O'Connell & Murray out for rest of 6N

First topic message reminder :

Just announced that Paul O'Connell and Conor Murray are both out for the rest of the 6N.

POC - Damage to his medial collateral ligament and is out for 3 -6 weeks.

Murray - Bruising to his knee joint and is out for 3 - 4 weeks.

By the way the Ulster HC Semi is 5 weeks away.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Ferris seems to be someone who leads more by example than by words though - I don't think I have seen him take command. He really does push the team though when he puts in his massive performances.

I know...but we need verbals too...and the players who are most involved emotionally and physically in the tempo of games shouldn't be allowing good work to be sullied by other players looking rudderless.

He and Sexton and Kearney should be demanding that things tighten up and that players up their game. Kearney should be shouting to his team mates that ponderously coming to his aid when he does the heroics is not enough. "Get up here..let's continue the attack at speed"..he should be shouting. There isn't enough anger when things are unwinding, more an acceptance that it's another bad day.

SecretFly wrote: People mention leaders and rush past Ferris himself. He's the fire in this side in recent weeks. He should involve himself in barking orders and getting momentum into the minds of lax players.

Ha ha great minds.... I was just thinking of Ferris myself. I always thought of him as a bit of a joker, not really a leader, but he has come back from his last injury a different player...smarter, stronger, more controlled, complete, confident, fearless... he really has grown as a player and person. He and Kearney have really stood out above the rest lately.stretching back to the RWC.....coincidently both returning from long term, and in ferris case career threatening, injury.

Standulstermen wrote:Just that he was disappointed and wouldnt say what he wanted to as it wouldnt help. And he congratulated Mike mcCarthy. I thought he was in the squad but it appears not.

Yeah thought Tuohy wasn't in, thats why I thought McCarthy getting called up was bizarre. McCarthy has had a good season but the mind boggles if he is next in the pecking order.

roddersm wrote:

SecretFly wrote: People mention leaders and rush past Ferris himself. He's the fire in this side in recent weeks. He should involve himself in barking orders and getting momentum into the minds of lax players.

Ha ha great minds.... I was just thinking of Ferris myself. I always thought of him as a bit of a joker, not really a leader, but he has come back from his last injury a different player...smarter, stronger, more controlled, complete, confident, fearless... he really has grown as a player and person. He and Kearney have really stood out above the rest lately.stretching back to the RWC.....coincidently both returning from long term, and in ferris case career threatening, injury.

There was a very revealing interview with Kearney about that a year or so ago when he was still out injured and rehabilitating. He admitted he hadn't taken the opportunities he had been given seriously enough. Whilst out and trying to get fit, he realised how charmed he was to be given the opportunity to play rugby for a career and how selfish he felt he had been by kinda not taking it seriously enough... gliding through, not pushing himself to his limits. He felt he had let himself down and he realised how quickly the ground can be pulled from beneath you through injury. He was vowing even then that if he got back in he'd take it all much more seriously.

Well fair play he has come back better than before....much better...as has Ferris... it says a lot about both of them as players and people.

It wasn't so long ago many people were writing both off. 8 months is a long time in rugby.

SecretFly wrote:

roddersm wrote:

SecretFly wrote: People mention leaders and rush past Ferris himself. He's the fire in this side in recent weeks. He should involve himself in barking orders and getting momentum into the minds of lax players.

Ha ha great minds.... I was just thinking of Ferris myself. I always thought of him as a bit of a joker, not really a leader, but he has come back from his last injury a different player...smarter, stronger, more controlled, complete, confident, fearless... he really has grown as a player and person. He and Kearney have really stood out above the rest lately.stretching back to the RWC.....coincidently both returning from long term, and in ferris case career threatening, injury.

There was a very revealing interview with Kearney about that a year or so ago when he was still out injured and rehabilitating. He admitted he hadn't taken the opportunities he had been given seriously enough. Whilst out and trying to get fit, he realised how charmed he was to be given the opportunity to play rugby for a career and how selfish he felt he had been by kinda not taking it seriously enough... gliding through, not pushing himself to his limits. He felt he had let himself down and he realised how quickly the ground can be pulled from beneath you through injury. He was vowing even then that if he got back in he'd take it all much more seriously.

And it seems to have worked as well. Kearney is on the form of his life at the moment. He has proved all the nay sayers (including myself) who reckoned he could not adapt to the new rulings. I am very happy he has proved me wrong.

It is a shame about O'connel realy, and it is a shame for Ireland, what with losing BOD for the tournament, and now O'Connel aswell. Doesn't look to good for Ireland for the rest of the 6NS.

I do feel for Murry, when he went off i thought he would never walk again.

It realy did look bad, but hope both players make a good recovery.

I didn't even notice POC get injured that I can recall.

Anyone know when he twisted his knee?

MrsP wrote:I didn't even notice POC get injured that I can recall.

Anyone know when he twisted his knee?

I'd say he only realised himself when he came off. I don't think he was thinking of his knee when being interviewed. Sometimes it needs the frustration to die down before you realise you've picked up an injury.

