The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

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The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by The Loaded Dog on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 9:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

1st Test Brisbane, November 23-27, 2017

Australia:
Bancroft, Warner, Khawaja, Smith *, Handscomb, S Marsh, Paine †, Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Hazelwood

England:
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root *, Malan, Ali, Bairstow †, Woakes, Ball, Broad, Anderson


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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 6:32 am

Cook’s gone after one and topped it. 11-1

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 6:32 am

Are you kidding me Cook?
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by superflyweight on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 6:33 am

Cook is an @rsehole for getting out like that.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 6:43 am

17-2 and I think we’re done

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:00 am

Managed to get through unscathed the rest of the day somehow - but I’d say we’re behind now and with Anderson potentially hurt, it’s even more tough.

Going to need Root to play a blinder tomorrow to set a decent total for the Aussies
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:14 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:In other news, Maxwell out for 278.

Hi LD - what number does Maxwell normally bat? The most likely vacancy coming up would seem to be at 3 although I'm not sure if that would be high for him.

Meanwhile, a fine one handed catch by Bairstow off Anderson to put Paine back in the hutch. Australia now 93 adrift with 4 wickets left. I put us ahead but that could change if one of the bowlers can stay with Smith. EDIT and PS - However, Starc can't!! 209/7.

Batting at 3 for Vic but usually lower down the order. One possible reshuffle would be Marsh at 3, Maxwell at 6... drop Khawaja.

Cheers, LD. Yeah, Khawaja is the one with the most question marks hanging over him, at least at the moment. I appreciate Marsh could move to 3 allowing Maxwell to come in at 6. I just would be a bit reluctant to move Marsh up so many places as I suspect that might be inviting trouble for him. If Marsh is to be a regular member of the team, he needs to have a fixed spot and at this early time that seems to be 6.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by alfie on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:18 am

Bit shocked at Cook getting out like that. Looking at it again it is clear the ball came a little slower than he expected hence the top edge ; but with the sides virtually level I'd have thought he would play cautiously at first. Vince got a ripper.

Australia on top now : not actually by much ...if it were 1 down I'd score it even. A good partnership now could swing it back to England as Smith has shown sheer patience can eventually bring rewards...

Where does it go now ? If England can regroup and bat the day out they will probably get a draw...but I think that depends on Root playing an innings. If they get bowled tomorrow I fear all the good work of the first 2.5 days has gone for nothing as skittling Australia on this pitch seems a little unlikely .

Once again the problem for England is the gulf between the two senior bowlers and the rest : when Broad and Anderson are bowling it looks like a tense battle for the Australian bats - even Smith. When the others come on England are just containing and hoping...not that they are awful : just on this pitch they aren't going to have an impact.

For the future of the series England have to juggle the use of their two wicket takers against their workload. Or perhaps draft a (fit ?) Wood in. Woakes and Ball remain good future prospects but I can't see them winning a series in Australia. Still wonder if Overton might not have been a better bet?

Forgive me if I'm a bit grumpy as my match didn't happen : the other team defaulted. And after missing two games with a pesky injury I was raring to go...

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:18 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:... throwing away their hard work by letting a lower order bat hang around again I see

...

Thought for a moment there we were back on a Surrey thread! Wink

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by alfie on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:32 am

What is this about an Anderson injury ? Was watching at the club with no sound in between watching our fourths getting massacred on the adjacent ground and don't pick up on this ...

Blimey if we lose him before Adelaide I will believe this tour is doomed...

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by The Loaded Dog on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:53 am

guildfordbat wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:In other news, Maxwell out for 278.

Hi LD - what number does Maxwell normally bat? The most likely vacancy coming up would seem to be at 3 although I'm not sure if that would be high for him.

Meanwhile, a fine one handed catch by Bairstow off Anderson to put Paine back in the hutch. Australia now 93 adrift with 4 wickets left. I put us ahead but that could change if one of the bowlers can stay with Smith. EDIT and PS - However, Starc can't!! 209/7.

Batting at 3 for Vic but usually lower down the order. One possible reshuffle would be Marsh at 3, Maxwell at 6... drop Khawaja.

