What really informs our views?

First topic message reminder :

Congratulations to Dan Lydiate on his award, he undoubtedly had some good matches and is a fine prospect - must be his Englishness coming through, but seriously a fine player for Wales. Of course we don't need reminding of his qualities as the commentary team on Saturday certainly made sure that we should be in no doubt about how wonderful he is. There is a certain sheep like tendency among us all to latch on to an opinion indefatigably stated numerous times to concur probably because at that moment no alternative is being presented and so we tend to take the easy route be it if you are a fellow commentator or the watching public.

How much of our political opinion is derived from "opinion" in the press and media compared to our own direct witness of events around us; very little I would wager.

So back to Mr Lydiate, yes he had a good game but for anyone actually watching the game rather then listening to the rather over-excited commentary could tell that the performance of the day belonged to the mercurial Monsieur Dusttoir, but this was lost in all the squeaks of pleasure emanating from the commentary box. It's incredible to note the amount of views aired on this board that reflect precisely those of the various pundits and commentators from the media.

RubyGuby wrote:And the Sour grapes continue

Dont worry youll get over 2003 one day

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:And the Sour grapes continue

Dont worry youll get over 2003 one day

You obviously wont

Funny how none of the welsh players are allowed to be the best in their position THIS 6N

Cuthbert , bowe
JD2 , tualagie

And now lydiate.

Envy or WUMs?

my eyes inform my opinion and I can tell you those three players have been mostly prominent and eye catching.

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:So I think it's clear that Lydiate was not the true MOTM and that that award probably was deserved by Dusatoir. Because I used the example I did, needless to say the the one eyed dragons have come out tin force but please it just happened to be a recent example that effectively illustrated the point. So many people on here were convinced that Lydiate was far better than Dusatoir and clearly he wasn't by a long way (watch the match again with both eyes open). I don't blame you, it is the power of suggestion and hearing what you want to hear which was the general point of the post and not sour grapes rubyguby.
Well done on the GS, you deserved it, if that makes you feel better.

Who are soo many people? You reading it as dusatoir was somehow not fit to put the strapping on lydiates ankle.

All anyone has said is that lydiate was better - in their opinion. Same as some people think tualagie was better than JD2.

slartibartfast wrote:Funny how none of the welsh players are allowed to be the best in their position THIS 6N

Cuthbert , bowe
JD2 , tualagie

And now lydiate.

Envy or WUMs?

my eyes inform my opinion and I can tell you those three players have been mostly prominent and eye catching.

Personally i cant see one Welsh player that was good in their positions. The were constantly outplayed by their counterparts every match. Its why you got the wooden spoon.

Oh wait...

Billy - you been drinkin and smokin with Gibson again! Last time I had a drink with him he said, "Ruby, name me three dutch fellas" "I said no problem, Van Basten, Van Goch and Van Morrison' - Hows that for a Grand Slam

Ahh Amsterdam is a grand place to forget the real world and invent your own world Ruby, you should try it

Been there many a time - one day we will have a beer with Mr G and put the world to writes

Jaysus, that actually sounds scary Ruby LOL

eirebilly wrote:Jaysus, that actually sounds scary Ruby LOL

Scary! you don't even know the half of it - catch you later my friend - Pass on my regards to the man with the wisdom, the inimitable Grand Master "G"

Have a good one mate

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Red_Dragon_Spirit wrote:

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:

gelodge wrote:

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:BTW does anyone have the tackle stats for the match?

Lydiate made 11 tackles, missed none.

Dusautoir made 19 tackles, missed none.

Need I say more.

Of the 30 tackles made by the two players being "assessed", Dusautoir has made 63% to Lydiate's 37%, factor in that Wales had 63% of the possession to France's 37% it kind of makes it obvious that Dusautoir had to make more tackles. For 67% of the game he had opportunity to make tackles!

I'd suggest that the stats show a parity in their performances (tackles made wise).

RDS, by the same token, if you also apply that logic to attacking, them given Wales's superior possession, then you'd expect Lydiate's stats to reflect greater time ith ball in hand and to greater effect? But they don't really, so I am not sure that line of thinking works for either defence or attack

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Red_Dragon_Spirit wrote:

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:

gelodge wrote:

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:BTW does anyone have the tackle stats for the match?

Lydiate made 11 tackles, missed none.

