Sam Wants!

First topic message reminder :

Sam Warburton wants his side to be "ruthless" against Italy on Saturday to warn France that Wales are "not messing around" in their 2012 Grand Slam bid.

All I want is for Sam to keep it shut and get on with playing rugby, hardly a day goes by without this young man wanting something!

Many Welsh fans wanted a win against France at the RWC SF but Sam booted that one into touch!

Keep your feet on the ground young man and keep it shut.

And how exactly, because if the refs agree with me, and when I ref thats how I view the breakdown according to my rulebook, I am wrong?

Or maybe you were happy with SA's world cup bid?

mate this is not about the referee, this is about the fact that when you assist someone to tackle an attacking player then you are the tackle assist.

It is not about which jersey he is wearing it is about the fact.


Irrespective of whether a player is getting away with it, it is still a tackle assist, if you can't admit it, then you lose credibility as an objective poster which I though you were.

Secondly, talking about vintage years. We haven't had 4 vintage years because of politics, it is a sensitive point for many South African fans and there is little we can do about it.

However saying there is something wrong with SA rugby if Schalk Burger has won player of the year, shows further evidence that you only watch players wearing a red jumper, if you paid any attnetion to other teams you would be able to notice other nation's players when they have a great tournament.

As I have said, your credibility as an objective poster has taken a knock.

Oh and only a win is good enough in the RWC for us. after all we have been spoilt that way.

Hey look I have to sympathise with you when you talk politics effecting the rugby, try having the bunch of ##### running it as they are the WRU!!!

My point is, he is not the assisting tackler, in the first ruck Falatau completes the tackle then Warbs is first man in, he doesn't have to release anything as he is just playing the ball... Penalty I say and so does the proffesional, how does that make me lose credibility?

I never mentioned his jersey!

And Berger has not been the same player in the last 12 months, due to him partly being ineffective at what his strengths were, the fact that he's been named player of the year says to me that a lot of very talented players in that SA side have underperformed, now for whatever reason I am not 100% sure, but I did see a lot of them playing poorly last season in the Super 15 yet still being picked for the national side, to me it looks like too much loyalty from the selectoers part, but now P diddy is gone maybe that'll change.

Biltong

That second ruck is a much closer call, Warbs is in contact with the tackled player from the start of the tackle to completion, but as he doesn't engage into the tackle, by using his shoulder I think the ref see's him as first man in and not the tackler.

Also by the time the penalty is called there is an argument he should be pinged as he's off his feet still playing the ball...

You Welsh go on and on about how great your players are. Please Chill. Clearly Warbs is good but do you need to say more than that?
If you had a number 7 that had won everything in rugby that there was to be won and had played and lead his team over many years you would be calling him the greatest player of all time. We would call him McCaw - the 2nd best AB 7 ever.

Bluesman mate, come on. Burger is a brilliant player and maybe S.A didnt have a vintage year by their standards but they still beat us and could well have beaten Aus(who soundly beat us and won 3 nations).
Im glad Wales are doing well and we are all being optimistic but at the moment we are still firmly behind the SANZAR. but Warbs is the bull ox.

Warbs is the bread bin. Best player in world rugby and England don't even have a player who could break into a world 22. Maybe they would if they chose not to 'rebuild' every 6 months.

Sorry HERSH but this time i dont get your point. Warburton answered a standard question with a standard answer. No news here.

To me, Sam Warburton (if fit) is a shoe in to lead the Lions. He is a natural leader and a very humble and eloquant speaker. I get more and more impressed with him every time i see him play and be interviewed.

nganboy wrote:You Welsh go on and on about how great your players are. Please Chill. Clearly Warbs is good but do you need to say more than that?
If you had a number 7 that had won everything in rugby that there was to be won and had played and lead his team over many years you would be calling him the greatest player of all time. We would call him McCaw - the 2nd best AB 7 ever.

...and also the 2nd best 7 in the world now, not bad.

nganboy wrote:You Welsh go on and on about how great your players are. Please Chill. Clearly Warbs is good but do you need to say more than that?
If you had a number 7 that had won everything in rugby that there was to be won and had played and lead his team over many years you would be calling him the greatest player of all time. We would call him McCaw - the 2nd best AB 7 ever.

