Le Crunch - EvF thread

[Portnoy]

First topic message reminder :

France: Team: 15-Clement Poitrenaud, 14-Vincent Clerc, 13-Aurelien
Rougerie, 12-Wesley Fofana, 11-Julien Malzieu, 10-Lionel
Beauxis, 9-Julien Dupuy, 8-Imanol Harinordoquy, 7-Julien
Bonnaire, 6-Thierry Dusautoir (captain), 5-Yoann Maestri,
4-Pascal Pape, 3-Nicolas Mas, 2-Dimitri Szarzewski,
1-Jean-Baptiste Poux.
Replacements: 16-William Servat, 17-Vincent Debaty,
18-Lionel Nallet, 19-Louis Picamoles, 20-Morgan Parra,
21-Francois Trinh-Duc, 22-Maxime Mermoz



ESPN quote "
Morgan Parra and Francois Trinh-Duc have been axed for France's Six Nations clash with England in Paris on Sunday.



The halfbacks have been rotated out by Philippe Saint-Andre following last weekend's 17-17 draw with Ireland, a result that ended their hopes of a possible Grand Slam decider against Wales in the final round"


England:

Ben Foden; Chris Ashton, Manu Tuilagi, Brad Barritt, David
Strettle; Owen Farrell, Lee Dickson; Alex Corbisiero, Dylan Hartley, Dan
Cole; Mouritz Botha, Geoff Parling; Tom Croft, Chris Robshaw, Ben
Morgan.


Replacements: Rob Webber, Matt Stevens, Tom Palmer, Phil Dowson, Ben Youngs, Charlie Hodgson, Mike Brown.

As expected, England unchanged.



ESPN quote "
Morgan Parra and Francois Trinh-Duc have been axed for France's Six Nations clash with England in Paris on Sunday.



The halfbacks have been rotated out by Philippe Saint-Andre following last weekend's 17-17 draw with Ireland, a result that ended their hopes of a possible Grand Slam decider against Wales in the final round"

[miteyironpaw]

I WILL NOT KEEP THE FAITH DAMMIT.

IF WERE GOING TO LOSE ANYWAY THEN LETS SELECT A HELLFIRE TEAM OF FORM THRUSTERS AND TAKE THE FRENCH TO PLACES THEY DO NOT WANT TO GO.

REMEMBER GERAGHTY' S TRY......

Calm down there fella, you'll give yourself a coronary. England will win. No faith required. Time will pass and it will be so. All you have to do is relax, find a comfy seat and enjoy.

[thebluesmancometh]

There goes the thread...

[stlowe]

Flood has a far better try scoring record for England than Hodgson

That's not true.

Hodgson has played 38 tests, scoring a total of 269 points; 8 tries, 44 conversions (ergo presiding over 44 tries), 44 penalties & 3 drop goals.

Flood has played more tests, 47, but scored only 223 points; 3 tries, 32 conversions, 47 penalties & 1 drop goal.


http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/player/13753.html

http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/player/15414.html

[miteyironpaw]

Bring back Hodgson! Let's get our successful charge down game going!

If Hodgson had played against Wales, we would've converted that charge down, even though Priestland was cheating. Then we'd be looking at a grandslam right now. Lancaster's one mistake.

[RubyGuby]

Triang - Can you show me the crowing that's been going on - I really don't see any crowing - there's fans pleased that we're 3 from 3 and quite a few responses to anglo wumming but I don't see much crowing. One welsh poster has even posed the question "can we break into the top 4" - When you think about it, that's hardly crowing is it

[nobbled]

Triang - Can you show me the crowing that's been going on - I really don't see any crowing - there's fans pleased that we're 3 from 3 and quite a few responses to anglo wumming but I don't see much crowing. One welsh poster has even posed the question "can we break into the top 4" - When you think about it, that's hardly crowing is it

If you haven't been crowing - do it now! C'mon! You've a good team, doing well, look like they'll keep getting better, beat Ireland and England in their own backyards - dammit man, if it was England I'd be crowing - don't let anyone spoil your enjoyment of a good run! It might be short-lived or go great guns, but enjoy it while you can!

[Triangulation]

You do have a point, but it is a very niaive one, todays game is built around containment, avoiding mistakes, and taking chances!

