England vs Wales Match thread

[Adam D]

First topic message reminder :

Use this thread during the game to discuss the incidents whilst they happen.

[Taylorman]

For me England should be concerned about why they were unable to convert a plethora of opportunities in a match where they were at home, knew the welsh team were a genuine challenge, and met one who were by recent performances sub par.

From a SH point of view and I appreciate we are a different side bu if the ABs had the same field positions, opportunities and posession as England many tries would have been scored. Not one or two...many. Comes back to comments made recently about England being unfamiliar with attack mode in its truer form.

Too much focus on posession, position and ball retention. Not enough on all out attack.

Wales confirmed theyre on the roll they started in the friendlys pre world cup. The try showed each of the players knows they can make a difference no matter what is thrown at them. Sign of a winning team.

Priestland going off for 10 was a godsend for wales as he butchered everything he touched.

Rather than looking at petty ref calls England need to focus on why they were unable to score a single try despite an at times struggling welsh side, at home, where things are supposed to go well.

[mystiroakey]

thanks for the laugh taylorman

[Guest]

So is this Scott Williams or Scott Gibbs?

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2012/2/26/1330217982935/williams-karma-007.jpg

[miteyironpaw]

For me England should be concerned about why they were unable to convert a plethora of opportunities in a match where they were at home, knew the welsh team were a genuine challenge, and met one who were by recent performances sub par.

From a SH point of view and I appreciate we are a different side bu if the ABs had the same field positions, opportunities and posession as England many tries would have been scored. Not one or two...many. Comes back to comments made recently about England being unfamiliar with attack mode in its truer form.

Too much focus on posession, position and ball retention. Not enough on all out attack.

Wales confirmed theyre on the roll they started in the friendlys pre world cup. The try showed each of the players knows they can make a difference no matter what is thrown at them. Sign of a winning team.

Priestland going off for 10 was a godsend for wales as he butchered everything he touched.

Rather than looking at petty ref calls England need to focus on why they were unable to score a single try despite an at times struggling welsh side, at home, where things are supposed to go well.

On attack we are clueless Taylorman. Everyone is static, looking at each other and completely startled. "Oh no, we've got the ball! what should we do now?". The team instantly cristalises into a group of individuals. We've got forwards and backs all mixed standing flat footed and unaligned, just waiting for the ball to be turned over so we can go back to something we understand - defending. The look of relief on most players faces when Farell kicked it away was almost too evident.

Only Tuilagi seemed to know what to do, and that was less of a keen understanding of the nuances of rugby, and more a maniacal desire to run headlong at full pace at the nearest Welsh defender.

[Hound_of_Harrow]

For me England should be concerned about why they were unable to convert a plethora of opportunities in a match where they were at home, knew the welsh team were a genuine challenge, and met one who were by recent performances sub par.

From a SH point of view and I appreciate we are a different side bu if the ABs had the same field positions, opportunities and posession as England many tries would have been scored. Not one or two...many. Comes back to comments made recently about England being unfamiliar with attack mode in its truer form.

Too much focus on posession, position and ball retention. Not enough on all out attack.

Wales confirmed theyre on the roll they started in the friendlys pre world cup. The try showed each of the players knows they can make a difference no matter what is thrown at them. Sign of a winning team.

Priestland going off for 10 was a godsend for wales as he butchered everything he touched.

Rather than looking at petty ref calls England need to focus on why they were unable to score a single try despite an at times struggling welsh side, at home, where things are supposed to go well.

Does much of that post remind anyone of a certain NZ team in the RWC q/f in 2007?

Just saying like.

[miteyironpaw]

I don't know but I'm certainly starting to see where they were coming from with a certain referee.

[Cymroglan]

Wales.. What this years six nations has shown me is that Wales have turned a corner. Not that long ago Wales would have certainly lost but yesterday they showed the mental attitude to keep going for the full 80+min
We cant expect every game to produce flawless rugby but knowing how to win when not firing on all cylinders is a great weapon to have in the armoury.

England,, It came as no surprise to me that England ran Wales close the confident English side was at home with two wins already under their belt.
The true test now is how England perform in their next match after suffering their first loss under Lancaster.

