Ulster V. Aironi

First topic message reminder :

Provisional Ulster Squad to play Aironi, Friday 30th March, Ravenhill (kick off 7.05pm):

Forwards:
Callum Black, Tom Court, Adam Macklin, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa, Jerry Cronin, Paddy McAllister, Rory Best, Nigel Brady, Lewis Stevenson, Dan Tuohy, Johann Muller (captain), Neil McComb, Stephen Ferris, Willie Faloon, Pedrie Wannenburg, Chris Henry, Robbie Diack

Backs:
Paul Marshall, Ruan Pienaar, Ian Porter, Ian Humphreys, Paddy Jackson, Luke Marshall, Paddy Wallace, Ian Whitten, Nevin Spence, Darren Cave, Stefan Terblanche, Craig Gilroy, Andrew Trimble, Adam D’Arcy

Unavailable due to injury:
Jared Payne, Simon Danielli, Mike McComish, Tim Barker


Is there any rugby-playing adult male in Ulster not named in these lists? Would like to see Deccie get a bit of game time. Still our second best tight head.

geoff999rugby wrote:ulster_on_the_up.

Seroiously what did you expect Stevenson to say. He can not be held liable for other player failings.

Whatever else Tuohy has to offer Stevenson has him beaten hands down in the consistancy department.

Geoff not often us oldies disagree but I have to take exception on this point. Tuohy has been one of our better and most consistent performers all season. Like I said I think it isn't his form that has suffered rather it's having spent too many minutes on the pitch. Fair play to Stevenson for upping his game and giving the management the selection option. I just hope guys are not going to start fault finding with Tuohy on the strength of Stevenson's improvement. From what I've read on the Ireland squad for NZ thread most people have Tuohy as third choice lock. That is where he is atm in my opinion. That opinion hasn't/won't change on the strength of one team selection.

WillyGilly wrote:Never mind the second row debate. The real question is how far has Spence fallen in the Ulster reckoning? His form hasn't been great all season and he's had a few injuries but now it looks as though he could miss out on a qf spot.

Bonus point wrapped up before half time then empty the bench at 50 minutes. Pienaar has played a lot of minutes as well this season, and regardless of the fact he didn't feature much during the WC he still must be running low.

He has been pretty badly managed to be honest. Played at 12 nearly all season, and has had about 3 games maybe at 13.

The spence issue is a tricky one.

He isn't a 12 IMO or at least he showed nothing to suggest he was a 12 last season. He is also a massive departure from the style of play associated our first choice 12.

For that reason it was ludicrous to start him there over Luke marshall at the start of the season. That being said he can be effective as a crash ball player. The problem with ulster at that period was that because we were frequently beat up by opposition packs he was getting slow ball miles behind the gainline and had two or three defenders on him.

I would have liked to see him bench over whitten in all honesty but only those involved in the squad or were in Italy last week know what sort of shape both the guys are in.

Where could I find this on tv guys?

It will be on both BBC NI and TG4, not sure where else.

Rory, you're a gent.

Do you think they are considering Stevenson for the Munster match because he is more of an unknown quantity, my only worry is that both he and muller are fantastic at the grunt work, so we lose one of our more effective ball carriers. But then again with ferris, Afoa, P3 to a lesser extent court we do still have plenty of bulk in that department.

Stevenson could also be considered for selection in order to assist Henry counter David Wallace at ruck time,

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Rory, you're a gent.

Get a room lads

I really hope the guys see this as an opportunity to strike some fear into Munster rather than being cautious and trying to avoid injury. If the QF does not go well, we don't want to be out of the running for a playoff spot either. This is a vital 5 pointer. I want to see some furious rugby tonight!

SUFTUM!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

WillyGilly wrote:Never mind the second row debate. The real question is how far has Spence fallen in the Ulster reckoning? His form hasn't been great all season and he's had a few injuries but now it looks as though he could miss out on a qf spot.

Bonus point wrapped up before half time then empty the bench at 50 minutes. Pienaar has played a lot of minutes as well this season, and regardless of the fact he didn't feature much during the WC he still must be running low.

He has been pretty badly managed to be honest. Played at 12 nearly all season, and has had about 3 games maybe at 13.

The bigger question is why Whitten is being let go if he's above Spence in the pecking order. Clearly Whitten is seen as more versatile and therefore is seeing more action.

Spence is the one badly in need of gametime, in his best position, at this stage of his career so perhaps he should be the one moving to pastures new?

I actually think Spence and Cave were forming a good partnership, starting to split and switch positions but with Wallace in the form he is and Cave nailed on when fit Spence is unlikely to feature much and he isn't a great bench option.

Realistically he and Luke Marshall, a partnership with huge potential, are unlikely to get much gametime together in the foreseeable future unless there are injuries.

