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Who are you picking for the boks to play England

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Post by blackcanelion Mon 30 Apr 2012 - 11:41

Last of the three. Who do you think will make the boks on current form and given a new coaching set up.

Here's the lineup from the quarterfinal against Australia.

15 Patrick Lambie
14 JP Pietersen
13 Jaque Fourie
12 Jean de Villiers
11 Bryan Habana
10 Morne Steyn
9 Fourie du Preez
1 Gurthro Steenkamp
2 John Smit (c)
3 Jannie du Plessis
4 Danie Rossouw
5 Victor Matfield
6 Heinrich Brussow
7 Schalk Burger
8 Pierre Spies
Replacements
16 Bismarck du Plessis
17 CJ van der Linde
18 Willem Alberts
19 Francois Louw
20 Francois Hougaard
21 Butch James
22 Gio Aplon

I'm picking there will be a few changes. However I'm sure there are some boks fans who can enlighten us to the likely team to face England

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Post by fa0019 Mon 30 Apr 2012 - 13:12

Hi blackcanelion

Meyer will certainly put a conservative "blou" look on his side... big pack, based around the set piece with Morne ticking the scoreboard over.
He has said he may experiment with youth but I sincerely doubt this... ENG are a good outfit and you won't be able to chop and change too much without causing yourself headaches.

This is not the side I would pick necessarily but one I think he will go with

1. Oosthuizen... Greyling in res.
2. Bismaarck... Chilliboy in res.
3. Jannie... Kruger in res.
4. Bekker... Etzebeth in res.
5. Matfield (c)... Kruger in res.
6. Burger... Alberts in res.
7. Brussow... Daniel in res.
8. Spies.... Vermeulen in res.
9. Hougaard... Duvenage in res.
10. Morne Steyn... Lambie or Grant in res.
11. Habana... Mvovo or Basson in res.
12. Frans Steyn... De Villiers & Maisiekind Shocked in res.
13. Engelbrecht... Taute/JP Pietersen/Sadie or De Jongh (toughest position to choose from.
14. Aplon... perhaps JP Pietersen in res.
15. Lambie.... Viljoen or Joe Pietersen in res.

Matfield coming back is one issue that hasn't been resolved but may well happen. Th 10,12 & 15 jerseys could easily interchange between the 3... although Morne will certainly start at 10 and there would be a strong argument for Frans at 15.

13 is a big question where there is no answer. No real replacement ready but a few potentials holding there hands up.

De Jongh is playing reasonably well but his defence often lets him down. Taute is a good young player in a limited side and Meyer holds Sadie & Engelbrecht in high regard so I went with Engelbrecht. JP Pietersen looks a little off the pace so that may count against him... in essence he is a winger.

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Post by Mr Fishpaste Mon 30 Apr 2012 - 13:20

Isn't Burger injured? I thought it was with reference to him that Meyer said he might choose a younger player than he'd previously thought. Some reports said Meyer was impressed with Marcel Coetzee...who knows.

It would be a pity to displace Joe Pietersen, he seems to be playing well, but then again so is Lambie (I suppose what I'm saying is: it's a pity M Steyn will be at 10 and not Lambie - although I agree with FA, I do think that Meyer will go for M. Steyn.)

I do think that JP Pietersen is getting better and better at 13. A combo, in the future, of him and F Steyn might be quite formidible.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 30 Apr 2012 - 13:24

Burger should be back by then... it will be difficult to hold him back if he's fit.

Joe Pietersen is in tough competition.... a little lightweight for many and just perhaps test rugby is one step too far from him (and I'm a WP man myself).

Going into contact he looks a little limited... he is a little predictable with his little chips.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 30 Apr 2012 - 13:58

I saw Habana was getting game time at 13 over the weekend, a tactic to be used in the short term by Meyer? I could be a good option as England are likley to bring Manu (big lad who has been and likes to try and go on the outside), Trinder (rapid OC with clever feet), JJ Joseph (see Trinder description) and Lowe (not as pacey as the others but low centre of gravity and likes to bring his wingers into the game). Putting a speedy option with good footwork at OC might well help in defence and attack as using the 13 as a crash option won't be a good idea if Manu is waiting and a faster option will force him inside and back towards the SA backrow.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 30 Apr 2012 - 14:01

I think Habana facing the Force is a little below the standard of Tuilagi so perhaps it may not be that good idea even though he did ok. Defensively its a difficult position to hold so may be better going to someone who is a natural 13.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 30 Apr 2012 - 14:12

True but England will be wanting to use Flood of Barritt to distribute past Manu to the wings (as they have the stronger passing games). Habana is an intercept merchant and might force England into using Manu to distribute which would slow the passing game down a bit and with Manu's tendancy to back himself it might stop England going quite so wide in attack.

