Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

[profitius]

First topic message reminder :

Continued from this one. https://www.606v2.com/t63658-irish-provinces-news-gossip-thread-2016-17
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[geoff999rugby]

At the start of next season Ulster will have 8 players 31 or older in the squad.
Only Nakarawa over 32 - he is 33.

Carter, Warwick, McGrath, Madigan, Reidy - all 32
Cooney and Herring - 31

Half of the squad were born 1995 or later

[mikey_dragon]

Looks like Jenkins will be the last signing so the squad is almost complete. Not sure what the logic is of his signing especially with Ahern signed up.

I don't know a lot about Ahern, but I don't think Jenkins signing for just a year does him any favours, unless he is hoping to pick up a big French contract at some point. Speaking of which, he can also play back-row, so now you've got someone who is 6'7 and over 120kg who can play on the flank. Munster's pack is already very strong, so it will be hard to see them losing many games again next season.

JJ going overseas is a surprise, must be a big contract. Are you looking into bringing Zebo home?

Rhys Marshall is someone I wouldn't mind having at the Dragons if he stays injury free, as a replacement for Hibbard. Doubt it though.

[profitius]

At the start of next season Ulster will have 8 players 31 or older in the squad.
Only Nakarawa over 32 - he is 33.

Carter, Warwick, McGrath, Madigan, Reidy - all 32
Cooney and Herring - 31

Half of the squad were born 1995 or later

Didn't know it was that many. They'll have to do some recruiting in the next year or so.

[profitius]

Looks like Jenkins will be the last signing so the squad is almost complete. Not sure what the logic is of his signing especially with Ahern signed up.  

I don't know a lot about Ahern, but I don't think Jenkins signing for just a year does him any favours, unless he is hoping to pick up a big French contract at some point. Speaking of which, he can also play back-row, so now you've got someone who is 6'7 and over 120kg who can play on the flank. Munster's pack is already very strong, so it will be hard to see them losing many games again next season.

JJ going overseas is a surprise, must be a big contract. Are you looking into bringing Zebo home?

Rhys Marshall is someone I wouldn't mind having at the Dragons if he stays injury free, as a replacement for Hibbard. Doubt it though.

I don't think JJ was wanted. There are 3 young 10s just promoted from the academy and Carbery.


Marshall is a good player. Better than Scannell imo.

[formerly known as Sam]

Has JJ ever really kicked on? His life to Saints was pretty disastrous. He never looked tactically dominant so that he could manage the game but at the same time not physical enough to play the secondary playmaker at 12. From the outside looked like the player for the 22 shirt you'd turn to if you needed to spark something in the second half rather than someone you'd ever give the 10 shirt to full time. With Carbeary back fit I assume his game time would have been even more reduced, surprised to see he's only 28 I thought he'd been around longer. Will get a good run in France to set up the pension for later life.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Has JJ ever really kicked on? His life to Saints was pretty disastrous. He never looked tactically dominant so that he could manage the game but at the same time not physical enough to play the secondary playmaker at 12. From the outside looked like the player for the 22 shirt you'd turn to if you needed to spark something in the second half rather than someone you'd ever give the 10 shirt to full time. With Carbeary back fit I assume his game time would have been even more reduced, surprised to see he's only 28 I thought he'd been around longer. Will get a good run in France to set up the pension for later life.

Was he really that bad for saints? I remember we hammered them in a Heineken cup game in franklins gardens in 2016 he was one of Northampton's better players, but he was playing at 12. I think it's fair to say he's a better player now than he was then but he'll always be seen as someone who hasn't fulfilled their potential. He looked like a future star in the u20 world cup but he has had a decent career so far and Clermont is a fantastic move for him.

[formerly known as Sam]

At Saints he had injuries and from memory came in and out of the side. Couldn't take the shirt off of Myler. I think his form was a bit up and down, he did come with a lot of hype though which wouldn't have been easy for a young playmaker who'd never played in the Prem before.

I think Clermont is an interesting opportunity for him. He's a skillful guy and their backline is pretty amazing so you'd assume his assist stats will be pretty high.

[Brendan]

Recently O'Gara talked about he has great skill and vision but can be hard to get him out of his own head. At times he looks amazing and at others he overthinks and completely messes up which then leads to more problems as he tries to fix his earlier mistake.

If he could be like Finn Russel and just move on mentally to the next play and forget about the last play he could have been great. Finn can make and absolute howler of a mistake and then do something magical and his mental strenght is one of his greatest strenght (and often overlooked). It's why no other play can set up so much each game as he does (though sometimes for both teams).

[formerly known as Sam]

Good insight. I think all flyhalfs need to have an ego if they are going to get to the top of the game as you say because they've got to be able to shrug off the errors that will happen. How those egos manifest themselves is what makes flyhalfs the interesting characters.