I had no idea that a player had to win everything to be considered a great? Sometimes you do get the odd player that is great in an average side. I have a lot of respect for players like Parisse, who is in an average side and will probably win nothing in his career but i think that he is a great player.

I would like to add as well that i think that Warburton is a great player now and will only get better. He has the makings of being up there with the all time greats thats for sure.

eirebilly wrote:

nganboy wrote:You Welsh go on and on about how great your players are. Please Chill. Clearly Warbs is good but do you need to say more than that?
If you had a number 7 that had won everything in rugby that there was to be won and had played and lead his team over many years you would be calling him the greatest player of all time. We would call him McCaw - the 2nd best AB 7 ever.

I had no idea that a player had to win everything to be considered a great?

Not in Wales, the triple crown and some mildly patronising praise form the global media is fine for that.

How do you compare and judge the best player in a position.

There is Pocock, McCaw, Warburton, Burger, Brussow and a few others.

McCaw is a legend of the All Blacks and world player 3 times
Burger has been around since 2003 and world player of the year once
Pocock is a star
Brussow is a star
Warburton made a name for himself last year.

To discredit any of these players or to attempt to objectively decide who is best is nigh on impossible.

Suffice to say every poster will think his countryman is the best.

All the players you have named there are great biltong. I said that Waburton has the makings of being up there with the all time greats.

I have always prefered the term 'All time greats' as opposed to 'greatest of all time' as i find it almost impossible to compare certain players.

I just dont think that winning everything in the game is a pre-requesit to being considered a great of the game.

Why can't people just appreciate sportsmen for what they are without trying to denigrate others or place them on a pedestal. Some of the plaudits coming out on here show definite signs of obsessive manlove! Take a step back, fine player, no need to get all 'sticky' about it!

Dussatoir still the best 7 for me as he has more of an all round game IMO. Come March 17th perhaps we shall see but lets just acept that all those mentioned above are absolute class with McGaw being the benchmark - Both Dussatoir and Warburton are also very likeable players which is a rare quality

Schalk Burger is beloved all over the rugby globe!

What you think about Burger's globes you keep to yourself Bilt.

Carpe Diem wrote:What you think about Burger's globes you keep to yourself Bilt.

OK.

I dont think anyone can deny that Sam is a great player, of all the great current flankers, Sam has at least gotten parity with all of them when they have played.

Hes still a young guy and has a lot to prove still, but if he can match the best in the world now, once hes gotten more tests under his belt and preassure from other opensides in Wales like Tipuric trying to take his shirt, he'll really start to be a force.

It's not that I dislike Berger he has been a world class player, but right now I don't think you can put him on that list...

Warbs
Duss
Pocock
Brussow

And arguably Mccaw are all of todays top 7's of world rugby, but then 2 years ago I would have had Berger toping that list with Mccaw, who I am sure in a year or so will have dropped off the list.

I don't actually know of anyone who applauds Berger as a player, everyone respected his ability, and didn't want to plat against him but actually like him? I think it's a similar issue to Botha and a few other SA forwards, ferocious opposition but not very likable!

thebluesmancometh wrote:It's not that I dislike Berger he has been a world class player, but right now I don't think you can put him on that list...

Warbs
Duss
Pocock
Brussow

And arguably Mccaw are all of todays top 7's of world rugby, but then 2 years ago I would have had Berger toping that list with Mccaw, who I am sure in a year or so will have dropped off the list.

I don't actually know of anyone who applauds Berger as a player, everyone respected his ability, and didn't want to plat against him but actually like him? I think it's a similar issue to Botha and a few other SA forwards, ferocious opposition but not very likable!

Well, isn't SB injured right now? so he won't be on any list. I liked what I saw from him in the opening game of Super Rugby discipline wise, when he caught the Hurricanes full back in the air and brought him to ground safely when someone else had taken him in the air. That was class sportsmanship.

In my view Dusautoir is a great player, but he fails to be consistent. Someone like Pocock or McCaw are always leading from the front, Dusautoir goes missing for games on end.

Warburton is a class operator too, no doubt about it, but it's far too early to start quoting him in that company I'm afraid. Let's see him win a head to head with Brussouw, Pocock, McCaw or Dusautoir before we start nominating him as the latest Welsh legend ?