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Post by Biltong Tue 1 May 2012 - 14:45

Burger is said to be out for the June Test window, Jean de Villiers might also be out which I am happy to see, Jaque Fourie has pledged his allegiance to the Japanese club and won't be available until 2014, iin which case I don't want him back.

Meyer has said he is looking at some overseas players, Gurthro Steenkamp, Bakkies Botha, Fourie du Preez might all be in the mix.

Even Ruan Pienaar with his stellar season at Ulster might be looked at.

1. Gurthro Steenkamp - Coenie Oosthuizen/ Dean Greyling
2. Bismarck du Plessis - Tiaan Liebenberg/ Chiliboy Ralapelle
3. Jannie du Plessis - Brok Harris/ Werner Kruger
4. Bakkies Botha - Etzebeth
5. Andries Bekker - Juandre Kruger (Too late for Victor)
6. Heinrich Brussow - Jean Deysel
7. Duane Vermeulen - Ashley Johnson/Willem alberts
8. Pierre Spies
9. Fourie du Preez - Francois Hougaard
10. MOrne Steyn - Patrick Lambie (only if Steyn is injured)
11. Patrick Mvovo - Bjorn Basson
12. Frans Steyn - Patrick Lambie ( utility value again)
13. Bryan Habana - Juan de Jongh
14. JP Pietersen
15. Patrick Lambie - Joe Pietersen
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Post by red_stag Tue 1 May 2012 - 14:48

Biltong, you remember how I said with a few small changes I could really get behind SA rugby.I have to say that team would be a big start.
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Post by fa0019 Tue 1 May 2012 - 14:53

Has PDivvy been hired by Meyer as a selection consultant????

Looks very similar to one of his sides minus Smit, Burger & Matfield who are either retired or injured. Some may argue it would be the strongest side also.

I would hope he doesn't go back to his overseas boks for his sake. Esp. against ENG you have to look forward... they will be a lesser test than NZ so Meyer should have a little freedom to experiment with new combinations.

I wouldn't be a fan of Habana at 13. You are right in that Meyer may very well go down that route but he should rather go out and fine a test 13 and blood him in the ENG series rather than play Habana there and hope he doesn't mess up... although Smith will be licking his lips at exploiting his weaknesses come the 4N.

PS - good to have you back... I think some were wondering if you had gone the way of the ghost!

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Post by Biltong Tue 1 May 2012 - 15:26

Hi Stag, I personally would like to see a few more new guys, some coach must show that it is worth the risk to go balls to the wall.

I wouldn't mind if we use this test series to see whether some youngsters could fit.

I would like to see:

1. Dean Greyling/Coenie Oosthuizen with Kitshfof tried next year.
2. Bismarck with Deon Fourie and Craig Burden in the near future
3. Jannie du Plessis with Werner Kruger and Frans Malherbe tried early next year.
4. Etzebeth and Elstad next year.
5. Andries Bekker and Juandre Kruger
6. Burger (currently injured) and Brussow with Marcell Coetzee looked at.
7. Willem Alberts with Jaque Potgieter tried soon
8. Duan Vermeulen and Pierre Spies
9. Francois Hougaard with Mcleod and Dewald Duvenhage tried soon
10. Patrick Lambie with Goosen looked at next year,
11. Lwazi Mvovo and Bjorn Basson
12. Frans Steyn with Johann Sadie as his back up , Hollenbach for the future
13. JP Pietersen and Bryan Habana with Taute and
14. Aplon and Ndungane for now,
15. Joe Pietersen with Taute for back up.

Something like that.

FA, I think Meyer is going to be more conservative just to find his feet.

PS. I was away on the motorcycle to the Margate bike week, spent lots of time in the saddle and the body is aching all over.
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Post by Rory_Gallagher Tue 1 May 2012 - 15:36

Is Spies really going to start at 8? I just think there are so many better talented options in South Africa..

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Post by Biltong Tue 1 May 2012 - 15:41

There is, but he is a bull.
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Post by Rory_Gallagher Tue 1 May 2012 - 15:42

In fact, I really am envious of your depth at backrow:

Burger, Smith, Brussow, Alberts, Vermeulen, Daniel, Strauss, Johnson, Spies, Deysel, Kankowski, Coetzee..

Not fair! SO many talented players in that list. So many will miss out too.

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Post by Biltong Tue 1 May 2012 - 15:46

Yeah, the biggest problem is combinations.
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Post by flankertye Tue 1 May 2012 - 15:51

No Ruan Pienaar?

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Post by Biltong Tue 1 May 2012 - 15:58

Like I said, he might be on the radar for Meyer. However I feel if the players go for the money they have decided to forsake the honour of playing for their country.
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Post by fa0019 Tue 1 May 2012 - 16:03

Spies isn't that bad a player and you can't deny the bulls are looking quite tasty and a good bet for the title this year under his leadership.

