Thank you, James Hook

Thanks. That's two matches we've lost because of your goalkicking.

NOTE: I know that's harsh and perhaps not entirely accurate; but I don't care. This is a place for debate, isn't it?

3 if you include the SA game...sort of, thats finger pointing a bit.

lol- he is not the messiah, he is a naughty, naughty boy

He has just never instilled confidence in me as a kicking 10.

Matchwinner on his day but very prone to those mistakes that cost matches.

Bit harsh to say he lost Wales the match but he did'nt have a good game again.

What day was that?

there is no avoiding it now, the guy is never going to play 10 again and will be lucky to be on the bench in feb

HOOK IS NOT A 10.

Two games this WC he has had a chance to 'prove' himself and he's failed on both accounts.

His kicking out of hand was terrible as well to a very useful and attack minded back three.

He still has part to play in Welsh squads but doesn't desreve a starting spot at the moment.

Good luck in France and I hope it does for his carear what it did for Alfie and Wellies.

I would bite your arm off to have someone like Hook playing 10 from Scotland. 2008 Wales grandslam I would say Hook was your best player, he almost single handedly beat England at Twickers.

More recently he gave Desperate Dan Parks a painful lesson in how to play 10 in the 2011 6N.

Priestland I reckon is a better player but Hook is a 10 and a pretty good one at that.

You shouldn't be thanking Hooky.... You should be thanking Wayne Barnes... Who says all Englishmen are ABW?

That outrageous forward pass by Hook, thrown so far infront of ickle shane that he had to kick it, was allowed by Barnes & Co.

We need to bring on our young 10's as S Jones was also poor in both games, I thought we were going to the RWC from a position of strength but this is not how it turned out. I also thought we would stuff their scrum, but it shows how good A Jones is we were under pressure in the scrum and line out we just had no platform.

Jason Tovey needs to get a chance at international level now. Behind a strong pack he could be sublime.

Just to point out that Wales had a better goal kicking percentage than Austrlia in that game, so its very harsh.

Wales lost agaiunst SA because they werent good enough.
They lost against France because of Warburtons red card.
They lost against Aus because they werent good enough.

The kicking didnt help, and yes if they had kicked 75% they would have had the opportunity to lose the quarter finals to australia rather than the semi losers final....but to blame it entirely for their loses is silly.

glamorganalun wrote:We need to bring on our young 10's as S Jones was also poor in both games, I thought we were going to the RWC from a position of strength but this is not how it turned out. I also thought we would stuff their scrum, but it shows how good A Jones is we were under pressure in the scrum and line out we just had no platform.

Any ideas why James (and effectively Bevington) was selected ahead of Mitchell?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Just to point out that Wales had a better goal kicking percentage than Austrlia in that game, so its very harsh.

Wales lost agaiunst SA because they werent good enough.
They lost against France because of Warburtons red card.
They lost against Aus because they werent good enough.

The kicking didnt help, and yes if they had kicked 75% they would have had the opportunity to lose the quarter finals to australia rather than the semi losers final....but to blame it entirely for their loses is silly.

what does that mean though, on examination it is clear, they lost to SA because their kicking wasn't good enough, ditto France ditto Aus.

The red card is a red herring, we should have kicked 1 of the 4 missed kicks.

In the past I've stood up to Hook by saying it's not fair that he gets switched around. But he's had a fair crack now and his all round game isn't great.

Australia had a much bettr kicking game driving the ball low.

Hooks also dropped a few catches when playing/covering full back.

Wales looked much sharper when Phillips and Hook went off - the ball was quicker and passes were flat - all of a sudden Roberts and Davies were in the game and we started making yards.

Even Ryan jones looked better today

The reintroduction of Adam Jones, Sam and Matthew Rees will make a huge difference up front.

Was AWJ injured? why didn't he start?

Gatts wrote:there is no avoiding it now, the guy is never going to play 10 again and will be lucky to be on the bench in feb

am pretty sure he will play 10 in a few weeks time when Perpignan visit the dragons

True, whocares - it would be interesting to know what the USAP coaching staff made of Hook's performances at 10 in this RWC?