[Heaf]

When AWJ was binned two years ago, we shipped 17 points. When Priestland got binned today, we came away with 3 versus 3. That's the difference. England confidence must have taken a knock when they got nothing from the 1 man advantage.

Thanks to Walsh ignoring the most obvious knock-on you could hope to see and denying England an attacking scrum with an extra man in the backs ... instead play went on resulting in a penalty and 3 points to Wales ....

Move on you goon. You were battered in the scrums and the breakdown and Walsh didn't reward our dominance in those areas.

P.S. Triple Crown ring any bells?

Nice!
I was commenting on the ref's performance and why England may not have made the most of the sin-bin period, not criticising your team ...
Any need for the childish abuse?

[miteyironpaw]

I really didn't see England being "smashed" or "humiliated" the way we were promised. I guess England did pretty well for a bunch of youngsters to almost topple what is apparently (by it's billing) the greatest team to ever take to a rugby field...?

[Rory_Gallagher]

Heaf, it is Morgan. He is a very childish and immature poster.

[Taffineastbourne]

Fair play to England.They made us work hard and showed the press that Wales are not the finished article just yet.
Maybe big lumps everywhere isnt so clever?Lesson learned,I hope.No point having massive wings if the centres do not get the ball to them.
Our back row and front row won us that match.
Rhys had a bit of a mare but we coped.Tovey needs to step up and provide some serious competition a bit sharpish.
Hats of to Ryan Jones who is still giving his all as a bits and pieces utilty forward who is ideal for the bench.
Could not have complained had we lost.Mighty glad that we won!

[Taylorman]

For me England should be concerned about why they were unable to convert a plethora of opportunities in a match where they were at home, knew the welsh team were a genuine challenge, and met one who were by recent performances sub par.

From a SH point of view and I appreciate we are a different side bu if the ABs had the same field positions, opportunities and posession as England many tries would have been scored. Not one or two...many. Comes back to comments made recently about England being unfamiliar with attack mode in its truer form.

Too much focus on posession, position and ball retention. Not enough on all out attack.

Wales confirmed theyre on the roll they started in the friendlys pre world cup. The try showed each of the players knows they can make a difference no matter what is thrown at them. Sign of a winning team.

Priestland going off for 10 was a godsend for wales as he butchered everything he touched.

Rather than looking at petty ref calls England need to focus on why they were unable to score a single try despite an at times struggling welsh side, at home, where things are supposed to go well.

Does much of that post remind anyone of a certain NZ team in the RWC q/f in 2007?

Just saying like.

Wasn't meant as a WUM and if you can't tell the difference between a complete one off performance- team or ref depending on what the reference is to...and a systematic problem through the team culture over a number of years then thats fine...keeping tuning in to matches like this and go.... geee...wonder what happened there...?

[Hound_of_Harrow]

I know it's not a wum, but you will not waste an opportunity to knock NH rugby, amd England in particular.

The SH play the bestest rugby ever!!!!!

There, does that make you feel better.

[Morgannwg]

When AWJ was binned two years ago, we shipped 17 points. When Priestland got binned today, we came away with 3 versus 3. That's the difference. England confidence must have taken a knock when they got nothing from the 1 man advantage.

Thanks to Walsh ignoring the most obvious knock-on you could hope to see and denying England an attacking scrum with an extra man in the backs ... instead play went on resulting in a penalty and 3 points to Wales ....

Move on you goon. You were battered in the scrums and the breakdown and Walsh didn't reward our dominance in those areas.

P.S. Triple Crown ring any bells?

Nice!
I was commenting on the ref's performance and why England may not have made the most of the sin-bin period, not criticising your team ...
Any need for the childish abuse?

Yes there was. Because you have been whining about it on every single thread regarding Wales or England (or both). And yeah you are blaming the ref so in turn criticising the team I support.

[Morgannwg]

For me England should be concerned about why they were unable to convert a plethora of opportunities in a match where they were at home, knew the welsh team were a genuine challenge, and met one who were by recent performances sub par.

From a SH point of view and I appreciate we are a different side bu if the ABs had the same field positions, opportunities and posession as England many tries would have been scored. Not one or two...many. Comes back to comments made recently about England being unfamiliar with attack mode in its truer form.

