FULLBACK - Greatest XV Ever voted by 606v2

First topic message reminder :

606v2 selects the Greatest Rugby XV of all time.

Today’s choice - FULLBACK.

Please play nicely.

It depends what you want from a full-back, which in turn is determined by the era in which he's playing.

For those reasons, I'd put JPR top in the era of defensive fullbacks, although his London Welsh background made him very attack-minded and pretty successful in that respect.

For the same reasons, I'd put Cullen top in the era of attacking fullbacks, although his speed and skills meant he could get across to tackle in defence very well, too.

Shouldnt these be as a Sticky so we can keep track of the ALL TIME team.

Don't worry Major, Steve Walsh has got the glue and he'll collate everything when we've finished

RubyGuby wrote:Serge is the only one who could sprint on the outside overlap run 50 metres, chip over the oncoming defence, catch and dive in the corner - Then run back to his own posts, sit down have a fag and then do it all over again. Naturelllllllllllllllllllll or what

Funny, but that is exactly what i was going to say. I give fat old Serge the edge because he could probably out run anyone, even with a cigarette in his kisser. Absolutely love the images of him sitting on the bench still in uniform after a match sucking on cigarette. All he needed was a beer and a broad to make the picture perfect.

To me, its painfully close between Cullen, Jason Robinson, JPR and Serge. But I don't remember seeing JPR very much, so it is hard for me to include him. I give Serge the nod, but only by a hair.

Go watch JPR on the 71 and 74 Lions tours - absolutely brutal - He is a legend and probably the professional players pick as the world number XV

That Dick Spring wasn't bad

Oh... no question in my mind.

JPR...

His boot, his joining the line running, and above all, his determination that NO ONE crosses his line, no matter what.

Love the comment that Gareth Edwards said... Think it was 74, but the game was nearly over and France hadn't scored. Edwards threw a speculative pass which was intercepted and France ran in a try. JPR went to Edwards and gave him a rollicking for allowing the french to cross "His Line", even though it was no more than a consolation try.

As a fullback, there is no one that can match him (although Blanco comes close, but as said. Blanco wasn't a team player.)

Doesn't sound like JPR was much of a team player from your description to be fair Major.

miteyironpaw wrote:Doesn't sound like JPR was much of a team player from your description to be fair Major.

Just check out the infamous 99 call if you want to see how much of a team player JPR was....

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miteyironpaw wrote:HERSH will these results be post-processed to take into account the stats returned from the "where are you from" thread?

That seemed to reveal that the majority of posters on 606v2 were Welsh. This will inevitably lead to an entire Welsh XV being named through parrochial bias. Unless of course it was your strategy for a super-WUM.

Just wait until you get to the 10 shirt and try to give voters a second option other than Barry John

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HERSH wrote:My decision is final.

So can we take it that the POLL is just a front then, as if you don't like the result you will declare it void.... Is that correct Mr Mugabe

I'm an open honest guy, just like Mr Putin.

The winner will be whoever is top at 4pm.

Mitey does have a small point there mind...

I havn't voted because I couldn't decide between JPR and Cullen, both offer different things and I just can't say hand on heart I beleive one was better than the other!

Go on pick one!

Nah

I've recently read JPR's book so part of my decision might be bias, Cullen was such an exceptional player, but he's just not my JPR so I'll leave it.

HERSH wrote:I'm an open honest guy, just like Mr Putin.

The winner will be whoever is top at 4pm.

Never doubted it...

MajorRoadWorks wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:Doesn't sound like JPR was much of a team player from your description to be fair Major.

Just check out the infamous 99 call if you want to see how much of a team player JPR was....

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How many times per day would you say you have to wipe your keyboard down with Ciff?

JPR should have played on the right wing

How many full bakcs would run 80yds to join in a fight . As Gareth said all the other backs were running away from it except John Peter Rhys Williams.

It's called "discipline" bedfordwelsh. Personally I think they should all have been sent off.

