The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

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The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Pal Joey on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 10:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

5th Test Sydney, January 4-8, 2017 (23:30 GMT Jan 3)

Australia:
Bancroft, Warner, Khawaja, Smith *, S Marsh, M Marsh, Paine †, Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Hazelwood

England:
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root *, Malan, Bairstow †, Ali, Curran, Broad, Crane, Anderson



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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 9:00 pm

I’d love to see us with another opener and Stoneman at 3.

Vince seems a 5 to me, although I’m a little unsure we can push him down there with Bairstow who isn’t also protected from being top order cos of his flair.

I’d stick with him, but he’s a worry. Agree with Ed Smith who said Vince’s problems arent likely to be solved because it’s personality and attitude, and it hasnt changed a jot since he played tests, whilst saying at least Stoneman’s issues are technical things he could tweak.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 9:17 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I’d love to see us with another opener and Stoneman at 3.

Vince seems a 5 to me, although I’m a little unsure we can push him down there with Bairstow who isn’t also protected from being top order cos of his flair.

I’d stick with him, but he’s a worry. Agree with Ed Smith who said Vince’s problems arent likely to be solved because it’s personality and attitude, and it hasnt changed a jot since he played tests, whilst saying at least Stoneman’s issues are technical things he could tweak.

Yes Stoneman would be better suited at no 3. Depends on Hameed stepping up to the plate as opener or give Hales another run. He wasn't a total disaster there. As for Vince drop him down and move Malan up. My only reservation is that Vince has mental issues and moving him down the order is not going to alleviate that problem.
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 10:17 pm

If Stoneman at the age of 30 can still be coached into a test class opener does that mean Hales, Root, Carberry, Robson, Jennings, Compton, Lyth, Hameed, Trott, Duckett, and Moeen all had a bad attitude or are our coaches just really lazy?


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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 10:19 pm

I think it means Stoneman has a minor issue and the mentality and the others weren’t suited

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 11:30 pm

Wow... that was a ripper! Smith takes a screamer to dismiss Malan off Starc.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 11:31 pm

There’s the test

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by eirebilly on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 11:31 pm

Superb catch from Smith removes Malan. England were looking much more controlled until that wicket.

I have a feeling Moeen Ali will try to cut loose now to bring up the 300.
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by eirebilly on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 11:35 pm

Smith's catch just gets better every time I see the replay clap
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by eirebilly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:09 am

Curran dropped but he is batting very well.
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by eirebilly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:10 am

Hazelwood drops an absolute sitter, that is a very poor drop o.O
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:10 am

That’s the worst drop I’ve ever seen

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:12 am

Let’s hope those cost them

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:22 am

Geoffrey seems in a good mood with lots of man love for Curran as he admires his ''spirit''. The Surrey youngster is again not overawed by the occasion.

Brilliant catch from Smith earlier as others have said. Malan can feel very unlucky, not just that but subsequent drops giving Moeen and Curran extra lives. Very poor miss from Hazelwood off Cummins to reprieve Moeen. I know many don't like Boycs but he was absolutely on the money that it was daft of Moeen to try and get after Cummins from the first ball rather than wait a few moments and judge things better.

300 looking in sight with 4 wickets still left. A bit jammy for us so far this morning but the runs are being put on the board.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by eirebilly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:25 am

Guildford, Curran has batted very well. His only indiscretion was trying to hit Lyon for 6 and he was dropped, other than that he has batted with great maturity.
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:26 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:That’s the worst drop I’ve ever seen

Dolph - if you're ever my way, I'll introduce you to my old playing colleague Parachute Pinder, so called because ''everything lands safely''. Very Happy

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by jimbohammers on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:26 am

Very impressed with Curran. Hope he keeps going.

With Graeme Swann + Alison Mitchell back on comms, that's me calling it a night.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by eirebilly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:29 am

jimbohammers wrote:Very impressed with Curran. Hope he keeps going.

With Graeme Swann + Alison Mitchell back on comms, that's me calling it a night.

Swann is cringworthy but Alison Mitchell is absolutely dire...
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:31 am

Ali's glove gives Cummins' delivery the kiss of death.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by eirebilly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:33 am

Would David Boon have caught Broad first ball then LD? Wink
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:35 am

eirebilly wrote:Would David Boon have caught Broad first ball then LD? Wink

Yeah of course mate.
There was a silly movie on the other night "Backyard Ashes" where if you hit the ball into a square shaped bush in a pot (The Boony Bush) you were out! Laugh

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:37 am

That was a good ball from Cummins to get Moen caught behind. Quick and rising.  I suppose he should have kept his bat down and moved his head further back but the ball did seem to be moving in on him ... and easier to say from the comfort of my armchair!