Standulstermen wrote:Tuohy s already in the squad I think. Would have called up Edward scissorhands before TOL to be honest

Been trying not to post on any if the Irish stuff so far till it all calms down but stand that was frickjng hilarious just burst my gut laughing infront of the family.

I didn't see much of the Ireland 'A' game so can't comment on Tuohy's performance there. However I've been really impressed with him this year, he may be just what you need against Scotland.

Really a shame about both injuries, I wish then all the best. It just makes it worse that both players have been playing so well.

I merely pointed out the irony of Murray injuring his knee which is what he used in his attempt to hurt JD2.
Some saddos thought that this was out of order,in truth a lot more than recognised that dropping the knees on a try scorer is not too pleasant.Funny old world.

The big question here is (bearing in mind i havent read through the comments yet) was how long did it take before Gibbo said that Ireland are Phooked?

When did Murray use his knee to attempt to hurt JD2 Taff? I must have missed that.

Standulstermen wrote:Tuohy s already in the squad I think. Would have called up Edward scissorhands before TOL to be honest

I have to say I actually did laugh out loud when I read this.

Dont know.There was too much flak!!

Well personally, i dont remember that Murray did anything to JD2, if he did then it completely passed me by.

That said, Its a nasty injury for Murray to have and i dont believe that its something to make fun of.

He's just upset about what happened, Mrs P.

I sometimes feel like that when a player scores a well deserved try then some late defender slides in to the guy's torso. Luckily, most times they can just get up like nothing happened... but other times. Remember the Qld center, Carozza?... who had his jaw broken by an All Black? That sort of behaviour makes me sick. I can see what both Taff is saying about damage to the kidneys... and your shock regarding Murray injuring his knee/s and there are always 2 sides to an argument.

I'm not sure Taff's saying that Murray deserved to injure his knee. Nobody would wish that - as Billy says above.

As much as we love our game - we can all still get quite heated on occasion. However, I'm sure you and Taff have got into an unnecessary tangle. Best to shake hands and both walk away.

Does that sound reasonable?

I'll just flick on the kettle and remove that tiny moth over there (I'll put him/her outside where there's better foraging options) and await your answer. You are both nice people and it upsets me to see an emotional argument get misconstrued - leading to a flare up.
I've had a few on here too - but it's not worth accusing anyone of anything!

Best be like you always are.
(Gibbo knows what I mean.)

I'm filling up Linebreaker, that was beautiful. Nomination for best Moderator award surely!

Well as an Ulsterman I actually have no complaints with McCarthy in front of Tuohy. McCarthy has impressed me this year and lets be honest Tuohy has even been the best Irish lock at Ulster in the last couple of games. He is not the hardest worker at the breakdown. My beef with the Irish second row is how the hell does DOC start these days.

Without POC our lineout is in trouble.

Boss, I think is in NZ so it was TOL or Marshall. No fan of TOL but lets be honest it is the obvious choice.

Best should captain - I do no see anything that suggest to me Kearney, Sexton, Heaslip or Ferris are ready to take on the mantle.

Lastly wishing an injury on anyone is pathetic - shame on the Welshman

eirebilly wrote:When did Murray use his knee to attempt to hurt JD2 Taff? I must have missed that.

After JD2 scored his try near the posts Murray went in late with his knees.

Carpe Diem wrote: I'm filling up Linebreaker, that was beautiful. Nomination for best Moderator award surely!

Sorry, yeah, that was very sweet, diplomatic and emotive. something I can only aspire to.

Carpe Diem wrote: I'm filling up Linebreaker, that was beautiful. Nomination for best Moderator award surely!

Note the skilful introduction of Gibbo at the end there. He's been such a calming influence on me. And he's really rational too!

The moth was fine by the way. Quite powerful. Safely jettisoned from the 5th floor balcony towards a palm tree and scrubby bushes below.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

eirebilly wrote:When did Murray use his knee to attempt to hurt JD2 Taff? I must have missed that.

After JD2 scored his try near the posts Murray went in late with his knees.

Ok, i did'nt see anything too bad with it at the time but i will rewatch it. I dont mind defenders competeing with the attackers while crossing the line but i really dislike any players sliding in to a player with their knees after a try has been scored. One of my biggest pet hates in rugby and up there with tripping in regards to cowardly play.

Linebreaker wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote: I'm filling up Linebreaker, that was beautiful. Nomination for best Moderator award surely!

Note the skilful introduction of Gibbo at the end there. He's been such a calming influence on me. And he's really rational too!

Sorry breaker, but thos are three words that should never be linked together

Love you Gibbo, really i do

biltongbek wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote: I'm filling up Linebreaker, that was beautiful. Nomination for best Moderator award surely!

Sorry, yeah, that was very sweet, diplomatic and emotive. something I can only aspire to.

You have already exceeded it in the prosaic sense my friend!

biltongbek wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote: I'm filling up Linebreaker, that was beautiful. Nomination for best Moderator award surely!

Sorry, yeah, that was very sweet, diplomatic and emotive. something I can only aspire to.

biltong, look at you, all blue and stuff!

