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Glasgow and Edinburgh banter thread no. 23 - New season, new thread

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Post by BigGee on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 5:34 pm

Well a new season is probably time to start off a new thread.

2 weeks to the start of the season and both sides with one more pre season game to go. A lot of unknowns this season again, due to the number of players away with Scotland and other countries for the WC.

For Glasgow, can they continue their general excellence that took them on a fantastic end of season run to the Pro 14 Final, where they just fell short. It might be their last campaign under Dave Rennie, so can they go one better?

Edinburgh also have questions to ask, the main one being whether they can ever pass the ball past the FH and how soon before their wingers are likely to go blue from hypothermia? On a more positive note though, they may finally be playing in Mini Murrayfield by autumn 2020. So only one more year to bear playing in the library!

Good luck to both teams for the coming season, though Edinburgh are more likely to need it than Glasgow!

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 5:53 pm

Breaking news.

Edinburgh have been granted permission from the Cooncil to start building the new stadium in the autumn (which is now).

They are all claiming it will be complete in time for next season (yeah good luck with that)
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Post by Kingshu on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 10:13 pm

Edinburghs plan is for a 7500 capacity stadium, is that not too small?
Last year Edinburgh averaged 6800, and you would think more fans would turn up for a stadium with a bit of atmosphere, ones who support Edinburgh but dont like the atmosphere in Murryfield which I am sure there is a lot.

Hopefully its 7500, to create atmosphere and when starts selling out can be increased to 10,000. Otherwise in a few years Edinburgh will be stuck in too small a stadium like Glasgow and will not be able to make the most of the potentional earnings.

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Post by RDW on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 10:22 pm

Kingshu that average will include the 1872 games and maybe even the European quarter which massively skews the numbers. A more accurate normal average is probably around the 5k mark.

You're right that long term it might prove to be too small but let's take baby steps - if we can sell out 7800 every game in the next few years it would represent a huge leap in Edinburgh suppory, which has stagnated at the 4/5k mark (and even less on numerous occasions) for as long as I can remember.

Another key point is the stadium is made to feel like one and not just a bunch of temporary stands in a field - from looking at the architectural drawings that is my worry.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 10:23 pm

That average is really skewed by the big games, derbies and euro games. If you take them out of the equation then 7,800 will be more than adequate in the short to medium term.

They need to be filling a stsdium thst size on a regular basis, as are Glasgow before looking to expand it

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Post by BigGee on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 10:24 pm

Pretty much what RDW said!

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Post by BigGee on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 10:33 pm

https://www.theoffsideline.com/dave-rennie-huw-jones-full-back-glasgow-warriors/

Huw Jones to maybe get a run out at FB for Warriors this season?

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 10:17 am

tigertattie wrote:Breaking news.

Edinburgh have been granted permission from the Cooncil to start building the new stadium in the autumn (which is now).

They are all claiming it will be complete in time for next season (yeah good luck with that)

Gee, thanks fpr starting the thread. thumbsup

I was about to do it, but had taken Flounder's heavy , heavy man, hint that someone who had not done one might want to try. I would have called it Gimme Shelter: the housing crisis in the central lowlands.

So, the rugby Club play at a stadium with a capacity of 7 800 approx. and all the talk is about how we have outgrown it and do we build a granny annex, conservatory and playroom or do we flit to the sunnier side of the dear green place. Meanwhile in Luvvietoon, permission has been given to erect a lean to, capacity 7 800, just behind the mausoleum. Cue a wringing of hands and plaintive cries of "Will we fill it? If we build it will they come?".

That pretty much sums up the state of play between the clubs at the moment.


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Post by Brendan on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 11:20 am

Not sure how close to the main stadium it will be but surely putting a big side stand on the Murrayfield stadium side should be fine in planning as you wouldn't have houses.

Think that it is probably still 5 years off before they would need more seats.  I assume it's not to hard to move big games (or ones with high demand) into the main stadium at short notice.  It's not like there would be monster trucks in there like other national stadiums.