Cheers, LD. Yeah, Khawaja is the one with the most question marks hanging over him, at least at the moment. I appreciate Marsh could move to 3 allowing Maxwell to come in at 6. I just would be a bit reluctant to move Marsh up so many places as I suspect that might be inviting trouble for him. If Marsh is to be a regular member of the team, he needs to have a fixed spot and at this early time that seems to be 6.

I see your point, guildford.

Which is why I believe the rash decision to drop Renshaw (even though he wasn't faring too well recently) exacerbates the current dilemma with Khawaja's poor first innings here and leads to calls for him to be dropped - as I heard one pundit mention on the radio this morning.

That was a poor showing against Ali from Khawaja but I still feel that once he gets going he is capable of producing a big score. However, he seems to have reverted back to his non-confident self at the crease... his body language giving himself away... which Ali was able to expose and exploit with relative ease. He still has a chance to redeem himself in his second innings but he will need to try and call the shots rather than let the bowling dictate terms to him.

S Marsh should be able to perform well batting at 3 at this level. After all, he has been around a while and is no stranger to batting higher up the order or even opening for his state. It's about time he was 'forced' to take on more responsibility at Test level if called upon to do so - at his age and with his experience. This is said with respect to Maxwell making himself an irresistible selection at 6.

I thought that he (Marsh) showed glimpses of his best silky form yesterday and today but that one ball from Broad (smarter bowling) led to a relatively soft dismissal - and poor shot selection and/or judgment of where the ball would be once it reached his bat at that wrong angle. He must have been cursing himself as he sauntered off the field. He really needed to go on a make a hundred after that start.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:05 am

A disappointing day for England and especially so given the lunchtime position when Australia were more than 90 in arrears with only 3 wickets left. When I turned in then, I was hoping for a first innings lead of 40+ and thought that was realistic. Not to be.

clap clap to Smith for a wonderful innings of skill, determination and careful thought. I'm sure Goose will mock him and particularly me for not reaching 160 but he showed the immense value of staying there beyond his half-century and properly going on. He remained undefeated and went chanceless (believe that's correct) - already concerning that we are still faced with having to get him out 9 times this series! Credit as well to the tail and particularly Cummins for their contributions.

I do feel and fear the game has significantly moved on today. The loss of two top order England wickets is at least one too many. Not over for England but definitely uphill from here. Lose two more in the first hour on day 4 and it'll only be a matter of time.


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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by alfie on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:06 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:England throwing away their hard work by letting a lower order bat hang around again I see

Beginning to think we may never dismiss Smith

Not sure it's fair to call it "England throwing it away". Have to credit Cummins who is a decent bat. Playing the sensible innings that Woakes - and Bairstow - failed to do yesterday ...this is an easy pitch against an old ball and Australia have executed the plan that England made but failed to see through : tire the bowlers and bat it out , never mind the run rate. England did it until 250/4 and then went nuts and threw away wickets .

Right now Australia will fancy 1-nil ; but even if it does go that way - and more so if England can force a draw (or even a win !) I think this match suggests England despite a lot of new players can at least compete.

Second Test is generally the one which tells where a series in Australia is going , actually.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by alfie on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:15 am

Re the Australian selections : I don't expect any changes for Adelaide whatever happens. Surely Bancroft gets at least a couple of games ; and S Marsh for all his good effort would be a risk at three even supposing Khawaja were to be punted on the strength of one error ! (I have never been a fan of Usman - I think he's the archetypal FTB - but since most Ts in Australia are F why not let him continue ?)

More interesting is the suggestion that Sayers might play in Adelaide : for whom ? Cummins was Australia's best pace bowler here and Hazlewood is the steady one (plus he's done the second innings damage)

I reckon it's a typical Australian smokescreen . Like last time when they talked up Adelaide as a home for two spinners ; then went with a raft of pace men and conned England into picking Panaesar as well as Swann...