I see Best as the obvious choice but there's a part of me that said give it to Sexton and tell him to do what he does week in week out, just boss the game and take the options you think are best. This fella is inspirational in the changing rooms and for me is a born leader. We all know what he can do, just encourage him to do it in the last 2 games and give him the reins.

Asbo, yep, I am as shocked as you are.

Does anyone know the exact type of injury to O'Connell? I read MCL damage, but only a 6 week recovery. For any player with his age and mileage these small to medium type injuries are always a worry because its harder to recover and the impact from the various niggles really start to add up.

For Ireland I worry more about the loss of his leadership than on the lineout. Always a go-to guy and someone respected everywhere. There are good veteran players in the squad, but this is a huge hole to fill.

Thats a good call Ruby. I remember not that long ago that BOD came out and said something very similar about Sexton so you are in pretty good company

Anyways, what do people think about Sexton leading Ireland?

oohh Gibbo is going to love this debate

Grey,

That is the injury being talked about but POC played the full match with no sign of injury. I can only imagine there has been a very slight strain and he is being protected for Munster's HEC matches?

Not sure though.

MrsP wrote:Grey,

That is the injury being talked about but POC played the full match with no sign of injury. I can only imagine there has been a very slight strain and he is being protected for Munster's HEC matches?

Not sure though.

Hee hee, great conspiricy theory MrsP. POC being protected for Munster to play who?

I think Sexton puts himself under too much pressure as it is. In few years it could be a possibility but not now.

MrsP,
Sounds logical. Thanks. I'm sure he felt it in the match, but once the match adrenaline wore off afterwards the pain flared up more. Hope its minor. He had played a good match.

I think that if Sexton was to be made captain skippy, it would give him a free card to play the way he wants to. Not too sure Deccie will be keen on that.

Mrs P I don't think Munster HEC game would be prioritised above the next two 6N games. O'Connell is Ireland captain and an IRFU player, if he is out then he is injured for sure.

Billy I always felt Sexton could be next captain but I feel that he has enough on his plate. He needs to focus on his place kicking and game management.

I'm beginning to agree with Sin in that his goal kicking is not as good away from home in big games.

Kearney is the best candidate for me. Best like Sexton needs to focus on his own game although he will lead the pack regardless.

I suspect it will be Best or perhaps ROG if he starts.

Kearney as the best candidate for captain? What do you base that on rodders?

Not being rude but that is something that i truely did not expect.

This could be a match where DK decides to put Sexton at 12 and ROG at 10 so we could see ROG as captain?

Rodders,
I don't think MrsP is suggesting O'Connell is being kept out of the 6 Nations just for the Heineken Cup. With the injury, he is done for now. No question. Rather the 3 - 6 week recovery window gives him time for a full recovery before his next big match. Most likely no matches between now and then.

Disagree Geoff. I thought Tuohy was motm on Friday last. One thing I would say aswell is that neither doc nor Ryan call the munster line out and McCarthy is art of a massively shaky one. Ulsters has been bloody brilliant in mullers absence even with kyriacou throwing. he is also the only Irish lock that looks half capable of throwing an offload. It's a poor decision if he isn't involved. McCarthy (who I do rate) is also 32 whilst Tuohy is 26. Given the age profile of our locks it is massively short sighted

As rava said though it suits ulster resting him,

Nah, MrsP is suggesting a conspiracy doc-grey

We need a good conspiracy here, its been a while.

I've just been impressed the way he conducts himself Billy on and off the field. He looks like a natural leader and seems to be well respected.

Early in the French game a scuffle broke out involving Earls and Rougerie, I think, Kearney came in and just calmed everything down...looks a natural.

One mark against him is that full back is not a great position for captain for me as its difficult to influence the game from the back 3.

Yup.

That was what I meant.

Thanks for translating it for me!

Standulstermen wrote:Disagree Geoff. I thought Tuohy was motm on Friday last. One thing I would say aswell is that neither doc nor Ryan call the munster line out and McCarthy is art of a massively shaky one. Ulsters has been bloody brilliant in mullers absence even with kyriacou throwing. he is also the only Irish lock that looks half capable of throwing an offload. It's a poor decision if he isn't involved. McCarthy (who I do rate) is also 32 whilst Tuohy is 26. Given the age profile of our locks it is massively short sighted

As rava said though it suits ulster resting him,

I agree Stand Touhy v McCarthy is no brainer.

I have never really paid that much attention to him in regards to a captaincy role rodders due to being a FB, probably why i feel that your suggestion comes from way out in left field.

He does posess a very calm persona which is required.

If i know Deccie though, he will more than likely select DOC and give him the captaincy...

MrsP wrote:Yup.

That was what I meant.

Thanks for translating it for me!

Fess up MrsP, you want a conspiracy and an excuse for Ulsters upcoming loss

eirebilly wrote:I think that if Sexton was to be made captain skippy, it would give him a free card to play the way he wants to. Not too sure Deccie will be keen on that.

I think you could be right, by the look of things the last thing Kidney wants is something non-conservative. I have conflicting views on Sexton being captain, it could boost his confidence hugely or could have the completely opposite effect and he could buckle under the pressure.
Is it worth a shot though could pay off massively.