IRB World Rankings ... Part 1

First topic message reminder :

Current World Rankings

IRB
http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html

4Ns Round 1
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/fixtures/international.html

September 2012

Sat 15 Rugby Championship / Freedom Cup
New Zealand v South Africa, Dunedin
19:35 local, 07:35 GMT, 08:35 BST

nzl (on 92.43 points) at home -vs- rsa (on 84.20 points)

If nzl win by 1-15 points 0.000 92.43 84.20 No
If nzl win by more than 15 0.000 92.43 84.20 No
If result is a draw 1.000 91.43 85.20 No
If rsa win by 1-15 points 2.000 90.43 86.20 No
If rsa win by more than 15 3.000 89.43 87.20 No

Sat 15 Rugby Championship
Australia v Argentina, Gold Coast
20:05 local, 10:05 GMT, 11:05 BST

aus (on 86.62 points) at home -vs- arg (on 79.34 points)

If aus win by 1-15 points 0.000 86.62 79.34 No
If aus win by more than 15 0.000 86.62 79.34 No
If result is a draw 1.000 85.62 80.34 No
If arg win by 1-15 points 2.000 84.62 81.34 No
If arg win by more than 15 3.000 83.62 82.34 No

[ed]

Original post:

Pretty much World rankings provide both an 'official' balance sheet and P/L account of international bragging rights.

Sources:
IRB Rankings : http://www.irb.com/rankings/index.html
Rankings explanation : http://www.irb.com/rankings/explain/index.html
Rankings archive : http://www.irb.com/rankings/archive/index.html

Online calculator (Courtesy of Robbo277 (thanks)) : http://www.lassen.co.nz/pagmisc.php#hrh

Portnoy wrote:I hate to reveal this, but if Wales lose in they will probably immediately fall to 6-8th (before the 3/4th playoff).

My fellow welsh will be up in arms about that, but hardly seems unfair since should that happen they will have a worse torunament record than Ireland and England and were lower pre-torunament.

If Wales lose by more than 15 points they go to 8th!

Don't see the logic behind falling a possible 4 places by losing to the side ranked one place below us.

If we win where do we stand, is it possible to overtake SA and/or Aus?

Knowsit17 wrote:Don't see the logic behind falling a possible 4 places by losing to the side ranked one place below us.

If we win where do we stand, is it possible to overtake SA and/or Aus?

All the sources are in the OP Knowsit, and the various potential outcomes are outlined on the previous page.

Well rankings are the moment are

France 3rd
SA 4th
England 5th
Wales 6th

HammerofThunor wrote:Well rankings are the moment are

France 3rd
SA 4th
England 5th
Wales 6th

Laughable

wales606 wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Well rankings are the moment are

France 3rd
SA 4th
England 5th
Wales 6th

Laughable

Looks about right to me.

how the hell does that work?

It is silly that teams that are not even playing move up.

Well someone's got to move up if someone else goes down don't they.

welshy824 wrote:how the hell does that work?

Works by the fact Wales were quite low already. The only sides they've beat were Samoa, Fiji, Namibia and Ireland. So they weren't that far ahead of England and France before this game.

Cruel, several months worth of effort and hard work undone by the narrowest of undeserved losses.

I really hope we turn France inside out at the 6N now, hope their luck gets shoved up them in the final.

Knowsit17 wrote:Cruel, several months worth of effort and hard work undone by the narrowest of undeserved losses.

I really hope we turn France inside out at the 6N now, hope their luck gets shoved up them in the final.

That's the way it works. If you look at the the explanations link in the OP.

Go geddem Knowsit!

Wales' record in the last 24 months:

Wom 13 Drawn 1 Lost 17

Only 6 of those wins were against tier one natiosn.

Their world cup tournamnet record is worse than England and Irelands despite having progressed further.

Thats why they arent ranked highly, despite stringing together their best run of performances for years.
They keep losing. The weakness in the rankings is that its results based, not performance based. But Wales are consistent losers.

Cymroglan wrote:It is silly that teams that are not even playing move up.

That really is a nonsensical comment.

Provisional rankings after semis:

1 (=) NEW ZEALAND 90.62 91.34
2 (=) AUSTRALIA 87.21 86.49
3 (+2) FRANCE 82.68 84.79
4 (-1) SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
5 (+1) ENGLAND 81.58
6 (-2) WALES 83.21 81.10
7 (=) IRELAND 80.65
8 (=) ARGENTINA 80.28

Shame for Wales to drop after a one point loss,but they could jump back up if they beat the Aussies so lets see next week where we all end up.

points are weighted because the world cup is more important(you cant not weight points- you would have irrelevant rankings)- there is surely qualifying for the lesser nations- so double ranking points in the world cup is one of those rewards for getting there

So where will Wales end up if they beat Australia?

i think 3rd

mckay1402 wrote:So where will Wales end up if they beat Australia?

