England - Summer Tour

First topic message reminder :

After an "interesting" 6n...and with the Lions tour possibly going ahead, England have a chance to send a young Saxons side full of talent on the Summer tour to USA and Canada (if Covid permits)

They have 4 games pencilled in...

12th June; England v Barbarians (Suggestions it wont go ahead)

10th July; Scotland v England
17th July; USA v England
24th July; Canada v England

So looking to the future and the AI's who would you take on the tour? Assuming its 32/33 squad size.

I see they are now talking about the Bristol Winger Naulaga....as he is with the british Army so eligible for England.

lostinwales wrote:Way way too early but Saints have just signed a cousin of Nadolo to their senior academy.

Duane Ratu Willemsen is apparently 6'6'' and 128kg (just love the mixed units) and is apparently England qualified. Grew up in Australia and has been playing in the NRL prior to signing with Saints.

Pivac tracking his plane as we speak just in case he flies over Wales first

BamBam wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Way way too early but Saints have just signed a cousin of Nadolo to their senior academy.

Duane Ratu Willemsen is apparently 6'6'' and 128kg (just love the mixed units) and is apparently England qualified. Grew up in Australia and has been playing in the NRL prior to signing with Saints.

Pivac tracking his plane as we speak just in case he flies over Wales first

GeordieFalcon wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Way way too early but Saints have just signed a cousin of Nadolo to their senior academy.

Duane Ratu Willemsen is apparently 6'6'' and 128kg (just love the mixed units) and is apparently England qualified. Grew up in Australia and has been playing in the NRL prior to signing with Saints.

How is he English qualified?

I don't know and have been trying to find out, but all the articles I saw said England qualified. He holds an Australian passport.

English mum maybe?

It should be a couple of years before we need to worry about it though. I don't even know what position he plays, but with a background in basketball and NRL he should have good hands

Atkinson keeps getting mentioned all over to tour in the 10 role.

I know almost nothing about the lad? Whats the crack with him? Is he a controlling 10 or an off the cuff playmaker etc?

GeordieFalcon wrote:I see they are now talking about the Bristol Winger Naulaga....as he is with the british Army so eligible for England.

Being in the army qualifies you for England?

Yes it does 7.5...ala Rokoduguni also.

Thoyght rokodunguni qualified through residency? Presumably he qualifies for Ireland Scotland and Wales as well then.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Thoyght rokodunguni qualified through residency? Presumably he qualifies for Ireland Scotland and Wales as well then.

Yes I believe that is the case.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Thoyght rokodunguni qualified through residency? Presumably he qualifies for Ireland Scotland and Wales as well then.

Yeah Roko did, but also as a member of the Armed Forces...

its actually not a rule i like however if you are prepared to go to War for England (Britain) then i guess you qualify to play rugby.

Im not sure how it works for the other nations but i guess it makes him eligible for Wales and Scotland also.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Atkinson keeps getting mentioned all over to tour in the 10 role.

I know almost nothing about the lad? Whats the crack with him? Is he a controlling 10 or an off the cuff playmaker etc?

Maybe slightly biased here Geordie but Charlie is a real talent. He has it all a great step, good defensively and a cultured left foot.
It would be great to see both Charlie and Jacob get to tour in the summer.

Cheers Trev. Ill keep an eye on him

GeordieFalcon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Thoyght rokodunguni qualified through residency? Presumably he qualifies for Ireland Scotland and Wales as well then.

Yeah Roko did, but also as a member of the Armed Forces...

its actually not a rule i like however if you are prepared to go to War for England (Britain) then i guess you qualify to play rugby.

Im not sure how it works for the other nations but i guess it makes him eligible for Wales and Scotland also.

I don't mind it as a rule to be honest, much prefer it to the three year residency nonsense. He joined the army in 2007 and didn't play for England until 2014, that's seven years of residency anyway.

Thats true Soul, i think Nalagu has been here for quite a long time aswell.

lostinwales wrote:Way way too early but Saints have just signed a cousin of Nadolo to their senior academy.

Duane Ratu Willemsen is apparently 6'6'' and 128kg (just love the mixed units) and is apparently England qualified. Grew up in Australia and has been playing in the NRL prior to signing with Saints.

At the same time Saints have promoted 5 other academy players to full time contracts, three of them are only 18 and are 6'6" (back row) 6'7" (lock) and 6' 8" (lock) and at that age still growing. What do they feed them on Northampton?

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Way way too early but Saints have just signed a cousin of Nadolo to their senior academy.

Duane Ratu Willemsen is apparently 6'6'' and 128kg (just love the mixed units) and is apparently England qualified. Grew up in Australia and has been playing in the NRL prior to signing with Saints.

At the same time Saints have promoted 5 other academy players to full time contracts, three of them are only 18 and are 6'6" (back row) 6'7" (lock) and 6' 8" (lock) and at that age still growing. What do they feed them on Northampton?

Soylent Green

I'd rather we look at sam james than devoto.

May be more general England comments but for various reasons the form English qualified players in the Premiership and the England squad have rather diverged, the Saracens situation not helping.  The summer tour should try to bring the groups more back together - the England squad should be based more on the best players in the Premiership.

