Le Crunch - EvF thread

[Portnoy]

France: Team: 15-Clement Poitrenaud, 14-Vincent Clerc, 13-Aurelien
Rougerie, 12-Wesley Fofana, 11-Julien Malzieu, 10-Lionel
Beauxis, 9-Julien Dupuy, 8-Imanol Harinordoquy, 7-Julien
Bonnaire, 6-Thierry Dusautoir (captain), 5-Yoann Maestri,
4-Pascal Pape, 3-Nicolas Mas, 2-Dimitri Szarzewski,
1-Jean-Baptiste Poux.
Replacements: 16-William Servat, 17-Vincent Debaty,
18-Lionel Nallet, 19-Louis Picamoles, 20-Morgan Parra,
21-Francois Trinh-Duc, 22-Maxime Mermoz



ESPN quote "
Morgan Parra and Francois Trinh-Duc have been axed for France's Six Nations clash with England in Paris on Sunday.



The halfbacks have been rotated out by Philippe Saint-Andre following last weekend's 17-17 draw with Ireland, a result that ended their hopes of a possible Grand Slam decider against Wales in the final round"


England:

Ben Foden; Chris Ashton, Manu Tuilagi, Brad Barritt, David
Strettle; Owen Farrell, Lee Dickson; Alex Corbisiero, Dylan Hartley, Dan
Cole; Mouritz Botha, Geoff Parling; Tom Croft, Chris Robshaw, Ben
Morgan.


Replacements: Rob Webber, Matt Stevens, Tom Palmer, Phil Dowson, Ben Youngs, Charlie Hodgson, Mike Brown.

As expected, England unchanged.



ESPN quote "
Morgan Parra and Francois Trinh-Duc have been axed for France's Six Nations clash with England in Paris on Sunday.



The halfbacks have been rotated out by Philippe Saint-Andre following last weekend's 17-17 draw with Ireland, a result that ended their hopes of a possible Grand Slam decider against Wales in the final round"

[RubyGuby]

I think Rougerie is lucky to be in there and is very much living on reputation at international level. Would not have dropped Parra. The forward bench on the weekend rescued France so a bit surprised to see no changes there - still a strong side though

[Triangulation]

WIth France dropping Parra and not selecting Yachvilli (aka the butcher of the English) and us not having Flood in the 22 neither side has selected their best 22. Beaxis is boring is he not?

Could be in for a real snooozefest of a game. Disappointing.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Ruby,
I think hes seen as bringing out the best in Fofana. You certainly cant argue with the try scoring record of that combination so far in internationals....


Surpised to see the half backs dropped, but it seems to be a French thing to chop and change these every time theres a dodgy result. I still see no reason to suspect that they wont walk all over England.

[RubyGuby]

If he's there to help Fofana then there's merit in it but talking to Serge Betsen after the game he is not impressed with Rougerie and thinks he's past it at this level.

[Portnoy]

The half-back combination issue is as big an issue in France apparently as it is in England. The difference being that you don't drop half of one of those combinations according to PSA.

[LondonTiger]

WIth France dropping Parra and not selecting Yachvilli (aka the butcher of the English) and us not having Flood in the 22 neither side has selected their best 22. Beaxis is boring is he not?

Could be in for a real snooozefest of a game. Disappointing.

Yachvilli is still injured I think. Dupuy is a decent enough SH - certainly better than Dickson and the currently out of form Youngs. Parra is better though. Selection of Beauxis (sp?) seems odd. As a player he has always struck me as being like Dan Biggar on Prozac.

I still fear we are going to get absolutely slaughtered - and wonder if we can create any try scoring opportunities that do not revolve around charge downs?

[RubyGuby]

If anyone charges down Beauxis it will take their head off - the guy has a boot bigger than Steyne

Strange but I can see France using the boot a lot which should please Foden.

