Thoughts on last night's results?

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First off I will point out that I wasn't able to catch the fights last night, but nonetheless after catching the results I'm interested in what peoples thoughts are on a couple of things.

Firstly, how does Martinez's stoppage of the previously undefeated Dzinziruk affect his standing in the pound-for-pound rankings? His opponent had been fancied by some to give Maravilla a stern test, and had some fans and pundits stating their belief that Martinez couldn't take Dzinziruk lightly. True, Dzinziruk was moving up from 154, but as Martinez himself is no career middleweight I don't think that should be particularly relevant. Instead of being pushed to the wire though, Martinez dropped his opponent several times on the way to the stoppage.

Secondly, is Cotto genuinely on the up-and-up since his loss to a Filipino fighter whose name escapes me, or is he being matched carefully by uncle Bob in order to validate a rematch to the aforementioned one-sided loss, among other possible match-ups? Since embarking on his second comeback Cotto has first beaten Yuri Foreman, who last night lost his second consecutive fight and was considered to be a weak champion prior to his loss to Cotto-he'd not fought anyone at the top level, and with a low KO percentage was (rightly so) not expected to trouble Cotto unduly.

Last night's fight against Mayorga was somewhat hyped as can be expected, and the hype was added to by Mayorga's carnival antics, but if we look past the melodrama Mayorga's record going into the fight was average at best. He'd gone 3-3 in his last six fights, having lost against the better names and having fought only six times in as many years. Add to these factors Mayorga's age and we have an opponent Cotto was expected to beat.

My question is this: is Cotto genuinely back in the saddle and returned from the brink, or is he merely damaged goods being carefully packaged in order to fool the less discerning members of the public? Personally I feel it's a case of the latter, as Mr Arum continues to fleece the fans still more, but what do you think?

D4: Obviously Manny has been a much better champion at welter and other weights than light-middle but he is a champion in both.
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Great champion at welter? To my knowledge he won the title at a catchweight against Cotto, and has defended once, against clottey. You regard that as a great champion?

Oscar was a far more legit title win for floyd at 154 than marg was for manny, firstly because Oscar was the champion and secondly because no catchweight was imposed upon him. Mayweather never defended the title so he loses points for that, but a more legit claim than mannys nonetheless.

Oscar was ranked highly by his own magazine - but he wasn't number 1. He retired - then came out of retirement to fight the weakest paper champ at LMW.

But at least Floyd did fight at the LMW limit for his title.

I'm not sure that Manny should be criticised for fighting Marg for the LMW title - surely it should be the WBC board?

oxring wrote:Oscar was ranked highly by his own magazine - but he wasn't number 1. He retired - then came out of retirement to fight the weakest paper champ at LMW.

But at least Floyd did fight at the LMW limit for his title.

I'm not sure that Manny should be criticised for fighting Marg for the LMW title - surely it should be the WBC board?

The Floyd/Oscar was huge business and generated huge money and top 3 PPV buys in history. Both fighters had name recognition and were considered prime. Marg was well name value in terms of notoriety. Floyd/Oscar was a pick em fight. Everyone knew the outcome of the Marg/Pac fight.

well well well, as usual, "last nights results" ends up being a discussion about pac/fmj.. :sleep:

thought cotto did well against a... nobody really, fairly hard puncher. cotto took th punches well, but i'd like to see him retire after margarito rematch. he's said himself he'l be retiring soon. Maybe a cotto/martinez to cash out?

Martinez, done the job against a decent undefeated 154 champ moving up. I can't really see who he can fight next.. maybe wait for cotto/marg. dare i say pwill/martinez III ?

Why has a thread about the two fights from last night become tainted with the stench of unrequited man-love for a certain Filipino? Back ON topic, Cotto is simply being nurtured to best suit Arum's needs, and will continue to be so until he's needed as a sacrifice to bloaters a paper legacy, and Martinez is looking like the guy to avoid at 160 and below. Why shouldn't he call out the top P4P guys? If they want to prove themselves, they need to take on valid challenges, and Martinez is much more valid than a still questionable Cotto.

Sweet pea, I don't think we can hold the fact that Dzinziruk was moving up against Martinez-he's not long moved up himself. It's a valid point to a degree, but a little too nit-picky.

I thought Martinez was fantastic last night. Dzinziruk, was not necessarily the biggest payday, but boxing-wise it was a big gamble and it paid off. Dzinziruk's 'piston-like' jab had been talked about as his big weapon before the fight, but Martinez out-jabbed him and consistently followed through with his game plan.

His accuracy all fight was impressive, but I found his killer instinct to finish Dzinziruk off absolutely devastating.

Being the Ring's champ at Middle and also their fighter of the year, whether you like it or not, will thrust you into the limelight. I think Martinez has handled his ascent with remarkable cool and maturity. In the days where politics outside of the ring is almost outweighing the in-ring action, it is refreshing to have a fighter like Sergio Martinez near the top of the pile.

Marge has competed for a LMW title previously and his last fight before Pacquiao was at LMW. Plenty of fighters move up from lower weight divisions and are ranked highly, Marge is top 5 now. At welterweight, Marge is a 3 time world champ, so he's paid his dues in boxing. If there was a vacant title at LHW and Froch and Ward competed for it, I doubt many would complain.

Martinez has just dumped two of the biggest names at MW (plus held two titles), so he can still lose a few lbs. Being a LMW champ is one thing, needing to face every MW who could possibly make LMW is another. How would Mayweather fair against Martinez or Pavlik. Would Mayweather defeat Winky Wright and Mike McCallum?