USAP are currently a bit in shambles (having lost their last 2 games) so Hook will fit in perfectly.

seriously, Porical should be first choice full back (and with kicking duty as well) and mermoz/marty would be the centre partnership so Hook best chance is at 10 where he would have to compete with laharague and hume.

I've said before on here that if Hook was anything other than Welsh, he'd be a permanent fixture in the team as a ball-playing centre. It's only this mythologising of the number 10 position that creates the media and public pressure to play a talented running and passing player there rather than someone who is a good game manager and a reliable player overall.

Anyway, once Priestland's back to being fit, it should become a non-issue.

Gatts wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Just to point out that Wales had a better goal kicking percentage than Austrlia in that game, so its very harsh.

Wales lost agaiunst SA because they werent good enough.
They lost against France because of Warburtons red card.
They lost against Aus because they werent good enough.

The kicking didnt help, and yes if they had kicked 75% they would have had the opportunity to lose the quarter finals to australia rather than the semi losers final....but to blame it entirely for their loses is silly.

what does that mean though, on examination it is clear, they lost to SA because their kicking wasn't good enough, ditto France ditto Aus.

The red card is a red herring, we should have kicked 1 of the 4 missed kicks.

If their tackling , passing, running, pshcology, fitness, luck, or number of poached new zelanders had been better then they also wouldnt have lost any of those games. Why focus on just the goal kicking? Australias was equally as bad, and Hook wasnt the only bad goal kicker. Its ridiculous to single him out.
The red card certainly isnt a red herring, without it Wales would have strolled the game even with Jones missing a sitter.

1 from 4 against France wouldn't have been improved if we had 15 men that stat had nothing to with it.

France had 3 kicks and slotted them all so that was difference. To me Hook just seems very low on confidence at the moment.

what a fickle bunch you Welshies are....

cabbage,

Not at all just facing facts, there has always been the two camps as far as Hook is concerned the ones who thinks he best 10 we have and thge others who odn't.

These last two games, whilst I don't lay all blame at his door he has been poor and certainly doesn't warrant the' must get him on the pitch' quoate some use.

We have better 10s, centres and a XV than him ATM.

There's no doubt that Hook has been poor but I honestly hope he gets game time in France and becomes a good 10. The young 10's coming through nees time to learn and develope and while Priestland has been great in the WC and the warm ups I'm still nervous watching him play. Maybe as a Scarlets fan I've seen him have too many nightmares to be comfortable with him yet. Besides the more good players who are playing regularly the better for Wales.

cabbagesandbrussels wrote:what a fickle bunch you Welshies are....

Couldn't agree more!!

sjones improved our play again, as in the last game ,when he came on.
we only scored 3 points first half, and only lost by 3 at the end.

the conversion from jones went over, not drifted as the commentator said.
we were on 11 points, try and conversion took us to 18.

why some hooksters have to say jones was poor I dont know. he had to drag the team together and get some structure out there, which in the limited amount of time he had he managed to do.

yes jones is at the end of his career , but to call him poor after watching such an unstructured performance AGAIN from hook is totally wrong.

if the position was reversed and hook had been brought on to replace jones to try and rescue the game,we would never hear the end of it from the hook brigade. AND YOU KNOW THATS TRUE.

you cant justify hooks 2nd failiure at 10 by saying jones was poor in this game. he wasn't.

Ive never had confidence in Hooks kicking to be fair, Stephen Jones has always instilled me with more confidence in front of the posts. People quote the Grandslam of 2008, yes Hooky had a great kick against England however if memory serves me correct, Stephen Jones came on in the second half against France and steadied the ship

Tactically both very poor at this WC, Hook prob the worst as his kicking was aimless, Jones at least got the ball into touch a few times against France deep into their territory. Who would have thought it but Priestland made a huge difference and I hope it wasn't a flash in the pan.

Gatland now has to find and blood some new number 10s, I think Jones days are coming to an end like Shanes and we need backup or competition for Priestland

I don't think it's us being fickle, it's us lamenting about a guy who says he wants to play 10, says he prefers to play there and has signed for USAP where he thinks they will play him there...yet he just hasn't performed in that position.