[Geordie]

WIth France dropping Parra and not selecting Yachvilli (aka the butcher of the English) and us not having Flood in the 22 neither side has selected their best 22. Beaxis is boring is he not?

Could be in for a real snooozefest of a game. Disappointing.

We'll be well suited for it then...and should get a nice little W.

[eirebilly]

Surely dropping Parra is a mistake?

LB has a massive boot on him but thats about it really.

Has this been confirmed?

[Triangulation]

WIth France dropping Parra and not selecting Yachvilli (aka the butcher of the English) and us not having Flood in the 22 neither side has selected their best 22. Beaxis is boring is he not?

Could be in for a real snooozefest of a game. Disappointing.

We'll be well suited for it then...and should get a nice little W.

Actually lads, i just took another look at the French side and their bench is POWERFULL. Whereas ours almost as a unit handed the game to Wales the other day.......

I only hope (and dream) that were so far in front by 60min mark that the French bench cannot claw it back!!!

[RubyGuby]

has PSA been getting advice from Lievremond

[HERSH]

That team should hold no fear for England, the way we play will frustrate the crowd, if (and its a big if) we keep our disapline and keep our heads we can win this one.

[rodders]

I think England will batter France to be honest. They were there for the taking against Ireland and Scotland, just both lacked the composure and belief to put them away.

Tuilagi will give Rougerie and the vastly overrated Fofana all sorts of trouble and if England can keep the tempo high then they'll be out on their feet.

The only area of concern would be the scrum and breakdown.

England by 5-12 points.

[LondonTiger]

England by 5-12 points.

i cannot see us scoring tries - so that will mean a lot of penalties kicked for a 12pt margin.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Since when did Rodders become a WUM?

[rodders]

I'm being serious guys, get down to paddy power..... you heard it here first....

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

All that aside if England somehow do pull it off against France Ill eat my hat, even though I dont own one, and proclaim Lancaster the jammiest greatest temporary head coach in rugby history and jump fully onboard his runaway bandwagon then slag off the RFU when they employ Mallet anway.

[majesticimperialman]

That does not look a bad team, a bit suprised to see that they have dropped Para to be honest.

[majesticimperialman]

That does not look a bad team, a bit suprised to see that they have dropped Para to be honest.

[A World Cup and 3 Finals]

It's a must win for England, the team needs momentum which has been slowly increasing despite the narrow loss to Wales and must continue by taking the French scalp in Paris. At last the England team resembles what a lot of England fans have been crying out for, so it's time for potential to tanslate into reality. England be 8 for me and the chariot will roll on.

BTW, although seeing Flood return to his club is difficult, a bit more game time will do him good. Aslo how caould you drop Hodgson after his tries for England and performance for Sarries at the weekend?

[thebluesmancometh]

Like the Welsh, the French have come through 2 games against 'stiff opposition', allbeit with a draw, but then again Wales could quite easily have lost one and drawn too.

I think the dropping of the halfbacks favours England, Parra and Trin duc would really have relished the challenge against Dickson and Farell who in all honesty are a yard behind Murray and Sexton, Sexton by the way had the defensive performance of his life, and single handedly stiffled the French half back pairing.

I don't think Dupuy and Beaxis will offer the same running threat, but what they will do is look to pepper the 10 channell with Rougerie and Fofana, thats going to be a test of Farells abilities, as I'm sure it will be Preistlands next week!

I would take it as a mark of respect that they have done this, I thought they would allow Parra and Trin Duc this game to play themselves back into form, especially knowing the real Le Crunch is a week later!

All that said they have been talking about playing 4 in 4 weeks, could this be a trick to lull the Welsh and have Parra and Trin Duc fit and firing for the Welsh!

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

It's a must win for England, the team needs momentum which has been slowly increasing despite the narrow loss to Wales and must continue by taking the French scalp in Paris. At last the England team resembles what a lot of England fans have been crying out for, so it's time for potential to tanslate into reality. England be 8 for me and the chariot will roll on.

