LIV golf

First topic message reminder :

Probably best for this to have its own thread...

Latest news is that 11 LIV players have sued the PGA tour. Here is a nice article on that https://golf.com/news/phil-mickelson-lawsuit-vs-pga-tour-revelations/?amp=1

Better stock up on popcorn, it looks like we will become privy to lots of juicy information which has been secret up to now.

McLaren wrote:Super

Ok, but realistically you are going to have to have a feeder tour of sorts to find people to enter your Q school. The point still stands that you need a bigger field (and therefore a cut) to accommodate new players.

Not necessarily Mac. You don't have to be on a tour to enter Q School for the European Tour.

Another leg of the ladies Aramco team series being played in NYC this weekend. Many top golfers are playing.

Where’s the outrage?

pedro wrote:Another leg of the ladies Aramco team series being played in NYC this weekend. Many top golfers are playing.

Where’s the outrage?

Pedro there is the whiff of a Trump whatabouter about you. I am sure you can work this one out for yourself.

McLaren wrote:

pedro wrote:Another leg of the ladies Aramco team series being played in NYC this weekend. Many top golfers are playing.

Where’s the outrage?

Pedro there is the whiff of a Trump whatabouter about you. I am sure you can work this one out for yourself.

Mac, surely you don't think many golfers can wear a holier than thou halo? If you play pro golf, guaranteed you're the beneficiary of some seriously dodgy regime

pedro wrote:Another leg of the ladies Aramco team series being played in NYC this weekend. Many top golfers are playing.

Where’s the outrage?

I think it's pretty Poopie. Does that make you feel better?

https://twitter.com/deepdivegolf/status/1581450513345744897?s=46&t=QMonj7qUBt1K6hn3ZxpLEw

A peak viewership of 18,000 on YouTube for LIV these past two events

I see Koepka has also said this - https://twitter.com/golfmonthly/status/1581408355733864448?s=46&t=VTtMlKLmt09MJfJsXKPz2A

Reality beginning to hit home…?

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://twitter.com/deepdivegolf/status/1581450513345744897?s=46&t=QMonj7qUBt1K6hn3ZxpLEw

A peak viewership of 18,000 on YouTube for LIV these past two events

I see Koepka has also said this - https://twitter.com/golfmonthly/status/1581408355733864448?s=46&t=VTtMlKLmt09MJfJsXKPz2A

Reality beginning to hit home…?

Yep, pretty poor. Doesn't sportswashing require some eyes on the event?


And good to see Robopz get a shout out for his great work in putting the viewing figures together.

McLaren wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://twitter.com/deepdivegolf/status/1581450513345744897?s=46&t=QMonj7qUBt1K6hn3ZxpLEw

A peak viewership of 18,000 on YouTube for LIV these past two events

I see Koepka has also said this - https://twitter.com/golfmonthly/status/1581408355733864448?s=46&t=VTtMlKLmt09MJfJsXKPz2A

Reality beginning to hit home…?

Yep, pretty poor. Doesn't sportswashing require some eyes on the event?


And good to see Robopz get a shout out for his great work in putting the viewing figures together.

Sportwashing ha ha ha.

Super

What does that mean?

McLaren wrote:Super

What does that mean?

I'm laughing at your selective outrage. Have you ever looked into the other golf tours? Why is Liv worse than DP Tour, WGC events or PGA?

You remind me of Gary Lineker and the Poundland Gary Lineker, Gary Neville. Likes to wave a flag for social justice but ignores all the other things which don't quite suit his agenda.

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:Super

What does that mean?

I'm laughing at your selective outrage. Have you ever looked into the other golf tours? Why is Liv worse than DP Tour, WGC events or PGA?

You remind me of Gary Lineker and the Poundland Gary Lineker, Gary Neville. Likes to wave a flag for social justice but ignores all the other things which don't quite suit his agenda.

You don't tend to like rich people with a conscience having opinions and a platform to air them do you Supes?