Too much focus on posession, position and ball retention. Not enough on all out attack.

Wales confirmed theyre on the roll they started in the friendlys pre world cup. The try showed each of the players knows they can make a difference no matter what is thrown at them. Sign of a winning team.

Priestland going off for 10 was a godsend for wales as he butchered everything he touched.

Rather than looking at petty ref calls England need to focus on why they were unable to score a single try despite an at times struggling welsh side, at home, where things are supposed to go well.

Does much of that post remind anyone of a certain NZ team in the RWC q/f in 2007?

Just saying like.

Wasn't meant as a WUM and if you can't tell the difference between a complete one off performance- team or ref depending on what the reference is to...and a systematic problem through the team culture over a number of years then thats fine...keeping tuning in to matches like this and go.... geee...wonder what happened there...?

Oh hear hear. Fine posts Taylor, fine posts.

[Heaf]

Heaf, it is Morgan. He is a very childish and immature poster.

Clearly ... Any questioning of decisions made by officials etc in a match involving Wales he seems to regard as a personal attack ...

[Taylorman]

Fair comment hound...mainly on the back of Mitey's well timed 'we've got nothing to be afraid of summary of all 3 SH conferences" which was a bit silly so shouldnt play those games. So I know the emotions are high and for me that was by far the best game of the weekend- and I watched, or tried to watch 8 of them all live..some overlapping.

I'll back off that side of the commentary...on the whole I enjoyed the game and thought England would get there in the end as its the sort of match they normally would so although they're improving they've still got some soul searching to do.

There were good signs, particularly the change in midfield with Farrell and Tuilagi, there just seems to be some one offness about all the attacks- have a go sort of thing, we'll get in and support, tie the ball up and start again.

Not saying there wasn't continuity, there just needed to be some more purpose to it, making each attempt a gain in some small way rather that a restart each time.

That's where the clearing out ahead of the ball would have helped, it helps maintain continuity, go forward ball, and more importantly defences back peddling more. Wales were just allowed to regroup with the few extra seconds given each time.

Some quick ball was there and good to see so perhaps its improving anyway.

[Morgannwg]

Heaf, it is Morgan. He is a very childish and immature poster.

Clearly ... Any questioning of decisions made by officials etc in a match involving Wales he seems to regard as a personal attack ...

The two of you need to look in the mirror before calling anyone childish and immature, Rory in particular and that has now been well documented by other fans after already being documented by me weeks ago. You have both been blaming the refs since round one and are giving a bad name to the other supporters of the teams you claim to follow as people generalise too easy on here.

But I am not one to make sweeping generalisations and I realise the muppet posters are few (in this case, you two) and far between.

[Heaf]

And yet it is you who resorts to personal abuse when someone disagrees with you ... Very mature ....

[Heaf]

PS can you also remind me what I 'blamed' the ref for in rounds one and two please?

[Guest]

Can we all desist with the childish bickering and name calling and get back to actually discussing rugby, instead of point scoring please. Thanks.

[Heaf]

Sorry RD, I'm trying my best ...

[Guest]

[PJHolybloke]

Can we all desist with the childish bickering and name calling and get back to actually discussing rugby, instead of point scoring please. Thanks.

Oh! Nice reference to "point scoring" there Dreamer, I suppose you think that's funny, huh?



Put 'em up and let's duke it out.....

[Morgannwg]

The angle shown on Scrum V confirms what we all knew, that it was not a try. I feel stupid that I praised England after the bile on here.

[miteyironpaw]

I thought it confirmed that from the angle in Scrum V it couldn't be determined.

There are other angles i've seen that seem to suggest it was. Anyway, the grounding or not on that try is a red herring, the issues are: (1) Should Wales have had 15 men on the field at that point (2) Were England playing under advantage?

[Heaf]

(1) no
(2) yes

[Woodstock]

I thought it confirmed that from the angle in Scrum V it couldn't be determined.

There are other angles i've seen that seem to suggest it was. Anyway, the grounding or not on that try is a red herring, the issues are: (1) Should Wales have had 15 men on the field at that point (2) Were England playing under advantage?

