james hook going on the lions

After watching warren gatlands interview on rugby club he's said to be taking 2 10s and a player that can play there and a number of other positions so does this mean James Hook is going

I think Hook is a possibility. I personally rate him quite highly, and wonder if he's been slightly underused at 10 by Wales. Seems to divide opinion.

Haven't seen a huge amount of his this season though, so perhaps someone who has been watching the T14 can shed some light as to current form.

Gatland is right to be considering versatility, always extremely helpful on a Lions tour.

Could be Laidlaw ( 9/10) or Farrell ( 10 / 12)ass well but it does seem hook is likely

welshboii15 wrote:After watching warren gatlands interview on rugby club he's said to be taking 2 10s and a player that can play there and a number of other positions so does this mean James Hook is going

Maybe. There's a handful of other "utility" options - Laidlaw, Farrell, Madigan, <cough> Paddy Wallace


Edit, too slow - TJ beat me to it

welshboii15 wrote:After watching warren gatlands interview on rugby club he's said to be taking 2 10s and a player that can play there and a number of other positions so does this mean James Hook is going

Madigan and Sexton can also play 10 and other positions. Sexton centre and Madigan fullback.

Biggar, Hook and perm any other one

I heard hes been putting solid performances in France. He's one them players that's first on the match day team but leaves you not sure where to play him, but gatland said a number of English players ain't quite ready, and Barnes greenwood pointed out players like Farrell robshaw and parling maybe missing out because of that.

Plus hook offers more than Laidlaw and Farrell by being able to play 10,12,13 and 15 so in being able to play alot more positions puts them slightly a head of them on the biases of a utility back

Hook's been ok in France, done some good things but also has shown a bit of inexperience at times for Perp, although I havn't watched him regularly enough.

He was good last weekend though.

He's on the windup, it will be Farrell, Wilko and Sexton.

Im starting to doubt Farrell personally but there's going be 2 10s and a player than can play a number of positions

If it's two tens and a more versatile player then I'd suggest we're looking at:

Sexton
1 of Farrell, Biggar and Wilkinson
1 of Laidlaw and Hook

For me Farrell doesn't fall into the utility player as his best position by far is FH - he only plays centre to accommodate Hodgson (who I'm surprised isn't mentioned more if Wilko is). Out of Laidlaw and Hook I'd take Hook as a utility player as I simply wouldn't trust Laidlaws defence at 10 in a Lions series.

I still find it surprising that so many people seem to be sure that Farrell is going. I think Gatland's "perhaps not quite ready" comments in that interview are particularly applicable to Farrell. He was dead-eyed in his kicking from tee - right up until the big occasion in Cardiff - added to which he clearly lost his temper in a couple of the 6N matches. Added to which, a lot of English fans were questioning what he really brings to the table other than his kicking before that.
Sexton will obviously be going - but I think Biggar may be ahead of Farrell. Outside Wales he's not well known, but Gatland has seen the development arc Biggar has gone on - and his familiarity may be one of those 50/50 calls where Gatland's Wales connection may swing the decision (I can't help feeling there will be a few of these).
Hook is always a possibility, but I think his lack of recent international match time clearly goes against him.

There's two out and out 10s going by the sounds so sexton is one and id like the other to be wilko, I think its going come down to Farrell and biggar and I don't see what Farrell did better than biggar apart from kicking so I think its between them to and Hook to be the utility gatland spoke about

welshboii15 wrote:There's two out and out 10s going by the sounds so sexton is one and id like the other to be wilko, I think its going come down to Farrell and biggar and I don't see what Farrell did better than biggar apart from kicking so I think its between them to and Hook to be the utility gatland spoke about

.......and when you got 1/2 penny you got a kicker so Biggar it is then:)

Much rather hook than Farrell, Farrell lacks experience.

Don't get me wrong I think Farrell is talent but he's just not what id play at 10

marcushlaberstram I do wonder if you have ever watched rugby other than those involving Wales.

Farrell has the added advantage of continually testing himself against the best fly halves in Europe in the HC.

Biggar did have a good 6 nations but can't write off his shambolic lows like the humiliating draw with Fiji and the loss to Samoa.

Not exactly done well in the HC either. Not good enough when it matters.

Trust the Welsh to overrate yet another of their players.

maestegmafia lacks experience? Oh and Biggar doesn't?

Reading between the lines in a lot of Gatlands interviews it would appear that he might favour experience over form and therefore go for Wilko and Sexton etc. Who knows though as Gatland has never been afraid of throwing younger guys into the mix too.

Come on guys Farrell's auld boy is on the selection panel! He'll be the first name on the list!

GunsGerms wrote:Reading between the lines in a lot of Gatlands interviews it would appear that he might favour experience over form and therefore go for Wilko and Sexton etc. Who knows though as Gatland has never been afraid of throwing younger guys into the mix too.