Which HELLFIRE team would you pick? And do you really wat to go to Paris and try out a totally untried, untested team who have nothing but club representation to fall back on when the going gets tough?!

Bluesman you have thrown down your gauntlet after slapping me round the chops with it.

I pick it up.

My Hellfire team to stick 2 fingers up at France and the rugby world...

Sheridan
Hartley
Cole
Garvey
Attwood
Robshaw ( c)
S.Armitage ( Sod the foreign soil rule. He is playing exceptionally well at 7. That is as exceptional as it gets!)
Morgan
Dickson
36 ( a running threat at 10 is required)
Barrit
Tuilagi
Wade
Ashton
Foden

[ChequeredJersey]

I think with a few very inflammatory exceptions the Welsh fans here have been realistic and within the bounds of politeness given their performances. There are some MAJOR exceptions, but I'm sure the same applies to English fans

[ChequeredJersey]

You do have a point, but it is a very niaive one, todays game is built around containment, avoiding mistakes, and taking chances!

Which HELLFIRE team would you pick? And do you really wat to go to Paris and try out a totally untried, untested team who have nothing but club representation to fall back on when the going gets tough?!

Bluesman you have thrown down your gauntlet after slapping me round the chops with it.

I pick it up.

My Hellfire team to stick 2 fingers up at France and the rugby world...

Sheridan
Hartley
Cole
Garvey
Attwood
Robshaw ( c)
S.Armitage ( Sod the foreign soil rule. He is playing exceptionally well at 7. That is as exceptional as it gets!)
Morgan
Dickson
36 ( a running threat at 10 is required)
Barrit
Tuilagi
Wade
Ashton
Foden

Wade's injured isn't he?

[Foxton249]

We've got a great chance of upsetting the french, don't rate Beauxis at all. And Tuilagi should have some fun against Rougerie!

[ChequeredJersey]

We've got a great chance of upsetting the french, don't rate Beauxis at all. And Tuilagi should have some fun against Rougerie!

I'm looking forward to finding out how well Fofana defends

[miteyironpaw]

Triang - Can you show me the crowing that's been going on - I really don't see any crowing - there's fans pleased that we're 3 from 3 and quite a few responses to anglo wumming but I don't see much crowing. One welsh poster has even posed the question "can we break into the top 4" - When you think about it, that's hardly crowing is it

Yeah, it was. As I pointed out on the thread. Why use the term "top 4", why not "4th place" because that's realistically what they are talking about. Unless Wales are suddenly going to beat SA, Aus and NZ. Which is quite an arrogant and unfounded thing to suggest at this point. Clearly "top 4" was used in order to talk about Wales in loftier company than they currently warrant. This, dear fellow posters, is crowing.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I'm looking forward to finding out how well Fofana defends

Yeah roll on the France Wales game

[eirebilly]

Can someone please explain to me what you all see in Fofana? I dont get it. A few good runs aside he has been pretty much bog standard in my eyes and has gone missing in large chunks of the matches he has played in.

[LondonTiger]

My Hellfire team to stick 2 fingers up at France and the rugby world...

Wade
Ashton
Foden

Wade's injured isn't he?

Yes he is. Still more likely to score a try than Ashton and Strettle on current form.

[ChequeredJersey]

Can someone please explain to me what you all see in Fofana? I dont get it. A few good runs aside he has been pretty much bog standard in my eyes and has gone missing in large chunks of the matches he has played in.

+1

[Chjw131]

I'm looking forward to the game, and as some posters have mentioned here I think we do have a realistic chance of beating them in Paris. What we often overlook is the long rivalry and psychological edge we've held over France in recent memory.

If Hodgson were to start i'd feel a bit more optimistic about our try scoring count going up though. Contrary to your view PSW I don't think you could level the Saracens accusation at Hodgson as a player. Yes he plays well for them at 10, and very much in the style they want him to, but he's long been an excellent attacking FH with a truly beautiful pass. The stats that stlowe pointed out above give some indication of this.

I also feel he's got a bit more composure than Flood when his pack is not absolutely dominating, given his experience with Sale the past few seasons. Flood tends to be a bit one dimensional sometimes and when the heat is on the backs him and Youngs seem to really struggle internationally.

