LIV golf

First topic message reminder :

Probably best for this to have its own thread...

Latest news is that 11 LIV players have sued the PGA tour. Here is a nice article on that https://golf.com/news/phil-mickelson-lawsuit-vs-pga-tour-revelations/?amp=1

Better stock up on popcorn, it looks like we will become privy to lots of juicy information which has been secret up to now.

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:You should be grateful for the traffic Navy, this golf board is a Nat's ball hair away from being dead.

If you say so, but I'd hazard a guess that this sort of nonsense actively keeps some away...

I'm quite enjoying it!

I'm with super on this. I wish more people were up for a bit of back and forth like super is.

McLaren wrote:Peter Finch is hard to bear. Such a smug demeanor.

Thinks he's a "player" when he's just another club golfer. His narcissism knows no bounds and even his repeated failure to even get close to final qualifying in his laughably unrealistic Quest for the Open don't make him realise he is a million miles off.

super_realist wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:You should be grateful for the traffic Navy, this golf board is a Nat's ball hair away from being dead.

If you say so, but I'd hazard a guess that this sort of nonsense actively keeps some away...

Yes, because this board is so active when I take a hiatus isn't it?

You're missing the point, but no more comment from me as this is a LIV thread...

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:You should be grateful for the traffic Navy, this golf board is a Nat's ball hair away from being dead.

If you say so, but I'd hazard a guess that this sort of nonsense actively keeps some away...

Yes, because this board is so active when I take a hiatus isn't it?

You're missing the point, but no more comment from me as this is a LIV thread...

I get you're a mod and you've got a reason to only want on topic conversation but given how dead the board is these days any content should be approved of.

super_realist wrote:Speaking of "influencers" I find the majority of themselves to be insufferable.
Peter Finch though for me (i cant bear the American ones, especially good good et al so I don't ever watch them) is the absolute worst. If the guy was made of chocolate, he would eat himself. Totally deluded, and self indulgent. Fair play to him for making a career out of it though.

Yes Finch is intolerable. I quite enjoy Rick Shiels though. I was surprised to learn that he is slightly better than scratch, he's capable if some really awful play at times.

Erik Anders Lang/Skratch golf has some great content, I really enjoyed the Breaking Sawgrass episodes, and Adventures In Golf.

incontinentia wrote:

super_realist wrote:Speaking of "influencers" I find the majority of themselves to be insufferable.
Peter Finch though for me (i cant bear the American ones, especially good good et al so I don't ever watch them) is the absolute worst. If the guy was made of chocolate, he would eat himself. Totally deluded, and self indulgent. Fair play to him for making a career out of it though.

Yes Finch is intolerable. I quite enjoy Rick Shiels though. I was surprised to learn that he is slightly better than scratch, he's capable if some really awful play at times.

Erik Anders Lang/Skratch golf has some great content, I really enjoyed the Breaking Sawgrass episodes, and Adventures In Golf.

Shiels is quite good. Especially so since he dumped the majority of his self indulgent stuff. I dip in and out.
I think Shiels is a half decent player, but inexplicably,  as with Mark Crossfield his short game is truly terrible.
I don't know why these guys don't work on that aspect, it's easy gains and can turn you from 1 or 2 to +2 very quickly.

I think Anders Lang camera work and production values are actually better than his content. He is the weak link in his videos.

super_realist wrote:

incontinentia wrote:

super_realist wrote:Speaking of "influencers" I find the majority of themselves to be insufferable.
Peter Finch though for me (i cant bear the American ones, especially good good et al so I don't ever watch them) is the absolute worst. If the guy was made of chocolate, he would eat himself. Totally deluded, and self indulgent. Fair play to him for making a career out of it though.

Yes Finch is intolerable. I quite enjoy Rick Shiels though. I was surprised to learn that he is slightly better than scratch, he's capable if some really awful play at times.

Erik Anders Lang/Skratch golf has some great content, I really enjoyed the Breaking Sawgrass episodes, and Adventures In Golf.

Shiels is quite good. Especially so since he dumped the majority of his self indulgent stuff. I dip in and out.
I think Shiels is a half decent player, but inexplicably,  as with Mark Crossfield his short game is truly terrible.
I don't know why these guys don't work on that aspect, it's easy gains and can turn you from 1 or 2 to +2 very quickly.

I think Anders Lang camera work and production values are actually better than his content. He is the weak link in his videos.

Perhaps they dont see the short game as sexy enough.

incontinentia wrote:

super_realist wrote:

incontinentia wrote:

super_realist wrote:Speaking of "influencers" I find the majority of themselves to be insufferable.
Peter Finch though for me (i cant bear the American ones, especially good good et al so I don't ever watch them) is the absolute worst. If the guy was made of chocolate, he would eat himself. Totally deluded, and self indulgent. Fair play to him for making a career out of it though.