Mitey

He's received plaudits after playing against all of those players, and that was in his first international season, he has grown since then, and quoting Stransky 'put Berger into his box' at the world cup.

Why are Wales so hard to love?

1. Because they believe their own hype and get massively ahead of themselves.

How many times do we have to hear about "not mentioning the Grand Slam" from Warburton and co???

Has anyone seen or heard Gatland's most recent comments?

He talks about "our Triple Crown triumph at Twickenham" and then goes on as if he is a Churchill wannabe about Wales players "brimming with ruthless intent"

Wales have a long way to go before they should be quite so loudly triumphant surely to goodness??

thebluesmancometh wrote:Mitey

He's received plaudits after playing against all of those players, and that was in his first international season, he has grown since then, and quoting Stransky 'put Berger into his box' at the world cup.

Reminder: They lost.

Triangulation wrote:Why are Wales so hard to love?

1. Because they believe their own hype and get massively ahead of themselves.

How many times do we have to hear about "not mentioning the Grand Slam" from Warburton and co???

Has anyone seen or heard Gatland's most recent comments?

He talks about "our Triple Crown triumph at Twickenham" and then goes on as if he is a Churchill wannabe about Wales players "brimming with ruthless intent"

Wales have a long way to go before they should be quite so loudly triumphant surely to goodness??

Agreed. I thought we were insufferable when we win. But I'm quite happy to hand over the pompous sanctimonious victors crown to our cousins in the fine country of Wales.

Well we get exited when we see a pool of players of genuine quality who are possible destined for great things. Nothing wrong with that.

Wales players and management don't want to mention the "Grandslam" because like any side who wants to achieve success, its all about the next game and the next game only. Which is what, if you look at the team to play Italy, is exactly the mentality they have, and what every successful team should have.

The Triple Crown at HQ is no mean feat, considering we didn't win there for 24 years until 2008, so it was a pretty big achievement and one us Welsh fans will remember for a long time.

We go on about ruthless intent because, like I said, to be a successful team you need to ruthless and take your chances, al la New Zealand. Its positive to hear that as a Welsh fan.

I agree, they have a very long way to go to be anywhere near the best in the world, let alone top 3. However, this team has only been togeather for a mere 7/8 months and reached the Semi-Finals of a world cup and are set for a grandlsam decider against France. If England, Scotland or Ireland were in this position, and I heard the same comments from their players and management, I would applaud them and say good on them, its what you want your side to hear. I know there are some posters and pundits that do hype up Wales now and again, but you shouldn't take their views as every Welsh fans. It's like me taking every article from the Telegraph and its comments page and applying it to every England fan, although in the case of HERSH and Mitey, they are the exceptions, but apart from that it sounds like sour grapes to me.

martyr_94 wrote:
I agree, they have a very long way to go to be anywhere near the best in the world, let alone top 3. However, this team has only been togeather for a mere 7/8 months and reached the Semi-Finals of a world cup and are set for a grandlsam decider at Twickers.

No they're not.

Triangulation wrote:Why are Wales so hard to love?

1. Because they believe their own hype and get massively ahead of themselves.

How many times do we have to hear about "not mentioning the Grand Slam" from Warburton and co???

Has anyone seen or heard Gatland's most recent comments?

He talks about "our Triple Crown triumph at Twickenham" and then goes on as if he is a Churchill wannabe about Wales players "brimming with ruthless intent"

Wales have a long way to go before they should be quite so loudly triumphant surely to goodness??

Then again we could have just gone out and starred in our own Grand Slam 2012 dvd already

miteyironpaw wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:
I agree, they have a very long way to go to be anywhere near the best in the world, let alone top 3. However, this team has only been togeather for a mere 7/8 months and reached the Semi-Finals of a world cup and are set for a grandlsam decider at Twickers.

No they're not.

Scary sign of the times when the Welsh think Twickenham is home...

miteyironpaw wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:
I agree, they have a very long way to go to be anywhere near the best in the world, let alone top 3. However, this team has only been togeather for a mere 7/8 months and reached the Semi-Finals of a world cup and are set for a grandlsam decider at Twickers.

No they're not.

Good spot mitey

I'd actually quite like to warm to Wales because they play good rugby.