Mitch Marsh now on. Rather surprised by that. Maybe Smith feels Curran will get over confident against Marsh's medium pace filth and give it away. So far, as Billy* says, a good and valuable knock from Curran. We could obviously do with a sensible innings from Broad and another useful partnership.

Edit: and Jimbo! Very Happy

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by eirebilly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:39 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Would David Boon have caught Broad first ball then LD? Wink

Yeah of course mate.
There was a silly movie on the other night "Backyard Ashes" where if you hit the ball into a square shaped bush in a pot (The Boony Bush) you were out! Laugh

laughing

The keg on legs, never a better short leg fielder thumbsup
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:43 am

What time is lunch, folks?

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by eirebilly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:46 am

6 for Broad, he and Curran look to attack. Stay in and 350 may come up very quickly...


Or 330 AO Very Happy
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:46 am

12:30... 44 minutes, guildford.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:54 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:12:30... 44 minutes, guildford.

Cheers, LD. Thought it might have been 12:15. Long morning session then.

Meanwhile, good runs for England from Curran and Broad which must be very annoying from an Australian perspective.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by eirebilly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:55 am

This is great to watch, lads just going for it thumbsup
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:57 am

guildfordbat wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:12:30... 44 minutes, guildford.

Cheers, LD. Thought it might have been 12:15. Long morning session then.

Meanwhile, good runs for England from Curran and Broad which must be very annoying from an Australian perspective.

You're telling me! Smile It's not the first and it won't be the last time this happens either.

Kind of like watching Broad swinging the bat.... great viewing. For you especially, mate.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by eirebilly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 1:05 am

Top innings from Curran, really very good clap
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 1:18 am

9 down as Lyon finally gets a deserved wicket, Broad going for a big hit and just knocking it up to be taken comfortably by Smith.

I guess lunch could be even later now if the last wicket is still there at 12:30!

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 1:20 am

Not with that run out.

Lunch. England all out 346

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 1:26 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:Not with that run out.

Lunch. England all out 346

Yeah, comic cuts run out.

Michael Hussey was making a valid point a few minutes ago - England's total is probably par at best but it at least ''gives us something to work with''.

With that, I'll retire. Back in the morning when I expect you guys to have come up with some wickets for me. Wink Night all.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Duty281 on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 1:29 am

England light by about 100 runs.

Some proper bowling needed to get them back in it.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 1:35 am

So England bowled out for 346. They did well to get that from where they were but feel they are a minimum of 100 short of what they could/should have posted on this pitch.
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by alfie on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 1:51 am

More than I thought they'd get - especially with Malan falling early to what I understand was a remarkable catch ... but seems a little light still. Good to see some tail wagging at least.
What is there for the bowlers , I wonder ? A lot on the main pair , you'd imagine as I wouldn't think spin will play a big part just yet. Really need to stop Australia running up a monster total - but I guess we shall see as the day(s) wear on whether this is to be another Brisbane ... or a Perth ...or conceivably a reverse Melbourne ...


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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by alfie on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 4:20 am

Even middle session. Bancroft a duck and Warner a fifty- nothing new. Khawaja allegedly a little uneasy - also nothing new ; but he's still there.
Smith is in ghost

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by No name Bertie on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 4:48 am

Was Moeen rushed back too quickly following his side injury? He seems to be very slowly improving throughout this Ashes. Maybe the English selectors thought they had no alternative but to rush him back. Some have criticised this tour (and other tours) for not having a proper acclimatising period for the fit English cricketers to get used to the Australian conditions. For those unfit English cricketers perhaps rushed back into the side, such as Moeen, there was even less time to acclimatise to conditions or perhaps even to get to match fitness.

Or maybe Moeen and others are just not that good in these conditions ... and so a longer period of acclimatisation would not have affected the results?

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 6:53 am

No name Bertie wrote:Was Moeen rushed back too quickly following his side injury?  He seems to be very slowly improving throughout this Ashes.  Maybe the English selectors thought they had no alternative but to rush him back.  Some have criticised this tour (and other tours) for not having a proper acclimatising period for the fit English cricketers to get used to the Australian conditions.  For those unfit English cricketers perhaps rushed back into the side, such as Moeen, there was even less time to acclimatise to conditions or perhaps even to get to match fitness.

Or maybe Moeen and others are just not that good in these conditions ... and so a longer period of acclimatisation would not have affected the results?

not really...its much more confidence with moeen. hes bowled awfuly on all surfaces in this series, and his batting was best in the first test.

it took till the 4th test for England to be in the series....fifth test they are getting hammered again. We should all be acclimatised to the simple fact that they just arent good enough.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by alfie on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 6:56 am

Khawaja and Smith take it to stumps with a hundred stand...