Farrell vs Wilkinson in the HC could be important for their prospects.

beshocked wrote:marcushlaberstram I do wonder if you have ever watched rugby other than those involving Wales.

Farrell has the added advantage of continually testing himself against the best fly halves in Europe in the HC.

Biggar did have a good 6 nations but can't write off his shambolic lows like the humiliating draw with Fiji and the loss to Samoa.

Not exactly done well in the HC either. Not good enough when it matters.

Trust the Welsh to overrate yet another of their players.

maestegmafia lacks experience? Oh and Biggar doesn't?

Part of a team that destroyed the English and did very little wrong at all, oh and won the 6 Nations Championship ... so pretty damned good when it matters me thinks

I understand why people don't want biggar and Farrell but its down to them to prove doubters wrong

rodders wrote:Come on guys Farrell's auld boy is on the selection panel! He'll be the first name on the list!

Without doubt and probably fair enough too. Whoever is captain will have some say as well.

O'Connell managed to get Earls, Quinlan and O'Leary on the squad last time round.

Biggar is an excellent player no doubt about that. There are other good options too though so if he was to miss out it wouldnt be because he isnt good enough.

Wilko goes over every 10 in my eyes but if he don't then the other 3 ain't bad choices I just have who id take and im sure others do to so who knows

rainbow-warrior wrote:

beshocked wrote:marcushlaberstram I do wonder if you have ever watched rugby other than those involving Wales.

Farrell has the added advantage of continually testing himself against the best fly halves in Europe in the HC.

Biggar did have a good 6 nations but can't write off his shambolic lows like the humiliating draw with Fiji and the loss to Samoa.

Not exactly done well in the HC either. Not good enough when it matters.

Trust the Welsh to overrate yet another of their players.

maestegmafia lacks experience? Oh and Biggar doesn't?

Part of a team that destroyed the English and did very little wrong at all, oh and won the 6 Nations Championship ... so pretty damned good when it matters me thinks

As long as we beat the English mantra. Sigh. That's the problem with Wales. You need to aim a bit higher than England. If you change your attitude you'll stand a better chance vs the SH sides.

As I have said a few times unfortunately for Biggar he doesn't have many more opportunities to prove himself before Lions selection.

Wilkinson and Farrell have a HC semi to look forward to.

Perhaps I don't see the hype surrounding Biggar because I am not Welsh. It's the same reason why I can't see the hype for Hook.

For what it's worth I believe Biggar has a better chance than Hook and could make it as 3rd choice.

beshocked wrote:marcushlaberstram I do wonder if you have ever watched rugby other than those involving Wales.

Farrell has the added advantage of continually testing himself against the best fly halves in Europe in the HC.

Biggar did have a good 6 nations but can't write off his shambolic lows like the humiliating draw with Fiji and the loss to Samoa.

Not exactly done well in the HC either. Not good enough when it matters.

Trust the Welsh to overrate yet another of their players.

maestegmafia lacks experience? Oh and Biggar doesn't?

Big far has had at least a couple more seasons regional experience than Farrell, and has won big games like the last in the six nations.

Over rated? I didn't used to like Biggar at all but he has turned his game around in the last 18 months and looks one of the best around now.

Farrell doesn't, great goal kicker but not a great flyhalf by any measure. Charlie Hodgaon is still your better flyhalf at Saracens.

Your comment regarding your opinion on the welsh was a bit ridiculous. Made your point seem little more than petty bickering. There was no need to say what you did, especially as it wasn't Biggar I was talking about.

Hook as I said has bags more experience in all the positions he covers than Farrell does.

That is our problem in Wales we only focus on the English but that's because they were number 1 in world and our rivals, but no offense to the English we kind of had the beating of them over past couple seasons so I do think we need start focusing on Australia and south Africa more. Farrell could take the other 10 spot but I still think hook is the 1 no one is considering and could steal the chance because is he still in the amlin

beshocked wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

beshocked wrote:marcushlaberstram I do wonder if you have ever watched rugby other than those involving Wales.

Farrell has the added advantage of continually testing himself against the best fly halves in Europe in the HC.

Biggar did have a good 6 nations but can't write off his shambolic lows like the humiliating draw with Fiji and the loss to Samoa.

Not exactly done well in the HC either. Not good enough when it matters.

Trust the Welsh to overrate yet another of their players.

maestegmafia lacks experience? Oh and Biggar doesn't?

Part of a team that destroyed the English and did very little wrong at all, oh and won the 6 Nations Championship ... so pretty damned good when it matters me thinks

As long as we beat the English mantra. Sigh. That's the problem with Wales. You need to aim a bit higher than England. If you change your attitude you'll stand a better chance vs the SH sides.

