England vs Wales Match thread

[Adam D]

First topic message reminder :

Use this thread during the game to discuss the incidents whilst they happen.

[offload]

RP "will learn from his mistakes" - that's manager-speak. He was simply dire, worst performance from a Welsh 10 since Henson in Ireland. Charge-down, yellow card, aimless punts, missing penalties to touch, unbelievably short touches, getting turned over after trying to tun in own 25.

What has been learnt is that he has been very overrated.

That's two ridiculous posts from you in as many minutes on two threads. He didn't play well, enough said.

[ChequeredJersey]

Id agree with that. What did please me paticularly was the Welsh scrum which busted up the English on a few occasions as I had predicted. However RP will learn from his mistakes today which caused us no end of issues. There was a bit of inexperience shown by both sides but other that Tuilagi England still dont have the cutting edge i the backline. Ashton is way off his best, thank the lord I swopped him out of my fantasy league. Foden whilst better than a fortnight ago still isnt firing and I think England really need to look at how they get the ball into their strike runners hands. Some of the passing was weak from midfield and those guys really need the ball to be delivered in front of them not behind or above or from their bootlaces.

I think England need a new scrum half as well, god he looked clueless at times.

SL was right to drop Care but I think he may have learned his lesson? *crosses fingers*

[andy powells minder]

how many times would a poor welsh side have dumped that match? yes I agree urine poor but its still a win -without ANDY!!

[Ospreydragon]

Well done Wales, but also well done England. Warburton outstanding, but so was Farrell. Inexperience in both sides showed at times. Farrell is are real find and i think he'll have a great career.

Great defence by England, but some very inept tactics by Wales at times, and Priestland didn't have his best game -- missed key pens to touch.

England's best game of the 6N so far. Wales didn't play well, but part of that was England didn't allow them.

But I still feel that the Welsh midfield is too samey and a bit one-dimensional. I think S Williams is a better centre than JR, even if he did blow a pass for a try. The skill he showed in ripping the ball, chipping to the right part of the field, chasing for the ball with v good pace, and having the composure to finish it off, was excellent.

Wales have to vary some of their tactics and their kicking game is nowhere near top class. It must improve to beat the SH sides.

I think England and Wales will both get better.

[Knowsit17]

Did the ref score our try for us? Not by my recollection. The grounding of the ball was debatable but even if it was given there's no guarantee Flood would have slotted the touchline conversion.

Actually a lot of today's decisions were debatable. I've already said my bit on how the teams played but Walsh wasn't one-sided, he awarded England penalties too! And here's something to consider, maybe England were pinged because...like...all...sides...they...infringe. If you need a particular kind of ref to feel confident that doesn't send a great message about your side.

There were dodgy decisions but there always are. England were the better side but somehow we still won, I'd say that's that.

[HammerofThunor]

I think it was a try but I also know that if it had been Wales' I would have said no try. Still don't think Flood would have got the conversion so it doesn't really matter. However North should have had a yellow and England a penalty on the line for the deliberate knockout. I've even seen penalty tries given for similar (although they've always been inside the try zone rather than just outside.

What I really want to see know is a consistent selection to develop a squad that can have new players dropped in bit by bit. I'd be reasonably happy with the starting 15. Possibly Wood in. And somebody in for Botha who isn't international standard.

[Cowshot]

Walsh: Not always my favourite ref, but had a good game overall imo. yeah, we can all point at loads he missed, but "materiality" is the name of the game imo, and there he was pretty good.

Xpt of course the Priestland yellow should have been a penalty try.

[ChequeredJersey]

Walsh: Not always my favourite ref, but had a good game overall imo. yeah, we can all point at loads he missed, but "materiality" is the name of the game imo, and there he was pretty good.

Xpt of course the Priestland yellow should have been a penalty try.

His overall game was certainly impartial. Odd refereeing of the rucks but he was clear and consistent in the way he'd referee it so both teams had the opportunity to adapt. I am bitter about that finish though

[niwatts]

I don't want to be harsh on the guy given it was his first start, but was it just me or did Morgan disappear about halfway through the game? The surprising thing was that it was when we had a bit of steam and needed to press our case further that he didn't really seem to be involved as much as required.

[Ospreydragon]

HammerofThunor, What about the foul in the air on Warburton at the lineout? If Rolland had been the ref, Robshaw would have been off the field fo 10 mins. It was a yellow.

[TycroesOsprey]

Wales created more line breaks, missed less tackles, made less errors thats why they won. It was a close game and Farrell completly outplayed his opposite number but a win away is good.

[niwatts]

Are any of you watching the Gloucester game? May is crying out for selection over one of the current wings.