Looking ominous for England unless they can grab a couple early tomorrow . Weather getting warmer and they might be bowling for a while by the look of things. Some tidy bowling : but , as all summer , you get the feeling that whenever Anderson and Broad aren't bowling the batsmen are not under much threat...though Moeen looked a bit better today , I thought.
Saw a bit of Crane ; OK I guess but can't say he looks exactly menacing . Might enjoy bowling on day five but if Australia go big enough they might not need a second innings ...

Wonder what the bookies are offering on a Smith century ?

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 6:59 am

No name Bertie wrote:Was Moeen rushed back too quickly following his side injury?  He seems to be very slowly improving throughout this Ashes.  Maybe the English selectors thought they had no alternative but to rush him back.  Some have criticised this tour (and other tours) for not having a proper acclimatising period for the fit English cricketers to get used to the Australian conditions.  For those unfit English cricketers perhaps rushed back into the side, such as Moeen, there was even less time to acclimatise to conditions or perhaps even to get to match fitness.

Or maybe Moeen and others are just not that good in these conditions ... and so a longer period of acclimatisation would not have affected the results?

I think it’s pretty well noted they played Moeen in those first two tests when he wasn’t fully fit - but due to not selecting Rashid/Dawson as backup, and with no Stokes, they had no real option to not play him...
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 7:11 am

I was working so omly caught passages of the play. At least Crane was finding edges and had appeals unlike Ali. Ali was more economical (just) but less threatening.
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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by LivinginItaly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 7:24 am

In my opinion the main difference between the two sides can be summarised by looking at the last 15 minutes of day one and comparing with the last 15 minutes of day two. We went from 220-3 To 230-5 yesterday (and it wasn't a big surprise), whilst they went from 180- 2 to 190-2. It is not the first time this series we have lost key wickets just before breaks, or just after breaks. We also seem to lose wickets just as a partnership is developing nicely after weathering a difficult period. Many partnerships have brought us back into the game, but none have really gone on to dominate the game or put us in an impregnable position. What am I wittering on about? Our batsmen don't seem to have the mental ability (Cook aside) to play a long innings, and even when they are in with more than 50 on the board it seems they are still only one silly shot away from giving it all away. In contrast when the Australian batsmen are well set they seem immovable, and invariable go on to make important contributions.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 7:41 am

Italy...aus getting the new ball in the hands of two of the best fast bowlers in the world vs england trying to see out a mid innings ball with Moeen and a part time bowler may have played a big part in the difference between those 15 minute periods too.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by LivinginItaly on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 8:09 am

Gooseberry wrote:Italy...aus getting the new ball in the hands of two of the best fast bowlers in the world vs england trying to see out a mid innings ball with Moeen and a part time bowler may have played a big part in the difference between those 15 minute periods too.

True, I had forgotten that they had just taken the new ball, but Root and Malan were both well set.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by KP_fan on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 8:18 am

here's my thoughts on D2

--except the one that Lyon claimed.....all of Eng's wickets this morning fell to dug-in effort balls...including the delivery that achieved a Run out

--there isn't any movement in the pitch nor any spin......and except Broad no one else looks capable of producing those dig-in balls....and Broad can only do it a few times

Ali is expectedly ineffective after Lyon got nothing out of the pitch

--Had a close look at Mason Crane...an honest trier but not a great prospect

He does not deliver his leg spin side on but rather front on i.e full body facing the batsman after the delivery

Means he is not pivoting on his left heel....and rotating his body another 90deg so as to finish with his body facing cover
This means less rip and revs and hence no booming leg-breaks, less side spin, less over spin , less variations in flight and less likely to bowl flippers.....not a big turning googly and easier  to pick his googly for the batsmen

All good leggies I have seen Qadir, Hirwani, Warne,  Mustaq, Kaneria and Kumble were all side on
In general all successful leggies and SLAs are side on using the additional 90degree rotation of the body to get more spin and variations by finishing side-on
(Although Kumble used the pivot to impart topspin than classical leg spin)

--On the match itself Aus set to get a reasonable lead as its hard to see how Eng will take 10 wickets
The only time Eng had an ascendancy was when they had 4 played ons in a row in T4
But they can get lucky tomm and Crane could pick some lucky wickets and trigger a collapse


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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by alfie on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 8:44 am

Depressing view , KP_f Smile

Look it isn't all over (yet) . It's true there isn't a lot for the bowlers at the moment but the batsmen ( other than Smith) are only human so good bowling tomorrow might yet induce errors - as in Melbourne. The new ball isn't that far away. If England could restrict the Australian lead to under 100 they'd not be out of it as batting last might be a bit interesting if the heat of Sunday causes the pitch to crack up.
I'd rather be in the home team's dressing room at the moment but am not calling the game yet.