But every time i get close to doing this.....

they start mouthing off about how great they are.

I would like Wales to lift the sights a little and be angry until and unless they beat SH sides.

Mitey

Now just because you were beaten why do you feel the need to change the goalposts, you argued Warburton can't be put in a list of those players without facing those players, he has, and had 2 MOTM performances against Aus and SA, what does that have to do with the final result?

Mate come on keep up or keep out!!

I'm not 100% sure why this 'gloating' tag has been given to us, Gatland is talking his usual game, and the sport psych's have given him a direction in how to get an edge over Italy, when does Gatland not talk this game win or lose???

Aside from a few numpties, I havn't heard much on these boards that isn't repeated by many proffesionals in the game, including members of the English coaching staff and commentary team, in 2 weeks we will find out who is the best team in the NH, the team who finishes top of the 6N, then in the summer we will see how that team (and lesser ones) fair against Sh opposition, then at the end of the year, the best team in the NH will find out if they have broken into the top3/4 sides in the world and maybe get a slightly less competitive group at the 2015 WC.

Whats the problem?

I think a lot of this is tosh. Wales are good-side, and have every chance of getting better. I think they are the best side in this years 6 nations, or at least have been so far.
I don't think it's fair to say they can't crow about their recent victories (I would) because they "haven't beaten SH sides". Give 'em a chance. They might well just do that. If they don't, well....let the WUMMing commence. In the meantime let's just enjoy the rugby!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Mitey

Now just because you were beaten why do you feel the need to change the goalposts, you argued Warburton can't be put in a list of those players without facing those players, he has, and had 2 MOTM performances against Aus and SA, what does that have to do with the final result?

Mate come on keep up or keep out!!

I'm not 100% sure why this 'gloating' tag has been given to us, Gatland is talking his usual game, and the sport psych's have given him a direction in how to get an edge over Italy, when does Gatland not talk this game win or lose???

Aside from a few numpties, I havn't heard much on these boards that isn't repeated by many proffesionals in the game, including members of the English coaching staff and commentary team, in 2 weeks we will find out who is the best team in the NH, the team who finishes top of the 6N, then in the summer we will see how that team (and lesser ones) fair against Sh opposition, then at the end of the year, the best team in the NH will find out if they have broken into the top3/4 sides in the world and maybe get a slightly less competitive group at the 2015 WC.

Whats the problem?

What are you talking about? I just pointed out that Wales will not play a grandslam decider at Twickeham this year.

But for the record:

Dusautoir was part of the team that knocked NZ out of the world cup, played in two finals and was MOTM in a rugby world cup final.

Pocock was in the Australian side that defeated Wales in the RWC, then again at home, he has tasted victory against NZ and South Africa.

McCaw has played 100 tests as part of one of the most successful editions of the most successful teams in rugby history, defeated the Lions, produced a clean sweep of the 3N, followed by the NH grand slam, won a world cup and been IRB player of the year 3 times.

Warburton has, erm, beaten Ireland a couple of times and been red carded 15 minutes into the most important game for Wales since 1987. I said "he was a class act" but more time was needed to see how he develops before you start comparing him to the players above. That's all. I think it's a fair point. I also notice that you didn't mention any of the great English flankers from the '03 era (or since) in your list. Wum-wum-wummery?

nobbled wrote:I think a lot of this is tosh. Wales are good-side, and have every chance of getting better. I think they are the best side in this years 6 nations, or at least have been so far.
I don't think it's fair to say they can't crow about their recent victories (I would) because they "haven't beaten SH sides". Give 'em a chance. They might well just do that. If they don't, well....let the WUMMing commence. In the meantime let's just enjoy the rugby!

Summed up my own feelings perfectly. Well done Sirrah!

Carpe Diem wrote:

nobbled wrote:I think a lot of this is tosh. Wales are good-side, and have every chance of getting better. I think they are the best side in this years 6 nations, or at least have been so far.
I don't think it's fair to say they can't crow about their recent victories (I would) because they "haven't beaten SH sides". Give 'em a chance. They might well just do that. If they don't, well....let the WUMMing commence. In the meantime let's just enjoy the rugby!

Summed up my own feelings perfectly. Well done Sirrah!