Rodders bear in mind that regardless of form Wallace is turning 33 before the start of next season. His days are numbered.

BDV makes a good point. Stevenson is, after Ferris perhaps, our most potent rucker/counter-rucker. If he's playing, it would be fairly common to see him trundle up to an opposition ruck, when other Ulster players are standing waiting for the other team to use the ball, and start counter-rucking. Opposition ball simply can not be slow enough for his liking, and he has forced a number of turnovers on ball that looked secured by the opposition, in the last ten minutes of a game, when legs are tired. He's also an excellent tackler and a sound lineout option. He has a bit of bite, a relentless work-rate, and focus.

For me he loses out because we have three big ball carriers - Ferris, Afoa and Tuohy. Given how little 1F actually plays for us, those skills - the strength and technique to break a tackle, acceleration, a good offload - are at a premium. Whereas Henry, Best, and Muller would all have similar skill sets to Lewis.

If he and Tuohy can learn lessons about leadership and tactical nous from Muller, they could be a very potent partnership when Johann moves on. Hasn't Stevenson already captained Ulster this season

I know Willy but hes got at least a season or 2 left, which is too long for Spence being a bit part player.

If anything Wallace will feature more often as he seems to be drifting out of the Irish scene.

Unless Cave starts getting regular call ups Spence will not get much chances I feel and hes a player who needs regular gametime I feel.

I agree Rodders. If it were so easy, I would happily see Spence out on loan for a while to somehwere like Connacht. Just wouldnt want to lose him completely.

Payne can cover 13 next season too, and Darcy is more than adequate at 15. I agree, I don't think Paddy will be in the Irealnd squad anymore. so if they see Spence as the backup 12, where does that leave Marshall?

Caves injury profile isn't good though. Spence will see gametime I'm sure. We don't know how anscombe will view the squad yet either

What kind of second row is Stevenson?

Workhorse stag.

Not as conspicuous with his carries are ball playing ability as Tuohy but hits more rucks etc

To be honest sounds the right guy to have against Munster. Let Tuohy come on in the second half.

Stevensons a robust sort of fella, well over 18st I think. I actually think hes similar to Tuohy but not as athletic. Hes played well recently.

Stand Spence will get the odd game through injury but I don't think that's good for his form or development. He needs regular games and the opportunity to build up a good understanding with the players around him.

His problem is that he is a totally different player to either Wallace or Cave and it takes a few games for both him and the players around him to adjust when he slots in.

He needs to work on that then rodders. Teams don't have 2/3 games to spare in a season. I still think he will see plenty of gametime. The off season can be a wonderful thing. It can totally change players. I remember the difference between nagusa from the end of his first season to the beginning if his second. It was stark.

This will also be the first time any of them have worked with the new coach

Without Paul O'Connell, Munsters scrum can be badly exposed if you get a monster in your boiler room.

red_stag wrote:Without Paul O'Connell, Munsters scrum can be badly exposed if you get a monster in your boiler room.

Shhh stag you are giving my secret masterplan away......

I think with a lot of these plans Rodders there aint much you can do about it.

If its a breakdown tactic then yes you can change tact. But a scrum - if your gonna get beaten up, your gonna get beaten up.

red_stag wrote:To be honest sounds the right guy to have against Munster. Let Tuohy come on in the second half.

Makes a lot of sense to start Stevenson. Wear the opposition down and then bring on a more mobile guy to exploit tired legs and weakened shoulders.

Stag if O'Connell doesn't make it I really think we can get the upperhand in the scrum. If we have a chance of winning that is the big area which gives us best chance, penalties at the scrum and Pienaar kicking the goals and controlling things at the base.

If we don't get the edge there then I think we will be in trouble as Munster have the far more dangerous backline imo.

The set piece will be crucial I think. Its Munsters lineout v Ulsters scrum.

I remember in the Ireland v England game people saying that the reason for our all around terrible performance was the scrums affecting everyone.

Remembers Saints v Munster. Our scrum was smashed (we yielded two penalty tries at the scrum) yet we won by over 35 points.

This is the type of match I simply cant call. Part of me fears for an Ulster smash and grab. The other half of me thinks we could win by 15 or so points.

Does anyone else have concern about our goal kicking. Pienaars kicking hasnt been great for quite a while. Or at least not as good as i rmember it being. And also, he and humph used to compete for the priviledge, but havnt seen humph with the kicking duties in a long time.

Could this let us down?

It let you down before. . . .remember Ravenhill last year. Pienaar missed the vital kick at goal.

Yeah I'm well aware of what Munster did to Saints!

They did struggle in their other games though and the fact that they were unbeaten and finished strongly has masked that somewhat.

Yes this is intreging. I do fear a vintage Munster here and them blowing us away.

However if we can reproduce the form we showed in the group stages then I think we have a serious chance. Munster do have a few areas that may creak if we can hang in there.

