England call up Thomas Waldrom

by BATH_BTGOG Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:30 pm

Leicester's Thomas Waldrom is to fly out to New Zealand as World Cup cover for England number eight Nick Easter.

England manager Martin Johnson said: "Nick Easter is still suffering from a sore back so we will be bringing Thomas out as temporary cover.

"We've obviously spoken to Leicester and Thomas will be flying later today."

England have still to name a replacement for injured prop Andrew Sheridan, who was ruled out with a shoulder injury last week.

Bad news for the Tigers, should have gone anyway IMO

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:33 pm

Does "temporary cover" mean he's not a formal replacement as yet?

Bearing in mind that a formal replacement isn't allowed to play for 48 hours after being called up, and the injured player is then out for the tournament.

by BATH_BTGOG Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:36 pm

He won't be part of the squad, I guess if Easter gets better then Waldrom will be on the next flight back to Leicester

by Portnoy Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm

He should never be anywhere near the England squad. A previously unknown English grandma does not make him English.

Not right. Stinks in fact.

by doctor_grey Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:53 pm

Portnoy wrote:He should never be anywhere near the England squad. A previously unknown English grandma does not make him English.

Not right. Stinks in fact.

Yes, indeed. Absolutely agree. No other words needed.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:57 pm

Chuffing heck. Sad

by screamingaddabs Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:59 pm

Let's not turn this into a international qualification debate, if people want to debate it then they can on the 1000s of other threads that cover this already.

I do find it odd though that he has been called up and yet there has been no mention of the replacement for Sheridan.

I hope Easter recovers and Waldrom is not needed, but then I think Easter is a good player and (importantly) offers something Haskell doesn't, whereas Waldrom is just another version of Haskell.

EDIT - Also, Leicester need some players left or we'll continue to be cr@p before the end of the world cup!

by Rava Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:01 pm

Portnoy wrote:He should never be anywhere near the England squad. A previously unknown English grandma does not make him English.

Not right. Stinks in fact.

I agree 100% plus after watching Saturdays game he looks well short of International class.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:03 pm

It may just be for training. They dont have enough backrow players currently. Then if Easters injury doenst lkook like getting better he cbecomes a formal replacement.

The Sheridan replacement situation is an odd one.

Sucks for Tigers, they have been decimated by the world cup. Waldrom was signed because he wouldnt be at the world cup, and noone couldve expected Tuilagi to be here 12 month ago.

by The WarLord Mashaka Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:12 pm

So he has been flow out as a precaution and we can still keep Easter and use him as Sheridan's replacement. Though I doubt with the way Haskell is playing he would get much game time….still why could it not have been Narraway

by Portnoy Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:17 pm

screamingaddabs wrote:Let's not turn this into a international qualification debate, if people want to debate it then they can on the 1000s of other threads that cover this already.

I do find it odd though that he has been called up and yet there has been no mention of the replacement for Sheridan.

I hope Easter recovers and Waldrom is not needed, but then I think Easter is a good player and (importantly) offers something Haskell doesn't, whereas Waldrom is just another version of Haskell.

EDIT - Also, Leicester need some players left or we'll continue to be cr@p before the end of the world cup!

As both an England and Tigers' fan. I can't see any up-side to this situation.

I imagine that had Tom gone to (say) Exeter, he wouldn't be on the English radar.

But I don't like the granny system - and I'll leave that point aside permanently in this debate.

by doctor_grey Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:17 pm

screamingaddabs,
The problem with Waldrom is that he is the exact centre point of any residency debate and can never be separated from it. If he never plays for England, or if he earns 50 caps, his name will always be looked at in this context.

by offload Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:18 pm

I don't normally have any sympathy for anything to do with the Tigers - but on this they should feel pretty upset. I don't understand the rules here but does this mean that he officially replaces Sheridan rather than easter?

by beshocked Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:20 pm

Have to feel a little sorry for Leicester. Waldrom is being flown out to not even benchwarm!

The important thing is if Waldrom isn't needed by England will he feature in the Leicester vs Saracens crunch game?

Also what will the likely depleted Tigers side look like?

by screamingaddabs Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:20 pm

doctor_grey wrote:screamingaddabs,
The problem with Waldrom is that he is the exact centre point of any residency debate and can never be separated from it. If he never plays for England, or if he earns 50 caps, his name will always be looked at in this context.