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:15 am

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:England throwing away their hard work by letting a lower order bat hang around again I see

Beginning to think we may never dismiss Smith

Not sure it's fair to call it "England throwing it away". Have to credit Cummins who is a decent bat.  Playing the sensible innings that  Woakes - and Bairstow -  failed to do yesterday ...this is an easy pitch against an old ball and Australia have executed the plan that England made but failed to see through : tire the bowlers and bat it out , never mind the run rate.  England did it until 250/4 and then went nuts and threw away wickets .

Right now Australia will fancy 1-nil ; but even if it does go that way - and more so if England can force a draw (or even a win !) I think this match suggests England despite a lot of new players can at least compete.

Second Test is generally the one which tells where a series in Australia is going , actually.

Maybe. Having played well in parts and competed resolutely, a loss (if it happens) could be deflating for England and give even further confidence to their hosts.

PS Sorry about your game, Alfie. Thought your level was above that sort of shoddy behaviour.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:24 am

Advantage Australia in what is a gripping test match. Sure we are not getting high scores but it is all so tight and so tense with momentum swinging one way then the other.

If England can somehow still be batting by close of play tomorrow they will be right in there with a chance. For that to happen though they need another big score from Stoneman, Root to weigh in with a Smith-esque innings and good support from the middle and lower order. A big ask me thinks. At present I say the match is 60-40 in Australia's favour.

Even if England lose though they have already shown they can compete with Australia even without Stokes. The worries going forward will be Cook's poor form and Anderson's fitness.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by alfie on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:26 am

Hah ! Not sure what actually happened , guildford : on week one our club apparently couldn't raise an XI so offered a one day game this weekend (not an uncommon deal in our association - modern casual employment patterns etc ) and we believed all was on for today : but it seems there was a misunderstanding ...pity I was ready to go after recovery from injury furious Will leave it to the officials to determine Who has forfeited to Who...

As to the Test : yes if Australia force a win after being essentially outplayed for two and a half days it might affect morale on both sides. That is where we find out what the players - and management - have inside. I may be wrong but I think this lot have been picked largely on character and won't go down easy...
But I'm not calling this one yet. Still fancy the draw as I think this pitch is basically flat and and England bat deep despite the evidence of day two. Just need someone to weigh in with a big innings - show a bit of Smith patience.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by The Loaded Dog on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:30 am

alfie wrote:

More interesting is the suggestion that Sayers might play in Adelaide : for whom ?  Cummins was Australia's best pace bowler here and Hazlewood is the steady one (plus he's done the second innings damage)

I reckon it's a typical Australian smokescreen .  Like last time when they talked up Adelaide as a home for two spinners ; then went with a raft of pace men and conned England into picking Panaesar as well as Swann...

More interesting... yes definitely... but still highly unlikely. Someone would have to break down for that to happen.

If Khawaja fails miserably again then I do think the wailing will get louder for a replacement.

I'd almost forgotten the typical Australian smokescreen thing. Yes, that was a beauty! Very Happy
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:35 am

alfie wrote:What is this about an Anderson injury ?  Was watching at the club with no sound in between watching our fourths getting massacred on the adjacent ground and don't pick up on this ...

Blimey if we lose him before Adelaide I will believe this tour is doomed...

This was being mentioned just before lunch when I went to bed and again at the close of play when I rejoined things. The BT clowns had no proper idea although they were saying his movement didn't seem entirely free and were speculating he might have taken a knock whilst batting which was troubling him a bit. He ended his pre-lunch spell a little earlier than expected being replaced by Ball but didn't leave the field. He certainly bowled again in the subsequent sessions although I didn't see that.

Broad tried to play the matter down when Alison Mitchell spoke to him after play and emphasised how much his partner had bowled in the innings. However, she was hardly probing and seemed she would have been more confident talking about jam making.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:41 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:
alfie wrote:

More interesting is the suggestion that Sayers might play in Adelaide : for whom ?  Cummins was Australia's best pace bowler here and Hazlewood is the steady one (plus he's done the second innings damage)

I reckon it's a typical Australian smokescreen .  Like last time when they talked up Adelaide as a home for two spinners ; then went with a raft of pace men and conned England into picking Panaesar as well as Swann...

More interesting... yes definitely... but still highly unlikely. Someone would have to break down for that to happen.