[profitius]

JJ Hanrahan is mentally weak. On the big occasions he has fluffed chance after chance. He missed an easy drop goal to beat Racing last season. He spoke about it recently saying that he didn't practice drop goals enough before that. That lack of preparation wouldnt happen to a Jonny Wilkinson or Sexton.


If he was a bit bigger he could have made a great 12. His passing is superb and he can make a break. He won the pro14 golden boot for the second time last season. Only downside is his kicking from hand and option taking. Clermont might be a good match for him.

[formerly known as Sam]

That's exactly how he was at Saints (or how I remember him at Saints). If he could have upped his defensive contribution a possibly excellent 12. Not quite got it for 10. As you say not being prepared isn't an option though you do seem to have some high level flyhalfs that cruise along on their natural talent. I remember Priestland putting down the improvements to his game at Bath to working with George Ford because Ford set the standard for preparation. You'd assume that would be a given for an international playmaker but maybe not.

[Brendan]

Listened the Friend's interview on off the ball a few days ago. Talked about Connacht's quota is 30% must be from Connacht which seems about right currently but as the growth of rugby continues in the province hopefully it can go up to 50%.

He also had some interesting things to say about the loss to Tigers and basically implied the team may have underestimated Tiger and that the players didn't adjust quickly enough to the game in front of them. Scoreline backed that up with Connacht getting 75% of their points in the second half

[formerly known as Sam]

Yes I think Connacht saw a partly second team on paper and thought we can blow those guys away. Saw young names in the pack and some big lumps and the thinking was run the legs off them. Borthwick is to canny for that. Despite quite a few fans (including me, though to a lesser degree than many) questioning his selection they got the job done.

Connacht did score more in the second half but still lost the second half 24-21. It was a very entertaining end to end game, most unlike anything involving Leicester normally. I expected Connacht's international half backs to try and exert more control.

[Kingshu]

Zebo returning to Munster, what is surprising is the contract is part funded by the IRFU?

[Pot Hale]

Zebo returning to Munster, what is surprising is the contract is part funded by the IRFU?

Well the IRFU part funds all of the full time IQ players. If they went above the normal contribution, then obviously they see an opportunity for Zebo to play himself back into test contention in his one season contract. Whether they continue to pay extra after that remains to be seen.

[Collapse2005]

Looks like Irelands summer tour will be cancelled. Farrell might join the coaching group.

[Brendan]

I wonder if they could throw together a North American Cup with USA, Canada, few other invited sides like Georgia and the 6 N teams with no tours. Can have crowds if held somewhere like Texas which has history of holding games. If successful could be a blueprint for future Lions years.

Otherwise I want a 3 test series against another European nation rather then another 6 nations competition.

[formerly known as Sam]

England were due to play Scotland and then USA and Canada over there this summer but this might now be held in the UK instead.

Georgia and Romania have games against Scotland.

I'm sure all those nations would be open to additional fixtures against Ireland should the IRFU get in there quickly and arrange something.

[profitius]

James Cronin is leaving munster. Connachts fullback Stephen Fitzgerald (26) retiring with a knee injury.

[Pot Hale]

James Cronin is leaving munster. Connachts fullback Stephen Fitzgerald (26) retiring with a knee injury.

Shame about Fitzgerald - he was looking promising as a good club player.

Cronin can't be the only one who's departing. 7 out and 12 in. Squads are meant to be reduced for next season - allegedly.

[thebandwagonsociety]

Major shake up coming at the Munster set up;

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/59650029

[formerly known as Sam]

Going to be interesting to see what happens down there with both Larkham and van Graan going. ROG is under contract in La Rochelle until 2024. Will POC the prodigal son come into take the reins, a return to shopping in SA for coaches or the cheap option of promoting internally with Rowntree or maybe Felix Jones to come home from SA?

[thebandwagonsociety]

Going to be interesting to see what happens down there with both Larkham and van Graan going. ROG is under contract in La Rochelle until 2024. Will POC the prodigal son come into take the reins, a return to shopping in SA for coaches or the cheap option of promoting internally with Rowntree or maybe Felix Jones to come home from SA?

Prendergast?

[formerly known as Sam]

Going to be interesting to see what happens down there with both Larkham and van Graan going. ROG is under contract in La Rochelle until 2024. Will POC the prodigal son come into take the reins, a return to shopping in SA for coaches or the cheap option of promoting internally with Rowntree or maybe Felix Jones to come home from SA?

Prendergast?

Don't know much about him other than he's the Racing backs coach. Is he the hotly tipped favourite?

[thebandwagonsociety]

Going to be interesting to see what happens down there with both Larkham and van Graan going. ROG is under contract in La Rochelle until 2024. Will POC the prodigal son come into take the reins, a return to shopping in SA for coaches or the cheap option of promoting internally with Rowntree or maybe Felix Jones to come home from SA?

