RWC warm ups - Ireland V England will not be on terrestrial television

by greybeard Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:07 am

Not sure of the veracity of the claims in the article, but it seems that due to Englands deal with Sky their match, in Dublin, will not be shown on terrestrial television in Ireland.

Full story here

This seems strange to me. England has a deal with Sky, Ireland doesn't, so why should one TV deal of one team supercede or in anyway influence the rights of the other team? Obviously Sky is available in Ireland, but I don't see how that matters, Ireland haven't done a deal with them. If Italy or France had a deal with another carrier I can't imagine it would impact on the rights of their opponents to also televise the match, so I'm at a loss as to why this applies here.

By the way, I'm interested in this from a rights point of view. If anyone wants to start a "them V us", anti-English, anti-Irish, anti-Sky debate please start your own article.

by Adam D Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:11 am

RUGBY : THE IRISH Rugby Football Union have confirmed that Ireland’s final warm-up game before the World Cup, against England at the Aviva Stadium on August 27th, will not be broadcast live on terrestrial television.

Live rights for the match have been bought by Sky Sports, with RTÉ admitting it was only able to afford to broadcast two of the four Tests matches Declan Kidney’s team will play before departing for New Zealand in September.

It will mark the first home international at Lansdowne Road in generations not shown live on terrestrial television.

The situation was initially explained by an IRFU spokesman as being the result of a bidding process, where Sky Sports offered a better deal than RTÉ or the BBC.

However, the IRFU later clarified that their English counterparts only agreed to the fixture on the premise that TV rights be awarded to Sky Sports, the RFU broadcast partner for non-Six Nations internationals at Twickenham.

The IRFU subsequently agreed to this.

“We wanted to secure a fourth (international) game in August and this was the request the RFU made,” an IRFU spokesman explained. “Sky Sports will be providing all the outside broadcasting facilities so the feed will be supplied to RTÉ and the BBC at no cost.”

RTÉ and the BBC will show highlights that evening.

However, RTÉ will provide live coverage of the World Cup warm-up matches against France, the first in Bordeaux on August 13th before a return fixture in Dublin seven days later.

Broadcast rights for Scotland versus Ireland at Murrayfield on August 6th are yet to be sold, while Ireland’s non-international against Connacht on August 18th at Donnybrook is unlikely to be shown live by any station although some form of coverage should be available.

The absence from terrestrial television of Ireland against England is expected to assist ticket sales. Following a torrent of criticism over ticket prices for Ireland’s November internationals in 2010, the IRFU has reduced the cost significantly for the visit of France and England, with premium seats available for €50 and the rest ranging from €20 to €40 (schoolboy/girl tickets are €10).

When it comes to coverage of the World Cup, RTÉ will show 13 live matches, including Ireland’s pool fixtures against USA (September 11th), Australia (September 17th), Russia (September 25th) and Italy (October 2nd) as well as every knockout game. TG4 successfully purchased deferred rights which will be in direct competition with RTÉ’s evening highlights show.

Setanta Ireland secured the rights for all 52 games in the tournament.

The Irish rugby squad begins its preparation for the World Cup when a 43-man squad gathers in Carton House this Sunday.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0622/1224299383419.html

yet another warm up game on sky. Way to draw in support!

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:15 am

First the WRU, now the IRFU.

by red_stag Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:16 am

Interesting. I'm guessing (mind you guessing only) that Sky have bought rights to the friendlies themselves and out bid RTE for them. RTE isn't entitled to 6 Nations, Autumn Tests, World Cup etc. It bids for them and I would imagine have been outbid.

by caoimhincentre Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:21 am

It says it in the article. It was part of the agreement when the friendly was organised that england had a deal with Sky and the only way the match would go ahead is if Ireland agreed to the terms.

by greybeard Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:22 am

I would have thought that too, stag. But the quote

However, the IRFU later clarified that their English counterparts only agreed to the fixture on the premise that TV rights be awarded to Sky Sports, the RFU broadcast partner for non-Six Nations internationals at Twickenham.