Though there seem a lot of young, goodish nines coming through I would still like to see Ben Spencer given a proper chance as he always looks good for Bath.

As a left-field option, Sam Simmonds to play 20 minutes at 12 even though he could also play in the back-row. If he played 8, then he may need more bulk on the flanks than England normally provide.

I would still like Ted Hill be given a chance - he has been somewhat suppressed this year but Worcester may not be the easiest team to express oneself.

Marcus Smith looks the best young 10 BUT I think if he had been playing instead of Ford in the 6N's things might have been worse.  For him to flourish there needs to be a change of ideas.  Ford is good/very good player who seems totally drained of any confidence and has been told to follow orders.

Im not sure if its been mentioned in the thread but the ‘tour’ isn’t a tour anymore.
The games will be played in the UK because of restrictions in Canada and the US.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Im not sure if its been mentioned in the thread but the ‘tour’ isn’t a tour anymore.
The games will be played in the UK because of restrictions in Canada and the US.

Didn't know that, and it's a bit disappointing.  I suppose the very recent spike in Covid numbers in the US and more so in Canada makes it necessary.  The US is actually doing quite well with their vaccinations right now and I think their Covid numbers will drop by June, but Canada is far behind.  Still, if the matches go forward I would like to see players who are young and pushing for spots get their turns.

I think I'd be starting Joe Simmonds on the tour.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think I'd be starting Joe Simmonds on the tour.

I'd be rotating the two, him and Smith. Give them both a shot to show what they can do.

The back three options for the games are looking ridiculous with Freeman coming through nicely at 15 now along with Parton and Steward. The wing options are even more bonkers with more young guys stepping up each week.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think I'd be starting Joe Simmonds on the tour.

Smith for me, I wouldn't put Simmonds in the squad personally.

Knowing Eddie, it'll be Youngs/Ford at halfback.

doctor_grey wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Way way too early but Saints have just signed a cousin of Nadolo to their senior academy.

Duane Ratu Willemsen is apparently 6'6'' and 128kg (just love the mixed units) and is apparently England qualified. Grew up in Australia and has been playing in the NRL prior to signing with Saints.

At the same time Saints have promoted 5 other academy players to full time contracts, three of them are only 18 and are 6'6" (back row) 6'7" (lock) and 6' 8" (lock) and at that age still growing. What do they feed them on Northampton?

Soylent Green

I think that even modern day nutritionist would draw the line there. It might be t=your grandfather your eating.

That's going back a bit Doc, you must be older than I thought, it wasn't exactly a blockbuster.

Ollie Sleightholme must be in with a shout the way he is tearing up the premiership defences, try a game at the moment.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Ollie Sleightholme must be in with a shout the way he is tearing up the premiership defences, try a game at the moment.

He played very well for saints against Ulster last night.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Way way too early but Saints have just signed a cousin of Nadolo to their senior academy.

Duane Ratu Willemsen is apparently 6'6'' and 128kg (just love the mixed units) and is apparently England qualified. Grew up in Australia and has been playing in the NRL prior to signing with Saints.

At the same time Saints have promoted 5 other academy players to full time contracts, three of them are only 18 and are 6'6" (back row) 6'7" (lock) and 6' 8" (lock) and at that age still growing. What do they feed them on Northampton?

Soylent Green

I think that even modern day nutritionist would draw the line there. It might be t=your grandfather your eating.

That's going back a bit Doc, you must be older than I thought, it wasn't exactly a blockbuster.

It's the key to a high protein diet. It was a formative part of my younger days, along with Monty Python, Blazing Saddles, Benny Hill, The Persuaders, and so on.

BigGee wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Ollie Sleightholme must be in with a shout the way he is tearing up the premiership defences, try a game at the moment.

He played very well for saints against Ulster last night.

Couldn't see the Ulster match.  I agree Ollie, a second generation Saint, is really doing well and has so much going for him.

By the way, I am watching the American Major League Rugby right now and Ben Foden is playing and coaching for the New York franchise.  He is doing pretty well today, too.

Like the look of Sleightholme, he Freeman and Mitchell are three Northampton players I'd like to see play over the summer (possibly Painter too).

i think Hayes needs to be going as one of the Tight head props. Need to get him capped so he doesnt go to Wales and because hes a cracking young prop...whos only 22.

GeordieFalcon wrote:i think Hayes needs to be going as one of the Tight head props. Need to get him capped so he doesnt go to Wales and because hes a cracking young prop...whos only 22.

22 today. I'd be amazed if Eddie didn't take him on tour. He was in the shadow squad so 4th choice during the Six Nations. He has a high tackle count for the a tighthead and is good and getting back on his feet and into the defensive line which is something Eddie likes. Scrum time he's good, not great but he's still very young and went for a rather brave conditioning programme over lockdown which involved a lot of work and short term pain. He lost quite a bit of weight by taking up running and then has had to work the weight back on slowly, it did mean he had some tough days after the resumption whilst he was lacking a bit of weight. Now he looks increasingly like he's going to be a machine with a bit more time of working with Borthwick.