BTW, although seeing Flood return to his club is difficult, a bit more game time will do him good. Aslo how caould you drop Hodgson after his tries for England and performance for Sarries at the weekend?

Again ...its Flood whos been dropped, Hodgson has been recalled.
Flood has a far better try scoring record for England than Hodgson, and also played well at the weekend. Hes also a better player.

Have England fans been crying out for a side lacking in adventurous halfbacks and a limited attacking gameplan? I thought the exact opposite had been the case.

[thebluesmancometh]

Peter

What the English crowd, and SL needs is a victory, in any which way shape or form. From a neutral perspective I think SL is doing a good job, but if he ends the tourny with 2 tries, and only wins against Scotland and Italy, although it would be about where England are right now he will lose the place to someone else.

I always thought it was part of the reason MJ never stood a chance, constantly having to provide victories, and never really having the chance to rebuild!

[whocares]

Yachvili is not injured - in fact he's currently on fire and has saved Biarritz last weekend again - without him they would go down without a doubt. that's how important he is. so why he is not selected : coincidence (he was injured before the original irish game and PSA thought it wasnt nice for Dupuy to be dropped without even playing) or politics (Blanco pulling some strings again)? we do like controversy here.

half backs : Parra was deemed too slow in getting the ball out against Ireland although I think this is more down to Irish players slowing down the ball
Trinh-Duc lacks composure and his choices are not always clever - that said with ball in hand he's miles ahead of big boot beauxis.
Playing a new half back combo is quite dangerous but at least they both played together in Stade Francais.

Everybody but PSA seem to agree that Rougerie had 2 poor games - I think this is last chance to shine . I'd rather have Fritz called in. Mermoz on the bench did not have game time for ages so not sure what he's worth really.

Also Harinordoquy is far from his best should have been dropped with Picamoles at 8 (they dont need a very mobile backrow againt england anyway while Picamoles power and offloads would have been helpfulls) Debaty is really an impact player and Szarzewsky deserve to start after showing some improvement vs ireland.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Bluesman,

Yeah I agree to some extent. I do think the expectations of England fanss have finaly come down a level to relaism. The " must win 3 of these Ais" days are gone.
Theres only a few people who seem to think or expect England to win this game, most of us are quite realistic that regardless of hwo he picked and how he coached a win is pretty unlikley (despite the world cup team having outplayed France for most of the game and having come very close last time they layed France away in the 6 nations)
The issue is that Hodgosns selection seems a retrograde step, and against what Lancaster is supposed to stand for. Its conservatism, and rejection of the better attacking player. Its also a faliure to address a continuing faliure of England, to have halfbacks who offer an attacking threat and creat spaces that enable the centers to be more than battering rams.
It seems that Lancaster is more concerned with building a conservative England that can keep games tight and nick the odd win than one that can actually take on the big NH teams as equals.

As you say if he doesnt deliver a win or at least some tries in good losses then he will lose his job ( although it was claimed theyd announce between this weekend and next who gets it as the RFU want it based on plans and potential not results now) or at leats the sympathy of the fans and press.
I dont really care if England lose this, I expect them to. What concerns me is that hes taking them in a Saracens direction and losing some of Englands best players along the way.

[miteyironpaw]

I think England will batter France to be honest. They were there for the taking against Ireland and Scotland, just both lacked the composure and belief to put them away.

Tuilagi will give Rougerie and the vastly overrated Fofana all sorts of trouble and if England can keep the tempo high then they'll be out on their feet.

The only area of concern would be the scrum and breakdown.

England by 5-12 points.

I agree roddersm. France have shown time and time again that they are susceptible to a mid-field power game. Which is lucky, because that's about all we're up to at the moment in the way of attacking structures. I think the rotation of the 9/10 axis for France is largely about trying to shure up the porous defense in that area. This is the channel that Tonga ruthlessly exposed in the pool, the area NZ neglected in the final when Cruden and Donald didn't have the same at the line vision as Carter or Moa/Morath and indeed where Ireland looked most threatening last week.