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Post by RDW on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 11:22 am

Don't know if you have been to Murrayfield but it is being located behind the West stand where the current 4G pitch is but rotated 90deg.

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Post by Kingshu on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 12:23 pm

The 6800 average was just for Pro 14 games, but the 1892 games would skew it. Min crowd wss 4200 and max 21,000. So guess the big games will move back to murryfield.

It does look very temporary with room for expansion into the corners in furture if a larger capacity is required.

Its a shame its a season off, as a stadium with atmosphere is what Edinburgh fans have been crying out for. Personally I think average attendance will jump by about 1000, as fans who didnt like murryfield return. Which could have a snowball effect.

What about Glasgow though? Took so long to find a suitable home, but really could do with more seats, are there plans to expand a stand or uncrease the normal capacity?

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Post by BigGee on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 12:30 pm

There apparently are plans for expansion in Glasgow, so we are told, but they are being a bit coy about sharing them with us!

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Post by RDW on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 12:32 pm

They're also running into difficulty with the athletics club who don't like having a stadium getting in the way of their running track.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 1:02 pm

I was going to do another thread but felt it was time a weegie fan wrote it as we don’t want RDW being accused of favouritism by the Westies when I write a thread that’s a bit biased to Edinburgh.

The new stadium for Edinburgh is a step n the right direction. Hopefully the new stadium has been designed to allow expansion to be relatively easy once it is needed. We don’t want it falling foul of the cockup at Scotstoun where it can’t be made any bigger (at least Edinburgh (or at least the Edinburgh owners the SRU) will own the land so can do what they want (within reason) as opposed to the Westies who are still beholden to their landlords.

Edinburgh - a proper rugby team, with proper rugby players like Nel and Gilchrist, getting a proper home that they own
Glasgow - a showpony rugby team, with showpony players like Huw Jones and permatan Price, renting their digs (and not even paying the rent themselves)
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Post by Brendan on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 1:25 pm

tigertattie wrote:I was going to do another thread but felt it was time a weegie fan wrote it as we don’t want RDW being accused of favouritism by the Westies when I write a thread that’s a bit biased to Edinburgh.

The new stadium for Edinburgh is a step n the right direction. Hopefully the new stadium has been designed to allow expansion to be relatively easy once it is needed. We don’t want it falling foul of the cockup at Scotstoun where it can’t be made any bigger (at least Edinburgh (or at least the Edinburgh owners the SRU) will own the land so can do what they want (within reason) as opposed to the Westies who are still beholden to their landlords.

Edinburgh - a proper rugby team, with proper rugby players like Nel and Gilchrist, getting a proper home that they own
Glasgow - a showpony rugby team, with showpony players like Huw Jones and permatan Price, renting their digs (and not even paying the rent themselves)

It could have been the SRU plan all along.  Help out Glasgow only so they would make Scotland better and bring in more money for the SRU.  Once they start getting to good take their coach and give them an SRU job.
Once the SRU have enough money they then get a good coach, new stadium and plenty of teams in the Super 6 for Edinburgh, while they laugh at Glasgow and tell them to make do with their stadium and no you can't have any Super 6 teams because the SRU only love Edinburgh
Or it could just be coincidence.

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Post by RDW on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 1:26 pm

The SRU have made no secret of the fact they prioritised Glasgow for several years.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 2:03 pm

We prefer to look at it as, they supported us in our endeavours to improve and take Scottish rugby forward.

Money well spent most impartial observers would comment.

Unfortunately there attempts to plough some cash into Edinbugh more recently have not achieved the same results!

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 2:54 pm

RDW wrote:The SRU have made no secret of the fact they prioritised Glasgow for several years.

Exactly chief!

Terrible the way Edinburgh and the rugby supporting public outside of glasgow have been treated.

Thankfully we're now in the transition period where that inbalance is being addressed so not only will edinburgh continue to dominate the 1872 cup, we'll start to win leagues and trophies. Somthing that Glasgow, with all thier resources and SRU favourtisim only managed to acheive once by complete fluke!

