O'Connell & Murray out for rest of 6N

by MunsterMac Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:03 pm

Just announced that Paul O'Connell and Conor Murray are both out for the rest of the 6N.

POC - Damage to his medial collateral ligament and is out for 3 -6 weeks.

Murray - Bruising to his knee joint and is out for 3 - 4 weeks.

By the way the Ulster HC Semi is 5 weeks away.

by skippy Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:05 pm

This does not bode well for us at all. Best for captain?

by **Biltong** Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:07 pm

a real shame O'Connol was having a great six nations

by **rodders** Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:08 pm

Or Kearney... good news for Ulster but bad for Ireland and Munster.

Get well soon lads... POC has been overdoing it anyway, playing like a man possessed.

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:09 pm

I wish them both well but I'm glad that a POCless Ireland will line up against England

by mr_stonelea Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:11 pm

To be honest Murray is lucky to be only out for a few weeks - it looked a lot worse at the time

by brennomac Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:11 pm

TOL and Mike McCarthy called into squad. I'd have brought in Marshall and Tuohy!!!

by skippy Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:12 pm

Kearney is not a bad shout at all. Would be interesting to see how he got on.

by Standulstermen Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:13 pm

Tuohy s already in the squad I think. Would have called up Edward scissorhands before TOL to be honest

by KiaRose Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:14 pm

Standulstermen wrote:Edward scissorhands ???

by **rodders** Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:15 pm

Standulstermen wrote: Would have called up Edward scissorhands before TOL to be honest

!

by MunsterMac Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:16 pm

Tuohy s already in the squad I think. Would have called up Edward scissorhands before TOL to be honest

I'm only smiling on the outside though.

by Triangulation Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:19 pm

Perhaps you could call up Neven Spencccccccccce?

Word on the street is that he's so good he can cover 9 and lock..

Wink

In all seriousness that's a blow and we don't want to see players injured. Even if they're future opponents. We want our best to be tested against your best. That's what a Test Match is supposed to be about.

by MunsterMac Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:22 pm

Would have thought that Best would be the obvious choice as captain.

Reddan will come in for Murray and I'd imagine Ryan will come in for POC although then you have two 4's in the side.

A left field choice could be to put Ferris in the 2nd row and bring O'Mahony or Ryan into the back row.

But that won't happen.

by JmD Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:35 pm

MunsterMac wrote:Would have thought that Best would be the obvious choice as captain.

Reddan will come in for Murray and I'd imagine Ryan will come in for POC although then you have two 4's in the side.

A left field choice could be to put Ferris in the 2nd row and bring O'Mahony or Ryan into the back row.

But that won't happen.

How would Ferris in the second row and Ryan in the back row be any better than Ryan in the second row? Then you have 2 players in positions where they have almost no international experience, but the same personnel on the pitch.

by Red Right Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:41 pm

Best will be captain I imagine. Did he captain an Irish side in a few games before - maybe touring or a WC warm-up, I'm sure he has.

Kearney would not be a bad choice either given his form but I think Best deserves it - also I think it would sit well with him and he wouldn't really get to phased.

Will be interesting to see our lock pairing for Scotland.

by skippy Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:45 pm

I would say our lock pairing would be Doc and Ryan. Dont know how they will get on though. Im starting to get a bad feeling about the Scotland game now. Sad

by Red Right Mon 05 Mar 2012, 5:52 pm

skippy wrote:I would say our lock pairing would be Doc and Ryan. Dont know how they will get on though. Im starting to get a bad feeling about the Scotland game now.

I hear ya Skip!! I don't think these 2 have even played together in the second row at Munster - if they have I don't think they have much game time together. Not the best time to be comming up against Ritchie Gray.

Then again - we could take the positive. Ireland have to go out against the Scots without the 2 stalwarts of the last decade. Its up to the rest to take the game by the scruff of the neck and show what they are about.

by GunsGerms Mon 05 Mar 2012, 6:03 pm

Best will be captain I'd say. He has become such a big player for us. In fact the four Ulster lads Bowe, Ferris, Trimble and Best are really our form players in this championship.

by dublin_dave Mon 05 Mar 2012, 6:12 pm

best needs his throwing to be on the money v scots.

around the park he has been tremendous the last 2/3 seasons. really top class.

by skippy Mon 05 Mar 2012, 6:21 pm

Red Right wrote:
skippy wrote:I would say our lock pairing would be Doc and Ryan. Dont know how they will get on though. Im starting to get a bad feeling about the Scotland game now.