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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 9:12 am

alfie wrote:More than I thought they'd get - especially with Malan falling early to what I understand was a remarkable catch ... but seems a little light still.  Good to see some tail wagging at least.
What is there for the bowlers , I wonder ?  A lot on the main pair , you'd imagine as I wouldn't think spin will play a big part just yet. Really need to stop Australia running up a monster total - but I guess we shall see as the day(s) wear on whether this is to be another Brisbane ... or a Perth ...or conceivably a reverse Melbourne ...



Certainly light, but very much down to a failure of the top 6 that they are so much short. Given the length of the England tail and both Moeens struggles its up there as a high end target from where they left off the previous day though.

What we have seen today was all too predictable, except perhaps Khawaja being able to play spin.
From what I can piece together from TMS this morning, highlights and reports  Broad and Anderson were threatening with the new ball and couldve taken more early but faded quickly ... looked knackered and quickly lost that threat, Curran has been gentle and easy to play, Moeens still bowling junk , Cranes looked technicaly good and the pitch is offering some spin but the Aussies have batted with discpline and found it easy to pick him off without offering real chances. They havent gone after him and risked chucking away their wickets, they dont need to. Theres not enough in the pitch and he isnt that good that he can force wickets through unplayable balls. 
Smith is just the ultimate first innings run machine. Its maybe not the most challenging attack but hes shown that his technique and mentality is exactly what the England batsmen are missing....consitency and metholdical ability to pick apart any type of bowling with low risk. Without a bowler or pitch able to produce unpredictable movement or genuine pace England are really up against it prise him out.

Whilst the pitch is giving something and its only day 2 its clearly not a two spinners wicket when you can bowl 72 overs with only a tail ender playing suicide cricket whos fallen to it. The spinners arent that bad and the batsmen arent that good. Youd think that Crane will eventually start to do some damage, and (being optimistic that there is one) should have a golden opportunity to get wickets in Australias second innings...although its highly unlikley he will get a chance to cash in and flatter his figures on day 5 against the tail. Showing he can get the likes of Smith and Warner out when set and not trying to smash him would tell us a lot more about his potential for test cricket though (and for all Ive poured scorn on Curran and the  reserve lions 4th seamer hes done that on a slow low pitch) ... the opportunities there to turn mildling patronising praise into concrete results.


Australia look well set for the win, its hard to see how they wont egt a substantial fuirst innings lead and how England will get enough runs on the board to give themsleves a hope of taking 20 wickets late spin or not.
That will sum up the series...Englands bowlers have lacked threat on any type of wicket, Australias batsmen ( Smith in particular) have had the discpline to bat long and not chuck their wickets away.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:56 pm

I've said before that I like David Lloyd as a pundit (at least when he resists the urge to play the clown). Not surprisingly, I also liked this view from him today:
''I knew the debate about nightwatchmen would begin as soon as Jonny Bairstow got out. They work about five per cent of the time. It encourages the opposition to think an easy wicket is coming, then there's more pressure on the next man in. Good on him for taking on the responsibility and not handing it to a bloke who's half as good as him.''

As always, it's a game of opinions and there's no expectation on my part for others to go along with Lloyd or me. I also respect Alfie's view about retaining flexibility in the situation and accept that his call at the end of day one would have been right or at least better than mine. I just believe experience and the percentages back up the approach taken by myself and clearly favoured by Lloyd. Gain points for consistency or lose points for pigheadedness there? Take your pick! Smile

What I do find unacceptable is Swann starting the debate and lambasting the decision only when Bairstow was out. Without naming names, Lloyd says pretty much the same in his opening sentence.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 3:23 pm

Just watched highlights of Australia's innings. I thought Moeen bowled better (or as goose would probably put it - less rubbish Wink ) than in much of this series. Unlike KP-f, I'm not sufficiently confident or skilled to give a technical analysis of leg spin bowling so I won't say much about Crane other than I thought he did ok without much luck.

I liked Khawaja's innings. What he lacked in elegance, he made up for in grit. He always gave the impression of wanting to walk out again the next morning. I hope Vince was looking and learning.

My view is that we're not totally out of it yet but are certainly a couple of wickets light. Probably going to need to restrict Australia to a lead of under 50 to stay in with a sniff.

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

Post by jimbohammers on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 10:11 pm

Crane looked good from the highlights i saw. Had some chances, a couple of edges just dropping short.

Does anyone know if it starts at 11pm again UK time?

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Re: The Ashes: 5th Test, Sydney

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