[munkian]

That does not look a bad team, a bit suprised to see that they have dropped Para to be honest.

Red card ? Or was he let down 'safely' ?

[thebluesmancometh]

A sarries direction that won England a world cup mind...

Maybe he's trying to work to a winning formula, or maybe the pressure of a results based business is getting to him?

I actually think he is showing a little more nous than people are giving him credit for, remember of a few years ago Gatland were leading Wales to one hell of a losing streak, playing the SH teams over and over, yet in every one of those game they were losing by less than a score, the mentality being you have to be in it ti win it, and by the last quarter you have to be in touch.

England did this V Wales, and when teams are within a score in the last 20 things get nervous, and tense. Anything can happen, it would be a complete different story had Strettle grounded the ball and the youngest English team to play in a 6N of all time hade just drawn with the WC semi finalists, hype is created, players have their chest out, and mindsets begin to alter.

I expect England to do exactly the same thing, lose by less than 7 but to be in it to win it come the last 10.

[Triangulation]

How on earth can England win this one?

All of the form indicators suggest a French win in the scrum with Corbisiero unlikely to be able to handle Mas and Stevens not exactly tearing it up!

All of the form indicators suggest a French win in the lineout. Bonnaire and Harinordoquy are excellent in this department as is their second row pairing.

Restarts - Bonnaire and Harinordoquy are superb in the air as is Rougerie. I think we'll come off second best.

The French seem to have anticipated this and are looking to pin us back in the corners and play from there with Beauxis selected for the job with his siege gun boot.

The French back row with the brilliant Dusatoir will best us at the all important breakdown.

Then even IF we make it to the 50-60 minute mark with the scoreline somewhere approaching respectable…the French can unleash a bench that is arguably better than their starters!

Trinh Duc and Parra
Picamoles - a very powerful and dynamic runner at tired legs
Servat - a truck of a player!

Mermoz - dangerous runner

Our bench are pants and virtually cost us the game vs Wales coming on as they did and conceding possession (Lawes!) and penalties (Stevens) with inaccurate passing (Youngs).

France 27 England 9

[thebluesmancometh]

If the only problem is the scrum or breakdown then no problem man, quick ball is easily generated without these elements functioning... What are you worried about?!

[thebluesmancometh]

Triangulation

You are spot on mate, but it almost never works like that.

France by less than a score I think.

[ChequeredJersey]

England by 5-12 points.

i cannot see us scoring tries - so that will mean a lot of penalties kicked for a 12pt margin.

And France aren't conceding many penalties...

[LondonTiger]

We, myself included, may be being harsh on SL and the squad.

Two years ago England ran close in Paris - but never looked like winning I felt. A lot was made of how close we came to denying France a GS, of Foden's performance and if only Ashton had not kicked.

however the biggest selection decision were Worsley and Tindall. Both brought in to try and negate France. Johnson received a lot of praise (plus criticism for taking tindall off). But should he. In honesty England went out with the game plan of achieving a respectable defeat.

That is what I feel about where we are now. Scotland and Italy's failings gifted us two battling wins. Against Wales we went in with the attitude that we had to minimise the scale of the defeat. After Wales blistering start - where again Englands opposition butchered the chances to score - we were more than a match for the probable champions. A draw would not have been an unfair result - yet we never really looked as if we knew how to try and win.

And that is my fear - it is all well and good to say you have to at least be close going into the last 10 minutes - but I feel that our ambition is to keep it close at the end.

I want more than an ambition to only lose by a little bit.

This is not about the players selected - frankly I feel the quality in the AP is dire - as they are generally the best we have available. Just I cannot see a gameplan designed to win matches.

[miteyironpaw]

Well triangle

Firstly, France are fickle and after playing well in the second half last week and underestimating us entirely we'll rip them open early, silence their supporters and give them a day to forget.