I hear ya Skip!! I don't think these 2 have even played together in the second row at Munster - if they have I don't think they have much game time together. Not the best time to be comming up against Ritchie Gray.

Then again - we could take the positive. Ireland have to go out against the Scots without the 2 stalwarts of the last decade. Its up to the rest to take the game by the scruff of the neck and show what they are about.

It will be a real test of the players resolve all right, It could work out for us, Its time for a few players to stand up and be counted

by yappysnap Mon 05 Mar 2012, 7:04 pm

Could be good for Ireland, you'll need to bring in a new captain one day and now may be as good as any other.

by yappysnap Mon 05 Mar 2012, 7:04 pm

Obviously the injuries are pretty crap though.

by Gibson Mon 05 Mar 2012, 7:11 pm

Best is the obvious choice for Captain. I'd vote for him.

Move Ferris to lock. Then SOB, POM and Heaslip in the backrow. Needs must.

May just work sweetly.

by skippy Mon 05 Mar 2012, 7:15 pm

Yea obviously the injuries are crappy just trying to inject a touch of optimism.

by **Notch** Mon 05 Mar 2012, 7:23 pm

I wouldn't be up for moving Ferris at all. He's been our best forward in the last two games- just let him keep doing what he's doing!

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Mon 05 Mar 2012, 7:51 pm

Irish Buddies,

we have a fair few injury problems too but bummer for O'Connell who is a mighty Captain and player.

by Dontheman Mon 05 Mar 2012, 7:54 pm

Is it the ligaments for POC or a broken heart after so much lack of concentration gave the game back to France. In his post match interview he gave out that a draw was nowhere

by SecretFly Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:01 pm

Dontheman wrote: he gave out that a draw was nowhere

He was right.

His voice was broken from the effort and the distaste of the conclusion. The French were the same though. Both sides sick for their own reasons.

by yappysnap Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:04 pm

I'm sure the irritating interviewer doesn't help in those situations.

Ferris at 6 could work in the short term, Ryan Jones does well switching between the two positions.

Heaslip for captain?

by **RDW** Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:06 pm

MASSIVE boost for Scotland. Obviously don't like seeing such a rugby great injured but this is a massive boost for Scotland.

Suspect Ireland might be lacking leadership and become a bit rudderless if we can put them under pressure.

That is a big if though!

by Gibson Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:07 pm

O Connell is a mighty player. World Class. But not a mighty international Captain. We need someome to take Deccie on and be honest with him. Head-on. POC is one his old boys, he never would.

To do that, it would take Kearney. Deccie wont make him captain in his tenure. Far too much of an individual thinker. He'll pick a thick back instead.

We miss BOD more than even I ever thought we would. And for more reasons than are obvious.

by Gibson Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:11 pm

yappysnap wrote:I'm sure the irritating interviewer doesn't help in those situations.

Ferris at 6 could work in the short term, Ryan Jones does well switching between the two positions.

Heaslip for captain?

Not Captain material. Bit of a messer and needs to concentrate on his game now.

My Captain material and in order of merit is:

1. Kearney
2. Best - He will get it. Should do.
3. Sexton.

by **rodders** Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:16 pm

I agree Gibson, I've been waiting for someone to say it.

O'Connell is an immense player and talisman but as a leader and captain, tactically at this level he's been found wanting.

You need a leader in the backs too who can command the ball, push back on the decisions and make sure the ball is getting cleared quickly when there is an attacking opportunity... to order POC, DOC and Healy away from the 10 channel.

Sexton hasn't delivered leadership in this respect, if anything Reddan has been a general when hes came on.. organising all the carriers.

Kearney has shown leadership but full back isn't a great position for the captain. Hes probably the best option though.

by yappysnap Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:29 pm

Fair enough Gibson, I'd be interested to see either of those boys get it.

It's interesting how for as long as I can remember everyone has agreed that the captains best place is in the forwards but now alot of you are calling out for a back to be made captain. Is this knee jerk or a real sea change in playing styles?

