England vs Wales Match thread

[Adam D]

First topic message reminder :

Use this thread during the game to discuss the incidents whilst they happen.

[miteyironpaw]

North should have gone to the bin for the deliberate knock into touch. I'd argue penalty try in that case. Most people with perspective on here are in agreement.

I don't hold any grudge against Wales, it's just needling when Wales have copped the benefit of awful decisions three weeks in a row. I'd like to think Welsh fans had some perspective on that.

[Morgannwg]

mitey, what was Priestlands sinbin for? And why did Walsh penalise us for going off our feet at rucks when we weren't? You were holding on to the ball before your lineout in the left corner, so shouldn't have even been in a scoring position in the other corner.

[miteyironpaw]

Priestland was offside at the ruck - Walsh had already issued a team warning. Frankly you were offside all day against Scotland and Ireland as well but got away with it all day on those occasions. RP was either unbound and part of the ruck, and played the acting half back, or he wasn't bound to a ruck and off-side. Take your pick.

The "off the feet at the ruck" thing is this years new SH interpretation. Check out the super-rugby where it's causing chaos too. Both SH refs blew it consistently the same way today. You can't support your weight on your arms and feet anymore, you have to have all your weight on your feet. As soon as you put your hands down they call it "the ruck monkey" and penalise. Although in Wales case (especially Warburton) it was more a case of a headlong dive into the English side of the ruck to seal off the ball. Can't believe you have an issue with it to be honest.

[Woodstock]

Priestland was offside at the ruck - Walsh had already issued a team warning. Frankly you were offside all day against Scotland and Ireland as well but got away with it all day on those occasions. RP was either unbound and part of the ruck, and played the acting half back, or he wasn't bound to a ruck and off-side. Take your pick.

The "off the feet at the ruck" thing is this years new SH interpretation. Check out the super-rugby where it's causing chaos too. Both SH refs blew it consistently the same way today. You can't support your weight on your arms and feet anymore, you have to have all your weight on your feet. As soon as you put your hands down they call it "the ruck monkey" and penalise. Although in Wales case (especially Warburton) it was more a case of a headlong dive into the English side of the ruck to seal off the ball. Can't believe you have an issue with it to be honest.

It's more guff from Sour Grapes man........try and many up for Christ's sake you lost.........oh yes you did

[miteyironpaw]

If you don't want me to explain the rules to you, then please don't ask.

You do realise you are using sour grapes in the wrong context there again don't you?

"sour grapes" is a analogy used when someone who can't have something claims they didn't want it anyway. Not when someone is explaining the rules of rugby after another mis-application handed a victory to Wales.

[Woodstock]

If you don't want me to explain the rules to you, then please don't ask.

You do realise you are using sour grapes in the wrong context there again don't you?

"sour grapes" is a analogy used when someone who can't have something claims they didn't want it anyway. Not when someone is explaining the rules of rugby after another mis-application handed a victory to Wales.

You lost, history will say you lost, you lost fair and square the only fact which remains is YOU can't handle it, in my book that is SOUR GRAPES what what

[Standulstermen]

I find myself in the sickening position of being jealous of the England team after watching that. They have gone for a new look and youth and it will pay off. I thought they probably edged the game today but the savvy of guys like warburton, Jenkins etc and their scramble defence just saw Wales home.

From my own perspective I would agree north was lucky not to be binned and I actually thought it was a try but these decisions can go either way. There probably are a dozen more contentious ones one way or another throughout the game and I applaud Walsh for not penalising the tackle on Farrell in the first half (Mr.Barnes take note).

What I do admire about Wales is that they seem to have game breakers everywhere and somebody always seems to come up with something. It was north against us, Williams today and Roberts, Davies and halfpenny are all equally capable.

Two cracking young teams out there and I am sorry to say Ireland are a fair bit behind both.

[samuraidragon]

On the Priestland yellow, it was marginal , but his front foot was forward of the English rucking player. He also took out the scrum half without the ball - though, in fact, England were in the process of butchering the recycle.