Yes Finch is intolerable. I quite enjoy Rick Shiels though. I was surprised to learn that he is slightly better than scratch, he's capable if some really awful play at times.

Erik Anders Lang/Skratch golf has some great content, I really enjoyed the Breaking Sawgrass episodes, and Adventures In Golf.

Shiels is quite good. Especially so since he dumped the majority of his self indulgent stuff. I dip in and out.
I think Shiels is a half decent player, but inexplicably,  as with Mark Crossfield his short game is truly terrible.
I don't know why these guys don't work on that aspect, it's easy gains and can turn you from 1 or 2 to +2 very quickly.

I think Anders Lang camera work and production values are actually better than his content. He is the weak link in his videos.

Perhaps they dont see the short game as sexy enough.

I love the short game element and its the thing which completely transformed my game.

Some of the claims some of these guys make about how far they hit it are hilarious. They're obsessed with driving distance.
I bet if they actually saw them on the course their claims of 300+ yards would evaporate.
Alex Etches is perhaps the only guy who I trust his yardages because his swing speed is absurd. Pete Finch, Shiels, Average  Golfer, Crossfield etc I don't buy for a minute.

super_realist wrote:You should be grateful for the traffic Navy, this golf board is a Nat's ball hair away from being dead.

Maybe it’s you two constantly bickering at each other like a couple of school kids in the playground that has put people off It’s certainly very wearing from my POV.

Super

I doubt a lot of the yardages claimed in YouTube golf content. Good good are longer than McIlroy if their claims are to be believed.

My short game is horrendous. Always has been. No matter how much practice I put in.

McLaren wrote:Super

I doubt a lot of the yardages claimed in YouTube golf content. Good good are longer than McIlroy if their claims are to be believed.

My short game is horrendous. Always has been. No matter how much practice I put in.

Do you ever practice it Mac? I play games with short game practice, not just chip 100 balls so that I keep it interesting.

Thomas Pieters, Brendan Steele, Danny Lee to LIV.

How are LIV dealing with the players who are having to make way for "top names" like Pereira, Munoz, Steele, Lee, Pieter's etc?
Given the limited fields, are they just being expelled?

super_realist wrote:How are LIV dealing with the players who are having to make way for "top names" like Pereira, Munoz, Steele, Lee, Pieter's etc?
Given the limited fields, are they just being expelled?

Yes they're just dumped I believe, but presumably they'll have been given enough cash to make it worthwhile.

I assume they are expected to fall back into the Asian tour and maybe wait for a call up to fill out fields if some of the 48 can't make it to an event.

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:Super

I doubt a lot of the yardages claimed in YouTube golf content. Good good are longer than McIlroy if their claims are to be believed.

My short game is horrendous. Always has been. No matter how much practice I put in.

Do you ever practice it Mac? I play games with short game practice, not just chip 100 balls so that I keep it interesting.

Super, I practice a lot. Play short game games alone and with friends, the lot. I just lack any sort of decent touch. I'm fine when you can hit it harder and generate spin to hit the chip or pitch but whenever touch and feel are needed I am a duffer.

Tricky one Mac. I would say you need to be smooth in the short game and don't be afraid to commit.
The biggest issue I see with poor short games is people who are too "jabby"

When you finally take me out on TOC maybe we can do a short game lesson beforehand?

McLaren wrote:When you finally take me out on TOC maybe we can do a short game lesson beforehand?

Thing about TOC is Mac and St Andrews in general is that it's actually bad for your short game because you so seldom need to use it. If I was only a member at St Andrews my short game would go downhill.
Golfers who play parkland and heathland have better shortgames (and better long games too).

I'd take the handicap of a golfer who played less links as being closer to the real number than someone who is Links only.

We can do the lesson in the practice facility.

super_realist wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:You should be grateful for the traffic Navy, this golf board is a Nat's ball hair away from being dead.

If you say so, but I'd hazard a guess that this sort of nonsense actively keeps some away...

Yes, because this board is so active when I take a hiatus isn't it?

You're missing the point, but no more comment from me as this is a LIV thread...

I get you're a mod and you've got a reason to only want on topic conversation but given how dead the board is these days any content should be approved of.

I'm not a Mod anymore, though. I haven't been for ages. Don't ask my why I still have a badge. I haven't acted, or comment, in that vein for ages...

incontinentia wrote:Thomas Pieters, Brendan Steele, Danny Lee to LIV.

Who?

navyblueshorts wrote:

incontinentia wrote:Thomas Pieters, Brendan Steele, Danny Lee to LIV.

Who?

Wonder if Danny Lee will still get his token Master's invite?

LIV Event observations (in Mexico), and showing my bias' (many?) here ...

