tests at this point. What has happened to Henshaw and Sexton. Underlines my belief Farrell will start at 10 but unless Henshaw steps up it will have to be Farrell at 12.

Not a full compliment - no SOB, no Heaslip, no Kearney

Sexton played most of the game injured - that was why Nacewa took the kicks
I am amazed a lot of people posting here are not aware of that

McGrath went off in the first 10 mins but will be fine
Furlong gave the Scarlets a torrid time in the scrum
Henshaw wasn't bested by his opposite number

So None of the Lions came up short

Having said all that the Scarlets were outstanding and have made me £100 richer
Came across a bookies offering 5-1 on them winning.
I don't often bet (about once a year) but they were silly odds - so £20 down thanks
Taking candy from a baby

Also Leinster much vaunted backrow have been bested in two semi finals in a row.
We have told Ruddock in on the form of his life - no evidence in recent weeks and Leavy when he came on was missing in action
Also Gibson-Park was awful and Nacewa was poor too

Ringrose and Henshaw did ok but Johnathan Davies was back to his best

mikey_dragon wrote:It's certainly Farrell on form. Midfield could be Henshaw and JJ. Sexton to come on in the 2nd half and Farrell shift to 12. That's just one option anyway as the Welsh halfbacks are also capable of featuring together IMO.

If Farrell starts, at 10, I think it will be Henshhaw and Johnathan Davies

geoff999rugby wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:It's certainly Farrell on form. Midfield could be Henshaw and JJ. Sexton to come on in the 2nd half and Farrell shift to 12. That's just one option anyway as the Welsh halfbacks are also capable of featuring together IMO.

If Farrell starts, at 10, I think it will be Henshhaw and Johnathan Davies

I'd say Henshaw now, but I'd be interesting to see how Te'o gets on. He's a bit of an unknown going into the tour because he hasn't had all that much international exposure, but Gatland's gone with him anyway. If he starts smashing through the first couple of tour games then I wouldn't count him out - he definitely fits "Gatlandball".

Sarries loss is the Lions gain, excellent news that the contingent will be in camp on Monday.

Gwlad wrote:Sarries loss is the Lions gain, excellent news that the contingent will be in camp on Monday.

Following players ended their club season this weekend:

Mako Vunipola, Jack McGrath, Jamie George, Dan Cole, Tadhg Furlong, Maro Itoje, George Kruis, (Alun-Wyn Jones), Sean O'Brien, Sam Warburton, (Justin Tipuric), Billy Vunipola, (Rhys Webb), Owen Farrell, Jonny Sexton, (Dan Biggar) and Robbie Henshaw.

A good number of players for Gatland to work with - although some will turn up injured. Only 2 weeks before the first game.

Just waiting on Ken Owens, Courtney Lawes, (Peter O'Mahony), (CJ Stander), (Connor Murray), Jonathan Davies, Elliot Daly, George North, Jack Nowell, Liam Williams and Leigh Halfpenny.

Could you pencil in Seymour, Watson and Hogg for the NZ Barbarians? With Webb's injury, will Grieg Laidlaw (not in the original party) get the first run-out at 9?

(brackets indicate latest score).

On the basis that in the first 3 games every player will get a start I'm not concerned about the later add ons however it will affect camp unity. Gatland's experience in 09 and 13 will be critical and most lions, especially those who were on 05 and 09 believe he is excellent at unifying the squad. I am pleased the Sarries contingent will arrive sooner than expected as I think the sooner we start Kruis, Itoje and Billy V the better. Need to set down the standard in the first game.

A lot of Lions look to be saving themselves for the tour, particularly the Irish ones. Not the greatest weekend for Irish Lions.

I know Woodward was widely criticised for having a Saturday team and a midweek team, but after the NZ Barbarians, the Saturday fixtures are the Crusaders, the Maori and then three tests.

Is having the basis of a Saturday team in place for the Saders game the worst strategy? It will give your first team 2 tough tests before the test series, and you can also carry on tinkering if you need to.