1. Did you lose? YES

2. Do you have Sour Grapes? Most definately YES

3. Had the referee decided advantage was over? YES (similar to Wales advantage which was far shorter than precious little England's).

4. Other angles??? Are you serious, are you now sugesting a conspiracy theory based on the video evidence not been given by the BBC? You do know the 4th Ref sits in the production vehicle outside the stadium and has access to all cameras don't you?

Still not managed to build that bridge then.

[Shifty]

Oh! Nice reference to "point scoring" there Dreamer, I suppose you think that's funny, huh?

Put 'em up and let's duke it out.....

Sometimes you just read something that makes you laugh... Very good post~!

[GunsGerms]

England should have been given a penalty try. Wales have been quite lucky really winning both against England and Ireland due to refereeing errors. That said they probably have been marginally the best team so far in the tournament.

[Cymroglan]

England should have been given a penalty try. Wales have been quite lucky really winning both against England and Ireland due to refereeing errors. That said they probably have been marginally the best team so far in the tournament.

Given a penalty try for what? Ireland were beaten by a better team blaming the ref is not the answer.

[GunsGerms]

England should have been given a penalty try. Wales have been quite lucky really winning both against England and Ireland due to refereeing errors. That said they probably have been marginally the best team so far in the tournament.

Given a penalty try for what? Ireland were beaten by a better team blaming the ref is not the answer.

Wales were marginally better v Ireland. The game was actually decided by a penalty that was proven not to be a penalty plus Wales it was proven deserved a red card. That's why they were lucky.

It against the rules of the game to deliberately knock the ball into touch. Tommy Bowe got carded for this in '08 v NZ. Fast forward to 2 minutes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40syRcbMSpQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

North could also have been carded for a tackle on Farrell when he lifted him completely off the ground. Strettles try could have gone either way. Wales are definitely getting the rub of the green.

[Cymroglan]

No it was not proven that it was not a penalty and I'm not sure where you got that idea from.
The only thing that was decided was that no further action was needed and the disciplinary panel stood by the refs decision.

Come on you cant be serious when you suggest that a penalty try should be awarded in a situation like that. The ref watched it in real time and he like the rest of us had no clue who touched the ball.

North being carded for a legal tackle? Did he at any point let him go or did you notice that he put him down safely.

[miteyironpaw]

Come on you cant be serious when you suggest that a penalty try should be awarded in a situation like that. The ref watched it in real time and he like the rest of us had no clue who touched the ball.

And yet he awarded the lineout correctly to England...

Sounds like he knew who had thrown it into touch to me...

[Guest]

or that he saw it had come of a Welsh player, but didn't see how? (as both the refs and linesmans view was impeded)

honestly, the conspirasy theories coming from some "England" fans (I don't want to insult the majority of great English posters on here by lumping you all together) has become rather embarrassing since the match on Saturday.

[wales606]

If North had been carded for that tackle, then I would have given up on watching rugby - there was nothing wrong with it, just a hard hit, no lifting or dropping involved.

When making a hard tackle become a carding offence, I will give up.

[ChequeredJersey]

Tackle was completely fair. The tipping the ball into touch was rather dodgy but the officials didn't spot it

[ChequeredJersey]

Also, I'm not sure that a lot of people remember it is a penalty- the BBC feed described it as a tip into touch by North but didn't state it was illegal, neither did Moore, so maybe it's one of those things that we tacitly allow now?

[GunsGerms]

No it was not proven that it was not a penalty and I'm not sure where you got that idea from.
The only thing that was decided was that no further action was needed and the disciplinary panel stood by the refs decision.

Come on you cant be serious when you suggest that a penalty try should be awarded in a situation like that. The ref watched it in real time and he like the rest of us had no clue who touched the ball.

North being carded for a legal tackle? Did he at any point let him go or did you notice that he put him down safely.

Based on the precident I proved a penalty should have been awarded. Certainly a card and a penalty to England would have been just.