Secondly, changes in the 9/10 invariaby upset any team's rythym, so they'll be vulnerable on defence and unable to chances when they appear early on.

Thirdly, our lineout is functioning competently, we won't be a walk over.

Fourthly, after a bit of a tune up in the scrum in recent weeks, the guys will be busting to prove themselves.

Fifth, after smarting from an undeserved loss to Wales in such controversial circumstances our backs will have all the motivation to show their class.

Sixth, we've had no luck and deserve some.

Seventh, I have a feeling.

Eighth, It sets the competition up brilliantly for the final week if England win here.

Ninth, we're England.

Tenth, Have some faith man. We came close in the RWC, and should have beaten Wales, so it will be close anyway. Why not us to win?

[Triangulation]

Triangulation

You are spot on mate, but it almost never works like that.

France by less than a score I think.

Sometimes it doesn't work out like that but i have a nasty feeling about this one. A nasty feeling. What illogical intangibles should we be hanging on to bluesman???

1. France cannot win the Slam so maybe wont turn up?
2. France did not lose last week so there should not be a backlash?

[nobbled]

If the French passing is as woeful as last game we have a chance. We stand more chance of scoring tries against France than we did against Wales in my opinion. The line-out is probably 50-50, but the scrum really worries me though.

[miteyironpaw]

Don't be jessies. We'll win. We're overdue a good performance and we know we've got the players to match anyone.

We really started to go through the gears last week, and were dominating the game in the last 20 minutes - Wales hanging on using all their experience with 4 consecutive professional fouls. There's no reason to expect there won't be at least a similar step up this week to the one we saw last week.

Lancaster has said he's been targeting this game in the 6N as the one to really show what England can do. So we should see something special.

This could be a performance to really herald in the new generation England...

[ChequeredJersey]

People are scared of the talent in this French team, and with good reason, but as much as us they frankly haven't turned up to any of their games. They relied on individual brilliance against Scotland, drew against Ireland because Ireland's lack of composure meant they had a horrible second half and struggled, as we did, against Italy for most of a match in France on a good rugby playing pitch. They are not great. I'd say they are favourites, but if we can come close to beating Wales (and we did) we can certainly beat this French side. Their line-out was excellent in their last match but poor previous to that. As others have said we need to use Barritt and Tuilagi to batter their midfield- Fofana may be a wonderful attacker (sometimes, he has looked aimless in most of the 6N but can sharpen up for score wonderful tries) but he looks vulnerable in defence, and Poitrenaud is definitely an attacking, not defensive, fullback. We nned to attack France, be brutal that's what Ireland did effectively in their first half

[Triangulation]

We, myself included, may be being harsh on SL and the squad.

Two years ago England ran close in Paris - but never looked like winning I felt. A lot was made of how close we came to denying France a GS, of Foden's performance and if only Ashton had not kicked.

however the biggest selection decision were Worsley and Tindall. Both brought in to try and negate France. Johnson received a lot of praise (plus criticism for taking tindall off). But should he. In honesty England went out with the game plan of achieving a respectable defeat.

That is what I feel about where we are now. Scotland and Italy's failings gifted us two battling wins. Against Wales we went in with the attitude that we had to minimise the scale of the defeat. After Wales blistering start - where again Englands opposition butchered the chances to score - we were more than a match for the probable champions. A draw would not have been an unfair result - yet we never really looked as if we knew how to try and win.

And that is my fear - it is all well and good to say you have to at least be close going into the last 10 minutes - but I feel that our ambition is to keep it close at the end.

I want more than an ambition to only lose by a little bit.

This is not about the players selected - frankly I feel the quality in the AP is dire - as they are generally the best we have available. Just I cannot see a gameplan designed to win matches.

Correct on all counts.

The AP is pants.

England is the end product of the AP.