If Khawaja fails miserably again then I do think the wailing will get louder for a replacement.

I'd almost forgotten the typical Australian smokescreen thing. Yes, that was a beauty! Very Happy

Yep, assuming the Australian fast men in this opening Test remain injury free, I can't see Sayers coming in.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by The Loaded Dog on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:51 am

alfie wrote:Hah !  Not sure what actually happened , guildford : on week one our club apparently couldn't raise an XI so  offered a one day game this weekend (not an uncommon deal in our association - modern casual employment patterns etc ) and we believed all was on for today : but it seems there was a misunderstanding ...pity I was ready to go after recovery from injury furious Will leave it to the officials to determine Who has forfeited to Who...

As to the Test : yes if Australia force a win after being essentially outplayed for two and a half days it might affect morale on both sides. That is where we find out what the players - and management - have inside.  I may be wrong but I think this lot have been picked largely on character and won't go down easy...
But I'm not calling this one yet.  Still fancy the draw as I think this pitch is basically flat and and England bat deep despite the evidence of day two. Just need someone to weigh in with a big innings  - show a bit of Smith patience.

I don't believe Australia have been outplayed for two and a half days though. Equally not sure they will go down easily either. It's has been one of those enthralling Tests whereby each side has had some ascendancy in alternative sessions... fairly even I'd say... up until this last session where Australia squeezed past to gain a lead; then struck a couple more significant blows with the wickets of Cook and Vince. As guildford noted: there was some moving happening late today in Australia's favour.

I believe Root is naturally a key wicket for Australia. He is your man of steel. Maybe Bairstow?

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by alfie on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 10:09 am

Outplayed might have been slightly overstating it. Perhaps I could suggest that at lunch on day three most people would have called England "ahead". Considering this is Fortress Australia and the general opinion going in was that England would be lucky to last three days you can perhaps forgive my marginal exaggeration Smile

I'd agree each team has had their sessions. I scored it as follows :
Day one : Even . England . Australia
Day two : Even . England . Australia.
Day three : England .Australia .Australia

(One could quibble with the morning session on day two : but although they were bowled out , England added 106 runs so I think it was closer to even than otherwise)

Not that any of this stuff means anything. Two wickets either way always changes everything...

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 10:34 am

I would have called it balanced throughout, until Cook and Vince went in quick succession.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by Duty281 on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 10:53 am

Inspirational from Steve Smith. He has played a patient, world-class, and probably match-winning innings.

It will be Root’s task to match that on day four.

Australia well ahead. Without a frontline spinner, and a huge question mark over Anderson, England will need a minimum of a 250 lead.

Australia’s pace bowling has been superb. Hostile and direct. Starc is right to be eager to bowl against England on a fast pitch, because this slow one is proving a struggle for the tourists.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by jimbohammers on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 11:15 am

Smith stepped up for the Aussies, now it's your time Joe Root.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by The Loaded Dog on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 11:48 am

alfie wrote:Outplayed might have been slightly overstating it.  Perhaps I could suggest that at lunch on day three most people would have called England "ahead".  Considering this is Fortress Australia and the general opinion going in was that England would be lucky to last three days you can perhaps forgive my marginal exaggeration  Smile

I'd agree each team has had their sessions. I scored it as follows :
Day one : Even . England . Australia
Day two : Even . England . Australia.
Day three : England .Australia .Australia

(One could quibble with the morning session on day two : but although they were bowled out , England added 106 runs so I think it was closer to even than otherwise)

Not that any of this stuff means anything.  Two wickets either way always changes everything...

Yeah, totally agree with you. Changes everything.