Prendergast?

Don't know much about him other than he's the Racing backs coach. Is he the hotly tipped favourite?

All subject to changes and movements obvious but at the minute, he appears to be with the bookies;

Mike Prendergast 4/6
ROG 6/5
POC 13/5
Jason Holland 7/2
Graham Rowntree 7/2
Ian Costello 9/2
Scott Robertson 6/1
Felix Jones 9/1
Jerry Flannery 12/1
Stuart Lancaster 16/1
Kiss/Kidney both are 20/1
Pat Lam 22/1
Dan McFarland 25/1
Chieka 33/1
Cullen 40/1
Billy Holland 100/1
Joe Schmidt 250/1

[thebandwagonsociety]

I've heard good things about Prendergast and he would be something fresh into the set up. Maybe give the province a bump for 2 seasons and see if they ride a wave through to the RWC as a carrot for a lot of players to welcome the new approach.

Jason Holland is a good shout, but with the RWC out there, he might only come to Munster if he thinks the Schmidt appointment and Foster keeping the kiwi position and queue in front of him rules him out of getting involved in RWC..... He couldn't move north either if he felt there was a chance of getting the NZ head coach job after a disastrous rwc showing?

ROG would be expensive to buy out of a contract and looks like he is the post RWC fallout / medjia great hope to take over the Ireland job.

POC needs to serve a stint as coach in the Ireland set up through to the RWC and (a) a successful rwc may put him in the Ireland seat or (b) drama might have him bunkering down in the Munster role.

My own thoughts would be Jones and Flannery making a good combo or to a lesser extent Jones and Billy.

[mikey_dragon]

Major shake up coming at the Munster set up;

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/59650029

Another South African who’s had enough of the cold?

[thebandwagonsociety]

Major shake up coming at the Munster set up;

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/59650029

Another South African who’s had enough of the cold?

I hope that isn't his reason, because moving to Bath isn't exactly sunning it in the south of france.

[Brendan]

I would love to have Andy Friend but I think Munster would not be unable to play his style and would be unfair on Connacht but it is something the IRFU could do.

Wouldn't mind Lancaster but think it's unrealistic as Leinster only works because he flies into Dublin.  Not sure Shannon airport would give the same benefits.

POC is all about romance but not sure he has the skills currently to be the head man and feel he would end up like Martin Johnson where it ends up being bad for reputation.

Hard to pick up someone but IRFU generally do ok.  Not sure the bookies odds will be right but that's all about bets rather than what people think.

McCall would be my pick if you could have anyone but that's not going to happen.  He would be able to make Munster more balanced and be able to bring on both forwards and backs.

I don't want anyone like Cockers because he will get results for two years but not progress us.

[formerly known as Sam]

Cockers wouldn't work I agree. He's a brilliant coach but as the main man he's definitely out of his depth. He could work as a head coach but you'd need a DOR of vision working above him. There's also Rowntree, if you've got him you've got a top class forwards coach already so don't really need Cockers.

[mikey_dragon]

Major shake up coming at the Munster set up;

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/59650029

Another South African who’s had enough of the cold?

I hope that isn't his reason, because moving to Bath isn't exactly sunning it in the south of france.

A bit odd he's going there. It must have been a big offer.

[formerly known as Sam]

Major shake up coming at the Munster set up;

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/59650029

Another South African who’s had enough of the cold?

I hope that isn't his reason, because moving to Bath isn't exactly sunning it in the south of france.

A bit odd he's going there. It must have been a big offer.

Bath aren't short on money and have a prime squad. They are massively underperforming currently considering the squad they have and with Falatau leaving in the summer shouldn't be to negatively effected by the falling salary cap rules, they have a number of talented youngsters. They are a club prime for a rebuild and turnaround. Whether you'd want to go for the rebuild rather than looking to take Munster back to glory I'm not sure unless there's constraints behind the scenes somewhere, two big SA names are leaving Munster in the summer for instance.

[Recwatcher16]

Folk might not be aware that Bath tried to recruit vG whilst he was at SARFU but who wouldn't release him from his contract, so Bath appointed Todd Blackadder instead. In the interim he subsequently went to Munster. This appointment isn't out of the blue.

As far as Bath prospects go, it is currently well documented how many first teamers are injured with roughly half the 40 man squad out, some for significant periods, so vG will know what potential is available in the squad plus with Faletau leaving (who sadly, wont be missed) creates a significant chunk of available salary for additional players or one marquee player.

Looks clear to me he has made a judgement on how many Munster players will make the Test side in the next two years and the invaluable experience that generates for the club game and concluded Leinster with their age profile will continue to dominate. So he's gone for a probable pay rise to a club that wanted him to join before he was a known coach.

It will be interesting to see how he gets on in Premiership and who, if any, survive from the current coaching set up.

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