It seems odd to say but I actually would like to see us get a bit of a lesson in Paris. I do think Lancaster has done well so far considering what he has had to deal with, and it has only been a few games so perhaps i'm being much too demanding and impatient. What I don't see though, as some have already mentioned, is any real thought process as to how to take the opposition apart offensively. No proper work or invention in the breakdown area, no thought as to the balance of the back row, no thought as to the make up and approach of the half backs and no real focus on what sort of forward play and individual players are required to generate the platform for such attack.

As I say, perhaps i'm being much too impatient, but what we have here is a former Leeds Carnigie coach (for a season or two) a promoted scrum coach and a RL legend turned SA gameplan attack coach. None with any great experience of elite international rugby in their field and none that have articulated any real coherent approach as of yet. They have done very well so far, as have the team, but purely on a results basis.

Results: 8/10

Performance: 4/10

[Chjw131]

Can someone please explain to me what you all see in Fofana? I dont get it. A few good runs aside he has been pretty much bog standard in my eyes and has gone missing in large chunks of the matches he has played in.

I believe he's become a darling of Guscott etc.. because he's seen as an 'old fashioned' centre. He's had some good runs and does seem to have excellent vision, but I think it's a bit soon to judge him on just three difficult tests for France.

[eirebilly]

Can someone please explain to me what you all see in Fofana? I dont get it. A few good runs aside he has been pretty much bog standard in my eyes and has gone missing in large chunks of the matches he has played in.

I believe he's become a darling of Guscott etc.. because he's seen as an 'old fashioned' centre. He's had some good runs and does seem to have excellent vision, but I think it's a bit soon to judge him on just three difficult tests for France.

I have watched all his international matches and i am struggeling to see what the hype is about. He just looks to be a very standard centre who does his job as expected. I have not seen anything from him that would suggest that he is the best player in his position.

I am not having a go at the guy, i just seriously dont see why lots of people are bigging him up.

[Chjw131]

On the evidence at the moment eire I would certainly agree with you.

[Chjw131]

Jonathan Joseph, now there's an inspiring centre!

[thebluesmancometh]

Triang

Hardly a lineup that strikes fear into me!

Sheridan I can understand, but Hartley?! Everything Sheridan brings to the scrum you lose in Hartley!

Garvey and Attwood = understandable but definately a working process!

I'd go as far to say I'd go with Armitage, Haskell and Morgan!

Dickson I think has been quite good, and deserves a spot!

36 @ 10??? I like him but he's never going to be an int quality 10, maybe a 12.

Barrit and Tuilagi? wow they are going to really scare defences!

Ashto and Foden are playing so poor at int and club level why bother playing them?!

I'd definately aim higher...

Sheridan

Cole
Attwood
Palmer
Haskell
Armitage
Morgan
Dickson
Flood
Sharples
36
Farrell
May
Armitage

If your going to go down, go down swinging, except I just can't find a hooker I like the look of, Hartley is the only one available.

PS for me Balshaw just missed out, I would definately have tried to coerce him back!

[thebluesmancometh]

Fofanas defence won't really be tested by Tuilagi and Baritt, as long as he makes his first up tackles, at the knee and doesn't get isolated all international centres would do ok.

[whocares]

Can someone please explain to me what you all see in Fofana? I dont get it. A few good runs aside he has been pretty much bog standard in my eyes and has gone missing in large chunks of the matches he has played in.

I believe he's become a darling of Guscott etc.. because he's seen as an 'old fashioned' centre. He's had some good runs and does seem to have excellent vision, but I think it's a bit soon to judge him on just three difficult tests for France.

I have watched all his international matches and i am struggeling to see what the hype is about. He just looks to be a very standard centre who does his job as expected. I have not seen anything from him that would suggest that he is the best player in his position.

I am not having a go at the guy, i just seriously dont see why lots of people are bigging him up.

he's our best centre and probably back at the moment, maybe not so effective than others in defense but at least he brings pace, runs good lines, can break tackles and is a good finisher (he can also play wing and often swap positions with rougerie during a game)... that might be just the standart requirement in your book but if that's the case the overall level of centres in this 6N must be pretty poor (appart from J Davis not sure who has been shining but certainly not the irish ones!). maybe not worldclass but still I'd rather have him than some sort of uni-dimensional crash ball type à la Tuilagi who just take the ball and run straight

sure he goes awol for some part of the game but that's mainly because he doesnt get much of the ball and french attacking game is generally poor.