Nice visual presentation too , alfie. Looks very even indeed. England could have taken it away at one or two stages but they failed to really capitalise.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by LionsV2 on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 2:23 pm

Steffan wrote:Vaughan is a strange one

When the Ashes first test in 2009 was given to Cardiff he didn't criticise like many did and said it was a good thing as the Welsh crowd are passionate

Then the other week he mocked us on Twitter (twice) for failing to make Russia 2018

I think he just likes saying anything that will get him some attention

Yet we all have to tolerate your anti English bias on everything, oh well not everyone can reach the world cup angel angel

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 2:53 pm

The Loaded Dog wrote:
alfie wrote:Outplayed might have been slightly overstating it.  Perhaps I could suggest that at lunch on day three most people would have called England "ahead".  Considering this is Fortress Australia and the general opinion going in was that England would be lucky to last three days you can perhaps forgive my marginal exaggeration  Smile

I'd agree each team has had their sessions. I scored it as follows :
Day one : Even . England . Australia
Day two : Even . England . Australia.
Day three : England .Australia .Australia

(One could quibble with the morning session on day two : but although they were bowled out , England added 106 runs so I think it was closer to even than otherwise)

Not that any of this stuff means anything.  Two wickets either way always changes everything...

Yeah, totally agree with you. Changes everything.

Nice visual presentation too , alfie. Looks very even indeed. England could have taken it away at one or two stages but they failed to really capitalise.

Assessing how we stand though and England can take plenty of heart from how things have gone. Australia were the hot favourites coming in and this is their stronghold. Australia can thank one man for being where they are - skipper Steven Smith. Without his knock the picture would be far different today. England came in with big question marks over Stoneman, Vince and Malan all of whom have contributed whereas the class batsmen Cook and Root have yet to weigh in so when they do England may be able to build a very strong score. Key in this series will be Cook and Root finding their best form and them working out ways to get Smith out cheaply. Do that and I fancy England are well in this series.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 3:20 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:
alfie wrote:Outplayed might have been slightly overstating it.  Perhaps I could suggest that at lunch on day three most people would have called England "ahead".  Considering this is Fortress Australia and the general opinion going in was that England would be lucky to last three days you can perhaps forgive my marginal exaggeration  Smile

I'd agree each team has had their sessions. I scored it as follows :
Day one : Even . England . Australia
Day two : Even . England . Australia.
Day three : England .Australia .Australia

(One could quibble with the morning session on day two : but although they were bowled out , England added 106 runs so I think it was closer to even than otherwise)

Not that any of this stuff means anything.  Two wickets either way always changes everything...

Yeah, totally agree with you. Changes everything.

Nice visual presentation too , alfie. Looks very even indeed. England could have taken it away at one or two stages but they failed to really capitalise.

Assessing how we stand though and England can take plenty of heart from how things have gone. Australia were the hot favourites coming in and this is their stronghold. Australia can thank one man for being where they are - skipper Steven Smith. Without his knock the picture would be far different today. England came in with big question marks over Stoneman, Vince and Malan all of whom have contributed whereas the class batsmen Cook and Root have yet to weigh in so when they do England may be able to build a very strong score. Key in this series will be Cook and Root finding their best form and them working out ways to get Smith out cheaply. Do that and I fancy England are well in this series.

Craig - possibly beating Olly to the question, I'll ask how do you suggest we do that?

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 3:28 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:
alfie wrote:Outplayed might have been slightly overstating it.  Perhaps I could suggest that at lunch on day three most people would have called England "ahead".  Considering this is Fortress Australia and the general opinion going in was that England would be lucky to last three days you can perhaps forgive my marginal exaggeration  Smile

I'd agree each team has had their sessions. I scored it as follows :
Day one : Even . England . Australia
Day two : Even . England . Australia.
Day three : England .Australia .Australia

(One could quibble with the morning session on day two : but although they were bowled out , England added 106 runs so I think it was closer to even than otherwise)

Not that any of this stuff means anything.  Two wickets either way always changes everything...

Yeah, totally agree with you. Changes everything.

Nice visual presentation too , alfie. Looks very even indeed. England could have taken it away at one or two stages but they failed to really capitalise.

Assessing how we stand though and England can take plenty of heart from how things have gone. Australia were the hot favourites coming in and this is their stronghold. Australia can thank one man for being where they are - skipper Steven Smith. Without his knock the picture would be far different today. England came in with big question marks over Stoneman, Vince and Malan all of whom have contributed whereas the class batsmen Cook and Root have yet to weigh in so when they do England may be able to build a very strong score. Key in this series will be Cook and Root finding their best form and them working out ways to get Smith out cheaply. Do that and I fancy England are well in this series.