As to fb's as captain, it never seemed to hamper Georden Murphy.

by SecretFly Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:30 pm

You don't need a Captain at all. You need what Ireland always had when that other great non-Captain was captain.

In the noughties, we had Captains, not a single captain. O'Driscoll wasn't a natural at the job anymore than Heaslip would be. We had players communicating with each other, working out what they needed and what they were getting, working on motivation between themselves. Confidence made that system easier but that's the system that works. Captains are the payers who voice concerns an make their opinions known on the field in direct language. It is interesting to see how quiet Sexton is in that regard now - he isn't quiet for Leinster.

Players don't feel in control of this team. They don't feel they are the wheels of the engine. People knock them for not making the right choices. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there are strict quidelines given to the players and they don't cross them.

I think that Paul O'Connell would be a splendid Captain if the Right game blueprint was coached and drilled and drilled and drilled. At the moment, he and his players are at sea...as would Kearney be too if he got the job right now.

by Red Right Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:31 pm

roddersm wrote:I agree Gibson, I've been waiting for someone to say it.

O'Connell is an immense player and talisman but as a leader and captain, tactically at this level he's been found wanting.

You need a leader in the backs too who can command the ball, push back on the decisions and make sure the ball is getting cleared quickly when there is an attacking opportunity... to order POC, DOC and Healy away from the 10 channel.

Sexton hasn't delivered leadership in this respect, if anything Reddan has been a general when hes came on.. organising all the carriers.

Kearney has shown leadership but full back isn't a great position for the captain. Hes probably the best option though.

Personally, I don't think we have had a captain like that for years. BOD & POC are both quite similar to that extent. They are both people who lead more by their actions on the pitch rather than their tactical decision making when the game stops. For Munster POC always has ROG in his ear when making the decisions. Likewise for Leinster, things started to work that little bit better when Cullen took charge of those decisions.

As I said above, I think Best is the most suited. If Sexton can find his zen in a green shirt I think he will be captain, but he will need to find that form - and find it consistently.

by ME-109 Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:37 pm

Best should get it.

Sexton - har har...funniest thing I heard all day.

Might as well give it to O'Mahoney now as he will be Irish Captain eventually and for a long time....

Yeah Rodders I agree about POC. He leads from the front is an immense player and generally does things over and above what is required of him definitely not erm leadership material...I will give you the fact that he has not been great at organising the backs or being great tactically. He does need to be out around the backs slapping Sexton over the head and getting him to play better (i.e like an Outhalf) or getting Darcy to run a dummy run or straighten the line.

Yup he is surely not great...in fact must be one of the worst captains ever...

Stand - didnt Tuohy look underwhelming in the A game against England? Lost his chance.

by ME-109 Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:40 pm

Some Welshpeople need to make up items to deflect from the decisions that have got them three wins instead of 1. ..a bit like all the usual Welsh thuggary that has been ignored down the years.

by Standulstermen Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:42 pm

DOD wrote:Best should get it.

Sexton - har har...funniest thing I heard all day.

Might as well give it to O'Mahoney now as he will be Irish Captain eventually and for a long time....

Yeah Rodders I agree about POC. He leads from the front is an immense player and generally does things over and above what is required of him definitely not erm leadership material...I will give you the fact that he has not been great at organising the backs or being great tactically. He does need to be out around the backs slapping Sexton over the head and getting him to play better (i.e like an Outhalf) or getting Darcy to run a dummy run or straighten the line.

Yup he is surely not great...in fact must be one of the worst captains ever...

Stand - didnt Tuohy look underwhelming in the A game against England? Lost his chance.

No harm DOD but hasnt DOC looked underwhelming any time he has pulled on red or Green this season.... case closed.

by Gibson Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:44 pm

Red Right wrote:
roddersm wrote:I agree Gibson, I've been waiting for someone to say it.

O'Connell is an immense player and talisman but as a leader and captain, tactically at this level he's been found wanting.

You need a leader in the backs too who can command the ball, push back on the decisions and make sure the ball is getting cleared quickly when there is an attacking opportunity... to order POC, DOC and Healy away from the 10 channel.

Sexton hasn't delivered leadership in this respect, if anything Reddan has been a general when hes came on.. organising all the carriers.

Kearney has shown leadership but full back isn't a great position for the captain. Hes probably the best option though.