- Sparse crowds, surprised the Saudi's don't pay to bus in as many people as possible
- Instant gag reflex ... Class clown Feherety referring reverently to Greg "The Ego" as "Commish"
- Practice range interviews seem as non-rehearsed as a space shuttle launch
- Team event ... I have zero interest
- Golf Saudi logo on everyone's shirt (I can think of about 50 places I would rather go to first for a golf trip)

Must admit, however, I do like the shotgun start

Shotrock wrote:LIV Event observations (in Mexico), and showing my bias' (many?) here ...

- Sparse crowds, surprised the Saudi's don't pay to bus in as many people as possible
- Instant gag reflex ... Class clown Feherety referring reverently to Greg "The Ego" as "Commish"
- Practice range interviews seem as non-rehearsed as a space shuttle launch
- Team event ... I have zero interest
- Golf Saudi logo on everyone's shirt (I can think of about 50 places I would rather go to first for a golf trip)

Must admit, however, I do like the shotgun start

I've tried watching a bit tonight - the broadcast is borderline unwatchable with the propaganda guff, and it just doesn't really flow very well (maybe a growing pain?) - just lots of random shots piled one on top of the other.

Also not helped by none of the big players being in contention and Charles Howell as I type taking a 6 (!) shot lead.

Saw this on twitter yesterday too re: LIV players contracts - https://twitter.com/jnucci23/status/1629547910047178752?s=46&t=rcqF6rCd6Hm97xlA40048w

I went to the first LIV golf event held at the Centurion Club last June. I was struggling with a knee injury at the time so decided to treat myself and purchased a ticket which gave access to a marquee which overlooked the 15th green and 16th tee. It came with a hefty price tag of £246 but that did include unlimited food and drink all day. Unfortunately a number of the clientele were groups of young men (mainly South African) who were obviously there on freebie corporate invites. Their interest in the golf was zero and their sole intention for the day seemed to be to get as pissed as possible. As the day wore on they became more and more loud, boorish, rude, arrogant and obnoxious. The security people there took no action and it ruined a lot of people’s day, mine included.
As for the golf, it’s format didn’t inspire much excitement from me. It seemed weird not to see the leaders come through at the back of the field and the team event seemed pretty pointless from a watching perspective. Overall the atmosphere was more akin to an over the top and extravagant stag do than a golf tournament. I’m sure some people will love it but not for me, I won’t be rushing back this year.

GG - I had no idea those contracts were so restrictive. This year will be very telling as to the marketability of the product methinks.

Blue - Quite an experience. And no matter how much you 'dress it up' I'll be very curious to see if they can get non-golf fans (to date) more interested. Surprised they didn't have on-site wagering.

From Robo on twitter.

https://twitter.com/Robopz/status/1630367995431092227

McLaren wrote:

https://twitter.com/SportsTVRatings/status/1630291483877076993

From Robo on twitter.

https://twitter.com/Robopz/status/1630367995431092227

Oof. Didn't even have the NFL or a major PGA tour event (or really any other major US sporting event) to compete against either for viewership.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

McLaren wrote:

https://twitter.com/SportsTVRatings/status/1630291483877076993

From Robo on twitter.

https://twitter.com/Robopz/status/1630367995431092227

Oof. Didn't even have the NFL or a major PGA tour event (or really any other major US sporting event) to compete against either for viewership.

Think it was up against "Funniest Animals" or something......

I really don't see how LIV can genuinely think the team element is grabbing anyone's attention. You can't have any affinity with any of these confected teams.

I can't see any future in this tour unless they go to a 120ish field with 4 rounds.

The thing is that you need press coverage for the sports washing to work and once the initial controversy dies down will there actually be any Saudi League coverage from the regular golf press?

With no press coverage and no TV viewers what will the point be?

McLaren wrote:The thing is that you need press coverage for the sports washing to work and once the initial controversy dies down will there actually be any Saudi League coverage from the regular golf press?

With no press coverage and no TV viewers what will the point be?

They should get some consultants in from The Olympics, World Cup, Formula One, Cricket,  Premier League, BBC, Boxing etc to find out how to sportwash more successfully.

Re the court case in the USA, the court has requested some disclosure details from (I think) the Fund and the head of the fund. The PIF have sent a reply back saying it is against Saudi Law to do this....but the court case is in the USA and they're the ones making the case. Doh!

I'm never wrong wrote:Re the court case in the USA, the court has requested some disclosure details from (I think) the Fund and the head of the fund. The PIF have sent a reply back saying it is against Saudi Law to do this....but the court case is in the USA and they're the ones making the case. Doh!

So they are going to drag out their own court case. Maybe they will use even this court case to boost the viewers. It would be in their interests if the world of golf was a constant soap opera that they were in the middle of.