Yeah, I know, I just find it annoying as we will end up with the same debate that always happens. But then I'm not the king of the message boards so if people want to discuss it, go for it.

Personally I think the bigger talking point is the fact he's been called up and yet there is no replacement for Sheridan yet. That's just really odd. At first I thought maybe MJ just didn't want new faces spoiling the dynamic or something, but now I just can't work out why he hasn't replaced Sheridan. Unless he has and no one sent me the memo...

by Bullsbok Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:21 pm

England at it again Yahoo

Wasnt Waldrom playing for the Saders just last year? damn then again they'll save money on hotel rooms since he can sleep at his parents house Very Happy

by Portnoy Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:21 pm

offload wrote:I don't normally have any sympathy for anything to do with the Tigers - but on this they should feel pretty upset. I don't understand the rules here but does this mean that he officially replaces Sheridan rather than easter?

He can and may - but not necessarily will.

by screamingaddabs Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:23 pm

beshocked wrote:Have to feel a little sorry for Leicester. Waldrom is being flown out to not even benchwarm!

The important thing is if Waldrom isn't needed by England will he feature in the Leicester vs Saracens crunch game?

Also what will the likely depleted Tigers side look like?

Good question, and especially as I don't think he is part of the EPS (correct me if I'm wrong) will Leicester be all that happy about having a player taken to basically hold a tackle shield. Hell, Johnson could just hold the tackle shield! Is it written somewhere that if England want a player to fly around the world for no reason the clubs have to make him do so?

by Great White Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:23 pm

Jordan Crane must be about ready to return from injury? That would alleviate the problem of Waldrom being at the WC.

by Effervescing Elephant Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:24 pm

Portnoy wrote:He should never be anywhere near the England squad. A previously unknown English grandma does not make him English.

Not right. Stinks in fact.

Could. Not. Agree. More.

by Portnoy Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:25 pm

beshocked wrote:Have to feel a little sorry for Leicester. Waldrom is being flown out to not even benchwarm!

The important thing is if Waldrom isn't needed by England will he feature in the Leicester vs Saracens crunch game?

Also what will the likely depleted Tigers side look like?

Denuded Beshocked. Denuded.

by Great White Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:26 pm

Carpe Diem wrote:
Portnoy wrote:He should never be anywhere near the England squad. A previously unknown English grandma does not make him English.

Not right. Stinks in fact.

Could. Not. Agree. More.

Bore. Off.

by Cymroglan Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:27 pm

My agent came round and he brought the pamphlet with the International Rugby Board's rules regarding qualifying after residency. My wife was going through the criteria. She saw the line about being able to qualify immediately if one of your grandparents was born in the respective country. I remembered reading somewhere that my grandmother was English. I rang up my mum in New Zealand, where it was four o'clock in the morning. I apologised for waking her up and asked if nana was born in England. She said yes, and that she also had the birth certificate to prove it.[

I would have expected somebody with very limited knowledge of the game to have known that....Had they not heard of Grannygate it must have made the papers in New Zealand.

by Portnoy Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:27 pm

Great White wrote:Jordan Crane must be about ready to return from injury? That would alleviate the problem of Waldrom being at the WC.

Jordan is out for the season.

by screamingaddabs Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:28 pm

Great White wrote:Jordan Crane must be about ready to return from injury? That would alleviate the problem of Waldrom being at the WC.

Crane is out for the season I think

by beshocked Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:28 pm

Waldrom was part of the initial squad first picked by Martin Johnson. Not sure if that counts as EPS or not.

Screamingaddabs I agree it's really unfair.

Great White Jordan Crane is out for the whole season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14629274.stm

by bathmad Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:29 pm

Bullsbok wrote:England at it again Wasnt Waldrom playing for the Saders just last year? damn then again they'll save money on hotel rooms since he can sleep at his parents house

by G2 Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:29 pm

I can't see the point of flying to the other side of the world and then not using him as a replacement if for example Easter needs replacing.

Although knowing the how the RFU work I wouldn't be surprised if they flew hm back to England and then flew someone else out, after all we've got money to burn haven't we?

by TheGreyGhost Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:29 pm

Call up the Kiwis!

Hilarious.

Just Hilarious.

England are a complete laughing stock.

by Great White Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:31 pm

Only in your tiny mind.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:32 pm

TheGreyGhost wrote:

Call up the Kiwis!

Hilarious.

Just Hilarious.

England are a complete laughing stock.