Thank god for you guys have a beer

Let's see him win a head to head with Brussouw, Pocock, McCaw or Dusautoir before we start nominating him as the latest Welsh legend ?

But that's just it, you may not like it but Warbs has won individual battles against some on that list already. Definitely outplayed Brussow in New Zealand and arguably (not by everyone's interpretation) came out on top against McCaw and Pocock a year before that.

Personally I'm tired of the procession of current Welsh players being compared here (favourably I might add) to the best players in the equivalent position in the history of rugby.

Contrast that apparently anxious need for affirmation with the more composed and objective view of the average England fan.

Now, last year when it was going great for us, we didn't suddenly start declaring that an English player was the greatest player ever (or was redefining the art of playing his position, or had written the book on the position) on the basis of one performance against a wooden spooner like Italy.

I think everyone here has said well done and been gracious but this rapid need for thrice daily reassurance that you really did win is just childish and tiresome.

Composure guys. Keep a tid on it please.

Knowsit17 wrote:

Let's see him win a head to head with Brussouw, Pocock, McCaw or Dusautoir before we start nominating him as the latest Welsh legend ?

But that's just it, you may not like it but Warbs has won individual battles against some on that list already. Definitely outplayed Brussow in New Zealand and arguably (not by everyone's interpretation) came out on top against McCaw and Pocock a year before that.

Not in the scoreboards interpretation.

FFS man, get a grip. It's starting to sound desperate.

You said win a head-to-head with the players though, not team vs team.

miteyironpaw wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

Let's see him win a head to head with Brussouw, Pocock, McCaw or Dusautoir before we start nominating him as the latest Welsh legend ?

But that's just it, you may not like it but Warbs has won individual battles against some on that list already. Definitely outplayed Brussow in New Zealand and arguably (not by everyone's interpretation) came out on top against McCaw and Pocock a year before that.

Not in the scoreboards interpretation.

FFS man, get a grip. It's starting to sound desperate.

You didn't say win a game, you said win a head to head, which he has

RubyGuby wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote:

nobbled wrote:I think a lot of this is tosh. Wales are good-side, and have every chance of getting better. I think they are the best side in this years 6 nations, or at least have been so far.
I don't think it's fair to say they can't crow about their recent victories (I would) because they "haven't beaten SH sides". Give 'em a chance. They might well just do that. If they don't, well....let the WUMMing commence. In the meantime let's just enjoy the rugby!

Summed up my own feelings perfectly. Well done Sirrah!

Thank god for you guys have a beer

ahhh beer and rugby - Great traditional partnership - like Batman and Robin, Mitey and Hersh, Starsky and Hutch, and Wales and off-side at the ruck

martyr_94 wrote:Well we get exited when we see a pool of players of genuine quality who are possible destined for great things. Nothing wrong with that.

However, this team has only been togeather for a mere 7/8 months and reached the Semi-Finals of a world cup and are set for a grandlsam decider against France.

Agreed nothing wrong with getting axcited about one's team, after all that is why we support our teams.

Just a question to bring some sanity into this thread.

Who did you beat to get to the semi finals?

miteyironpaw wrote:

Contrast that apparently anxious need for affirmation with the more composed and objective view of the average England fan.

Now, last year when it was going great for us, we didn't suddenly start declaring that an English player was the greatest player ever (or was redefining the art of playing his position, or had written the book on the position) on the basis of one performance against a wooden spooner like Italy.

You aren't English at all are you?

Its up to wales to crow when they like of course.

As an England supporter i would crow at all unless we were consistently in the top 3 and beating NZ, AUS and SA until and unless you do that its just hollow bleatings.

Wales would be SO much more impressive if they kept their counsel until after the Aus tour. That is all.

We beat the team that beat Australia that beat South Africa

IronMike wrote:You said win a head-to-head with the players though, not team vs team.

Dearie me. Looks like mitey just did a Clarkson i:e; fall on his own sword. No need to kick dirt in his face when he's down Knowsit... Oh wait, go on then. We'll all join in on the fun and pile on further misery!

RubyGuby wrote:We beat the team that beat Australia that beat South Africa

Who did you beat?

not who got done in by Bryce Lawrence.

See if you can answer the question.