If the Saudis had chosen to fritter some of their wealth on the Old Firm instead of Liv I'm pretty sure you'd be less defensive on their behalf as it would suit your agenda to rip into them for doing it and the Old Firm for accepting it. Agendas are agendas, sometimes they align with truth and credibility sometimes they don't.

I still find this LIV thing to be generally very meh. Very hard to be excited by it.

Not the sportswashing that bothers me. There just isn't an interesting story line.

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:Super

What does that mean?

I'm laughing at your selective outrage. Have you ever looked into the other golf tours? Why is Liv worse than DP Tour, WGC events or PGA?

You remind me of Gary Lineker and the Poundland Gary Lineker, Gary Neville. Likes to wave a flag for social justice but ignores all the other things which don't quite suit his agenda.

Super

Is it worse to have the odd event in or sponsored by a country you probably shouldn't or have a whole tour funded by the Saudis with the expressed intent to destroy the PGAT and ET? I am not sure you have understood what the end game for the Saudi league is, and if you have are you comfortable with golf being in the hands of the Saudi investment fund?

Even if you ignore the moral issues of the Saudis sportswashing I think a lot of people would object on the grounds that they don't want the world of pro golf to look like the Saudis want it to look.


On a related note, it was pretty awful seeing Newcastle in the Saudi replica kit at Old Trafford yesterday.

A whole tour sponsored by a dodgy regime? You mean like the DP World Tour? Maybe the Qatar World Cup, F1 in Bahrain, Boxing in Jeddah, Newcastle United? That sort of stuff you don't care about and happily turn a blind eye to?

beninho wrote:I still find this LIV thing to be generally very meh. Very hard to be excited by it.

Not the sportswashing that bothers me.  There just isn't an interesting story line.

I agree, the problem with LIV isn't the Saudi connection. It's just boring

JAS wrote:

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:Super

What does that mean?

I'm laughing at your selective outrage. Have you ever looked into the other golf tours? Why is Liv worse than DP Tour, WGC events or PGA?

You remind me of Gary Lineker and the Poundland Gary Lineker, Gary Neville. Likes to wave a flag for social justice but ignores all the other things which don't quite suit his agenda.

You don't tend to like rich people with a conscience having opinions and a platform to air them do you Supes?

If the Saudis had chosen to fritter some of their wealth on the Old Firm instead of Liv I'm pretty sure you'd be less defensive on their behalf as it would suit your agenda to rip into them for doing it and the Old Firm for accepting it. Agendas are agendas, sometimes they align with truth and credibility sometimes they don't.

I am not defending Saudi involvement in anything. Im saying that the selective outrage whilst turning a blind eye to anything else connected to a dodgy regime is the issue.

Lineker and Neville don't have a conscience when they get paid.

Super

Maybe that post wasn't aimed at me but if it was, that's a bit weird because you know I do show outrage at those other examples you bring up. I am in no doubt that the Oil rich nation states intrusion into sport is a bad thing.

16 LIV golfers are being allowed to compete in the Masters

incontinentia wrote:16 LIV golfers are being allowed to compete in the Masters

Which one have I missed? I've got Ancer, Smith, DJ, Phil, Bryson, Koepka, Varner, Oosty, Sergio, Bubba, Schwartzel, Reed, Gooch, Na and Kokrak.

I'm never wrong wrote:

incontinentia wrote:16 LIV golfers are being allowed to compete in the Masters

Which one have I missed? I've got Ancer, Smith, DJ, Phil, Bryson, Koepka, Varner, Oosty, Sergio, Bubba, Schwartzel, Reed, Gooch, Na and Kokrak.

Niemann

Day 1 of the 5 day hearing into whether the DP World Tour has the power to fine/suspend players who play on other tours without getting a release. One commentator suggested if the DP World Tour loses its case, all the LIV players will join the DP World Tour.......despite insisting they have signed up to LIV to play less golf.

I'm never wrong wrote:Day 1 of the 5 day hearing into whether the DP World Tour has the power to fine/suspend players who play on other tours without getting a release.  One commentator suggested if the DP World Tour loses its case, all the LIV players will join the DP World Tour.......despite insisting they have signed up to LIV to play less golf.