[ChequeredJersey]

Can someone please explain to me what you all see in Fofana? I dont get it. A few good runs aside he has been pretty much bog standard in my eyes and has gone missing in large chunks of the matches he has played in.

I believe he's become a darling of Guscott etc.. because he's seen as an 'old fashioned' centre. He's had some good runs and does seem to have excellent vision, but I think it's a bit soon to judge him on just three difficult tests for France.

I have watched all his international matches and i am struggeling to see what the hype is about. He just looks to be a very standard centre who does his job as expected. I have not seen anything from him that would suggest that he is the best player in his position.

I am not having a go at the guy, i just seriously dont see why lots of people are bigging him up.

he's our best centre and probably back at the moment, maybe not so effective than others in defense but at least he brings pace, runs good lines, can break tackles and is a good finisher (he can also play wing and often swap positions with rougerie during a game)... that might be just the standart requirement in your book but if that's the case the overall level of centres in this 6N must be pretty poor (appart from J Davis not sure who has been shining but certainly not the irish ones!). maybe not worldclass but still I'd rather have him than some sort of uni-dimensional crash ball type à la Tuilagi who just take the ball and run straight

sure he goes awol for some part of the game but that's mainly because he doesnt get much of the ball and french attacking game is generally poor.

How is Fritz playing at Toulouse at the moment?

[eirebilly]

he's our best centre and probably back at the moment, maybe not so effective than others in defense but at least he brings pace, runs good lines, can break tackles and is a good finisher (he can also play wing and often swap positions with rougerie during a game)... that might be just the standart requirement in your book but if that's the case the overall level of centres in this 6N must be pretty poor (appart from J Davis not sure who has been shining but certainly not the irish ones!). maybe not worldclass but still I'd rather have him than some sort of uni-dimensional crash ball type à la Tuilagi who just take the ball and run straight

sure he goes awol for some part of the game but that's mainly because he doesnt get much of the ball and french attacking game is generally poor.

Dont get me wrong there whocares. Its not a slight on him at all as i think that he is a good player. Its just that there was this hype in the media and on this forum that he was going to single handedly tear sides apart and i just have not seen any sign of that. He has been a pretty standard centre who has done the job asked of him. He has not been better or worse than the rest of the centres in my opinion. I dont see the need to have a go at Irish centres as they have in noway been bigged up.

[Portnoy]

Billy, Manu is not a uni-directional crash ball player.

[thebluesmancometh]

Without sounding bad, I would take Fofana over Tuilagi 10 times out of 10... end product!

[Adam]

France have only a slight edge in the front 5 (I would feel it a much bigger edge were Servat and Nallet starting!), and whilst their backrow is packed with quality, I'm not convinced it's a settled, balanced unit. Their backline is much the same as England's: individual threats, but not much sign of coherent attacking menace.

...so all-in-all - whilst I make the home team favourites - I see no reason why England should fear this French side, and if they can start with the same intensity and physicality that they brought to the Welsh game then we'll stand a very good chance.

ALLEZ LES BLANCS!!

[whocares]

Billy , I know you have point - there is always hype when someone decent gets in the international stage and start to score tries (remember Ashton ). fofana happens to fit in this category and people are bigging him up by default really.

ChequeredJersey , havent seen much of Fritz recently - he was great specially at the start of the season, arguably the best french centre. havent seen much of him in the last couple of weeks

[RubyGuby]

Triang - Can you show me the crowing that's been going on - I really don't see any crowing - there's fans pleased that we're 3 from 3 and quite a few responses to anglo wumming but I don't see much crowing. One welsh poster has even posed the question "can we break into the top 4" - When you think about it, that's hardly crowing is it

If you haven't been crowing - do it now! C'mon! You've a good team, doing well, look like they'll keep getting better, beat Ireland and England in their own backyards - dammit man, if it was England I'd be crowing - don't let anyone spoil your enjoyment of a good run! It might be short-lived or go great guns, but enjoy it while you can!