[ChequeredJersey]

Wales created more line breaks, missed less tackles, made less errors thats why they won. It was a close game and Farrell completly outplayed his opposite number but a win away is good.

They made one more break and made more mistakes if turnovers count. But I was very scared on that first North break until Strettle made his beautiful tap tackle

[TycroesOsprey]

3-1 on linebreaks
9-14 on mistakes
5-5 turnovers

[ChequeredJersey]

Are any of you watching the Gloucester game? May is crying out for selection over one of the current wings.

Great play from several players- Burns has been good, as have JSD and Sharples. Monye stepped his game up over recent matches, Marler looks better than Stevens atm (don't know why he was taken off)

[Biltong]

Well done Wales, tough luck England.

I thought Walsh was actually OK.

Halfpenny for me was the welsh player of the match, he was consistently under pressure and did well to handle it.

Barrit for england tackled his heart out. Farrel did well, England actually went forward with him.

Those pedantic rucks of the English got extremely boring at one stage it seems they are waiting for the bloody ice cream van.

Any of the two teams could have won that, but in close matches one mistake can cost you.

What I liked about todays match was the fact that England challenged Wales, at one stage it was 34 rucks to 4, only a few minutes later it was 35 odd rucks each.

You can't fault England for the effort they put in, I think they missed opportunities because they weren't intent on passing enough, Tuilagi looked strong, but apart from that he never off loaded.

Wales were under pressure for the first time today, and when it mattered they scored.

My apologies for not providing any statistics.

[ChequeredJersey]

3-1 on linebreaks
9-14 on mistakes
5-5 turnovers

Not on the stats I have (admittedly suspect) http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2012/rugby/match/133774.html

[ChequeredJersey]

Well done Wales, tough luck England.

I thought Walsh was actually OK.

Halfpenny for me was the welsh player of the match, he was consistently under pressure and did well to handle it.

Barrit for england tackled his heart out. Farrel did well, England actually went forward with him.

Those pedantic rucks of the English got extre,ely boring at one stagem it seems they are waiting for the bloody ice cream van.

Any of the two teams could have won that, but close matches one mistake can cost you.

What I liked about todays match was the fact that England challenged wales, at one stage it was 34 rucks to 4, only a few minutes later it was 35 odd rucks each.

You can't fault England for the effort they put in, I think they missed opportunities because they weren't intent on passing enough, Tuilagi loked strng, but apart from that he ever off loaded.

Wales were under pressure for the first time today, and when it mattered they scored.

My apologies for not providing any statistics.

No worries, I have done it for you

[Biltong]

Thanks mate.

[TycroesOsprey]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17141687

My stats are the beeb but the three linebreaks were North, Williams through and not passing and the try.

[TycroesOsprey]

quite suprised by the Espn stats showing us that far ahead on pos and territory though.

[ChequeredJersey]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17141687

My stats are the beeb but the three linebreaks were North, Williams through and not passing and the try.

I can see where they got that but I don't think the try can count as a break as he was beyond the line when he ripped the ball! Still, a try beats a break though...

[TycroesOsprey]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17141687

My stats are the beeb but the three linebreaks were North, Williams through and not passing and the try.

I can see where they got that but I don't think the try can count as a break as he was beyond the line when he ripped the ball! Still, a try beats a break though...

Na look at the highlights on the bbc sprot site at 2.20 he rips and breaks through hes not beyond the gain line at all.

[ChequeredJersey]

Cool, I'll take your word for it

[tatterd]

Wow - that was close! Well played, England. Farrell was superb, ice-cool nerves. For us Halfpenny was brave as a lion, and shrugged off his missed goalkick very well.

Priestland - worst performance at 10 for Wales since Henson. Charge-down, yellow card, missed touches off penalties, giving away penalties, getting turned over in own 25 m after trying to run - terrible, terrible. And this is after having the goal-licking taken away from coz he couldn't handle the pressure. This guy's bubble has burst.

Scott Williams - brilliant opportunist try redeems the butchering of an gilt-edged try chance.

Roberts - sussed out. We had no go-forward and no guile in the centres. Cuthbert never got a pass.

Warbs, Lydiate, Gethin - immense.

We have to be much better to beat France.

Best summing up of the game I have read - agree wholeheartedly. Priestland has serious question marks over him IMHO. First 2 mins of the game after north had broken through he kicks it away and butvhers the chance. It didn't get any better from there

[niwatts]

Are any of you watching the Gloucester game? May is crying out for selection over one of the current wings.

Great play from several players- Burns has been good, as have JSD and Sharples. Monye stepped his game up over recent matches, Marler looks better than Stevens atm (don't know why he was taken off)

Yes, given it is Corbisero that usually goes off, I'd happily take a chance on Marler or Mullan over Stevens. PDJ would be the other option for someone who covers both sides.