I'll actually feel sorry for Glasgow in 10 years when Edinburgh have won the Pro 14 three times and have a euro title to boot, meanwhile Glasgow might have the odd 1872 trophy won when Edinburgh were resting players for bigger games (but they'll still be able to harp on about 2015 like an Englishman does '66)
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Post by BigGee on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 1:38 pm

Glasgow continue with their early season signing spree with LH Aki Seiuli coming on board. He has played for the Highlanders for the past 3 years and will join up after the Mitre 10 is completed. He missed the super season with an ACL injury but is currently playing for Otago.

He looks like a decent addition and probably explains why Gordie Reid did not come back.

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Post by nickj on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 4:17 pm

Rennie sounds excited about this one... https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/warriors-sign-super-rugby-prop-seiuli

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Post by BigGee on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 10:48 pm

https://www.theoffsideline.com/mark-bennett-edinburgh-have-put-stodgy-style-behind-them/

So it seems Edinburgh are going to start chucking it about a bit this season!

We will look forward to seeing that!

On a more positive note, am glad Mark Bennetts injury was not as bad as it first seemed and he has had a full pre season, which as he says, might actually have been a good thing for him. Still only 26, his time could easily come again if he can stay healthy.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 2:46 pm

Edinburgh sign Sam Thompson, s Scottish lock who has been making a good impression down in Aus for the past 3 years.

Big, fast and athletic apparently. Mark Palmer has been talking him up for a while now. He could be a very good signing

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Post by RDW on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 2:49 pm

in other lock related news Lewis Charmichael is fit again too.

He looked to be the future during the last summer tour but he hasn't played since!

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 5:11 pm

RDW wrote:in other lock related news Lewis Charmichael is fit again too.

He looked to be the future during the last summer tour but he hasn't played since!

I rate Lewis, good player, but having met the boy, he's not much taller than I am so his 6ft 5 billing may not be entirely accurate. Not sure if he's really tall enough for an international lock but he could certainly do a job a 6 and Toonie does seem to like a BR/Lock hybrid player!
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Post by RDW on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 8:49 am

He is certainly a lightweight lock - will be interesting to see if he's filled out a bit in his time on the sidelines.

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:38 am

RDW wrote:He is certainly a lightweight lock - will be interesting to see if he's filled out a bit in his time on the sidelines.

Matt Scott (12) mrk 2?
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Post by RDW on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:45 am

It's the other way round - Matt Scott is a lean mean fighting machine this season having dropped 10kg!

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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:46 am

Cockers loves a lock apparently. That’s 8 lock options at Edinburgh, 2 of whom will be away for the WC and one is due to leave when they come back, so for the majority of the season we’ll have 7 locks.

By way of caveat, Douglas is a lock/BR option and maybe Carmichael is seen as the same.

Regardless though, that is a lot of players capable of playing lock

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Post by RDW on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:48 am

On that topic CHH has been loaned out to Saracens.

Strange to bring in a new lock then loan him out - maybe Cockers doens't rate him.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:52 am

RDW wrote:On that topic CHH has been loaned out to Saracens.

Strange to bring in a new lock then loan him out - maybe Cockers doens't rate him.

I literally just saw that after making my point about the number of locks we have. Instantly wrong.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:59 am

CHH clearly some way down the pecking order at Edinburgh at the moment.

For someone who was consider a prospect, he does not really seem to have kicked on in the same way that some of the other young locks around have.

Still, going off on loan did not do Carmichael any harm and a loan deal to Saracens really aught to be beneficial to him, even if he does not see a lot of game time there.

Edinburgh are carrying to many locks though, which may be understandable in a WC season, but is going to lead to a cull at some stage prior to next season. A few of them, CHH included are probably playing for their places this season.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 10:09 am

It is not really WC related so I will put this on this thread.

Just announced that Sean Linen and Shade Monroe are reuniniting the Glasgow dream team and are going to be coaching both the U19s and U20s this season.

That is probably an admission that the coaching team from last year, which saw our U20s relegated from the top group, was not very inspiring. They have no doubt been given a mandate to get them back up there pdq!