Yeah, well we all know that's a pile of ....

navyblueshorts wrote:

I'm never wrong wrote:Day 1 of the 5 day hearing into whether the DP World Tour has the power to fine/suspend players who play on other tours without getting a release.  One commentator suggested if the DP World Tour loses its case, all the LIV players will join the DP World Tour.......despite insisting they have signed up to LIV to play less golf.

Yeah, well we all know that's a pile of ....

Couldn't find the tongue in cheek emoji Navy.

Mito Pereira joining LIV. He sure could have used a 3 round tournament last year.

(Norman could have a used 3 rounds tournaments his whole career.)

Shotrock wrote:Mito Pereira joining LIV. He sure could have used a 3 round tournament last year.

(Norman could have a used 3 rounds tournaments his whole career.)

Who? I genuinely have never heard of him.

PGA Championship in 2022 ...

In May, Pereira had a 1-stroke lead over Justin Thomas and Will Zalatoris heading into the 72nd hole of the 2022 PGA Championship at Southern Hills Country Club in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Needing a par to win, Pereira carded a double bogey after hitting his tee shot into the water. He tied for third; Thomas defeated Zalatoris in a three-hole playoff.

Super

Do you watch any of the sports you comment on? Clueless on golf and football.

How many people have ever heard of Pereira?
Now that I've been reminded of him in PGA I recall the story, but I didnt remember his name. Do you remember the name of every no mark who has ever led a tournament?

Hilarious you consider yourself an expert though. Without looking please remind me of who came third in the US Open or Masters last year.

That's not really the same question but US open I'd go Rory or Hideki and Masters I'd go Rory or Cam Smith.

Just because I didn't know the name of one person choking in one tournament doesn't mean I know nothing about golf.

Never claimed to be an expert on anything, just offering an opinion.

I guess the question is, how well founded your opinion is. In terms of pro golf and football I don't know why you don't just admit to being out of the loop?

In terms of LIV itself, if Mito Pereira and Sebastian Munoz are their two "marquee" signings for the new 2023 season...then yeesh. Things might be going worse than originally thought.

I also see there is reports that Koepka is already having regrets about deserting the PGA Tour, and leaving competitive golf behind. I wonder if any player will try to go back across the divide in 2023...

McLaren wrote:I guess the question is, how well founded your opinion is. In terms of pro golf and football I don't know why you don't just admit to being out of the loop?

That comes from the arrogant position of you believing your opinion is informed. For example you like to paint yourself as an expert on course architecture, but only have read a book based on someone elses opinion as tje basis of this belief.
Being an armchair football fan doesn't make you an expert on football either.
I'd wager that there is very little any of us are genuinely expert on. We are effectively just club golfers in regards to this.

Super

Even within the confines of what you set up above there would be degrees of knowledge, and those that don't watch or read up on the subject would be at the least expert end of the scale.

And that's the thing, by your own admission you don't follow pro golf or football so it's not like anyone expects you to sound informed. Just weird that you don't accept that even after admitting you do nothing to become informed?

Mac, that would be fine had you not called me clueless.
You seem to be of the view that unless you have an encyclopedic knowledge of a sport then your opinion isn't worth anything.
I simply said I'd never heard of this guy Pereira, and really, there's no reason for me to have name on immediate Rain Man recall to a time, date and particular action in the golfing calander.

Do you have such recall? No, you do not, so don't expect anyone else to.

Is there aspects of golf you know more than me? Obviously, are there aspects of golf I know more than you? Undoubtedly.
Stop being such a snob, you're so quick to accuse others of it, but can't see it in yourself.

I didn't day I don't read or watch, just perhaps not as much as you, probably why I'm a better golfer because instead of watching a sport like a train spotter, I'm out doing it.

Super

We have moved on from that incident. We are now talking more broadly about how you don't watch/read about pro golf or football and yet won't accept that leaves you with a somewhat uninformed opinion on them.