I'd like to see Burns go on the summer tour. He needs to erradicate some errors in his play, but he is one of if not the most attacking FH candidate for us.

On current form I wouldn't worry about having both Sharples & May over Ashton & Strettle.

[niwatts]

Tuilagi looked strong, but apart from that he never off loaded.

He looked around most of the time, I think the problem was more that the quality support wasn't there for him to offload to.

Not sure if that is a lacking feature of the players or something that will come as they come to a greater understanding of each other.

[Cadair Idris]

Best summing up of the game I have read - agree wholeheartedly. Priestland has serious question marks over him IMHO. First 2 mins of the game after north had broken through he kicks it away and butvhers the chance. It didn't get any better from there[/quote]

Agreed - Priestland certainly needs a good game against Italy. It doesn't give me any pleasure to say it but that was a shocking performance which should really have cost us the game. He has done enough up to now to deserve to keep his place for the rest of this championship (assuming no repeat of this nightmare against Italy) then I suspect Gatland will have an increasingly open mind about who plays 10 on the summer tour and beyond.

[stourjim]

I have always thought that Williams would make a better partner for Roberts than Jonathan Davies. Roberts is a greathearted player but he is not being effective in attack and I would like to see the combination of Williams and Davies tried.

[HammerofThunor]

HammerofThunor, What about the foul in the air on Warburton at the lineout? If Rolland had been the ref, Robshaw would have been off the field fo 10 mins. It was a yellow.

Oh I totally agree. I wasn't trying to make excuses. I don't think Walsh really made that much difference.

[Morgannwg]

I had England down to finish fourth, but playing like that they will finish higher.

England dealt with everything we had to offer, and we didn't have a plan B which is worrying. Teams in the 6 Nations know how to stop us now.

I felt you were beaten up a bit up front, but the backline looked quite potent, thanks to Farell, Barritt and Tuilagi. However Tuilagi only knows one way, and this is forward, doesn't seem to vary his game.

You didn't get a try but were up against one of the best defences in the tournament. Two tries in 3 games is a poor return but you should be able to notch a few up if you stick with this backline. We got the opportunist try and that was the only difference.

[samuraidragon]

No plan B - yes, that was worrying. I felt that the crash ball to Roberts was sussed out and our current centre combination is deficient in passing skills. As a result, not enough ball went to Cuthbert and North, our biggest threats. The obvious alternative was kicking, but Priestland's out-of-hand kicking has been mediocre and today was very poor.

Is Scott Williams the answer? The try he scored was an awesome individual effort, but the butchered try displayed naivety. In pro 12 you might be able to bosh over from that range, but not against quality international opposition.

We were not making the yards against England that we made against Scotland and Ireland - though that is also due to the great tackling of the English backline, Farrell included. Barritt & Tualagi are a brick wall.

Mike Phillips was frustrating. Great offload to North in the first minutes of the game, but also unbelievably slow in releasing the ball. In the last quarter he did protect the fragile Priestland from further charge-downs by taking all those boxkicks. But our halfbacks were second best to the English.

[Cymroglan]

Let's not forget that England were playing at home and up for this match.
No six nation side is easy when they play at home Wales did well today considering how much pressure was on this game.
We will have days when things don't go according to plan but if we have the right mindset then we will more often than not win even if it is a ugly win.

[Guest]

That was a cracking game. Both sides went into it full steam ahead. I thought Wales were going to bury England at the start but it's good to see the English lads didn't buckle and then had their own periods of dominance. Much better all round.

I actually feel quite upbeat about England now and even though I'm disappointed I'm sort of glad we didn't scrape a lucky win but play badly. This was certainly a more rounded performance than either of the two games that England won. Glad to see some turnovers too and some more adventurous attacking play.

Tuilagi was an important addition and showed how much we missed him, Barritt tackled like a demon and Farrell looks to have a good future ahead. Ashton looks a bit clueless at the moment and Foden wasn't beating the first man very often. He doesn't seem quite as elusive as usual. I thought Morgan started strongly but faded a little.

Onwards and upwards now. Two tough matches against France and Ireland. More of the same and two good performances should set England off with some momentum. One win out of those two games would be a reasonable return for Lancaster.

Well done Wales! A good win. I can't even really complain about the last minute no-try as it was pretty much impossible to judge.

[Gibson]

Cymro,
Beating Ireland and England away, in two tight games, says it all about the mental strength of this Welsh side. Ye should rack up a cricket-score v a changing Italy.
Then, a huge test coming up v France, at The MS. For the SLAM

That, is going to be some game on the last day. I reckon ye will both be chasing the SLAM. Perfect.