It ties in with their current roles in the academies and Super 6s as well I guess and there should be no excuses for not being aware of the best youngsters out there.

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Post by RDW on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 10:11 am

On the lock situation it's worth saying Murray Douglas is only temporary world cup cover.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 6:06 pm

First injury of the season for Glasgow, Jale Vakaloloma, our new Fijian looks like he has dislocated his shoulder somewhere down the line. He has had surgery and will be out for the next 4 months.

In other news though, we look like we are putting a much stronger team out against Ulster this weekend. Huw Jones runs out at 13 and begins his run back to his form of old. Hopefully we will see the best of him in a Warriors shirt this season.

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Post by jimbopip on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 6:15 pm

BigGee wrote:First injury of the season for Glasgow, Jale Vakaloloma, our new Fijian looks like he has dislocated his shoulder somewhere down the line. He has had surgery and will be out for the next 4 months.

In other news though, we look like we are putting a much stronger team out against Ulster this weekend. Huw Jones runs out at 13 and begins his run back to his form of old. Hopefully we will see the best something from of him in a Warriors shirt this season.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 6:31 pm

https://www.theoffsideline.com/added-experience-ulster-rematch-dave-rennie/

The Dave Rennie view of things

Interesting to see him name checking Ollie Smith as a potential star at FB for the Warriors in the future. He must have made a decent impression.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:33 pm

RDW wrote:On the lock situation it's worth saying Murray Douglas is only temporary world cup cover.

According to Edinburgh forum, the CHH loan is for the whole season, which makes it less clear and it is true that long loanees often never return. I guess they could call him back though if Edinburgh do run into a lock crisis.

It is going to be an important season for him then, there may be some chances at Allianz, as Itoje and Krus are likely to miss a big block of the season with their international commitments. He needs to get on and make an impression this season though, promise only gets you so far.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 11:18 am

The Glasgow v Ulster pre season match this afternoon at 14.30 is being streamed on the Glasgow Warriors website if anyone is interested.

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Post by jimbopip on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 11:40 am

Lots of (9) changes to the starting XV for today's match against the Red Hand Gang.

1. Oli Kebble
2. Johnny Matthews
3. D'arcy Rae
4. Andrew Davidson
5. Tim Swinson
6. Rob Harley
7. Chris Fusaro (c)
8. Adam Ashe

9. Nick Frisby WHY???
10. Brandon Thomson
11. Rory Hughes Big, aggressive,loves the physical stuff
12. Stafford McDowall As above, but with lots of skill as well
13. Huw Jones Not at all the odd one out. No, really he isn't
14. Kyle Steyn typical Bok, loves to smash people, things, SUV'S, small countries
15. Glenn Bryce If he gets kept on it'll be the best comeback since Lazarus.


Replacements:
Grant Stewart, Alex Allan, Adam Nicol, Kiran McDonald, Bruce Flockhart, Sean Kennedy, Paddy Kelly, Ruaridh Jackson, Charlie Capps, Callum Gibbins, Matt Fagerson, Jamie Dobie, Nick Grigg, Ratu Tagive, Gavin Lowe

Last week I thought that Dobbie was the pick of the 9's. Actually I thought he was the mascot when I saw him run out with the forwards. He has something about him though: a real prospect.

Adam Nicol looked really ready for professional rugby: Rae and Allan will be under pressure this season; DR seems to prefer Kebble-Ragnar and Nuke- Aki (Nuke's mucker from Kiwi-a-go-go land) so third choice pairing with youger prospects snapping at their heels. (If props can be said to snap).


Similarly, BigBadBob-Arthur Ashe-Fozzie must be looking at Cubby-Matt F-Matt Smith and worrying. Not to mention the flying Mullet. And that's before Batman Returns.

I think we will smash Ulster today. People will know they are playing for places against the Cheetahs and we won't see a second half like last week. Can't wait.