Phhok de rankings. Wales would be, and should be - elated. An SH scalp, in the SH? Midst the RWC? That could be Wales best ever performance in the pro game right there. They should just out-sexy Oz. Run at them. Run round them. Run thro them

Take it - and if you can and build on it... Who gives a flyin-phhok about rankings?

Faletau to Leinster!

Thank you Gibson - I'm off to bed its been a long weekend - I'm sure Alain Rolland isnt really Irish

Gibson wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:So where will Wales end up if they beat Australia?

Phhok de rankings. Wales would be, and should be - elated. An SH scalp, in the SH? Midst the RWC? That could be Wales best ever performance in the pro game right there. They should just out-sexy Oz. Run at them. Run round them. Run thro them

Take it - and if you can and build on it... Who gives a flyin-phhok about rankings?

Faletau to Leinster!

We did the exact same in 87 so it wouldnt really be Wales best performance.

Ee eez, mon chara. The best ref in the World as it appens. Who else would have de balls? Others - ave been auled up, because they did not do the same. See ye lot in the 1st 6-N game. Yer Welsh arses... are Ours.

.

That it Wales have a foundation now and they must build on it,not stand around kicking stones thinking what could have been.

Do Wales drop further ranking places (to 7th/8th/9th?) if they lose to Aus? Or are Aus too far ahead of Wales in rankings points for Wales' points to take a hit?

One of Aus or Wales (and almost certainly France) are going to lose 3 games in a World Cup - not good for your rankings at all when they're doubled!

Yeah you're right there milk, If only we had a great world cup like England we'd be right up there now

1(1) NEW ZEALAND 90.62
2(3)  AUSTRALIA 87.21
3(2) SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
4(6)  WALES 83.21
5(8)  FRANCE 82.68
6(4) ENGLAND 81.58
7(5) IRELAND 80.65
8(7) ARGENTINA 80.28
9(9) TONGA 76.63
10(10) SCOTLAND 76.20


And a win over Australia and a French loss could see Wales in third

maestegmafia wrote:1(1) NEW ZEALAND 90.62
2(3)  AUSTRALIA 87.21
3(2) SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
4(6)  WALES 83.21
5(8)  FRANCE 82.68
6(4) ENGLAND 81.58
7(5) IRELAND 80.65
8(7) ARGENTINA 80.28
9(9) TONGA 76.63
10(10) SCOTLAND 76.20


And a win over Australia and a French loss could see Wales in third

The official current table does not normally come out until lunchtime today maesteg. You table is from last Monday.

Will update the possible outcomes later.

Wales are currently 6th and England 5th with the mighty French 4th

So, Wales could drop below Argentina?

SafeAsMilk wrote:So, Wales could drop below Argentina?

Do not take my figures as gospel SAM, Neither I nor the software is perfect.

Patience...

Sure thing Portnoy.

Will that make you happy then Milk ,, if it does its ok with me

Would be nice for Argentina to move up, but otherwise not bothered

It would be nice if the IRB updated their rankings.

It's a bit like being a teenager after experiencing a close encounter of a certain kind...

Aha. At last.

http://www.irb.com/rankings/index.html

Give me a few minutes to process the potentials...

Just been looking at the rankings, and I am sure that Portnoy will give us the definitive answer here shortly, but as far as I can tell, if France and Australia both win by 15+ points this weekend, then Australia will be ranked 1, France 2, and the AB's 3, despite the AB's beating both of those sides in this competition and having lost fewer game sin the competition than both of them.

That surely cannot be right?????

RWC Rankings potentials to finals.

All countries playing on neutral territory except nzl.
Double points for RWC

Current standings (official)


1 1 0 NEW ZEALAND 91.34
2 2 0 AUSTRALIA 86.49
3 5 2 FRANCE 84.79
4 3 -1 SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
5 6 1 ENGLAND 81.58
6 4 -2 WALES 81.1
7 7 0 IRELAND 80.65
8 8 0 ARGENTINA 80.28
9 9 0 TONGA 76.63
10 10 0 SCOTLAND 76.2

Fixtures source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/fixtures/4776295.stm

Friday, 21 October 2011
Wales v Australia, 3rd/, 08:30


Sunday, 23 October 2011
France v New Zealand, F, 09:00


Possible Outcome /Rating Point Exchange /New 'home' Rating /New 'away' Rating / Will 'home overtake 'away'?

If wal win by 1-15 points 3.078 84.18 83.41 Yes
If wal win by more than 15 4.617 85.72 81.87 Yes
If result is a draw 1.078 82.18 85.41 No
If aus win by 1-15 points 0.922 80.18 87.41 No
If aus win by more than 15 1.383 79.72 87.87 No

If nzl win by 1-15 points 0.090 91.43 84.70 No
If nzl win by more than 15 0.135 91.48 84.66 No
If result is a draw 1.910 89.43 86.70 No
If fra win by 1-15 points 3.910 87.43 88.70 Yes
If fra win by more than 15 5.865 85.48 90.66 Yes

Ozzy3213 wrote:Just been looking at the rankings, and I am sure that Portnoy will give us the definitive answer here shortly, but as far as I can tell, if France and Australia both win by 15+ points this weekend, then Australia will be ranked 1, France 2, and the AB's 3, despite the AB's beating both of those sides in this competition and having lost fewer game sin the competition than both of them.

