James Hook looks set to miss his side's last two pool games...!

Welsh full-back James Hook looks set to miss his side's last two pool games and potentially a quarter-final due to a shoulder injury

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7188239,00.html

if 1/2p hadn't looked so good when he came on I'd have been worried, but as he played so well, I'm not.

Bad luck for Hook, but I honestly think we'll cope fine without him now. Definitely would be a boost for us though if he got back fit for the KO rounds, although to be fair, we're plaing ko rugby already!

rugbydreamer wrote:if 1/2p hadn't looked so good when he came on I'd have been worried, but as he played so well, I'm not.

Bad luck for Hook, but I honestly think we'll cope fine without him now. Definitely would be a boost for us though if he got back fit for the KO rounds, although to be fair, we're plaing ko rugby already!

Half Penny looked alright at 15 but he needs a few games there to give me any confidence in him.

He is a great winger and a hell of a goal kicker.

I think we will miss Hook at the Quarters if we win our next two games.

Lets hope he gets fit fast...

Priestland at 10 Halfpenny 15 would give us more in attack. Hook at 15 has been OK and thats about it and I'm sure a off form Byrne would have played no worse.
We need Hook because he is a quality player but need him more as cover at 10.

As much as I have admired Hook as a player, I said in the other thread I dont believe he has a place in the starting lineup anymore, unless Priestland is injuerd.

That said though, I think hes a good bench player covering many positions so I would hope hes back as soon as possible. Halfpenny could be exceptional at fullback so he needs some time there.

In all honesty though, I think we would miss Lydiate more, so I hope his injury is not serious.

I honestly don't think its that big a deal.

For me he hasn't done the biz at XV and Halfpenny looked good there plus we still have Byrne who will safe if nothing else.

Priestland has done enough to hold onto the 10 shirt and there is still Wellies.

JD2 has come in for a lot of stick but he seems to be bringing the best out of Roberts at the mo, will be good to get a good look at Scott Willimas though.

Lydiate would be the bigger blow if ruled out for Fiji game and hopefully beyond

Lydiate is def the bigger blow - I think the half Halfpenny played showed what we'd been missing at FB - it's not Hooks fault, he's not a FB. Hook is a centre or a 10, and Priestland has claimed the 10 shirt and I personally wouldn't mess with the centre pairing as JD is getting the best out of Roberts and they look rock solid in defence and against Samoa JD2 was looking a bit better, breaking the lines ect.

As a result I think Hook would be on the bench and an excellent option to bring on in any of those positions. But as he's injured don't think we'd miss him much until the QF

I think we have started expecting to much from Hook and placing all our hopes on him, much like we have done with Shane over the years.

Hook is undoubtedly talented and can turn a game on its head in an instant but he hasn't nailed down a starting slot yet at either 10, centre or XV.

I said before the WC started that he would be my 10 but Priestland has impressed me hugely and (injury or rest aside) deserves to keep the shirt.

Which for me does leave bench the only place for Hook at the moment and he could be great of the bench in last 10-15 etc.

The decision to bench hook should have been from the start of the rwc.
jd2 works with roberts not against his running lines, which hook invariably does at centre. 1/2 would be well in by now at 15 although needing more game time . as i said on another thread, this obsession with 'finding a place for hook' has possibly cost us our best combinations coming together sooner.

well said Gavstar

"Finding" a place for Hook has caused Wales problems for several seasons. Now Gatland can concentrate on getting a balanced team out. Sad for Hook But we always knew there would be casualties in this world Cup pool with so many physical teams.

I don't agree with most Welsh fans about 1/2p though. One replacement game against a poor Samoa team does not make him a World class full back, we have not seen him in defence or taking up and under yet, and he could be an accident waiting to happen.

Give him a run against Namibia and maybe Fiji, but if he struggles against Fiji then go for Bryne!

Alyn,

He was tested often yesterday and coped ok, not world class I know but then again neither is Hook at XV.

We need to start letting players concentrate on one position rather than swapping and changing them.

gavstar wrote:The decision to bench hook should have been from the start of the rwc.
jd2 works with roberts not against his running lines, which hook invariably does at centre. 1/2 would be well in by now at 15 although needing more game time . as i said on another thread, this obsession with 'finding a place for hook' has possibly cost us our best combinations coming together sooner.

Spot on ........... been happening for last three years

bedfordwelsh wrote:Alyn,

He was tested often yesterday and coped ok, not world class I know but then again neither is Hook at XV.

We need to start letting players concentrate on one position rather than swapping and changing them.