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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 12:25 pm

Interesting DR singled out Ollie Smith last week at FB, must be some prospect considering he's another teeniebopper. Either way he's probably still better than Bryce, although who knows, maybe 7s has transformed him from poor to competent. I think it would be a shame to put McDowall at FB considering his potential at centre and looking forward I can't imagine SJ will hang around once his two years are up next year considering his pedigree and his stock rising on the international scene he may want to look abroad for a nice income boost. McDowall would be the most like-for-like replacement so the more experience he has in the centres the better.

Jackson can do a job for now and maybe if this Ollie Smith is that good Glasgow can use him for cover, maybe even over Bryce (depending on how well or poorly he goes today) although Rennie doesn't tend to shy away from bringing young guys in if he thinks they're good.

I hope this is Jones' season to show us what he can do in a Glasgow shirt. If he's firing then I'd say Glasgow have a surefire chance to win the P14 and more importantly, potentially go further in Europe.

Keen to see how the forwards perform today as they seemed to do well in the first half matching up to Ulster who are very well coached in that area.

Interesting times!
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Post by jimbopip on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 12:54 pm

A couple of interesting points Neily.

First FB could easily be a big problem; Rory Hughes had been pencilled in as the long term replacement with Jacko in the interim. Rozza's wretched luck with injuries and Jackson's refusal to fade away have pretty much put the kybosh on that. Ratu Tagive looked promising last week, albeit on the wing, and it'll be interesting to see if he keeps it up today. It would be nice if he could get a run of games injury free.
Not A Pony must be under immense pressure. Grigg, Seaman, Paddy Kelly and himself all wanting the 13 jersey. Johnson also can play 13 if DR wants Furra at 12. Now, this time last year we would have all said Pony first choice and then the others competing to be first alternative: now chin defensively? Seaman. Attacking gaps? Grigg.

As you say, interesting times.

p.s. The Luvvies new stadium? I hear it's to be called The Cottager's Welcome.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 2:57 pm

This match has pre season written all over it

Errors all over the place

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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 3:08 pm

Huw Jones playing well though, just made a try for Rory Hughes

Been impressed with the new hooker, Johnny Mathews. There could be a contract in it for him if he carries on playing like this

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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 3:21 pm

17-12 Glasgow at HT after them being 12-0 down. Glasgow will have the strong wind in the second half

Both sides have had a player binned

Glasgow attacking from everywhere but not sharp enough yet to be pulling them off

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Post by jimbopip on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 3:22 pm

I agree Gee. The change of career may work out well for Jonny Matthis. It's years since he last had a hit single. drumroll

Ulster's full-back has looked good, particularly when linking up with Little on the wing. The worry from the Warriors' point of view is that each time he's done that he has blasted through the 13 channel, so Not A Pony won't be too pleased.

Again though, Nick Frisby....WHY?

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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 4:05 pm

Not been impressed with either oc our SHs

Kennedy did nof have to play well to be better than Frisby, but he has not dond that

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 4:09 pm

To cheer everyone up just found an old Canterbury Scotland jersey complete with famous grouse logo while clearing out. Still in good nick. Size 2xl and fits.

Ram yer so called 4xl macron pish where the sun doesn’t shine!!!

(I’m sounding more like jimbo everyday)
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Post by RDW on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 4:14 pm

Sounds like Kennedy is showing why Edinburgh weren't exactly keen to keep him!

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Post by BigGee on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 4:16 pm

And no sooner than i said that Dovie comes on to see out the match. He had an impressive cameo and looked a lot less likely to make a mistake than the other two.

We can't expect to much from him at his age but he certainly looks a prospect

All i all a decrnt hit out for both sides

37-35 Glasgow at FT

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Post by jimbopip on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 4:17 pm

tigertattie wrote:To cheer everyone up just found an old Canterbury Scotland jersey complete with famous grouse logo while clearing out. Still in good nick. Size 2xl and fits.


As King Lear so memorably said to Goneril when she cast him out onto the blasted heath,
"Ram yer so called 4xl macron pish where the sun doesn’t shine!!!"

(I’m Now you're sounding more like jimbo Jimbo everyday)

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