...makes me wonder.

it's entirely possible it's shoddy journalism, or at least sensationalism*, and it also seems a bit petty of the IRFU to point out what happened. If it's true then it should probably be kept indoors, otherwise it results in sniping and bitter mumblings.

But, still, I wonder why anyone's agreement with a TV company can be allowed to dictate agreements of other countries. It doesn't seem fair. Sky could have offered next to nothing and still got it. They didn't outbid RTE.

*and if you're going to be sensationalist, a warm up game isn't the right choice!

by red_stag Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:24 am

To be honest I don't see the problem that much. We get so much free to air coverage. A warm up test where tickets are only costing €30 isn't gonna put me off too much. I'll either go to it or watch it on tv. What would be worse is all Irish rugby moving to Sky. But Pro 12, Rugby World Cup, 6 Nations and Autumn Rugby is plenty laods. Worst of all would be no coverage.

by greybeard Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:25 am

Not really my point.

Should the television rights of one team dictate the rights of another?

by caoimhincentre Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:28 am

greybeard wrote:Not really my point.

Should the television rights of one team dictate the rights of another?

short answer no. But as the article states Ireland agreed to the terms in order to get the 4th friendly they wanted and as a result will get the competitive game they need.
The decision was the IRFU's to agree to the terms

by Portnoy Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:43 am

Quite frankly the RFU are used to being in the metaphorical position of being bent over the boardroom table, trousers round its ankles and being rogered senseless by the Sky representatives for cash.

And for that delightful experience we, the punters are expected to buy a rugby product headed up Barnes and his cronies.

Who's got the most tears in their eyes or this cosy arrangement - the RFU or the viewers?

by caoimhincentre Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:45 am

"the punters are expected to buy a rugby product headed up Barnes and his cronies."

Come Barnes i find is completely balanced and unbiased.

by **rodders** Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:53 am

greybeard wrote:Not really my point.

Should the television rights of one team dictate the rights of another?

No. The IRFU should have told the RFU to clear off and arranged a match with someone else.

by dogtooth Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:01 am

tbh the summer internationals are always on sky. i did expect to watch them all on bbc this time around.

the real pain for me is that my favourite pub to watch rugby has cancelled sky:-(

i have to find a new pub, or maybe get skysport for the month. 1 month sky sport and the chance to watch 6 or more internationals or 1 ticket to the stadium. value for money is the bottom line these days.

by MBTGOG Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:15 am

It probably shouldn't but we should look at the bright side of this which might mean that more tickets will be sold.

The interesting thing for me is that the Scotland game hasn't been picked up yet by anyone. Hopefully RTE or the BBC get it on the cheap.

by Suspicious lurker Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:35 am

This is an absolute disgrace on my opinion, an opposition team can fuccck right off if they think they can dictate terms to the home team. This sets a horrible precedence for future games. A sad time for Irish sport, I'm ringing Joe Duffy

by Guest Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:37 am

MBTGOG wrote:It probably shouldn't but we should look at the bright side of this which might mean that more tickets will be sold.

Any idea what the expected attendance would be? Was there a worry that it wouldn't be a great turn out at the Aviva?

by red_stag Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:40 am

hughie1986 wrote:This is an absolute disgrace on my opinion, an opposition team can fuccck right off if they think they can dictate terms to the home team. This sets a horrible precedence for future games. A sad time for Irish sport, I'm ringing Joe Duffy

Don't see the problem Hughie. You think they can fuccck right off but Ireland chose not to say that. We could have very easily done that but IRFU were happy enough with it. Its not like England held a gun to our head. We could have played Italy instead and not had this issue.

by Effervescing Elephant Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:41 am

It seems very suprising how quickly the other unions capitulate. Suppose it's an easy way for them to make a quick buck and they can always say the RFU forced them into it.