On the charge-down itself, RP had plenty of time and took an age to set himself and failed to look up. It wasn't even Charge-down Charlie coming at him, but a lumbering second rower. Watching the game again, I noted a hospital pass he gave JD2 in our own 22 which we barely managed to recycle.

In attack the deep ball to Roberts and JD2 was easily read by England and no ground was made. We needed to get the ball wider faster, avoiding that midfield congestion.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The Welsh Job: welcome to 606v2, some good points there.

Mitey: I see that us Welsh no longer have a monopoly on being bad losers.

[samuraidragon]

When AWJ was binned two years ago, we shipped 17 points. When Priestland got binned today, we came away with 3 versus 3. That's the difference. England confidence must have taken a knock when they got nothing from the 1 man advantage.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

That ten minutes was key. England didn't capitalise and they lost the momentum.

[Guest]

David Strettle did ground the ball as the video highlights confirm - between 4:00 and 4.10. But that's the way the cookie crumbles. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17168118

In real motion you can see that Strettle when on the ground lifts the ball up and brings it down quickly to the ground. The slow motion shows that the ball is grounded before the welsh player slides in and slides the ball onto Strettles arm.

Strettle himself says he "knows" he grounded the ball.

[dogtooth]

wales played some of the best rugby in that 10 minutes. why didnt they keep going like?

it didnt feel like a win. it was exhausting.

[HammerofThunor]

I agree. Partly down to poor decision making and lack of experience from England. And partly down to good decision making from Wales.

Regarding the try that is the angle the TMO should have used more and the only one that clearly shows the ball when 'grounded'. Whether it was actually grounded depends on whether you're English or Welsh and I'm not too bothered by it not given (more annoyed that the TMO didn't do a slo-mo on the view given in highlights).

[HammerofThunor]

Strettle himself says he "knows" he grounded the ball.

Must be true then

[samuraidragon]

Chances of Flood getting the conversion ? <25%?

Chances of Farrell getting it? 40-50%?

[mystiroakey]

chances of JW getting it in his prime- one million percent- YES!!

[samuraidragon]

Chances of Neil Jenkins getting it - likewise.

But that was then. This is now.

[TJ1]

David Strettle did ground the ball as the video highlights confirm - between 4:00 and 4.10. But that's the way the cookie crumbles. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17168118

In real motion you can see that Strettle when on the ground lifts the ball up and brings it down quickly to the ground. The slow motion shows that the ball is grounded before the welsh player slides in and slides the ball onto Strettles arm.

Strettle himself says he "knows" he grounded the ball.

Not conclusive from that - I think Strettles own hand was under it.

Of course strettle thinks he grounded it - players always do

[Hound_of_Harrow]

Congrats on the win Wales.

On the potential yellow for Robshaw at the line out, I assume this is the first line out?

If so the main cause of Warburton crashing to earth was that his 'lifter' let go of him just before he caught the ball. This left him at the mercy of momentum - I didn't think there was any intent to upend Warburton.

In general Walsh refereed like many refs do, giving decisions in favour of the team going forward (whether right or wrong). Players need to cop onto this and be a bit smarter (M. Stevens take note).

[Guest]

North should have gone to the bin for the deliberate knock into touch.

And Robshaw should have been binned for taking out Warburton in the air.

[Heaf]

When AWJ was binned two years ago, we shipped 17 points. When Priestland got binned today, we came away with 3 versus 3. That's the difference. England confidence must have taken a knock when they got nothing from the 1 man advantage.

Thanks to Walsh ignoring the most obvious knock-on you could hope to see and denying England an attacking scrum with an extra man in the backs ... instead play went on resulting in a penalty and 3 points to Wales ....

[Breadvan]

My two pence......

Chuffed to bits at Englands performance overall.

Well done Wales. Awesome first 15 minutes.

Kudos to Farrell,Dickson, Manu,Corbs, Faletau,1/2 p

Clip round the ear to Preistland,Youngs ( ) Stevens.

Superb stealing of the ball from the Welsh defence when England were on the attack.

Not going to moan about the refs decisions, they happen in every game. Deal with it and move on.