That surely cannot be right?????

You do have to emphasise the if in that comment Ozzy.

There again a 15+ winning margin might be fairly representative (but not sure that the 3/4 playoffs make a truly representative contest in the context of IRB rankings)

If France win by 1pt they become the best team in the world...seems inaccurate, that would make the Tongans and the New Zealanders of last month extra-terrestrials...

Some one help me out here, Wales went out in the Semi final.
England went out in the quarter final and England are above Wales in the IRB rankins.

Although i am an England fan, i would of thought that Wales would be above England with Wales getting thorugh to the Semi Final.

majesticimperialman wrote:Some one help me out here, Wales went out in the Semi final.
England went out in the quarter final and England are above Wales in the IRB rankins.

Although i am an England fan, i would of thought that Wales would be above England with Wales getting thorugh to the Semi Final.

how does that work- both teams got beat by the same team- england have a better recent record, won the 2011 6n's and only lost 1 game in 5 during the world cup- wales lost 2.

i am not syaing that england are playing better rugby- just that it makes sense that they are above.

anyway if wales can beat aus- they will surely have a crack at getting above england any way

This is hilararious.

aucklandlaurie wrote:This is hilararious.

I'm pretty sure that I have made a mistake or two somewhere

But this is my first attempt at all the possible rankings outcomes after the final matches are completed.

I'll recaclcuate...



If wal win by 1-15 points
If nzl win by 1-15 points

1 NEW ZEALAND 91.43
2 FRANCE 84.70
3 SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
4 WALES 84.18
5 AUSTRALIA 83.41
6 ENGLAND 81.58
7 IRELAND 80.65
8 ARGENTINA 80.28
9 TONGA 76.63
10 SCOTLAND

If wal win by 1-15 points
If nzl win by more than 15

1 NEW ZEALAND 91.48
2 FRANCE 84.66
3 SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
4 WALES 84.18
5 AUSTRALIA 83.41
6 ENGLAND 81.58
7 IRELAND 80.65
8 ARGENTINA 80.28
9 TONGA 76.63
10 SCOTLAND 76.2


If wal win by more than 15
If nzl win by 1-15 points

1 NEW ZEALAND 91.43
2 WALES 85.72
3 FRANCE 84.70
4 SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
5 AUSTRALIA 81.87
6 ENGLAND 81.58
7 IRELAND 80.65
8 ARGENTINA 80.28
9 TONGA 76.63
10 SCOTLAND 76.2


If wal win by more than 15
If nzl win by more than 15

1 NEW ZEALAND 91.48
2 WALES 85.72
3 FRANCE 84.66
4 SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
5 AUSTRALIA 81.87
6 ENGLAND 81.58
7 IRELAND 80.65
8 ARGENTINA 80.28
9 TONGA 76.63
10 SCOTLAND 76.2


If aus win by 1-15 points
If nzl win by 1-15 points

1 NEW ZEALAND 91.43
2 AUSTRALIA 87.41
3 FRANCE 84.70
4 SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
5 ENGLAND 81.58
6 WALES 80.18
7 IRELAND 80.65
8 ARGENTINA 80.28
9 TONGA 76.63
10 SCOTLAND 76.2

If aus win by 1-15 points
If nzl win by more than 15

1 NEW ZEALAND 91.48
2 AUSTRALIA 87.41
3 FRANCE 84.66
4 SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
5 ENGLAND 81.58
6 IRELAND 80.65
7 ARGENTINA 80.28
8 WALES 80.18
9 TONGA 76.63
10 SCOTLAND 76.2


If aus win by more than 15
If fra win by 1-15 points

1 FRANCE 88.70
2 AUSTRALIA 87.87
3 NEW ZEALAND 87.43
4 SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
5 ENGLAND 81.58
6 IRELAND 80.65
7 ARGENTINA 80.28
8 WALES 80.18
9 TONGA 76.63A
10 SCOTLAND 76.2

If aus win by more than 15
If fra win by more than 15

1 FRANCE 90.66
2 AUSTRALIA 87.87
3 NEW ZEALAND 85.48
4 SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
5 ENGLAND 81.58
6 IRELAND 80.65
7 ARGENTINA 80.28
8 WALES 79.72
9 TONGA 76.63
10 SCOTLAND 76.2

Looking at it again, I won't recalculate.

But I'll accept specific challenges.

If Wales win they go 3rd - Simples

RubyGuby wrote:If Wales win they go 3rd - Simples

By my dodgy calculations If Wales win they go 2nd or 4th. And never 3rd.