As I have said a few times unfortunately for Biggar he doesn't have many more opportunities to prove himself before Lions selection.

Wilkinson and Farrell have a HC semi to look forward to.

Perhaps I don't see the hype surrounding Biggar because I am not Welsh. It's the same reason why I can't see the hype for Hook.

For what it's worth I believe Biggar has a better chance than Hook and could make it as 3rd choice.

I see France and Ireland as bigger scalps than England for the past few seasons. England have proved to be pretty standard since 2003 hardly worth the hype in all honesty. Biggar has improved very well and will be the test 10 with Phillips at 9 a perfect starting pair. As stated before Gatland will not make the same mistake as Henry and certainly not like Wooden Head in 2005. Wales / Ireland will make up the vast majority of the Test Lions..Engalnd mid week specials.

Gotta love the Anglo Welsh jibes.

maestegmafia you are correct. Biggar has more regional experience than Farrell. This is because Farrell plays for a club.

Biggar unfortunately doesn't have much experience at winning matches in the HC or vs the SH sides including Fiji and Samoa. Australia are a SH side.

Farrell has won big games in the HC,internationally and in the AP.

If Charlie Hodgson is so good as you say then why is it Farrell that is now picked for the biggest matches?

About the Welsh it's true though. You love beating the English more than anyone else. I agree you need to start focussing on Australia and South Africa and NZ.

Plus remember Farrell has done something no Welsh no 10 has done for over 50 years - beat the All Backs.

Hook is a jack of all trades - master of none. The Amlin is a minor competition compared to the HC. Hook also is being kept out of the Welsh lineup so should be considered?

rainbow warrior if you pack the side solely with Irish and Welsh players then the Lions will lose. Sounds like you do want to make the same mistake Clive did.

The ospreys have won hover amount of leagues and Dan biggar has been key to that. Well sexton has very little games to prove then one six nations game and he's in amlin so looks like the lions got pick between wilko and farrell

To be fair to Biggar he has shown he is good at Pro12 level. In my opinion I feel like he has a lot more to prove in the HC and international level.

I agree Sexton hasn't really proved himself this season but he is the most experienced of Sexton,Biggar and Farrell.

That's why sexton goes because he's proven he's the best 10 apart from wilko, but big match day experience has to go to biggar for the second spot IMO. He shows great calmness in the big games he's played, two league titles and and the 6 nations apart from Ireland game, plus rabo form over the past 3 seasons has been out standing. But I still think Hook is the one to keep an eye on

welshboii15 wrote:That's why sexton goes because he's proven he's the best 10 apart from wilko, but big match day experience has to go to biggar for the second spot IMO. He shows great calmness in the big games he's played, two league titles and and the 6 nations apart from Ireland game, plus rabo form over the past 3 seasons has been out standing. But I still think Hook is the one to keep an eye on

I will concede that Biggar has more experience losing/not winning matches that his side start as favourites in. Does that count as big match experience?

Losing to Treviso once and drawing with them, losing to Samoa, drawing with Fiji, losing Osprey's home record in the HC (he personally gifted Sarries a chargedown try). Failing to make an impact in the HC - this is because Biggar has lacked the bottle.

If I was going to say who is the bigger choker at the higher levels then of course the award goes to Biggar.

I wouldn't say Farrell is a choker because most of his losses have been against tough sides - generally away from home. Not matches that his side are favourites for.

beshocked wrote:To be fair to Biggar he has shown he is good at Pro12 level. In my opinion I feel like he has a lot more to prove in the HC and international level.

I agree Sexton hasn't really proved himself this season but he is the most experienced of Sexton,Biggar and Farrell.

Hook has more experience than the lot of them and can play various positions along the back line, and he has a few grand slams and played very well for the lions before being taken out if you are talking about experience.

glamorganalun wrote:

beshocked wrote:To be fair to Biggar he has shown he is good at Pro12 level. In my opinion I feel like he has a lot more to prove in the HC and international level.

I agree Sexton hasn't really proved himself this season but he is the most experienced of Sexton,Biggar and Farrell.

Hook has more experience than the lot of them and can play various positions along the back line, and he has a few grand slams and played very well for the lions before being taken out if you are talking about experience.

Experience coming off the bench doesnt count for much. I wonder how many matches Hook has actually started at 10 for Wales. Anyone know?

As I said before Hook is a jack of all trades. He's done alright for Wales but he's far too inconsistent and unreliable.

Yes he has the experience but he's never been good enough to nail down a spot. Have Wales really missed his presence in the starting line up? Of course not.

Worse 10 than Biggar. Worse 12 than Roberts. Worse 15 than Halfpenny. That's just Wales.

I am perhaps being overly harsh on Biggar - he did have a good 6 nations. I am just not entirely convinced.

Perhaps he does deserve that 3rd 10 slot.