I think versatility is part of the modern game though.
Welsh Players who play lots of positions, are generally the ones who get a lot of caps and have long careers, look at Gareth Thomas, Colin Charvis etc.

no disrespect to hook but when he came off at half time i actually saw an improvement, now i know hook is not a natural 15 but halfpenny looked more potent in attack.

personally more concerned if lydiates out as who is there to replace him? powell did ok but we really missed his big hits and cant see turnball or tipuric or delve being as good as him. i have been bigging him up since the autumn internationals while everyone focussed on warburton and i believe we are going with the old saying, "you dont miss something until you can have it"

What's the news on Lydiate?

Hook is not a 15 , he's a 10 and a class above the promising, but still inexperienced Priestland. Problem is I'm not sure how good a 15 Halfpenny is against a structured team with strong tactical kicking.

Like Ireland, for example. But that, hopefully, is a couple of weeks away.

samuraidragon wrote:Hook is not a 15 , he's a 10 and a class above the promising, but still inexperienced Priestland. Problem is I'm not sure how good a 15 Halfpenny is against a structured team with strong tactical kicking.

Like Ireland, for example. But that, hopefully, is a couple of weeks away.

you see i dont think he is a class above priestland, hook isint a natural 10 all too often he attempts to go alone and do too much whereas priestland goes if its on if not he distributes it well or kicks well.

i really think hook is overrated- yes he is a good player but there are players who are better than him in those positions, surely we are not going to do a nz and try and base our squad around him (nz reference to SBW)

welshy824 wrote:

samuraidragon wrote:Hook is not a 15 , he's a 10 and a class above the promising, but still inexperienced Priestland. Problem is I'm not sure how good a 15 Halfpenny is against a structured team with strong tactical kicking.

Like Ireland, for example. But that, hopefully, is a couple of weeks away.

you see i dont think he is a class above priestland, hook isint a natural 10 all too often he attempts to go alone and do too much whereas priestland goes if its on if not he distributes it well or kicks well.

i really think hook is overrated- yes he is a good player but there are players who are better than him in those positions, surely we are not going to do a nz and try and base our squad around him (nz reference to SBW)

welshy
You are spot on, most Welsh fans are now beginning to realise that as well just looking at the 3 warm-up games alone it was clear who was the most complete 10 of the two.......... as can be see from this forum site even most of the ardent pro Hook supporters have put their hands up and said "yes enough evidence".

Unfortunately you'll always get the blindly biased, akin to a mother who won't hear anything wrong with her "disruptive son" ................ no offence to any of the posters on here but you'll never get them to say otherwise

"Hook is a world class 10", "Hook is a world class 10", "Hook is a world class 10", "Hook is a world class 10", "Hook is a world class 10",................ no no don't interupt............ "Hook is a world class 10",

Sorry my post above is in the wrong place I meant it to be posted regarding Jon Davies

glamorganalun wrote:Sorry my post above is in the wrong place I meant it to be posted regarding Jon Davies

Alun me old mucker

You have got JDII on your bounce hahaha

I have just wacked a £10 on a Scotland and Wales double win next................. SO DON'T LET ME DOWN

flyhalffactory wrote:I have just wacked a £10 on a Scotland and Wales double win next................. SO DON'T LET ME DOWN

I can't see Wales losing to Namibia, but then again we can lose to anyone... "on our day of course"

Monday, Tuesday ...... happy days

flyhalffactory - "You are spot on, most Welsh fans are now beginning to realise that as well just looking at the 3 warm-up games alone it was clear who was the most complete 10 of the two.........."

Oh go on then - I'll take the bait! Problem with Priestland is that, by international standards, he is mediocre with the boot. (Same as Stephen Jones - except that Priestland isn't riddled with the old age arthritis).

At least Hook can kick the ball a respectable distance and is half-decent at drop-goals.

Bottom line - assuming we beat Fiji - with Hook at 10 against Ireland we'll probably win. Without him there we'll probably lose.

MR F

Your rationale for including Hook has always been his
1. big boot and
2. his speed.

None are vital for a modern fly half............ and even more so listen to Dan Carter

3. Link play
4. Decision making
5. Defence
6. Turn-overs
7. Awareness
8. Management of the team and game position
9. Play for 80 mins, not 25mins
10. Accuracy with the boot

are much more important.