I thought it was clear enough that Ferris shouldn't have been penalised. He was penalised for a dump tackle which should warrant a ban. If he wasn't guilty of doing a dump tackle then what was the penalty for? Norths tackle was worse because he lifted Farrell clean off the ground before driving him back. Too similar situations. Both times the decision went to the Welsh. Lucky in my opinion.

[miteyironpaw]

Also, I'm not sure that a lot of people remember it is a penalty- the BBC feed described it as a tip into touch by North but didn't state it was illegal, neither did Moore, so maybe it's one of those things that we tacitly allow now?

If the tipper is Welsh, apparently.

[GunsGerms]

If North had been carded for that tackle, then I would have given up on watching rugby - there was nothing wrong with it, just a hard hit, no lifting or dropping involved.

When making a hard tackle become a carding offence, I will give up.

Why didn't you give up when ferris was carded for a perfectly legal tackle v Wales?

[Cymroglan]

No it was not proven that it was not a penalty and I'm not sure where you got that idea from.
The only thing that was decided was that no further action was needed and the disciplinary panel stood by the refs decision.

Come on you cant be serious when you suggest that a penalty try should be awarded in a situation like that. The ref watched it in real time and he like the rest of us had no clue who touched the ball.

North being carded for a legal tackle? Did he at any point let him go or did you notice that he put him down safely.

Based on the precident I proved a penalty should have been awarded. Certainly a card and a penalty to England would have been just.

I thought it was clear enough that Ferris shouldn't have been penalised. He was penalised for a dump tackle which should warrant a ban. If he wasn't guilty of doing a dump tackle then what was the penalty for? Norths tackle was worse because he lifted Farrell clean off the ground before driving him back. Too similar situations. Both times the decision went to the Welsh. Lucky in my opinion.

The IRB stood by the refs decision at no stage did they say a penalty should not have been awarded.

I suggest you look at the North tackle again at no stage was it a dangerous tackle, You are the first person I have seen that thinks it was foul play.

[GunsGerms]

You are missing the point. Based on the Ferris tackle which granted wasn't dangerous the North tackle should have been penalised. This is the rub of the green I am referring to.

[Cymroglan]

You are missing the point. Based on the Ferris tackle which granted wasn't dangerous the North tackle should have been penalised. This is the rub of the green I am referring to.

What point ? The North tackle was not a penalty offence in any shape or form. Have you seen anything in the press that suggests that it was not a legal tackle ?, Ref's don't give a penalty for a hard tackle.

[miteyironpaw]

The Ferris call was a terrible mistake by Barnes. You can't have it both ways Wales606.

Leinster is spot on that either both were penalties and cards or as I think we all agree, neither were.

[Cymroglan]

1.30 on the video . Mitey or Leinster can you explain to me what was wrong with the tackle and why you believe it was a penalty.
Every pundit has said it was a good tackle why do you believe they are wrong ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28ctfUDXfMs

[Taffineastbourne]

WUM alert has been activated.Proceed with caution.If not a WUM then perhaps a doctor is required somewhere in Leinster(allegedly!)

[miteyironpaw]

1.30 on the video . Mitey or Leinster can you explain to me what was wrong with the tackle and why you believe it was a penalty.
Every pundit has said it was a good tackle why do you believe they are wrong ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28ctfUDXfMs

It's not a penalty. But then neither was the Ferris tackle. For the same reason.

[Cymroglan]

This afternoon’s joint statement appears to come in response to comments made by Ireland manager Michael Kearney on Wednesday. Speaking after Ferris had been cleared, Kearney revealed that that the disciplinary panel felt that the incident did not even merit a penalty.

Both the IRB and Six Nations deny that this is the case and said today that no criticism of Barnes’ decision should be inferred.

“While an Independent Six Nations Disciplinary Panel did not ultimately uphold the citing, the IRB’s match officials performance review endorsed Barnes’ decision to award a penalty,” this afternoon’s statement said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Penalty or not the IRB backed the ref on his decision,, I'm not even sure we need to be discussing this again it's been done to death.

[GunsGerms]

Exactly therefore if Ferris wasn't penalised as he shouldn't have been there is no guarantee Wales would have won v Ireland which is why in my opinion they have been quite fortunate.

Ferris' was so good it may have even lead to a turnover but we will never know.

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