Billy whizz 0 simply the best one on one runner I have ever seen and a safe catch and kick full back

Thats it Folks JPR wins the No15 shirt.

JPR was the best by a mile defence and attack were sublime, Cullen and blanco were great players, wonderful attackers but couldn't defend anywhere near as well as JPR.

His running lines were superb his support play and creating space for others was incredible. His tackling and ball winning were just ferocious and so far unsurpassed.

Blanco was amazing, he couldn't really be bothered, he smoked two packets of fags a day yet had more spatial awareness than the entire Welsh team in the mid 80's.

Glas a du wrote:Blanco was amazing, he couldn't really be bothered, he smoked two packets of fags a day yet had more spatial awareness than the entire Welsh team in the mid 80's.

Two packs of Galoise and he could only manage the odd run in the second half, great natural skills but wasted away with his unhealthy lifestyle.

but as with Best, that was part of his mystique. If he could win the game in the first half, why bother in the second?

I saw Serge on tv when watching the France-Ireland match. He looked like a French Jabba The Hutt.
Blubber oozing everywhere, with a Marmite like consistancy. But the no smoking policy at Stade de France must be driving him nuts.

Blanco, deffinate.

miteyironpaw wrote:It's called "discipline" bedfordwelsh. Personally I think they should all have been sent off.

They should have mitey but then again half the games in those days would never have finished if they had been.

No Balshaw on your list HERSH?

Missed this thread, so late vote for Christian Cullen, one of my all time heroes and I played cricket against him when he was a kid.

Can I just complain a little Hersh that because of the tight timeframe and timezones we poor cousins down South may not have been given a chance to vote. So its a bit more like a NH 606v2 vote.

I note that Cullen is currently ahead of JPR. Not slating JPR at all or Blanco for that matter

Why was there such a short window for voting on this poll? Has the last year's international political events given you a taste for voting irregularities?

The meaningful result would have been achieved by leaving the poll open for 24 hours. You've effectively ruled out the opinion of those in antipodal time zones altogether and limited it to the unemployed and workshy in yours.

Oh well!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:No Balshaw on your list HERSH?

Balshaw?

I am sure glad it is not aprils fools day.

Balshaw has a medal that no Welshman will ever get!

HERSH wrote:Balshaw has a medal that no Welshman will ever get!

I beg to differ, Josh Lewsey's got one too

I said Blanco, because he could work genuine magic. Cullen and JPR are also candidates

Never forget the tackle jpr did on bg williams. Bg had a 20 or so meter straight run at jpr and jpr stopped him dead and never went an inch backwards.
Cullen for me on attack skills alone though. The most balanced effortless runner of the ball.

The independent observers have declard Christian Cullen the official winner of this poll.

JPR was a good player in the amateur era. But lets be honest, by today's standards he wouldn't even get selected for a 2nd division club side's reserves.

We see time and time again players who stand out at club level who just can't foot it with the ferocity and pace of the modern game.

Possibly the thing that made him stand out at the time was his size, which is comparable with that of an average modern full back.

But let's be honest, for starters he played only just over 50 tests. Half the number of some of the modern legends.

Secondly for all the hoo-ha about his "lethal attacking" he only scored half a dozen tries. And lets remember that defences were nowhere near as good as they are now at the time.

The team, in his time won at just over 71%. Hardly the stuff of legends as they are re-imagined now.

I'm afriad it's mostly sentimental twaddle

Mitey your description of JPR Williams just about sums up your rugby knowledge

You mean, accurate and objective then Ruby? Thanks!

Spot on

Telegraph March 7th 2010

JPR Williams – the greatest Lions fullback

When choosing your all-time Lions fullback, one name – or rather three initials – stood head and shoulders above all others: JPR.