Biggar got exiled after a couple of poor performances at 10, if you want to be consistant and stop players resting on their laurels...you need to do that with Hook. With a full fit squad, for me, he wouldn't be in the starting line up. It would be:

9. Phillips
10. Priestland
11. A. N. Other
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. North
15. Halfpenny

So unless he wants to play on the wing...

Gavstar, as an admirer of Hook I'm willing to admit he was very shaky today and looked low on confidence. Futhermore, as a sceptic of S. Jones, i'm willing to admit he did a solid enough job when he came on. I thought he was poor against France, but not today.

As a team, we lacked imagination - the Barnes try was the kind of thing we should have been doing, but didn't - and there were a lot of mistakes all round. Shane should never have tried that drop, Roberts was easily read, our scrummaging was average without Adam, Mike Phillips' distribution was much too slow and he knocked on good possession at the base of the scrum. On the plus side, Lloyd Williams again made a huge difference, AWJ and Ryan showed well, and the line-out was solid, as it has been for most of this tournament.

Samurai, the bottom line is that we're still a very predictable side. Do we still go blind until there's no blindside left? Check. Do we still just give it to a big man to hit it up? Check. We're crying out for more variety and set moves from first phase, but in all the years Howley's been in charge of the backs we've seen no development on that side of things.

LP, agreed on all fronts. I'm heartily sick of the blindside manoevre. Predictable , or what?

It's so frustrating to watch us waste possession. I remember when we used to live off scraps and we would have killed for anything like the possession we get now; but we could and should be making so much better use of it.

The next Barry John.

Or is that Biggar?

Or Morgan?

I can't keep track

Hooks' all round game was terrible today, the man is supposed to be the fourth highest paid player in world rugby! If he is the player the media and some fans make him out to be then he should shine on the big stage, but he had his opportunity and dropped it. It summed it up for me when we had the ball while defending our line, and instead of hoofing it downfield he aimlessly shifted the ball on the JD2. Terrible decision making. If he really wants to play 10 I just hope he can start playing there regularly now in France and improve his all round 10 game.

the only problem for Hook is that he is perceived as a messiah by USAP supporters so he better start to perform (just recently poor laharague who had an average game was booed by his own fans) !
remember they had a certain dan carter playing there not so long ago!
still think they'll give him enough game time to show what he's really worth (well appart from 500keuro per year).

well samurai, goes to show one can't class all hookies as the blind faith.

I would be the first to say jones is at the end of his career, but everyone knew this before the world cup. Unfortunately, we didnt have another 10 up to TACTICAL standard to back up priestland.

Coaching wise ,this an an area of the 10 skill set that is nowhere near developed enough. Yes , tactical knowledge should develop as a player develops, but the wider view I have is that as long as our coaches at regional level are happy with the run,pass, kick ratio the tactical coaching of the 10 is not being developed.

Do the coaches think the forward platform is more important? Well, of course it is you can't do anything without the ball, so platform for possession is priority, and behind a good platform the 10 usually performs better.

However, slow ball, no go forward, and the tactical knowledge is not there from our 10's. Only jones has achieved the level tactically, and so he should, he's been around a long time, lets hope we can get this key part of the 10 's game sorted out with the new 10's on the horizon.

Howley needs to be replaced by a forward thinker who will work on developing total skill set and tells players to play whats in front of them when a plan is not working.

Was it his nod that put hook in at 10 for these last 2 games?

Riskysports wrote:lol- he is not the messiah, he is a naughty, naughty boy

Hook is very much a confidence player if he has doubts about himself then he might as well be taken off whether its the 70th min or the 10th min.

Talented, yes but he does cost Wales games, maybe a couple years in the French leagues will do him the world of good.

Why doesn't Halfpenny take the kicks?

I was one of Hookys biggest fans at the O's. He was superb at 10 between 2007-08, culminating in the EDF cup win. Unfortunately he played himself out of the position with some dire peformances. His kicking goal and field kicking went off target and some of his running was so lateral I thought he was escaping down the tunnel! Rightfully he lost his place do the emerging Biggar but then looked quality at 13. Good luck to him at USAP but for Wales, the dreaded 'utility back' is going to be his calling fron now on it seems.