Dusautoir made 19 tackles, missed none.

Need I say more.

Of the 30 tackles made by the two players being "assessed", Dusautoir has made 63% to Lydiate's 37%, factor in that Wales had 63% of the possession to France's 37% it kind of makes it obvious that Dusautoir had to make more tackles. For 67% of the game he had opportunity to make tackles!

I'd suggest that the stats show a parity in their performances (tackles made wise).

Well thats true to some point but you wouldnt say that France were joint winners because they scored as many points per minute with the ball.

Agreed, just like number of tackles made don't always tell the whole story of a performance, good indicator as it might be, there to many other variables and contexts to consider.

I wouldn't call France winners because of the same points per minute ratio, but I would say they performed equally well with the possession they had, and equally well when defending, points per minute conceded.

France didn't win the possesion battle (god knows we kicked/handed it to them often enough!) If the possesion was 50/50 we might have seen a drawn game, that Lydiate and Dusautoir made 15 tackles each? We'll never know.

My response was to point out that player A would have more opportunity to make tackles simply because his team weren't in posession! It was not in anyway to say Lydiate deserved MOTM or that Dusautoir didn't and vice versa.

To be honest I've never been a fan of awarding MOTM awards anyway, its a team sport and for any player to do what he does (good or bad) depends a whole lot on what his team-mates do (or don't do), but it seems that more often than not, it is awarded to a player on the winning side!

RDS, Gotcha

MOTM awards are inevitable in this day and age, sadly

IanBru wrote:I can't comment on the OP's thesis, but there is certainly evidence to support the argument that we are led by commentators' views.

On the 'Player of the Tournament' threads before last weekend, votes were primarily for Richie Gray, with a fairly even spread between Denton, Farrell, Kearney, Fofana and Rennie. Lydiate had less than a third of the votes of any of the leading candidates.

By contrast, Lydiate has won all such polls since the weekend, and done so in an overwhelming, dominant fashion. Sure, Lydiate was good on Saturday, but can a single performance be enough to propel someone to suddenly be the best player of the tournament?

Good post.

These points certainly prove that, for whatever reason, the opinions of 606 posters were heavily shaped by one match.

If we are so easily directed (something psychologists and practitioners of NLP would probably agree with), you certainly wouldn't get many freely believing or admitting they have been, so the question of the OP isn't likely to reveal much.

you remind of someone 3 world cups.. Who were you?

So let me get this right, most non-welsh on here can't stand the sound of Jiffy, but when it comes to his comments they somehow receive unconscious subliminal messages telling them that he must be right. Leave the psychobabble to the professionals. Lydiate was consistent right through the tournament.

Welcome back shrink

Now what did I want? "a bottle in front of me or a frontal lobotomy"?

RubyGuby wrote:So let me get this right, most non-welsh on here can't stand the sound of Jiffy, but when it comes to his comments they somehow receive unconscious subliminal messages telling them that he must be right. Leave the psychobabble to the professionals. Lydiate was consistent right through the tournament.

Almost the reverse, Ruby - not keen on his biased commentary, so have to fight my natural assumption that everything he says is drivel. Lydiate was indeed "consistent right through the tournament" and is a very good player

I like Jiffy, he can be annoying but what commentator cant at times?

eirebilly wrote:I like Jiffy, he can be annoying but what commentator cant at times?

Phillip Matthews - never annoying and top bloke

Ruby, you crack me up, you really do

eirebilly wrote:Ruby, you crack me up, you really do

I'm supposed to have the opposite effect! Do you think I'm doing something wrong or is it Just another Manic Friday - Wasn't that a song sang by the Necklaces

Jaysus, i havent a clue. I do know Manic Monday by the Bangles though



Sad arent i

I see that one went straight over your head Billy - Have a think

Manic Friday by the Necklaces -

get it, seems to have a ring to it

Way over Ruby, i am not myself today

Very clever though

Ok I'm about to leave St Austell for the dark depths of Bodmin (30 minutes) - Ruby will be back live around 1 ish, until then just chat amongst yourselves

Take it easy mate

It's interesting comparing current 606 opinions to those expressed a few days before the final weekend.

https://www.606v2.com/t25858-606-v2-6-nations-player-of-the-tournament-initial-shortlist

In the above poll Lydiate came 12th out of 24 names.

Its to do with people's memories. They can only remember the last game.