Just got rid of sky so i'll be trawling t'internet for 'alternatives'. RWC warm ups - Ireland V England will not be on terrestrial television 103794910

RWC warm ups - Ireland V England will not be on terrestrial television 103794910

by **rodders** Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:44 am

Well then we should have played Italy stag. If the RFU want to prioritise their tv deal with sky ahead of England's world cup preperation then than thats their business but it's not the IRFU's responsibility to faciltate that.

The IRFU as the host Union should have been making sure to get the best TV deal for the host fans rather than selling out to the RFU/SKY.

by red_stag Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:46 am

Rodders, IMO a warm up game against England thats on Sky is better than a warm up game against Italy where the game is on RTE.

England gave us a choice. We'll play if its on Sky. We weren't forced by Big Bad England. There was a trade off which we agreed to.

by Guest Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:48 am

I'll be watching it at home on Sky HD. I know it's wrong but it feels so right devil

by Suspicious lurker Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:50 am

No stag it is a problem, all the country should have the right to watch the national team for free, hence the fact the government came out and made this law I think. After sky tried to put the football on sky only, it was said that all rugby and football home games would be free to air

by **rodders** Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:52 am

What was the trade off Stag? If we want to play England in our own stadium, in our own country then we have to ignore the will of Ireland supporters and respect the RFU's tv deal??!!

This is the thin wnd of the wedge stag, a bit like the 6N fiasco a few years ago? What will happen if other unions start doing this?

by Boyne Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:56 am

Most people will be on holidays and it will be a luke warm affair in any case so im not bothered..

I would like to see Ireland send out the "B" team anyway so I dont see what the fuss is about..

As long as the French games are televised I dont care...

by greybeard Wed 22 Jun 2011, 11:03 am

Boyne wrote:Most people will be on holidays and it will be a luke warm affair in any case so im not bothered..

I would like to see Ireland send out the "B" team anyway so I dont see what the fuss is about..

As long as the French games are televised I dont care...

As far as I'm concerned I'm less interested in the specifics of which matches are affected and more concerned about the precedent. England had a deal with Sky a few years ago during the 6N and it caused conflict, there were even threats of throwing England out of the 6N (as ever, nothing more than brinksmanship, but I digress)

by nottins Wed 22 Jun 2011, 11:06 am

A lot of you seem to be missing this part of the articcle, "with RTÉ admitting it was only able to afford to broadcast two of the four Tests "

by HammerofThunor Wed 22 Jun 2011, 11:08 am

hughie1986 wrote:No stag it is a problem, all the country should have the right to watch the national team for free, hence the fact the government came out and made this law I think. After sky tried to put the football on sky only, it was said that all rugby and football home games would be free to air

Perhaps you better get on to the IRFU on why they're breaking the law. This is serious if they agreed to a game that they knew would break the law.

by Boyne Wed 22 Jun 2011, 11:09 am

Nottins- yes because it was outbid by Sky. I think the arguement is that the IRFU should have told the RFU to go play someone else... but the IRFU dont really care about the Irish rugby public- as highlighted by the ticketing price scandal...

Greybeard- wasnt it England who threatened to leave the 6 nations because they wanted a much larger share of the TV rights than the rest of the nations..? I think they were told to behave and all was settled- could be wrong..

by greybeard Wed 22 Jun 2011, 11:10 am

nottins wrote:A lot of you seem to be missing this part of the articcle, "with RTÉ admitting it was only able to afford to broadcast two of the four Tests "

There are other stations that could have bid, such as TG4. Just because RTE couldn't afford it doesn't mean dealing with Sky was the only option available. Best one, maybe, but not the only one.

by Suspicious lurker Wed 22 Jun 2011, 11:11 am

Hammer,

There may be some loophole that let's friendly games out of it, I'm searching for it now to try find out exactly what the story is

by mrsuperclear Wed 22 Jun 2011, 11:13 am

Nothing new Nottins. Sure RTÉ couldn't even afford to outbid TG4 for deferred heineken cup coverage next season. They don't have that much money unfortunately.