Unfortunately utility back will only be whatever he is going to be. He has never been good enough to tie a starting slot in the Welsh yeam IMO nad has only evere been a squad player

I cant see him being much more than a squad player in the 6 Nations, if that given he is in France. We all saw what happened with Peel at Sale so James might be in for a spell at his club. I think its Preistland and Tovey now vying for the ten jersey.

Of course there is a wildcard to come into the equation for wales.

He who shall not be named has returned.

Tycroes,

Where will he play though

10 - Will they cut they cut losses and bin Parks

12 - Not while Rorets is there

15 - Hopefully not know that we realise ( like I been saying) that Halfpenny is our bext XV (by far)

Well he knows how to play ten and some of his best games were there. However Sweeney is a tidy player still, Parks meh. I think he will play outside half and inside centre for the Blues. It allows the Blues to rotate their centres playing him and Roberts, him and Laulala or Roberts and Laulala, all of which provide different pros and cons.

Hopefully its Halfpenny and Blair vying for the 15 shirt with Halfpenny becoming first choice. However he can fit in there if there are injuries.

He who shall not be named though with his head switched on playing regular rugby at a welsh region is somthing to seriously consider. If his head is together and he is hungry, then the Blues have a bargain.

Cuthbert at the Blues though looks somthing special, a back three of Halfpenny, Cuthbert and James looks very potent with Fish and Czjekai the blues have some strong players there maybe Blairs days are numbered.

oh yes ! ! and this was a planned move all along (wasn't it ?) come on gav we need you to replace sjonesy!

not many rated lyn jones, I know, but for what its worth he said ''gav was the best reader of the game , had a very sound knowledge of rugby
patterns and plays, a joy to coach, true professional'' love it.

Tycroes,

You hit nail on head IF his head is switch on. I still wait to be proved (hopefully wrong) but I don't think it is

shhhhh dont say his name, once you do rational debate is silenced and the dementors attack

bedfordwelsh wrote:Tycroes,

You hit nail on head IF his head is switch on. I still wait to be proved (hopefully wrong) but I don't think it is

You know Bedford Ive watched him a lot over the years since he was a kid at the all whites, I knew some of the players in the team when he broke through. I think his head is right. He went away after getting injured and did a lot of soul searching. He may be a very naughty boy but hes not quite as dumb as people make out he often acts without thinking about the consequences and often emotionally rather than rationally. He knows why he didnt make this world cup, he knows that had he stayed in wales sucked up a bit of humble pie over charlotte at the Os he would have been in the RWC squad and probably as a first choice rather than always trying to catch up all season. He still believes he can play in a world cup and watching NZ makes him want it more. I think hes very hungry for it, he didnt have to come back to rugby after his injury and I was expecting him to walk away. The fact that he didnt speaks I think volumes.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Tycroes,

You hit nail on head IF his head is switch on. I still wait to be proved (hopefully wrong) but I don't think it is

You know Bedford Ive watched him a lot over the years since he was a kid at the all whites, I knew some of the players in the team when he broke through. I think his head is right. He went away after getting injured and did a lot of soul searching. He may be a very naughty boy but hes not quite as dumb as people make out he often acts without thinking about the consequences and often emotionally rather than rationally. He knows why he didnt make this world cup, he knows that had he stayed in wales sucked up a bit of humble pie over charlotte at the Os he would have been in the RWC squad and probably as a first choice rather than always trying to catch up all season. He still believes he can play in a world cup and watching NZ makes him want it more. I think hes very hungry for it, he didnt have to come back to rugby after his injury and I was expecting him to walk away. The fact that he didnt speaks I think volumes.

Lets hope so, I have never doubted his class but have doubted his mental side, if proved wrong I will more than happy put money whhere mouth is.

Oh yes his emo teen act is a wind up, it must be like dealing with a 16 year old girl for his coaches. I think the way things have panned out may actually be the making of him as a player. I can see why the Ospreys didnt take him back and I think a fresh start would be better for him now. Lets be fair him and Roberts in tandem at the region is good for wales.

Both JH and SJ look woefully out of form.Neither player would deliberately want this.I find it depressing that at a time where we should be elated by this squad's performance people can be *rsed to generate negative threads.How bitter must one be?Many players played above themselves,some didnt,but they were all trying to do their best.Both Hook and Jones have been outstanding for Wales in the past.