I think one thing Woodward did was separate the two squads so they travelled separately, which is obviously terrible for squad cohesion, so it isn't without risk.

If you're going to start what you think is your first choice team in the third game, you need to give the other 26 players games in the first two, which makes the selection for these games a bit easier. The thing that might scupper you is obviously the injuries and late arrivals.

To some extent there will be a midweek team; the schedule is such that those that start against the highlanders and chiefs will figure they aren't in the running; the first game being shortly before the Maori game - which being a week before the 1st test should likely see the 1st Test side run out - and the 2nd just 4 days before the test. That said with this smaller squad players will be expected to come off the bench and perhaps even start with very short recovery time.

The bunch of individuals that will become the Test side has three games to learn how to play together and then face the best rugby team on the planet. Gatland already knows the Lions' chances are miniscule and starting from scratch each week just lengthens them further. The risible 240 minutes together that the Lions have in match time compared to the years that the ABs have means that Gatland will have chiselled his first team in stone and been carrying those tablets since the 6N - the rest of the squad is only injury cover, kept fit for the bench in case of injury.

Not sure how you can say that 'Gatland already knows the Lions chances are miniscule' there Aukster. Ireland showed that the AB's can be beaten and Gatland is a very good coach with some of the best rugby players at his disposal. The Lions have a very good chance of beating the AB's...

I definitely think the team is not chiselled in stone.

At most 6/7 certainties - the first few games will determine the rest.
I do think they are probably about 15 who have no chance of starting

eirebilly - the lions have a tiny chance of winning the series. Wrong coach, wrong selection, wrong tactics ( probably) I think Gatlnd has his team set in stone and has done for months hence taking his favourites like Warburton even tho injured and ignoring the most effective 7 of the 6N ( Watson)

Even with all these things being right it would be a small chance of winning

10 a real issue with Sexton looking out of form, Farrell is poor unless given an armchair ride as we saw yesterday. Biggar is limited. I think right now I would go with Biggar

I've typed 3 messages about underestimating Farrell but I think I'll just put it in the pile of so and so English player isn't very good!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:A lot of Lions look to be saving themselves for the tour, particularly the Irish ones. Not the greatest weekend for Irish Lions.

Which Irish Lions do you think were saving themselves ??

None that I saw

geoff999rugby wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:A lot of Lions look to be saving themselves for the tour, particularly the Irish ones. Not the greatest weekend for Irish Lions.

Which Irish Lions do you think were saving themselves ??

None that I saw

..just his poor excuse for an Irish team losing.

Munster won

Nailed it Mikey! Good job, you.

Geoff - I thought that Sexton was very poor and that the likes of Stander and O'Mahony were fairly anonymous (one cover tackle apart). I wasn't being entirely literal, just making the point that they didn't have good games. Then the props unfortunately got injured.

geoff999rugby wrote:Munster won

He was saying it when Leinster were losing, and some Irish Lions play for teams other than Munster right????

"He" said it after the Munster game. Why don't you just ask directly? Or would that ruin your childish narrative? Hmm.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:"He" said it after the Munster game. Why don't you just ask directly? Or would that ruin your childish narrative? Hmm.

It's either he or she.

Leinster props let no one down
McGrath went off early and Furlong terrorised the Scarlets scrum.
Sexton was carrying an injury for most of the game and Henshaw was not bested by his opposite number.

POM did a lot of good stuff and Murray had a decent return.
Stander may not have made hard yards but he put in a honest shift

None of them held back.

There were some awful Leinster performances but they are not with Lions
Nacewa, Gibson-Park, Maloney, Ruddock. Leavy, Bryne were all poor or worse
Quite frankly Furlong and Triggs carried the rest of the front five

geoff999rugby wrote:Leinster props let no one down
McGrath went off early and Furlong terrorised the Scarlets scrum.
Sexton was carrying an injury for most of the game and Henshaw was not bested by his opposite number.

POM did a lot of good stuff and Murray had a decent return.
Stander may not have made hard yards but he put in a honest shift

None of them held back.