Honestly lads I don't think this is worth getting worked up over. Tickets to the match are €20 so go if you want to or else go to the pub and watch it or find a link. The French matches will be on tv and probably the Scotland match as well because I don't see Sky arsing themselves bidding for that. Spend €20 at the pub or in lansdowne, it won't kill you either way.

And anyone criticising the IRFU should think about this: four years ago our warm up matches were against Italy and Scotland and we were completely undercooked. The IRFU are absolutely right to get a fourth fixture in against a better nation even if it is at the expense of it being televised. It's a trade off worth making in my opinion.

by nottins Wed 22 Jun 2011, 11:18 am

The IRFU wanted the game against England over and above the thre matches they had already arranged, the RFU let them know their terms, the IRFU could have walked away, so don't blame it on the RFU.

If RTE can only afford to pay for two games (both against France), what makes you think they had the money for the England game ? Also there is the small matter of the Scotland v Ireland game that no one has bought the rights to.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 22 Jun 2011, 11:20 am

Boyne, as I recall it, the RFU signed a deal with Sky for England's home games without consulting any of the other unions. Understandably, they were pretty peeved about it.

by Boyne Wed 22 Jun 2011, 11:23 am

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Boyne, as I recall it, the RFU signed a deal with Sky for England's home games without consulting any of the other unions. Understandably, they were pretty peeved about it.

Ah OK. I was confusing it with the time England wanted to join the tri nations, because the competition wasnt fierce enough up here (or is that a myth?).. Doh

by robbo277 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 12:49 pm

Boyne, that's not exactly what happened, is it? ARU cheif John O'Neill wanted to expand the Tri-Nations by including England and France (even if not the best, certainly the two largest NH rugby nations), and Nick Mallett was the one who said England and France were right up there with the SANZAR nations, and stated that the other 4 Nations weren't as competitive.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/1149573.stm

Back on topic, I can't see what the RFU have done wrong. I don't see why Ireland should get to choose who hosts the match on television, just because Ireland get to host the match at the Aviva. Can we not have it at Twickenham and on Sky then? It was obviously a negotiation process. England, with 2 home matches (including the Barbarians) and 2 away matches will be in a financially worse position than most years, which would be made even worse if they lost Sky's money for their two away games. The RFU did what they had to do and the IRFU accepted the terms.

I don't think this is the thin end of the wedge at all. Sky aren't bidding for Ireland games, they're bidding for England games, because they get the large viewing figures (due to the large population) and they make the money. The only other time England play Ireland is the Six Nations, and I think those matches are protected so that Sky can't bid for them.

by HammerofThunor Wed 22 Jun 2011, 12:53 pm

Somebody (ex-England player I think) outside the RFU and associated with the media said it.

Luckless, so the others got their knickers in a twist because the RFU sold the home game TV rights to someone. Aren't some people on here and the Welsh equivalent thread getting their knickers in a twist because they feel the IRFU and WRU don't have the same rights?

Rob, of course the IRFU have the rights to TV games for the home games. The RFU organised their own games. However if the IRFU want the game more the RFU then the RFU are in a stronger position in terms of payment. The All Blacks get a hefty payout when they have away games because people want to play them.

I'd say the IRFU probably do want the game more than us. After all a nice, confidence-boosting thrashing before the world cup would go down a lot better than out defeat Sad

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 22 Jun 2011, 1:04 pm

Hammer, I'm sorry but I don't understand what point you're trying to make!

by TheGreyGhost Wed 22 Jun 2011, 1:07 pm

Will it be on extraterrestrial television?

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 22 Jun 2011, 1:19 pm

Right, I'm complaining about that last comment. You clearly have an axe to grind against aliens.

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