Everyone thought that with Steenkamp, Bakkies, Matfield, Russouw and Du Preez leaving they would struggle esp. up front but after a couple of early shocks they are right up there.... begrungingly.

Vermeulen, Alberts and Kankowski will have to play out of their skin to push Spies from the 8man position. At the moment none are in outstanding form... good, but not good enough.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Tue 1 May 2012 - 17:05

I agree, he isn't that bad. He just isn't as good as a lot of other options.

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Post by fa0019 Tue 1 May 2012 - 17:06

Perhaps he needs a coach like Meyer to bring out the best in him... he certain performs well for the bulls.

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Post by Bullsbok Tue 1 May 2012 - 18:07

biltongbek wrote:Burger is said to be out for the June Test window, Jean de Villiers might also be out which I am happy to see, Jaque Fourie has pledged his allegiance to the Japanese club and won't be available until 2014, iin which case I don't want him back.

Meyer has said he is looking at some overseas players, Gurthro Steenkamp, Bakkies Botha, Fourie du Preez might all be in the mix.

Even Ruan Pienaar with his stellar season at Ulster might be looked at.

1. Gurthro Steenkamp - Coenie Oosthuizen/ Dean Greyling
2. Bismarck du Plessis - Tiaan Liebenberg/ Chiliboy Ralapelle
3. Jannie du Plessis - Brok Harris/ Werner Kruger
4. Bakkies Botha - Etzebeth
5. Andries Bekker - Juandre Kruger (Too late for Victor)
6. Heinrich Brussow - Jean Deysel
7. Duane Vermeulen - Ashley Johnson/Willem alberts
8. Pierre Spies
9. Fourie du Preez - Francois Hougaard
10. MOrne Steyn - Patrick Lambie (only if Steyn is injured)
11. Patrick Mvovo - Bjorn Basson
12. Frans Steyn - Patrick Lambie ( utility value again)
13. Bryan Habana - Juan de Jongh
14. JP Pietersen
15. Patrick Lambie - Joe Pietersen

i have returned from my long hiatus after Bryce Screwed the boks last year Shocked And to get right into it word on the grapevine(keo) is that Lambie is earmarked to start at 15 ,Bakkies will certainly not be called up i believe he said he wants to give youngsters a chance much like Fourie .


1. Coenie Oosthuizen/ Dean Greyling- The beast returns for the sharks this week
2. Bismarck du Plessis - Tiaan Liebenberg/ Chiliboy Ralapelle
3. Jannie du Plessis - Brok Harris/ Werner Kruger
4. Etzebeth
5. Andries Bekker - Juandre Kruger
6. Heinrich Brussow
7. Willem alberts , CJ Stander ,Potgieter ,Marcell ( Really is anyones guess with Schalla out )
8. Pierre Spies
9. Fourie du Preez - Francois Hougaard
10. MOrne Steyn - Patrick Lambie
11. Bryan Habana
12. Frans Steyn
13. Juan de Jongh
14. Gio Aplon / JPP
15. Patrick Lambie

Meyer will most probably start filtering in a host of young bulls during the tri nations (Johan Sadie , JJ engelbracht ,Jacques Potgieter,Cj Stander) at some point . Still looks like a pretty formidable team such a shame that Goosen got injured though Sad Hougaard and Goosen would have been a scarty combination
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Post by Mr Fishpaste Tue 1 May 2012 - 18:24

Whatever the final line-up, I am looking forward to this test series...and I'm faintly optimistic for the Bok future...

(Welcome back Biltong. Enjoying the South Coast were you? Glad you didn't get hit by a crashing plane!)

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 1 May 2012 - 18:49

Very much agree with the suggestion of F Steyn and de Jongh at centre - that would be a cracking combination. Both skillful ball players, great kicking option with Steyn with strong running, and a more elusive yet no less skillful distributor in de Jongh. Both would bring the back three and back row into play nicely, and be less crash ball orientated than previous Bok teams we've seen.

Less fussed about the wing options. Basson, Mvovo, Pietersen, Habana, Aplon - difficult to go wrong really. Chance for Lambie to cement the 15 jersey here.

In the pack the players I'd really like to see play is Alberts. A Brussouw, Alberts and Spies back row could work I think.

I've said it on another thread, this has the makings of a great tour.

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Post by Biltong Tue 1 May 2012 - 18:58

Mr Fishpaste wrote:Whatever the final line-up, I am looking forward to this test series...and I'm faintly optimistic for the Bok future...

(Welcome back Biltong. Enjoying the South Coast were you? Glad you didn't get hit by a crashing plane!)