I can't recall being so excited about a game! Theres so much at stake and if Munster win then I think they could win the competition.

Yes, we havent really impressed as of yet apart from Saints. However we are now bringing back David Wallace and Mike Sherry who add serious bite to our pack I feel.

Im the same. It is simply a fantastic fixture. I wouldnt be surpised by any score really.

O'Connell, Ryan and Murray are huge losses for any team to deal with though. I am praying we get Ryan and Murray back.

Is O'Connell definitely out?

clivemcl wrote:Does anyone else have concern about our goal kicking. Pienaars kicking hasnt been great for quite a while. Or at least not as good as i rmember it being. And also, he and humph used to compete for the priviledge, but havnt seen humph with the kicking duties in a long time.

Could this let us down?

*cough cough*

So TBP by half time and ring the changes lads?

Pienarr and Humph were generally very good from the tee last season. There's been an appreciable drop-off in quality in 2011-2012.

BelfastDickVet wrote:Do you think they are considering Stevenson for the Munster match because he is more of an unknown quantity, my only worry is that both he and muller are fantastic at the grunt work, so we lose one of our more effective ball carriers. But then again with ferris, Afoa, P3 to a lesser extent court we do still have plenty of bulk in that department.

Stevenson could also be considered for selection in order to assist Henry counter David Wallace at ruck time,

Hope this doesn't offend, but I just can't help but ask......

Your username, does it mean that you look after the penile health of animals in the north east of Ireland?

Don Alfonso wrote:Pienarr and Humph were generally very good from the tee last season. There's been an appreciable drop-off in quality in 2011-2012.

Theres been a few games where things have been tighter than they needed to be due to kickable points being missed. I hope it hasnt been neglected in practice, and that it doesnt let us down against Munster. Am I right in saying humph and ruan used to compete midweek for the kicking duties? Has this stopped?

rodders you are reading rather too much into a selection on form here lad.

Just because Whitten is playing better than Spence right now doesn't mean he's seen as being a better player than Spence across the next 5 years. Whitten is playing great and will be a fantastic player for Exeter. In a year or two he'll be one of those guys who we say we let slip through the net. And we have, he should be going to Munster or Connacht because we have one current international class centre in his position in Paddy Wallace, 2 other good up and comers in Spence and Cave and then two great young players in Marshall and Farrell. They can't all realise their potential in one province.

But if Spence left we'd be saying the same. Spence has had a nightmare season in many ways, playing in a role that simply doesn't suit him, and his starts at 13 have been limited. He's low on confidence right now but if he's handled right (and one criticism I'd have of McLaughlin is Spence hasn't been handled right at all) he'll be a very good player. But in short term Whitten is in form and full of confidence. This is a short term selection; we're trying to get ready for next week.

eh? Stevenson? No this is what I am thinking anyway regardless of whether he or Tuohy play. I think we have the edge in the scrum.

roddersm wrote:eh? Stevenson? No this is what I am thinking anyway regardless of whether he or Tuohy play. I think we have the edge in the scrum.

No. Whitten vs Spence. Edited above to explain.

Ah ok fair enough then. Maybe.

Can't wait now. Come on, half five...

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:Do you think they are considering Stevenson for the Munster match because he is more of an unknown quantity, my only worry is that both he and muller are fantastic at the grunt work, so we lose one of our more effective ball carriers. But then again with ferris, Afoa, P3 to a lesser extent court we do still have plenty of bulk in that department.

Stevenson could also be considered for selection in order to assist Henry counter David Wallace at ruck time,

Hope this doesn't offend, but I just can't help but ask......

Your username, does it mean that you look after the penile health of animals in the north east of Ireland?

This made me laugh pretty hard, no the vet school in Edinburgh is called the Royal Dick school of veterinary medicne, so it's students are referred to as the dick vets, and I am from Belfast.

But you might end up doing that? Moving back home, and amongst other fauna health issues, attending to the penile well-being of the capital's animals?

Don Alfonso wrote:But you might end up doing that? Moving back home, and amongst other fauna health issues, attending to the penile well-being of the capital's animals?

From what I have heard there's a right few animals in that Ulster squad that might just need the services of a Dick doctor.

Sorry to get away from the Winkle discussion but I see the season tickets (terrace anyway) have gone up to 215 but are 195 during the loyalty period which ends 8th may. That's only a 20 quid increase I think (it might be ten)

Let's be honest guys there are worse jobs out there. Animals with penile problems are usually slaughtered or put down so it wouldn't be a challenging 9-5.

A friend of mine is a human winkie specialist. That might be worse.

Don Alfonso wrote:A friend of mine is a human winkie specialist. That might be worse.

Is she a lady of the night or a medical professional?

BDV you wouldn't know a Peter Dillon per chance?