And we have coach with limited experience doing best he can to not lose by too much.

France has too much quality in their ranks. Bags of it right through their 22.

We're feckered.

[majesticimperialman]

Both teams France and England have not realy sparkled at all in this years 6ns, But France do/did seem to look a little more dagerous with Para in the team.

Although Flood did play well last week for Leciseter Tigers, it would be totaly unfair on Charlie Hogdson if Flood have been give the go ahead in stead of him.

This is a must win game for both teams, so i am expecting a cracker of a game.

[ChequeredJersey]

We, myself included, may be being harsh on SL and the squad.

Two years ago England ran close in Paris - but never looked like winning I felt. A lot was made of how close we came to denying France a GS, of Foden's performance and if only Ashton had not kicked.

however the biggest selection decision were Worsley and Tindall. Both brought in to try and negate France. Johnson received a lot of praise (plus criticism for taking tindall off). But should he. In honesty England went out with the game plan of achieving a respectable defeat.

That is what I feel about where we are now. Scotland and Italy's failings gifted us two battling wins. Against Wales we went in with the attitude that we had to minimise the scale of the defeat. After Wales blistering start - where again Englands opposition butchered the chances to score - we were more than a match for the probable champions. A draw would not have been an unfair result - yet we never really looked as if we knew how to try and win.

And that is my fear - it is all well and good to say you have to at least be close going into the last 10 minutes - but I feel that our ambition is to keep it close at the end.

I want more than an ambition to only lose by a little bit.

This is not about the players selected - frankly I feel the quality in the AP is dire - as they are generally the best we have available. Just I cannot see a gameplan designed to win matches.

Correct on all counts.

The AP is pants.

England is the end product of the AP.

And we have coach with limited experience doing best he can to not lose by too much.

France has too much quality in their ranks. Bags of it right through their 22.

We're feckered.

They have a lot of quality but I'm seeing form similar to ours (i.e. subpar)

[thebluesmancometh]

Triangulation

I'd hold out faith, the lineout is going ok, and there is no reason to think that Englands defencive linespeed won't be able to cope with Dupuy's and Beaxis speed of pass (or thought).

You have just had your top try scorer returned to you, and... er... um...

Like Mitey said, you won massively impressively in Scotland and Italy, and dominated a WC Welsh side for the last 10 minutes, in which you probably should've scored 3 tries if it wasn't for those dagnam Welsh defenders


Keep the faith, anything can happen, England are never mugs to play against and will definately be up for this game, France on the other hand have just dropped/rested their halfback pairing and may have one eye on Wales next week.

[Triangulation]

I WILL NOT KEEP THE FAITH DAMMIT.

IF WERE GOING TO LOSE ANYWAY THEN LETS SELECT A HELLFIRE TEAM OF FORM THRUSTERS AND TAKE THE FRENCH TO PLACES THEY DO NOT WANT TO GO.

REMEMBER GERAGHTY' S TRY......

[RubyGuby]

I think you have a point Triangulation but you are not allowed to take them to Cardiff

[Triangulation]

I think you have a point Triangulation but you are not allowed to take them to Cardiff

ha ha yes good one rubgubbler ha ha oooh too much!

You'd better pray that France do beat England because if not they'll come to Cardiff with a Welsh azzzkicking in mind and you'll all have tonnes of egg on your faces after all the crowing that has been going on.

[Triangulation]

rubbergobbler

[Triangulation]

[thebluesmancometh]

You do have a point, but it is a very niaive one, todays game is built around containment, avoiding mistakes, and taking chances!

Which HELLFIRE team would you pick? And do you really wat to go to Paris and try out a totally untried, untested team who have nothing but club representation to fall back on when the going gets tough?!

[eirebilly]

As was the case for Ireland, England have a very good chance of beating France.

They have not looked that good at all and England will not be overawed. France are there for the taking and this is a big chance for England. I honestly hope that they do beat the French.

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