McLaren wrote:Super

We have moved on from that incident. We are now talking more broadly about how you don't watch/read about pro golf or football and yet won't accept that leaves you with a somewhat uninformed opinion on them.

No we haven't moved on from that. You've found ONE element of golf where you know more than me and now you're trying to pretend there are other things.

Do you watch or read anything about pro golf or football? And if so how often do you partake in these activities?

McLaren wrote:Do you watch or read anything about pro golf or football? And if so how often do you partake in these activities?

Yes Mac I do, do I have to pass some sort of benchmark for you to accept that, and what makes you the arbitrator of when such knowledge becomes "expert"?

I've never claimed to be an expert on either football or golf, so don't have to apologise for not living up to your required level of knowledge.
I qualified why I didn't know Pereira's name, not sure why you can't accept that or why you think it's such a big deal. I bet most wouldn't know him.

Super

In the past you have claimed you don't waste your time watching golf or football. I guess you've changed your mind on that?

**** me! Get a room, you two. Certainly, take this baloney elsewhere. PM each other, please....

You should be grateful for the traffic Navy, this golf board is a Nat's ball hair away from being dead.

Interesting stuff GG. It does not come as a surprise to me that some players have "buyer's remorse" with LIV; at least those players who primarily live in and play on the USPGA Tour.

Golf (or any sport by and large) does not play well in tape delay. TV revenue is very important for the top professional golf tours and golfers. Good luck securing a strong US endorsement deal when your TV exposure is limited to the "CW" network and lots of your live coverage will not be in US prime time zones. Advertisers will have little interest.

Shotrock wrote:Interesting stuff GG. It does not come as a surprise to me that some players have "buyer's remorse" with LIV; at least those players who primarily live in and play on the USPGA Tour.

Golf (or any sport by and large) does not play well in tape delay. TV revenue is very important for the top professional golf tours and golfers. Good luck securing a strong US endorsement deal when your TV exposure is limited to the "CW" network and lots of your live coverage will not be in US prime time zones. Advertisers will have little interest.

Any info on players being jettisoned by sponsors, having their endorsement funds reduced following LIV transfer? It would be interesting to know.

Whilst I'm not morally against the LIV Tour like some hand wringers, it is a truly dreadful spectacle and the team element is cringeworthy, toe curling, confected American rubbish whilst the commentary is "hide behind the sofa" bad.
For a lot of players who went to LIV and got big sign on fees, I doubt many would care about the loss of a sponsor, but it would be indicative of how the club manufacturers see the tour in a commercial context.

What I don't really get is the blatant lie that they joined to play "less golf" when most of them have been on the Asian Tour the last few weeks.

Super - I do not have any info on endorsement revenue but will look for it and post here if I can find it.

Super

The endorsement game is changing anyway. Other than the likes of Rory I don't think the player or the manufacturer were getting much out of the old school deals. Manufacturers are increasingly looking to work with influencers. Just look at the recent Callaway and good good tie up. Where I think there will be good good branded Callaway gear. Titleist have also gone in quite big with NLU. And then you have all the other YouTube channels where the creator has some form of endorsement.

It seems the manufacturer's increasingly think creators are a better way to sell gear than pro golfers.

Speaking of "influencers" I find the majority of themselves to be insufferable.
Peter Finch though for me (i cant bear the American ones, especially good good et al so I don't ever watch them) is the absolute worst. If the guy was made of chocolate, he would eat himself. Totally deluded, and self indulgent. Fair play to him for making a career out of it though.

Peter Finch is hard to bear. Such a smug demeanor.

super_realist wrote:You should be grateful for the traffic Navy, this golf board is a Nat's ball hair away from being dead.

If you say so, but I'd hazard a guess that this sort of nonsense actively keeps some away...

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:You should be grateful for the traffic Navy, this golf board is a Nat's ball hair away from being dead.

If you say so, but I'd hazard a guess that this sort of nonsense actively keeps some away...

Yes, because this board is so active when I take a hiatus isn't it?