Well done btw.

[mystiroakey]

england cant really win this now- because we wont be able to rack up a points difference large enough- even if we beat wales and france beat you lot, therefore i reakon either way wales v france will be the title decider..

[miteyironpaw]

Piffle. We'll put 50 past France.

[Guest]

Cymro,
Beating Ireland and England away, in two tight games, says it all about the mental strength of this Welsh side

Was going to post something along those lines, it really does show how far they have come to grind out wins away from home where they would have imploded a season or two ago.

[Taffineastbourne]

Piffle. We'll put 50 past France.

That will need one hell of a lot of charge-downs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[miteyironpaw]

Hodgson's finger should be better.

[JDizzle]

Not sure why people are moaning that George North throwing the ball out should have been a penalty. If had been given as a penalty, they would have kicked to touch and England would have had a line out 5 metres out, but by not penalising North... Oh wait, an England line out 5 metres out.

Admittedly, it could have been a yellow card but if we are playing that game the English fella who took Warbs down in the line out could easily have been yellow too.

Overall, England were massively improved with Farrell pulling the strings, although if he has one bad game don't everybody jump on him and call him overrated like has happened with Priestland today, and they should have won. But for Wales to win in Twickers whilst not being the best team is huge for them. I can't remember a Welsh team who would have gritted that out today like the one out there. Top effort lads.

[mystiroakey]

Not sure why people are moaning that George North throwing the ball out should have been a penalty. If had been given as a penalty, they would have kicked to touch and England would have had a line out 5 metres out, but by not penalising North... Oh wait, an England line out 5 metres out.

Admittedly, it could have been a yellow card but if we are playing that game the English fella who took Warbs down in the line out could easily have been yellow too.

Overall, England were massively improved with Farrell pulling the strings, although if he has one bad game don't everybody jump on him and call him overrated like has happened with Priestland today, and they should have won. But for Wales to win in Twickers whilst not being the best team is huge for them. I can't remember a Welsh team who would have gritted that out today like the one out there. Top effort lads.

penalty try maybe! anyway not saying it should have been- but it could have been, maybe

[JDizzle]

I think 606v2 would have combusted if Walsh had given a penalty try then!

[samuraidragon]

Both players went for the ball with their finger tips. No penalty, and certainly no card.

[mystiroakey]

i honestly thought it was just a line out- didnt even realise it was a penalty- had two screens on- cricket at the same time- obviusly!!

[Heaf]

sorry - he clearly batted it into touch ... if that wasn't yellow then one of the 4 or 5 penalty offences after that should have been ...

[miteyironpaw]

Both players went for the ball with their finger tips. No penalty, and certainly no card.

Suggest you are seeing what you want to see there. He clearly smacked it into touch. It was a clear penalty, possibly a yellow and by the letter of the law a penalty try was possible.

[HammerofThunor]

I've never seen a penalty try given for it outside of the try zone. Seen a couple in the try zone (Tommy Bowe springs to mind, yellow card and penalty try)

[Guest]

There was no chance it was ever going to be a penalty try, if North knocked it into touch it means Strettle didnt even get a hand to it

[The Welsh Job]

Right, lots of good points being made here and lots of bad. I've been a lurker on here for quite some time and the general fever of the day has me wanting to contribute by 2c.

I don't think Walsh had a particularly bad game, England fans can argue it was a try but having watched the slow-mo reply countless times afterwards it doesn't look like it so I would say... 'inconclusive' is the right call.

Also FYI taking a man out in the air is a sin binning offence, think that some folks might want to consider that before slating Wales for getting binned a lot when England got away with that in the last 10 minutes, they should have been a man down. Even Brian Moore thinks that's a card FFS - and he is a pretty good, if slightly England biased commentator.

Yes Jiffy talked it up too much pre-game, but then that's what he does. It was always going to be a close game, Wales v England usually is (except that time they really gave us a beasting not so long ago). I think that England looked exceptionally good, this was the game they played last 6 nations that won them the tourny and they found it once again today. Nearly stopped Wales in their tracks too but, and the stats agree with me here, as does the scoreline, Wales were the better side today.

No gloating, no needle, we had the edge and it showed. So all the bitching about the calls that didn't go your way look like sour grapes. The best side won, but England showed that next year, and for the rest of the 6N they are a team to be watched. This was the game I wanted to see and I look forward to next year when the England team have had a whole season to play together and gel, it will be a great, great tourny.

Hope you guys enjoyed the game as much as I did. I thought it was all over whenP Priestland got binned but thought we dug deep and deserved then win. That is all.

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