Your lot have been calling up New Zealanders for years....

by beshocked Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:34 pm

Why don't they just fly out Waldrom out if Easter's injury doesn't clear up? No point flying the poor bloke only to find out Easter's back pain has disappeared.

Portnoy a little more specific of what your potential team would be is appreciated.

Is Matthew Tait going to have his much anticipated debut after pulling out of pretty much every game so far?

by screamingaddabs Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:37 pm

ELIGIBILITY THREAD

Try the above to hear the same tired old arguments. I mean it was only two months ago eh?

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:40 pm

Waldrom isnt in the EPS, Im not even sure there is one at the minute.

He certainly hasnbt even been in it, he was called into the training squad shortly after discovering hes qualified, and then released without playing a game. Theres nothing LEicester could have done in terms of planning too ensure he had any kind of cover in the squad ( remember the salary cap?)
Although you could argue that he was bought partly as cover incase Crane was called up Crane is of course injured.

The whole point of the EPS was to give sides adequate chance to prepare and juggle contracts on the underatanding that players would miss a quarter of the season, more so in a world cup year.
Given the complexities of judgemenst that have to made in balancing a squad and deciding who does and who doesnt get a contract its not exactly idela to find out that a well payed player is suddenly going to go missing mid season when only 6 months ago you didnt even have an inkling that he could possibly be playing international rugby of any kind.
Im not even sure they will get the extra leeway in the cap for him being called up that is made for the world cup period ( not that they can find a temporary replacement of worth at this short notice) since he isnt formaly in the squad.

Its not just Waldrom though, its the sheer volume of players they are missing.

by screamingaddabs Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:41 pm

beshocked wrote:Why don't they just fly out Waldrom out if Easter's injury doesn't clear up? No point flying the poor bloke only to find out Easter's back pain has disappeared.

Portnoy a little more specific of what your potential team would be is appreciated.

Is Matthew Tait going to have his much anticipated debut after pulling out of pretty much every game so far?

I really want Tait to start one soon, I've always been a big fan.

I think your point about flying him out is spot on. Of course there is a wait on when he can play (48 hours after arriving), but given that Haskell is still in his words "DOMINATING*" I don't think that's a problem.

*Quote may be made up based on a humourous caricature of James Haskell

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:41 pm

beshocked wrote:Is Matthew Tait going to have his much anticipated debut after pulling out of pretty much every game so far?

Quite possibly at number 8

by Guest Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:41 pm

Let's try and keep points constructive here please everyone, and not descend into irritating comments aimed to wind up which result in childish comebacks. It's tiresome for the mod team to deal with and your fellow posters to read. Cut it out please. Thanks.

by Portnoy Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:43 pm

screamingaddabs wrote:ELIGIBILITY THREAD

Try the above to hear the same tired old arguments. I mean it was only two months ago eh?

And a very fine post that was. I can only but recommend it Wink

by Portnoy Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:49 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:Let's try and keep points constructive here please everyone, and not descend into irritating comments aimed to wind up which result in childish comebacks. It's tiresome for the mod team to deal with and your fellow posters to read. Cut it out please. Thanks.

Not sure the posts had swayed that far dreamer. Relatively in context I thought and fairly self-centring.

Where were you in the 'England: 2007 RWC revisited' earlier? It got taken so far off track I had to ask for it to be merged with another.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:54 pm

Beshocked,

Lord knows who we will be playing at tight head, as White and Brookes both went off injured. Jules may be fit - but will not last the whole game, Brookes injury looked serious.

Tait was not selected for last week, but Matt smith who was dropped out on teh day. Skivington went off injured.

Team will probably be something like:

Stankovich
Chuter
White
Slater
Kitchener
Mafi
Woods
Salvi
Grindall (maybe Young will start)
Ford (fear Staunton will start)
Smith (if injured maybe Forsyth)
Allen
36
Morris (Unless Tait is fit)
Hamilton

We will probably have two loosies on the bench - Holford and Bucknell(?). Bobo may have to play tighthead if Jules is not fit. Chuter is a shadow of his former self. Either way I am sure Jamie George will enjoy his first appearance at Welford Road with our depleted front row options.