Cheers nobbled

[LondonTiger]

Fofana looked really good on the front foot against us in the HC.

Looked far weaker when tigers were running at/round him.

[RubyGuby]

[quote="Adam"] I see no reason why England should fear this French side, and if they can start with the same intensity and physicality that they brought to the Welsh game then we'll stand a very good chance.

Adam, England were on the back foot for the first 20 against Wales, they defended very well with a fantastic try saving tackle after just over a minute by Strettle on North, they did however not start with any intensity or physicality, that came much later. They must not let France get ahead. They stopped the welsh early on and that must be key here.

[Adam]

[quote="RubyGuby"]

I see no reason why England should fear this French side, and if they can start with the same intensity and physicality that they brought to the Welsh game then we'll stand a very good chance.

Adam, England were on the back foot for the first 20 against Wales, they defended very well with a fantastic try saving tackle after just over a minute by Strettle on North, they did however not start with any intensity or physicality, that came much later. They must not let France get ahead. They stopped the welsh early on and that must be key here.

Yeah - they spent the first 20 minutes defending, and - with the exception of North's clean break - defending bloody well! I remember when the ball went into touch after 5 or 6 mins or so and I was out of breath just watching some of the shuddering collisions! So I disagree with you: England did start with intensity and physicality....they just didn't have the ball. If they are similarly fired-up then I don't think this France side are as physically or mentally resilient as the current Welsh one, so I'd fancy our chances.

[RubyGuby]

Good Luck

[thebluesmancometh]

Have to agree the key is not conceding anything early, similar to Wales, had we scored that first break it would've been a long day at the office for England, and being in Paris will make it twice as hard!!!

[Rory_Gallagher]

Why is Picamoles not starting again?

[whocares]

good question Rory...dunno really. maybe they are worried about English line out.

[miteyironpaw]

Why is Picamoles not starting again?

Because he sounds like a flowery operatic character who should be wearing a lacy cape, and they wanted the starting team sheet to sound intimidating.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Well that is effective tactics! Give the opposition a false sense of security, until they see the giant that Picamoles actually is! Huge ball carrier, with the hands of a (good) centre.

[eirebilly]

Billy, Manu is not a uni-directional crash ball player.

Dont believe that i said that?

[Rory_Gallagher]

It was whocares that said that, not billy. Though I disagree, Tuilagi is fantastic.

[RubyGuby]

Rory - you still eulogising about this french team

[whocares]

Billy, Manu is not a uni-directional crash ball player.

Dont believe that i said that?

indeed that was me !

but come on am not saying he's a bad player just that he's more effective running at people with the ball in hand (he's even great at that) that passing the ball around.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Rory - you still eulogising about this french team

New coach, taking over from the same team I described during the RWC. Disinterested. Dangerous when they can be bothered. I'm seeing the same thing now which is worrying, but I do dread the day they switch on and click as a team.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Plus on paper, almost the entire french team could be classified as world class players.

[RubyGuby]

Rory - you still eulogising about this french team

New coach, taking over from the same team I described during the RWC. Disinterested. Dangerous when they can be bothered. I'm seeing the same thing now which is worrying, but I do dread the day they switch on and click as a team.

I'll take all those as a NO then

[eirebilly]

Billy, Manu is not a uni-directional crash ball player.

Dont believe that i said that?

indeed that was me !

but come on am not saying he's a bad player just that he's more effective running at people with the ball in hand (he's even great at that) that passing the ball around.

To be honest whocares, neither of us has said anything wrong. Its just been a decent conversation about one of your players. I have very much enjoyed your perspective on Fofana

[Rory_Gallagher]

Rory - you still eulogising about this french team

New coach, taking over from the same team I described during the RWC. Disinterested. Dangerous when they can be bothered. I'm seeing the same thing now which is worrying, but I do dread the day they switch on and click as a team.

I'll take all those as a NO then

You can if you want, it is clear now that Wales are the team to win the 6 nations. France need to switch on, and show some intensity. They could potentially be the best team in the world. These players need to realise that.

[whocares]

To be honest whocares, neither of us has said anything wrong. Its just been a decent conversation about one of your players. I have very much enjoyed your perspective on Fofana

thanks billy, can happily return the compliment

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