There were some awful Leinster performances but they are not with Lions
Nacewa, Gibson-Park, Maloney, Ruddock. Leavy, Bryne were all poor or worse
Quite frankly Furlong and Triggs carried the rest of the front five

You're taking the first part of my post too literally. The second part is the one in which I was being serious (a bad weekend for the Irish Lions).

I did not claim the props let anyone down, I said they got injured unfortunately. Sexton was rubbish, whatever the reason was. Henshaw was mediocre and I still don't think he is great at 12. POM was largely anonymous for the first half and overall made 6 tackles while missing 3. Stander has found it hard to make ground with ball in hand since returning from injury.

I will say that the Lions tour is surely on the back of the minds of some of these players and it is no coincidence that some players (including some of the Welsh players as well such as Bigger and AWJ) do not perform at their best leading up to it.

Some really interesting games yesterday, Lawes is really putting himself forward as a starting lock. He has been brilliant since the turn of the year. Launchbury put in another motm game yesterday and he's got to be the unluckiest guy not to make the Lions squad, for me, he's a starter.

Looks like Billy V out.of your.. .. http://www.lionsrugby.com/news/16233.php#.WSHwOcvTXqD

Billy Vunipola out of the squad with a shoulder injury Haskell is called up

marty2086 wrote:Billy Vunipola out of the squad with a shoulder injury Haskell is called up

The Haskell thing is a wind up right?

Commiserations to BV. Big loss to the squad.

Unsure who else should be called up? Heaslip, possibly but he's getting on a bit. Hughes and Strauss possibly just aren't quite at Lions level. Wales already have 4 back-row on tour, and don't really have anyone else to put forward.

Stander will probably be the big carrying option at 8 now, with Haskell going primarily as a flanker who covers 8, along with Moriarty.

A huge loss for the Lions, regardless of who is called up to replace him. Happy for Haskell though, he was outstanding in 2016, and if he can hit that level on tour he'll be a real asset for the Lions.

Billy is a serious loss and I fear a few more are to come. Of course the ABs have some of their own injury concerns. Haskell will be a useful addition to the tour party and has performed well against the ABs before, but losing BV is a blow.

That is a big blow for Lions. In my opinion he is the Lions' best player.

I would prefer him to miss a Lions tour than important England games though.

Poor Billy and poor Lions.

Aye Billy V will be a loss.  I still have nightmares about him rampaging thru scotland

7 1/2 Farrell was poor in that game.  When he gets put under pressure he is often rattled.  Much better than he used to be in this regard but you can bet NZ will target him at 10 and try to rattle him.

Not as bad as Russell tho ;-)

Gutted for Billy, he'd have ripped it up out there, a real chance to showcase his talents.

Great news on Haskell on the flip, well deserved.

Literally the worst injury we could have had in terms of irreplaceable skillset.

For me, this moves Stander to 8 and probably SOB to accompany Warbuton. 

The question is whether Haskell is currently playing better than SOB. There's a good argument that he is. Whomever is the best ball carrier should play because we need heavy traffic experts.

George Carlin wrote:Literally the worst injury we could have had in terms of irreplaceable skillset.

For me, this moves Stander to 8 and probably SOB to accompany Warbuton. 

The question is whether Haskell is currently playing better than SOB. There's a good argument that he is. Whomever is the best ball carrier should play because we need heavy traffic experts.

No, this just answers the difficult question of Billy or Faletau at no 8. Haskel will be taking cheap shots during mid week games.

I would have called up Barclay or Robshaw and told Stander he is now exclusively an 8.

Lovely try from Zebo, enjoyed that.

Yeah let Stander and Faletau fight it out for 8, its Stander's best position anyway

POM is surely the favourite to start at 6 now

Wonder how many back row injuries it would actually take for Robshaw to get a call, hopefully we don't find out

I'm worried what will happen if we lose Faletau or CJ - do we have any out and out 8s left to call up?

Is there really a chance that we many end up with Moriarty as our test 8?