Personally, I don't think we have had a captain like that for years. BOD & POC are both quite similar to that extent. They are both people who lead more by their actions on the pitch rather than their tactical decision making when the game stops. For Munster POC always has ROG in his ear when making the decisions. Likewise for Leinster, things started to work that little bit better when Cullen took charge of those decisions.

As I said above, I think Best is the most suited. If Sexton can find his zen in a green shirt I think he will be captain, but he will need to find that form - and find it consistently.

Red, Ive yet to see you make a bad post man. All true. And incisive. No Woody, no Willie-John, No Tom Kiernan. Where have all our natural leaders gone?
guinness

Al the best rugby teams in History, had 5 or 6 captains on the field. We look rudderless.

by **rodders** Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:45 pm

I think you are wrong guys...BOD directed everything for years, organised everyone, took charge when things weren't working.

O'Connell did what he does best, lead the pack and called the lineout but ultimately BOD superceeded him and ROG...both of whom are naturally territorial minded, low risk, percentage playing players.

There was a good balance of leadership between BOD, ROG and POC.

What we have now is a conservative coach and a conservative captain yet most of the players are most comfortable playing an attacking high tempo gameplan. Everyone is confused when they have the ball.

by Standulstermen Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:48 pm

Judging from Tuohys tweets he wont be involved. I would advise him to lay off the social networking (not that it was anything ridiculous) but it wont do him any favours.

if he isnt involved though its ridiculous.

by Gibson Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:51 pm

There was Rodders. There was. Both are unavailable. BOD was far more than a Captain and leader for the backs. As is POC for the forwards. BOD organised the rest of the team - in motion. Told them where to go and what to do, in a split second. It is blatantly obvious, we have dipped without his guidance. And we will for a while to come.

I really think it has exposed Kidney as well.

by **rodders** Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:52 pm

What did he say stand?

by Standulstermen Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:54 pm

Just that he was disappointed and wouldnt say what he wanted to as it wouldnt help. And he congratulated Mike mcCarthy. I thought he was in the squad but it appears not.

by SecretFly Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:57 pm

roddersm wrote:
There was a good balance of leadership between BOD, ROG and POC.

That was my point, Rodders. A balance of two or three strong leaders on the field.

O'Driscoll didn't often have the answers either. He bossed when he knew he had attentive ears listening. When the ears didn't listen, he tended to zone out and do what he did best - drive by example or just drive away alone. The more I think about that man the more he truly is a unique beast.

................anyway, back from my introspection; .......................we need a unit of two or three players that can knock out solutions to ongoing problems between them. Take ownership and form links between backs and forwards. People mention leaders and rush past Ferris himself. He's the fire in this side in recent weeks. He should involve himself in barking orders and getting momentum into the minds of lax players.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 05 Mar 2012, 9:00 pm

Ferris seems to be someone who leads more by example than by words though - I don't think I have seen him take command. He really does push the team though when he puts in his massive performances.

by **rodders** Mon 05 Mar 2012, 9:01 pm

Gibson wrote:There was Rodders. There was. Both are unavailable. BOD was far more than a Captain and leader for the backs. As is POC for the forwards. BOD organised the rest of the team - in motion. Told them where to go and what to do, in a split second. It is blatantly obvious, we have dipped without his guidance. And we will for a while to come.

I really think it has exposed Kidney as well.

Yes Gibson we have been found wanting in his absence, as we have in the past. BOD reads the game better than anyone and can think on his feet. He is a great communicator and organiser too. Jamie Roberts says he talks more than any player he'd ever played with.

Leinster are not missing him the same because the team are so well drilled, everyone knows their role and there are clever experienced players like Cullen and Jennings. Reddan and Sexton just direct traffic behind the scrum but ultimately Schmidt is the general.

Kidney is sending a team out with no clear instructions and we don't have the players to take control on the pitch. We look lost at times and only comfortable when we don't have the ball.

Post BOD some guys have really stepped up to the plate and grown as leaders and players, namely Kearney and Ferris, but worryingly some key guys have been found wanting a bit.

by MrsP Mon 05 Mar 2012, 9:03 pm

Paddy Wallace?

He is a great rugby brain and is playing really well at the moment.

Now, if only he hadn't been mismanaged in the Ireland set up he could be pretty useful just now!

by Sponsored content