He stated with an obvious reference to the "headline opportunists" whose overall play is often masked by the very few "frontpage moments",

"you run when its the most adventageous to run"

Priestland did miss the drop, but it was Hooks two misses that should have got you the win against SA, if Priestland had been aloowed to kick those they wouldn't have 1. been so high that you couldn't tell if they were thro the posts or not 2. he wouldn't have missed the last one. Silly really that comment as we wouldnt have known whether Priestland would have converted them but what we do know his that Hook missed 6pts and you lost by 1pt

To end
I have always stated that if Hook had played 10 against SA, or Samoa you would have lost.

MrFahrenheit wrote:flyhalffactory - "You are spot on, most Welsh fans are now beginning to realise that as well just looking at the 3 warm-up games alone it was clear who was the most complete 10 of the two.........."

Oh go on then - I'll take the bait! Problem with Priestland is that, by international standards, he is mediocre with the boot. (Same as Stephen Jones - except that Priestland isn't riddled with the old age arthritis).

At least Hook can kick the ball a respectable distance and is half-decent at drop-goals.

Bottom line - assuming we beat Fiji - with Hook at 10 against Ireland we'll probably win. Without him there we'll probably lose.

but if you leave hook out of the starting 15 you can bring in halfpenny who has a bigger boot than bot hook and priestland- also offering more in attack

and i believe priestland booted the ball about 80m to get a lineout in the opp 22 against SA so he does have a big boot, also priestland has good turn of speed aswel.

problem was with both drop goals is priestland rushed them, and do you think that hook would have got the DG against SA under that amount of pressure

Need to get Stephen Jones up and running against Namibia I think. Priestland has played well, but you'll need a back-up option and with Hook's injury, you don't want to risk Priestland being the only fit 10 for the knock-out games.

Use Halfpenny at 15 with Byrne getting a shot off the bench. I'd probably repeat that for Fiji as well.

The Lydiate injury is worrying. Hope he gets back to full fitness in time for the knock-out stuff. He was awesome against SA, and will be much needed if Wales go on the face Ferris, O'Brien and co.

IF and I still won't take anything for granted as am sure the Irish are not but if we do end up with a Wales Irelnad quarter final I just hope our back row is fit.

A match up of Lydiate, Faletau and Warburton against O'Brien, Heaslip and Ferris will be top draw.

Link play, Decision making, Awareness, Management of the team and game position, Play for 80 mins, not 25mins, etc. are all fine words strung together.

Pleasing for the old-school romantics and those who grew up watching rugby in the seventies. Those who love nothing more than to see a playmaker in midfield with soft hands and plenty of dog.

Poetry and prose aside - the fact is that during periods when Hook is at 10, we score more points than the opposition.

MrFahrenheit wrote:Link play, Decision making, Awareness, Management of the team and game position, Play for 80 mins, not 25mins, etc. are all fine words strung together.

Pleasing for the old-school romantics and those who grew up watching rugby in the seventies. Those who love nothing more than to see a playmaker in midfield with soft hands and plenty of dog.

Poetry and prose aside - the fact is that during periods when Hook is at 10, we score more points than the opposition.

Sorry Mr F thats not correct at all

MrFahrenheit:

True, for me the choice is a no brainer but e is injured so from Preistland and Jones it is a no brainer and it is not S Jones.

alun,

I think for most of us now Hook is injured it has to be Priestland (would be for me anyway) but in case his injury is worse than expected Jones has to have some game time before the quarters if we get there.

welshy824 wrote:you see i dont think he is a class above priestland, hook isint a natural 10 all too often he attempts to go alone and do too much whereas priestland goes if its on if not he distributes it well or kicks well.

This is a common view, but wrong, I think. Hook had one and a half games at 10 in the warm-ups and three in the 6N. He had a poor game against France - Wales were poor altogether - but was very good in the other 4 games, which we won. Did he try to do too much? I don't think so. Against both Ireland and Argentina he played a gritty, attritional game, with some superb line-kicking. He made the decisive break for the try against England*, but apart from that didn't do much running. So I think it's wrong to see Hook as a fancy dan fly-half. He has a wider repertoire than that. But he is NOT a 15 (did I say that before?). Makes no more sense to put him there than Stephen Jones and a lot less than Priestland.

* I would date our mini-revival from that exact point. Confidence is very important to us Welsh, and without it we play far below our level of skill - as we had been doing since the last Grand Slam. We hadn't shown much in the first warm-up vs. England, and could easily have lost the second given the limited possession and territory. We never looked like beating England in the 6N with Stephen Jones at 10. Now we are overflowing with confidence, and players like AWJ, Roberts and Bennett, as well as the new boys, are giving their all. Funny old game.

Bedford :

Agree with your comments, Jones to come off the bench if all is going well, in fact Jones plays better off the bench when everybody else has slowed down.