Legendary: sporting all-rounder JPR Williams earned 55 caps for Wales and eight for the British Lions Photo: HUW EVANS


By Brendan Gallagher

Some talked about the great points scoring deeds of Gavin Hastings and Andy Irvine. Others praised Neil Jenkins for kicking the 1997 Lions to victory from fullback, while the brilliant counter-attacking of the late Ken Scotland earned an honourable mention is dispatches. But ultimately, when choosing your all-time Lions fullback, one name – or rather three initials – stood head and shoulders above all others: JPR

JPR Williams was the choice of the inaugural Lions Legends Dinner at Lord's on Nov 19 and also Telegraph readers – 70 per cent of you plumped firmly for the great Welshman in our poll last week.

John Peter Rhys Williams was ever present in the two triumphant Test series of legend – 1971 and 1974 – and a player held in as much awe today as he was during his pomp, more than 30 years ago. As Willie John McBride succinctly put it at Lord's last week: "When the opposition put the ball high in the air, I never once gave it a second thought. JPR would always be there; I never remember him once dropping the ball.

Indeed he was but there was much more to JPR than just his courage under the high ball. Nobody has ever tackled with more venom and timing and his deft skills are often underrated. Not only could he storm out of defence using his strength and speed – remember him making that 'wonder try' for Gerald Davies in the Second Test in New Zealand in 1971? – but invariably there was a beautifully weighted pass or well-judged change of direction to complement that raw athleticism.

As you would expect from a former British Junior tennis champion – apparently he was a Borg-like oasis of calm – and indeed an orthopaedic surgeon, JPR knew all about "touch" and angles. He was as aggressive and competitive as hell but he could do all the clever stuff as well.


Sentimental twaddle no doubt

I'm afriad it's mostly sentimental twaddle

Mitey

That just says all I have ever needed to know about you, lets disect this bit by bit for your more accurate humiliation...

JPR was a good player in the amateur era. But lets be honest, by today's standards he wouldn't even get selected for a 2nd division club side's reserves.

You can apply this to ANY player that didn't play proffesional rugby, even the greats in your mind!

We see time and time again players who stand out at club level who just can't foot it with the ferocity and pace of the modern game.

You mean like Robshaw, Corbisiero, Strettle etc...

Possibly the thing that made him stand out at the time was his size, which is comparable with that of an average modern full back.

No it wasn't his size, it was his size, speed, skill, and those hits in defence! If you want to talk size differenciation, you could look at Lomu, and how he would be distinctly average in today's game, most wingers are now faster and much stronger than he was!

But let's be honest, for starters he played only just over 50 tests. Half the number of some of the modern legends.

Some of the modern legends get caps for looking at the shirt, back then you had to earn them, and tests were accounted accordingly. Not to mention his doctoring at the same time as playing.

Secondly for all the hoo-ha about his "lethal attacking" he only scored half a dozen tries. And lets remember that defences were nowhere near as good as they are now at the time.

Defences weren't as strong as they are now, but neither were attacking plays, strike moves, training techniques etc... It was simple 1v1 1v2 1v3 rugby.

The team, in his time won at just over 71%. Hardly the stuff of legends as they are re-imagined now.

Which team is this? Wales or the lions or a combo? Since when does win rate = player ability?



Mate stop humiliating yourself with this twaddle!

Well said Bluesman! 50 caps then would be the equivalent of well over 100 these days.

Perhaps it is unfair to compare players of different era's with each other in the first place.

To make a list of "best ever" is subjective at best. Often the country with the most posters will get their player voted in based on sheer number of votes.

The professional era and the amateur era is far removed from one another, it is impossible to compare a player being paid to play rugby, in an era where statistical analysis and video analysis is used to an era where virtually no analysis of the opponent was done.

You are also comparing an era where game plans, substitutions and complex laws have changed the face of the game from where once it was individual talent, little gym work, part time training and pure ability that made a player great.

The other important thing is players of yester year become fabled for moments of brilliance as we forget the poor moments they had, so live they on in our memories with only the good being vividly recounted, and hence it once again become susceptable to fabled perception rather than reality.

Its just a bit of fun!