[Guest]

http://www.theidentgallery.com/player.php?id=BBC1W-2012-ID-SPECIAL-TRIPLECROWN-1

[miteyironpaw]

David Strettle did ground the ball as the video highlights confirm - between 4:00 and 4.10. But that's the way the cookie crumbles. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17168118

In real motion you can see that Strettle when on the ground lifts the ball up and brings it down quickly to the ground. The slow motion shows that the ball is grounded before the welsh player slides in and slides the ball onto Strettles arm.

Strettle himself says he "knows" he grounded the ball.

Not conclusive from that - I think Strettles own hand was under it.

Of course strettle thinks he grounded it - players always do

Who was the TMO? Sounds like a Welsh accent to me responding to Walsh.

[ChequeredJersey]

David Strettle did ground the ball as the video highlights confirm - between 4:00 and 4.10. But that's the way the cookie crumbles. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17168118

In real motion you can see that Strettle when on the ground lifts the ball up and brings it down quickly to the ground. The slow motion shows that the ball is grounded before the welsh player slides in and slides the ball onto Strettles arm.

Strettle himself says he "knows" he grounded the ball.

Not conclusive from that - I think Strettles own hand was under it.

Of course strettle thinks he grounded it - players always do

Who was the TMO? Sounds like a Welsh accent to me responding to Walsh.

Lol, he did sound a bit Welsh but I'm fairly sure he wasn't, I don't think that's allowed! In the end we lost

[miteyironpaw]

David Strettle did ground the ball as the video highlights confirm - between 4:00 and 4.10. But that's the way the cookie crumbles. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17168118

In real motion you can see that Strettle when on the ground lifts the ball up and brings it down quickly to the ground. The slow motion shows that the ball is grounded before the welsh player slides in and slides the ball onto Strettles arm.

Strettle himself says he "knows" he grounded the ball.

Not conclusive from that - I think Strettles own hand was under it.

Of course strettle thinks he grounded it - players always do

Who was the TMO? Sounds like a Welsh accent to me responding to Walsh.

Lol, he did sound a bit Welsh but I'm fairly sure he wasn't, I don't think that's allowed! In the end we lost

It was Iain Ramage. Scottish, you see. Celtish conspiracy!

[Morgannwg]

When AWJ was binned two years ago, we shipped 17 points. When Priestland got binned today, we came away with 3 versus 3. That's the difference. England confidence must have taken a knock when they got nothing from the 1 man advantage.

Thanks to Walsh ignoring the most obvious knock-on you could hope to see and denying England an attacking scrum with an extra man in the backs ... instead play went on resulting in a penalty and 3 points to Wales ....

Move on you goon. You were battered in the scrums and the breakdown and Walsh didn't reward our dominance in those areas.

P.S. Triple Crown ring any bells?

[Shifty]

It's irriatating that another good game of rugby has decended into a referee discussion on these boards.

Walsh wasn't pro Wales at all, in fact he denied Wales a penalty try early in the game, we had the put in and a scrum 5 meters from your line and your scrum disintegrated and we were basically walking towards your try line with the ball secure in the middle of our pack and no legal way for England to stop Wales scoring. the English had already conceeded a penalty for breaking off the scrum, and the ONLY way a try would not of been scored is if we lost control of the ball which was unlikely.

Walsh blew early and gave the penalty, if he had played advantage a Welsh try was inevitable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01cprzt/Six_Nations_Rugby_2012_England_v_Wales/

There's the link, look at 18 minutes 13 seconds. You can clearly see the Welsh driving, England are going backwards in the scrum and disintergrate and Walsh signals for the penalty, now why didn;t he play advantage for a few seconds and let Wales march to the line and score a perfectly fair try?

You can actually see Adam Jones walk up to the ref and complain for Walsh not playing the advantage.

You will always get incidents like this in any game, not to mention the occasion Scott Williams butchered an easy try by not passing to North near the try line.

England played well and probably deserved the win, but to say Wales weren't unlucky themselves not to score more points are living in fairy land.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Well I would say it usually descends to referee discussions because so far in every welsh game there has been annoying controversial decisions that seem to go Wales' way. Against Ireland it was Davies/Ferris. Against Scotland it was Hogg's try. Against England it was Strettles. Wales are a very lucky team with these decisions really. That game could have been a draw quite easily.