As I remember he didn't defend his title either. Maybe Pacquiao should meet Martinez in the ring, he has undoubtedly grown and handled the larger Margarito (the defeater of you know who). However, Pacquiao is nearing the end of a long career and I doubt we will see any returns to LMW. Their eras did not quite overlap, we are rapidly nearing the end of prime Pacquiao. He has compted in nearly 60 fights, there will probably be one more fight after Mosely and then retirement.

I understand Martinez's coach couldn't make it to last nights fight, but that doesn't mean Roach should be doing his job. Roach can put forward the best weight for his fighter, thats his job. He could demand barenuckle at LW, its up to Martinez's camp to sort out his end. Roach is probably a busy man and doesn't have the time to be offering advice to Martinez's coaching team.

As far as I can tell Baltimora is criticising Cotto only as a cheap shot at Pacquiao. In fact at every possible opportunity he does the same thing. Thats obsessed. Why not just leave the debate all together, unless its on a specific thread.

Margarito was ranked for one reason and one reason only-to enable Top Rank to bill the fight as something it wasn't. Even Haye, for all his criticism, took a fight (two, technically) at heavyweight before fighting for a belt, and when he did it was against a guy who-rightly or wrongly-was a champion.

Martinez is good but his opponent last night was awful. Not to forget Pavlik was actually outboxing him until he got cut.

Criticising Cotto? Not at all. Do I think he's being managed by someone who doesn't have his best interests at heart? Absolutely. Since being destroyed by Pacquiao-a very good win slightly marred by a catchweight-Cotto is yet to prove he's back in force. A win over a one-legged Foreman and a tough, game but limited and past-it Mayorga do not prove that Cotto is at his best. If you see that as a slight against Pacquiao you're wrong. It's a slight against their handler.

hitsman now I've heard it all, you're either a pacquiao fan boy or a martinez hater. Pavlik got his backside handed to him by martinez. He had 2-3 good rounds in the middle but he mostly was outclassed. The cheap knockdown which was actually a slip pushed the cards closer than the fight really was.

Cotto dropped 1 lbs it happens all the time. If one trains properly losing or gaining 2 lbs shouldn't make any difference. Pacquiao moved up in weigh and before that down, then up - no one gives any thought to him. I doubt Cotto is being used. Stepping up to LMW is actually a bit of a risk, plus he was dwarfed by the opponent. He could have rematched Jennings. As I said Cotto has competed in numerous big fights recently, he can't do it in every fight. He was the favourite against Mayorga but I saw it before hand as a 8-4 and it was a competitive fight. Matching up with the best opponents possible now, may be more detrimental to his career.

Chris, Margarito from memory lost his shot at the 154lb about 6/7 years ago so having not fought anyone there of note since he did not deserve a ranking. Sit back look at the facts for once and you may come to a sensible conclusion.

Martinez's opponent was so bad he is considered by many to have the best jab in boxing, was undefeated and beaten some good names en route. As for Pavlik he had a good 2/3 round spell but was trailing on the cards at the time of the cut.

The 145lb catchweight was irrelevant, I agree, but the fact it WAS stipulated will always very slightly taint that win, no two ways about it. There's no doubt that Arum has Cotto in mind as a means to expand his own wealth first and foremost, not to build Cotto a fine legacy.

We all agree that manny would have won at the 147 limit anyway, but the fact is they didn't fight there so it taints the win.

I'm a big Martinez fan! And no, I wouldn't want Cotto to fight him. Not because I feel Cotto has no chance, but because I feel Cotto should rematch Margarito - hopefully beat him - and hang 'em up to seal an already glittering career. Watch the fight, Pavlik was outboxing Martinez for a fair few rounds until his cut took over. Cotto would have a decent chance but he's had his fair share of tough fights.

Martinez should fight the recognised no.1 contender at middle in Felix Sturm.

That fight would never happen, Sturm after the De La Hoya disgrace will probably never leave Germany again for a big fight

**Do I think he's being managed by someone who doesn't have his best interests at heart? Absolutely.

Isn't that for Mr. Cotto and his team to decide? I'm sure he wouldn't have extended his contract with Top Rank if that was really the case. He had the option of choosing Golden Boy but chose Top Rank.

Besides, Top Rank have done great for Cotto. He holds the records for the most number of tickets sold at the Garden in NY in the history of the sport. He's also managed 100,000+ PPVs in Puerto Rico alone - that's something Felix Trinidad never even achieved.

Top Rank may undoubtedly have done well by Cotto, but the simple fact is Bob Arum is a very mercenary person when it comes to making money, as his recent spate of increasingly disappointing in-house match-ups has shown. Let's not forget; this IS Mr 'f**k the fans'...

Martinez would school sturm as he has already schooled dzinzurik. Both work of the jab and he would be exposed the same way.

As I said, lets leave the May/Pac bickering aside. Its nothing to do with this topic and its not in the spirit of the new 606.

As it happens, I have no problem with Marge being highly ranked at LMW. Mayweather moved up and competed for a title straight out, Haye had one fight, this is a hallmark of modern boxing. Marge and Pac are two stars of boxing if a title is on the line, it adds to the drama of the fight. As they have both achieved a great deal in the past, over 10 world titles between them, they can imo fight for titles in other divisions. If the fighters are unheard of, perhaps its a different story. Has anyone else taken on prime versions of Pacquiao, Cotto, Mosely and Williams?

I hear you BALTI

Sturm would be a great match up for Martinez. He needs a title as well! I imagine JCC Jr and Zbik will do their best to avoid him, but ideally fight the winner from these two and then Sturm. Again, neither 3 have the style to bother Martinez. Its not a talent laiden division, but he could collect some titles.

i think degales opponents corner should have thrown the towel in long before round 5- he was just taking damage pointlessly