Just hope some key ones get the chance in the autumn to continue on. Couple more weeks to see what comes of the post 6 nations review, choices will clearly change depending what comes of that. I think the pack doesn't need that much doing, number 8 aside the first/second choices are well set. potentially where there are injuries you may get the chance for Martin or Hill to push for a permanent spot. The backs you could simply pick a new set of 5 or more players and get more from them than the current lot this past tournament. It will be interesting to see that back 3 in particular, you'd still say that Watson and May are stellar players but there's a few of the new bunch starting to knock pretty loudly now.

No 7&1/2 wrote: Couple more weeks to see what comes of the post 6 nations review, .

Im still very much of the view that Eddie "sacrificed" this 6n to keep the core of his squad together (the Sarries lot etc)

But yes, i still think its time he moved on some of his favorites. Im also still of the opinion he had every intention of doing that aswell. The build up to the world cup starts on the summer tour and the AI's...and i firmly believe we'll see a different animal then.

Theres alot of the young tigers and the young saints are impressing hugely.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just hope some key ones get the chance in the autumn to continue on. Couple more weeks to see what comes of the post 6 nations review, choices will clearly change depending what comes of that. I think the pack doesn't need that much doing, number 8 aside the first/second choices are well set. potentially where there are injuries you may get the chance for Martin or Hill to push for a permanent spot. The backs you could simply pick a new set of 5 or more players and get more from them than the current lot this past tournament. It will be interesting to see that back 3 in particular, you'd still say that Watson and May are stellar players but there's a few of the new bunch starting to knock pretty loudly now.

When is the 6 Nations review and assessment due to be released?

All I know is it was moved from May to April.

Talk just before Exeter v Wasps game that Wasps attack coach Martin Gleeson could be moving to England.
I guess he could be replacing another ex Wasp Simon Amor

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Talk just before Exeter v Wasps game that Wasps attack coach Martin Gleeson could be moving to England.
I guess he could be replacing another ex Wasp Simon Amor

Maybe a good change. But changing coaches will not make players come into training camp in shape or switched on.

Looking at yesterdays result, I am not sure about it being a good idea.

As much as I would hate to loose him, Vesty looks a cut above most.

Well I'm surprised but Tuilagi is staying at Sale.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well I'm surprised but Tuilagi is staying at Sale.

Been on the cards for a while now, beyond the posturing I get the impression he wants to stay in England but wants to be rewarded for doing so.

Didnt think the money would be there soul compared to France. Let's hope he finally gets back and gets a good run of games.

2 year contract according to the beeb. Only 43 caps tells a story though. I know every team has a hard luck story on injuries but when you consider that Curry has racked up 32 already, what could have been for him.

I think England need to bring the in-form premiership players into contention.  Hence for the summer matches, more or less ignore the match-day 23  (or only select players with very few caps) and pick in-form players.

My 15 would be

Steward
Sleightholme
Odogwu
Lawrence
O'flaherty
Smith
Mitchell
Dombrandt
Evans
Hill
Ewels
Hill
Heyes
Dunn
Obano


In the backrow I have left out Mercer and Simmonds.  Also more of a toss up between Hill and Barbeary.

A bit of lack of good young hookers - Capon?

Hill and Ewels just to give these guys some more experience (Hill plays much better for Exeter than England).

Final thought can Simmonds play 12?

The backs are there more to have fun.

In a creative mood I had a go at a second 15 but probably missed a few likely candidates

Malins
Hassell-Collins
Marchant
O'Connor
Nowell
Simmonds
Spencer
Mercer
Curry (B)
Barbeary
Martin
Ribbans
Painter
Capon
West

What about Barbeary at hooker? Or has that ship sailed now.

I have there's no players or very few from rhe 6n in these set of games.

Lots of players showing good form...away form the main England set up.

How good is he at hooker geordie? How's his scrummaging and throwing at senior level? Never seen him there for anyone but the u20s. Until I do id say consider him at 6 or 8.

I rate Johnny Hill..it was his first real stint in the squad when they were woeful. I don't want to rule him out just yet I also still want don't want to rule out Nick Isiekwe...and hope he moves back to lock.

There's genuinely multiple options all over the park...

No 7&1/2 wrote:How good is he at hooker geordie? How's his scrummaging and throwing at senior level? Never seen him there for anyone but the u20s. Until I do id say consider him at 6 or 8.

That's why I said..or has that ship sailed...looks like he's playing back row which is a massive shame.

Hes only 20 so plenty of time however given how good he's been in the back row in starting to question how clever it would be to switch him. I suppose wasps at full strength have a fair few options there though, and Taylor is moving to sale isnt he.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hes only 20 so plenty of time however given how good he's been in the back row in starting to question how clever it would be to switch him. I suppose wasps at full strength have a fair few options there though, and Taylor is moving to sale isnt he.

Agree. Taylor is moving on and there will be opportunities for him. He's used to the pace of the game and the physical demands of senior rugby now. It's a good platform to progress from. He's a strong lad. If he can bring just 75% of his carrying impact to hooker and offer a stable set piece he'll be one hell of a player. As an Eddie finisher his explosive carrying could be very destructive.