Biggar is under rated the guy has been stand out player for ospreys.
As Jonathan Davies said at start of 6 nations you can't judge him on his past starts for wales being chucked in on a Friday night against Fiji in a chucked together team. He's been given a run in welsh team he's become a solid part of it. Gets charged down against Ireland then pops up with inch perfect kick against France. Where Farrell went from a 10 full of conference after beating new Zealand to trying pick fights all time and then miss firing against wales.

But after all this Hook is the going be the surprise package

Beshocked - I think you may be holding Biggar a little too responsible for the Ospreys/Wales losses in question. I think Farrell is a very good player, but I think he showed a surprising lack of composure during some of the 6N (I for one, had thought that he was one of those unflappable Wilkinson-esque figures until then), which may count against him.
Biggar has now been first choice at the Ospreys for a good few years and hasn't had an easy time of it (he hasn't exactly been a popular figure through a lot of that time). Yes, he's been involved in some moral-sapping losses, but he's showed steady progress and development, and grown in character - especially during the last couple of years, and he hasn't done a lot wrong this season. I think Biggar/Farrell is a very close call, and it doesn't particularly bother me which of the two are picked (maybe they both will be!) - but I think after the 6N, I can't help feeling Biggar will have the edge in Gatland's mind - especially as he'll be very familiar with Biggar. That said, Farrell still has a few games including a H-Cup semi (at least!) to stake his claim, which works in his favour (that and the fact his dad is one of the Lions coaches . However, do bear in mind that one of Gatland's first points in his recent interview was that he still doesn't see H-Cup as being equal to international standard.

I don't see why Biggar is getting criticism for any of the Wales results mentioned.

Against Fiji, he was thrown into a completely experimental team, including players in dreadful form like Deiniol Jones, Huw Bennet and Ryan Jones at the time.

Against Samoa, Wales were ahead 13 - 7 when he departed, the game was lost with Priestland at 10.

He definitely has the metal for big games, as he's shown by taking two league titles from under Leinsters nose at the RDS. Leinster don't take finals lightly no matter what competition it's in.

This six nations also showed that he has more to his game than Farrell, one look at the stats shows that he challenged the line more and beat more defenders, something he came under criticism for not doing enough in his early career.

welshboi15 it was the whole England side that did that. Not just Farrell. Flood misfired vs Italy.

Coming into the game vs Wales, England were not in great form.

Farrell has been getting a lot of unfair criticism in my opinion. You would think it was solely Farrell who was at fault for the loss to Wales.

Wales away is not an easy fixture.

England lost one game in the 6 nations this season. 4/5 is still pretty good.

Farrell has won a lot of matches when starting for England at fly half.


I really hope Hook is not picked.

Marcushalberstram perhaps I am but if people are happy to criticise Farrell for performances when it was the team collectively not performing then Biggar should get the flack too.


Talking about Saint Johnny he had a shocking 2011 RWC but people seem to blot that out of their memory banks.

We'll have to agree to disagree then - you prefer Biggar. I prefer Farrell. If both are picked with Sexton that would be fine though.

That seems to reduce Biggar's chances.

I think it'll be Sexton and Farrell + multi tasker. Hooks chances don't look to bad if that's how it's gonna be done.

Wilko has about as much chance as ROG lads.

Your right it is unfair to to put all Blame on Farrell the guy is a machine but I personally don't think he helped the side by missing the kicks normally ones he would slot eyes shut. As i said earlier in the post i think the guy has talent i just personally think biggar has done that bit more.

There's only two 10s going and one utility back this why back to OP i think its Hook going makes sense

welshboi I agree with that. He didn't help his side but unfortunately he didn't get much support either.

Has Leigh Halfpenny ever played fly half? Perhaps he is referring to him?

I really hope Gatland doesn't mean Hook is going.

TRUE alot of ball he had was on back foot so I guess it knocks his conference.
I can't say he has played 10 I have no idea but that's a big call for a test match.

I like Hook then again I like Henson and that's a known fact that gatland loves Henson

There are a number of players who can play 10 and centre and vice versa

Matt Scott is a very useful 10 and he has played 13
Scott Williams has played 10 for Wales
Laidlaw can play 10 and 9

etc etc

But Hook can play 10, 12, 13, 15........ he will never be in the top two or three of any of them but he is most useful to cover them all

I wouldn't take him though

Scott Williams has played 10 for Wales :O

But none of the ones named are in top 3 in their positions iver so its equal. I think given a chance hook is better than them all

I definitely prefer Farrell ahead of Biggar.

What exactly did Biggar do during the 6 Nations that was so impressive?

reallybored wrote:I definitely prefer Farrell ahead of Biggar.

What exactly did Biggar do during the 6 Nations that was so impressive?

He won it.