Craig - possibly beating Olly to the question, I'll ask how do you suggest we do that?

Fair question and very difficult to answer. Smith is the best batsman in the world at present and we saw why in that first innings. England tried various ploys that didn't work. I think the best chance comes when he is new to the crease. If circumstances allow then get him whilst the ball is relatively new with a snorter of a delivery from Anderson or Broad whilst he is still trying to settle. Once he is in he is like a rock. I do notice he tends to step across his wicket a lot so strategic use of a yorker or two may be a good idea.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 4:22 pm

Craig - yes, it (how to get Smith out cheaply) is a very difficult question to even attempt to answer. That's a large reason why I'm not currently feeling too optimistic even though we have competed pretty well.

On a separate concern, our support bowlers (ie outside of Anderson and Broad) will also need to do better than in Australia's first innings. We have more quantity than Australia but the signs are there's less quality.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 4:23 pm

Aus got the ~30ish lead that I predicted Very Happy
Inpsite of their top and lower order batting as badly as they would

Pitch has quickened and bouncier and Aus bowler have the pace to make Eng hop, skip & jump
and Lyon still getting sharp turn

Eng's task is cut out .....get 300 to make a game out of it....
very hard though
a crash to get bowled out for 150dd is more likely
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 4:38 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Craig - yes, it (how to get Smith out cheaply) is a very difficult question to even attempt to answer. That's a large reason why I'm not currently feeling too optimistic even though we have competed pretty well.

On a separate concern, our support bowlers (ie outside of Anderson and Broad) will also need to do better than in Australia's first innings. We have more quantity than Australia but the signs are there's less quality.

Well if you want cheering up just think back to the opener in the 2013 Ashes series down under when England were totally blown away. That hasn't happened here.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 4:43 pm

KP_fan wrote:Aus got the ~30ish lead that I predicted Very Happy
Inpsite of their top and lower order batting as badly as they would

Pitch has quickened and bouncier and Aus bowler have the pace to make Eng hop, skip & jump
and Lyon still getting sharp turn

Eng's task is cut out .....get 300 to make a game out of it....
very hard though
a crash to get bowled out for 150dd is more  likely

If England make 300 it will be a nailed on certain draw. The scoring rate in both innings has been around 2.5 runs an over and I don't see that changing. If England make 300 it won't be reached until well into the final day and no way will Australia make 300 in less than a day.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by KP_fan on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 4:51 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Aus got the ~30ish lead that I predicted Very Happy
Inpsite of their top and lower order batting as badly as they would

Pitch has quickened and bouncier and Aus bowler have the pace to make Eng hop, skip & jump
and Lyon still getting sharp turn

Eng's task is cut out .....get 300 to make a game out of it....
very hard though
a crash to get bowled out for 150dd is more  likely

If England make 300 it will be a nailed on certain draw. The scoring rate in both innings has been around 2.5 runs an over and I don't see that changing. If England make 300 it won't be reached until well into the final day and no way will Australia make 300 in less than a day.

if Eng get to 300....aus will have about 80 overs to bat on D5 ...Eng can have attacking fields....and Aus will be bowled out
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 4:57 pm

KP_fan wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Aus got the ~30ish lead that I predicted Very Happy
Inpsite of their top and lower order batting as badly as they would

Pitch has quickened and bouncier and Aus bowler have the pace to make Eng hop, skip & jump
and Lyon still getting sharp turn

Eng's task is cut out .....get 300 to make a game out of it....
very hard though
a crash to get bowled out for 150dd is more  likely

If England make 300 it will be a nailed on certain draw. The scoring rate in both innings has been around 2.5 runs an over and I don't see that changing. If England make 300 it won't be reached until well into the final day and no way will Australia make 300 in less than a day.

if Eng get to 300....aus will have about 80 overs to bat on D5 ...Eng can have attacking fields....and Aus will be bowled out

Yes there is that unlikely scenario. I would say the best England can hope for is setting a target of around 200 - unless Root can weigh in with a big score and get lkengthy support from the rest of the batting line-up.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by LivinginItaly on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 5:01 pm

Australia esentially had two big partnerships both including Smith. England need to have two or three partnerships to put the pressure on Australia. It is time for Root and Bairstow and Moeen to step up to the plate.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by Duty281 on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 5:58 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Craig - yes, it (how to get Smith out cheaply) is a very difficult question to even attempt to answer. That's a large reason why I'm not currently feeling too optimistic even though we have competed pretty well.