I'm never wrong wrote:Re the court case in the USA, the court has requested some disclosure details from (I think) the Fund and the head of the fund. The PIF have sent a reply back saying it is against Saudi Law to do this....but the court case is in the USA and they're the ones making the case. Doh!

Yeah. A bit dumb. Continue to refuse to comply w/ such requests = loss of case.

Screwed themselves over regarding claims about Newcastle ownership as well.

Oh dear. What a shame. No-one likes to see this sort of thing happen to the LIV rebels:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/65198669

McKinsey (consultants) were clear to tell LIV that their business model was high risk (and potential high reward). Early days for a regime that has an endless supply of money, but no trend lines for viewership or attendance are very positive.

My take has always been that the Saudi's will eventually tire of this whole exercise. Professional golf events can be high drama, but they can also be a borefest.

I give it a couple more years.

navyblueshorts wrote:Oh dear. What a shame. No-one likes to see this sort of thing happen to the LIV rebels:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/65198669

If you bother to read the decision in full Click here and click on the download square to the right hand side you will see fairly near the bottom, a list of witnesses who appeared in person, and those who appeared by video link. Also those who gave written statements including one Justine Reed. I have to ask - Why?

A two tier American centric PGAT couldn't have played into the Saudis hand's more. Basically the PGAT has left the rest of worldwide golf up for grabs. Not sure The Saudis investment is as risky as when they initially got going.

Justine Reed

Mac - Fast forward 20+ years and there will certainly be more worldwide events with the top golfers participating. Still, not sure LIV will be the group behind it ... but time shall tell.

But, I do predict a P Ball (professional ball) will come into play shortly.

Shotrock wrote:Mac - Fast forward 20+ years and there will certainly be more worldwide events with the top golfers participating. Still, not sure LIV will be the group behind it ... but time shall tell.

But, I do predict a P Ball (professional ball) will come into play shortly.

I don't see the point in changing the ball. The longer hitters will still be the longer hitters and it also means shorter hitters lose distance.
The biggest gain in driving distance has been swing speed, not the ball. The Governing Bodies are trying to punish players for being more professional.

I'd rather see more interesting golf, why not bring in lateral OOB, grow rough thicker, tougher pins, less sand in bunkers, reduce time it takes to hit a shot etc.

super_realist wrote:

Shotrock wrote:Mac - Fast forward 20+ years and there will certainly be more worldwide events with the top golfers participating. Still, not sure LIV will be the group behind it ... but time shall tell.

But, I do predict a P Ball (professional ball) will come into play shortly.

I don't see the point in changing the ball. The longer hitters will still be the longer hitters and it also means shorter hitters lose distance.
The biggest gain in driving distance has been swing speed, not the ball. The Governing Bodies are trying to punish players for being more professional.

I'd rather see more interesting golf, why not bring in lateral OOB, grow rough thicker, tougher pins, less sand in bunkers, reduce time it takes to hit a shot etc.

Ten to agree with this. However, I do think the ball should be altered; for all, not just pros. Lose the spin separation of the modern balls. Those with the good mechanics allied to speed will still hit it a mile and find the fairways; those with speed, but less than efficient mechanics, will have to get used to seeing the big slices/hooks into rough that pros used to have to avoid when playing balata etc.

I believe the point in changing the ball will be to bring more hazards into play as originally designed (primarily off the tee) and have longer approach shots (with obviously greater dispersion). Our club will be hosting a major and while I do not fully understand the concern with protecting par (just a number after all), I'm not keen on what I've seen of the fairway reduction proposed by the PGA (for a weekend mind you).

We are also building 3-5 new tee boxes which are a joke for most of us mortals.

Absolutely agree with thicker rough and less time to hit a shot (working well in these parts for professional baseball).

Shotrock wrote:I believe the point in changing the ball will be to bring more hazards into play as originally designed (primarily off the tee) and have longer approach shots (with obviously greater dispersion). Our club will be hosting a major and while I do not fully understand the concern with protecting par (just a number after all), I'm not keen on what I've seen of the fairway reduction proposed by the PGA (for a weekend mind you).

We are also building 3-5 new tee boxes which are a joke for most of us mortals.

Absolutely agree with thicker rough and less time to hit a shot (working well in these parts for professional baseball).

What’s this got to do with LIV golf? Interesting discussion but can we stick to the subject and start another thread?

Well, I was responding to a comment ... but any golf related conversation on these boards should be extremely welcome. With no more Kwini, GPB or Robo (and others) things have been mighty quiet around here.

Genuine question partially inspired by Koepka running out of steam Sunday...Do we think over time that Liv players (assuming they'll still play majors) will start to have a tendency to run out of steam on Sundays at the Majors as they become more and more mentally attuned to 54 hole events?

You also have to factor in their eligibility over time. Robopz tweeted about this HERE