[Morgannwg]

Rory, LOL!

[Shifty]

Well I would say it usually descends to referee discussions because so far in every welsh game there has been annoying controversial decisions that seem to go Wales' way. Against Ireland it was Davies/Ferris. Against Scotland it was Hogg's try. Against England it was Strettles. Wales are a very lucky team with these decisions really. That game could have been a draw quite easily.

Rubbish Ireland lost to Wales because they did not kill us off when we went down to 14 men, they scored a try and went to sleep, Wales came back and nicked it.

Wales beat Scotland because Scotland had 2 players yellow carded for silly mistakes and those missing players allowed Wales extra space to score 3 quick fire tries which killed Scotland off.

England lost to Wales because they did not take their chances, both teams could of had yellow cards, Jamie Roberts could of got one, the player that flipped Warburton in the line out got very lucky in escaping a card himself.

I think certain posters are panicking a bit with Wales and saying we are lucky. The truth is Warburton got sent off in the World Cup, when the card could of been any colour so luck and circumstances swings in round abouts.

Wales are making an effort to score tries and 7 tries all from backs, many including moments of brilliance are being rewarded with Welsh wins.
3 games played, 7 tries scored, 3 tries against. That is why Wales are doing well, not referee conspiracies..

[Rory_Gallagher]

I am not panicking (we already lost to you anyway), nor am I taking away from the welsh performance, I am telling you why the referees are brought up a lot when it comes to Wales. The reason Ireland had 14 men was because Ferris was yellow carded and penalised (wrongly). Scotland were yellow carded twice for silly mistakes as you say which was fair, but their try was disallowed (wrongly). England scored a try which could have levelled the scores at the end, which was disallowed (wrongly). That is the point I am making.

[Morgannwg]

Alyn, give up mate. Let us just appoligise for another fine Wales win.

[miteyironpaw]

No need to appologise. We forgive you

Were not the sort to hold a grudge about for example, a referring decision made in the 1970's

[Shifty]

Alyn, give up mate. Let us just appoligise for another fine Wales win.

On behalf of Wales we do hereby Sincerely Apologise for the following:

1) Having a good rugby team

2) Exporting sheep that have been tied to lamp posts in the Welsh valleys and used as leisure centers to England for human consumption.

3) Developing Ben Morgan for England when no English pro or semi pro club thought he was worth the effort.

4) Max Boyce

5) Any win the Welsh rugby team has ever had.

6) the Scottish lineman who gave the line out try in last years Wales V Irelands 6 nations game.

7) having the cheek to ruin Irelands world cup winning party.

8) Writing Scotland off even though they only beat us once in a decade.

9) Not accepting Johnny Wilkinson was fit to lace the boots of Phil Bennett and Barry John.

10) Having any faith or pride in our country.

Anything else while were doing the rounds or does that cover all the basics?

[Morgannwg]

Nice Alyn.

[mystiroakey]

dont worry about any of the above you dont need to apoligise for any of it- just apoligise for being sanctimonious

[eirebilly]

Alyn, give up mate. Let us just appoligise for another fine Wales win.

On behalf of Wales we do hereby Sincerely Apologise for the following:

1) Having a good rugby team

2) Exporting sheep that have been tied to lamp posts in the Welsh valleys and used as leisure centers to England for human consumption.

3) Developing Ben Morgan for England when no English pro or semi pro club thought he was worth the effort.

4) Max Boyce

5) Any win the Welsh rugby team has ever had.

6) the Scottish lineman who gave the line out try in last years Wales V Irelands 6 nations game.

7) having the cheek to ruin Irelands world cup winning party.

8) Writing Scotland off even though they only beat us once in a decade.

9) Not accepting Johnny Wilkinson was fit to lace the boots of Phil Bennett and Barry John.

10) Having any faith or pride in our country.

Anything else while were doing the rounds or does that cover all the basics?

Sorry Alyn but what an absolutely stupid post. Its posts like these that lead to people thinking that Welsh fans are poor.
I applauded Wales' win, all three of them infact but this post shows no grace whatsoever. Grow up.