Root’s answer appears to be bowl negatively and hope Smith plays a careless shot as a result of frustration.

Unfortunately for Root, Smith has the patience of a chess grandmaster.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 6:43 pm

CalCraig. I'm a pint-half-full man for England in this match. Normally at Brisbane we've pretty much lost after the first day, or at least day two. Exception was 2010/11 when Eng batted it out.
   Ahead after three days with eight wickets left is not a bad position. Of course, we could all wake up tomorrow and find England have been blown away and the Test has not even made it into the 5th day. But let's be optimistic here.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by The Loaded Dog on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:10 pm

Duty281 wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Craig - yes, it (how to get Smith out cheaply) is a very difficult question to even attempt to answer. That's a large reason why I'm not currently feeling too optimistic even though we have competed pretty well.

Root’s answer appears to be bowl negatively and hope Smith plays a careless shot as a result of frustration.

Unfortunately for Root, Smith has the patience of a chess grandmaster.

Joe has done a pretty good job captaining though; given the more limited options he has had available in the bowling department.

He has had to try and be inventive to set aggressively tempting fields... did you see the 9-0 leg side field? It's never been seen before apparently.
The idea of playing straight at Smith's leg stump when he is hopping across the crease required an unusual field setting. That was brilliant I thought.

It was just that Smith however, was up to it and somehow able to fend off multiple deliveries and score runs (at a record-breaking low run rate) with whomever was up the other end.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 11:28 pm

For me in the morning session England cannot afford to lose more than two wickets. Get to lunch on around 100 for 3 then tea for around 180 for 5 would leave them really well-placed. However, unless Root can dig in and get ample support I think it is more likely that England could be bowled out for that amount.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 11:57 pm

Play about to start in what could be THE pivotal session.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 11:58 pm

I think Steven Smith deserves a big clap, despite his quite sensational Test career, he's far too often been belittled. Strange technique, won't score runs in countries x, y or z with his technique. But he seems to have all the answers at this moment in time.

Of the top my head there are 6 batmen averaging 50+ in Test cricket presently(2000 runs minimum): Smith 61.23, Pujara 53.77, Root 53.43, Williamson 51.10, Kohli 50.69 and de Villiers 50.46.

It's staggering to think that Smith's averaging nearly 11 runs more than someone like de Villiers whom is considered one of the all time greats.

It's also the phenomenal rate at which Smith scores his centuries.

Smith 21 hundreds in 105 innings/ every 5 innings
de Villiers 21 hundreds in 178 innings/ every 8.46 innings
Kohli 18 hundreds in 104 innings/ every 5.77 innings
Williamson 17 hundreds in 110 innings/ every 6.47 innings
Pujura 14 hundreds in 88 innings/ every 6.28 innings
Root 13 hundreds in 112 innings/ every 8.61 innings

Smith literally blowing de Villiers away again. Staggering.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:04 am

First over passes without incident.England 37 for 2 (effectively 11 for 2).
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:14 am

England off to as good a start as they could wish England 49 for 2 (lead by 23) with Root 19 and Stoneman 21.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:28 am

England now lead by 26 and are 52 for 2.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by Duty281 on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:34 am

Tame start by the Aussies.

Lyon on now. I reckon he'll be the key bowler today. No England batsman played him confidently in the first innings.

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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:39 am

Stoneman edges it through slips for 4. England 59 for 2. Lead by 33.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:41 am

Yes a tame start by the Aussies. No short stuff and precious little hostility. Odd.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:50 am

Lyon strikes. Stoneman caught at first slip exits for 27. England 62 for 3.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:51 am

The first time in six innings on this tour that Stoneman has failed to bag a half century. England lead by 36.
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Re: The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

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