Players potentially missing as follows:
Ayerza, Cole, Castro, White, Brookes, Parling, Deacon, Skivington, Croft, Newby, Crane, Waldrom, Youngs, Flood, Manu, Tait, Agulla, Allesana, Murphy

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:00 pm

LondonTiger wrote:

Players potentially missing as follows:
Ayerza, Cole, Castro, White, Brookes, Parling, Deacon, Skivington, Croft, Newby, Crane, Waldrom, Youngs, Flood, Manu, Tait, Agulla, Allesana, Murphy

Its just as well we dont have any decent hooker or they would be injured/called up too.

by doctor_grey Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:02 pm

Yeah, I know, I just find it annoying as we will end up with the same debate that always happens. But then I'm not the king of the message boards so if people want to discuss it, go for it.

Personally I think the bigger talking point is the fact he's been called up and yet there is no replacement for Sheridan yet. That's just really odd. At first I thought maybe MJ just didn't want new faces spoiling the dynamic or something, but now I just can't work out why he hasn't replaced Sheridan. Unless he has and no one sent me the memo...[/quote]Completely agree. What's the plan and what are the next steps which MJ has in mind?

Good point on your part to keep the debate off the residency issue and on the players.

by TheGreyGhost Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:03 pm

Good point on your part to keep the debate off the residency issue and on the players.

And don't mention the war....

by Guest Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:05 pm

Portnoy wrote:
rugbydreamer wrote:Let's try and keep points constructive here please everyone, and not descend into irritating comments aimed to wind up which result in childish comebacks. It's tiresome for the mod team to deal with and your fellow posters to read. Cut it out please. Thanks.

Not sure the posts had swayed that far dreamer. Relatively in context I thought and fairly self-centring.

Where were you in the 'England: 2007 RWC revisited' earlier? It got taken so far off track I had to ask for it to be merged with another.

I was working Portnoy.

And I'd had a report in hence the warning. I agree though apart from a couple of posters, this thread has been absolutely fine.

by Great White Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:06 pm

MJ doesn't have to replace like for like, so an out-and-out prop isn't required. Arguably, with 5 props, MJ doesn't need to replace Sheridan, losing Sheridan probably wont cause too many headaches because (and this is just my opinion) Sheridan was over-rated and injury prone.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:15 pm

Great White wrote:MJ doesn't have to replace like for like, so an out-and-out prop isn't required. Arguably, with 5 props, MJ doesn't need to replace Sheridan, losing Sheridan probably wont cause too many headaches because (and this is just my opinion) Sheridan was over-rated and injury prone.

Yes but why not replace him with an ulike that sthe point?
If there are sudden injuries its not idea to have to fly someone across the world with a 48 hour mimum before they are able to play and no training with the squad. I mean why not take Stanko off Leicester just to make sure they cant field a proper side in the next game (although im not sure he lined in new zealand long enough to qualify for england)

by wasps Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:17 pm

Sheridan's replacement is presumably on hold while we wait and see if we need anyone anywhere else.
It's currently a free replacement for us.

As for Waldrom, he's surely been called up to train and learn the moves, just in case Easter doesn't recover.

From Englands perspective it makes sense.
He was in the original training squad, so is presumably seen as 'next in line', plus they get someone out there in case they need them, whilst not actually having to send Easter back just yet.

However, it totally sucks from Leicester's perspective.

With Moody potentially being a bit 'iffy' too, it may have been time to call up someone that could cover both 8 and 7... maybe Dowson or someone like that.

Back row is definitely a bit light at the moment, but as we have a few 'free' replacements (i.e. Sheridan and potentially Easter / Moody) then there's nothing too worry about really.

At least the fact that he is totally depleting the Leicester squad may get rid of all the conspiracy theories about him loving Leicester so much that he wouldn't want to hurt their chances this season.

by Geordie Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:19 pm

"(and this is just my opinion) Sheridan was over-rated and injury prone.."

Its one i happen to agree with...

Surely bringing Narraway into the squad is far more productive, or Guest etc.

by beshocked Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:22 pm

Wow LondonTiger. 5 props out! Still looks like a suprisingly decent frontrow.

19 players!

True about Jamie George. I really rate him. Good all rounder in my opinion. Better in the scrum than Brits in my opinion.

I am still nervous as an underpowered Leicester side is still strong.

It's the backline where the most damage to your side is in my opinion.

Waldrom is a big loss for you too.

What does your bench look like?

Peter seabiscuit don't say that! If Hartley or Thompson is injured Chuter will be called up.

by prop_lyd Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:24 pm

Geordie: Narraway's been suffering from an injury recently so isn't fully fit.

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