[Morgannwg]

Actually billy, numbers 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are correct going by this forum. If we are poor for pointing it out and standing by our nation then so be it. Who am I to care when we are leading the table.

[eirebilly]

Personally i have never said that Ireland deserved to beat Wales in the first match, quite the opposite in fact.

I did not complain about the ball last year as it was cheeky but it happens.

I was very happy for Wales when they beat Ireland at the RWC as they played Ireland off the park and desereved the win.

Posting things like the above is extremely arrogant and does little to encourage mature debate and makes the poster look rather simple.

I like watching Wales play rubgy as they are very entertaining and its a good day out but when i read things like that, i understand why certain posters dislike some Welsh fans.

[Morgannwg]

Billy, I think alyn was provoked into saying that, as have I been lately, by English and Irish posters undermining our team and players. Can not think of many Scots, but there were a few unhappy ones during our match against them. Welsh fans probably wouldn't care if they are disliked, but if one is to try and undermine the team then you can expect your noses to be rubbed in it when we win.

[eirebilly]

We are all provoked on here from time to time but there is no need to say such things (in this instance) about the Irish. I cant remember one Irish poster saying that Wales didnt fully deserve their win in the first match, not one. Nor can i remember reading any Irish poster saying that Wales didnt deserve their win at the RWC.

[eirebilly]

I guess, all that i am saying is that Wales have won their first 3 matches and that should be enjoyed, not playing the victem and then having a go at other countries fans.

[Shifty]

Sorry Alyn but what an absolutely stupid post. Its posts like these that lead to people thinking that Welsh fans are poor.
I applauded Wales' win, all three of them infact but this post shows no grace whatsoever. Grow up.

I tried to point out the fair arguments but posters like Rory simply refuse to accept that both teams has breaks and pings.

Wales could of had a penalty try and were undone by a referees early whistle, England were undone by a TMO decision. Both teams could of potentially had an extra yellow card. But he still cannot accept that England lost that game, so I see no problem in decending down to their level for a bit of sarcasm if they won't debate at a resonable level.

[Morgannwg]

Nah yee guys are a good bunch and loved throughout the world. There is an Irish gene in all of us.

Nobody Irish complained about the last two results, I did feel however that some incidents were blown out of proportion on here. I feel from then on that some individuals were latching on to any excuse to undermine us which left a sour taste in my throat. Your good posters on here far outweigh the bad ones though.

[Biltong]

Alyn, give up mate. Let us just appoligise for another fine Wales win.

On behalf of Wales we do hereby Sincerely Apologise for the following:

1) Having a good rugby team

2) Exporting sheep that have been tied to lamp posts in the Welsh valleys and used as leisure centers to England for human consumption.

3) Developing Ben Morgan for England when no English pro or semi pro club thought he was worth the effort.

4) Max Boyce

5) Any win the Welsh rugby team has ever had.

6) the Scottish lineman who gave the line out try in last years Wales V Irelands 6 nations game.

7) having the cheek to ruin Irelands world cup winning party.

8) Writing Scotland off even though they only beat us once in a decade.

9) Not accepting Johnny Wilkinson was fit to lace the boots of Phil Bennett and Barry John.

10) Having any faith or pride in our country.

Anything else while were doing the rounds or does that cover all the basics?

Sorry Alyn but what an absolutely stupid post. Its posts like these that lead to people thinking that Welsh fans are poor.
I applauded Wales' win, all three of them infact but this post shows no grace whatsoever. Grow up.

Yeah it smacks of someone not used to winning much, and then when they do they cant hide the fact that they aren't used to it.

[TycroesOsprey]

How many threads are being locked and deleted on this board? There have been what three pro welsh threads taken down, Do we have another rogue MOD killing anybodys opinion he doesnt like?

[mystiroakey]

your on thin ice there pal- i have been warned for that sort of talk!!

[Guest]

How many threads are being locked and deleted on this board? There have been what three pro welsh threads taken down, Do we have another rogue MOD killing anybodys opinion he doesnt like?

Not a case of a rogue mod at all. More a case of wumming and site rules being broken.

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