Thanks mrfishpaste. There is a route from Port Shepstone through Harding to Kokstad, 160 kms of pure riding bliss, through the Kwazulu Natal South coast with sweeping bends and sharper corners with some of the most magnificent countryside in SA. Pure riding bliss. It is a round trip we make every year. Possibly one of the best runs you could have on a motorcycle.
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Post by Biltong Tue 1 May 2012 - 19:01

Bullsbok wrote:
i have returned from my long hiatus after Bryce Screwed the boks last year Shocked And to get right into it word on the grapevine(keo) is that Lambie is earmarked to start at 15 ,Bakkies will certainly not be called up i believe he said he wants to give youngsters a chance much like Fourie .


1. Coenie Oosthuizen/ Dean Greyling- The beast returns for the sharks this week
2. Bismarck du Plessis - Tiaan Liebenberg/ Chiliboy Ralapelle
3. Jannie du Plessis - Brok Harris/ Werner Kruger
4. Etzebeth
5. Andries Bekker - Juandre Kruger
6. Heinrich Brussow
7. Willem alberts , CJ Stander ,Potgieter ,Marcell ( Really is anyones guess with Schalla out )
8. Pierre Spies
9. Fourie du Preez - Francois Hougaard
10. MOrne Steyn - Patrick Lambie
11. Bryan Habana
12. Frans Steyn
13. Juan de Jongh
14. Gio Aplon / JPP
15. Patrick Lambie

Meyer will most probably start filtering in a host of young bulls during the tri nations (Johan Sadie , JJ engelbracht ,Jacques Potgieter,Cj Stander) at some point . Still looks like a pretty formidable team such a shame that Goosen got injured though Sad Hougaard and Goosen would have been a scarty combination

Welcome back Bullsbok, we have a few more South Africans on here now. As far as Bryce is concerned, it is history, we know what we know and the rest isn't worth discussing. thumbsup
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Post by Mr Fishpaste Tue 1 May 2012 - 19:47

Biltong: It really is a lovely part of the country. Where did you go after Kokstad? Ixopo - Richmond / or Bulwer- Howick? (This is my home turf you see, I'm a midlands boy)

Apologies (for the geographical excursion) to people expecting a Rugby chat!

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Post by Driver Tue 1 May 2012 - 19:55

1.Tandai Mtwarwia
2.Bismark Du Plessie
3.BJ Botha
4.Flip Van Der Merwe
5.Juandre Kruger
6.Heinrich Brussouw
7.William Alberts
8.Pierre Spies (c)

9.Francois Hoghard
10.Morne Steyn
11.Bryan Habana
12.Frans Steyn
13.Juan De Jong
14.Willie Le Roux
15.Pat Lambie
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Post by Biltong Tue 1 May 2012 - 20:28

Mr Fishpaste wrote:Biltong: It really is a lovely part of the country. Where did you go after Kokstad? Ixopo - Richmond / or Bulwer- Howick? (This is my home turf you see, I'm a midlands boy)

Apologies (for the geographical excursion) to people expecting a Rugby chat!
Mr Fishpaste. We left JHB on Thursday morning and went on the highway (the boring part) until just before Mooirivier thenturned toward Howick where we slept at the Howick Falls hotel, Friday morning we rode toward PMB but turned off to go through Ixopo and then onward to Kokstad where we turned left on the N2 past Harding toward Port shepstone and then slept in St Michaels for the next three nights.

During Saturday we went to Scottbourgh and on sunday we did the round trip toward kokstad.

Monday we started our trip back along the coast line which was a little frustrating due to traffic, then went through the valley of a thousand hills and rode toward Winterton where we slept last night. This morning was back on the boring highway all the way back home, 2000 kms of mostly great riding.
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Post by Mr Fishpaste Wed 2 May 2012 - 14:23

Sweet.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu 3 May 2012 - 21:40

Has Josh Strauss got any chance of breaking into the Boks team? I enjoy watching him play, could be devastating with the right players.

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Post by Biltong Fri 4 May 2012 - 6:50

I think the fact that he is playing for a very poor performing Lions team might hamper his chances, but then Meyer did meet with all the players of all the Franchises, he does deserve a chance though.
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Post by Biltong Mon 7 May 2012 - 7:24

I am hoping to see some youngsters in our back row, I have been looking at Brussow these last few weeks and as a pilferer he has been dropping the ball, coenie Oosthuizen has been pilfering more ball than him, and as a runner we have better ball carriers as well.

Not sure I would pick him on current form.
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Post by Bullsbok Mon 7 May 2012 - 13:13

biltongbek wrote:I am hoping to see some youngsters in our back row, I have been looking at Brussow these last few weeks and as a pilferer he has been dropping the ball, coenie Oosthuizen has been pilfering more ball than him, and as a runner we have better ball carriers as well.

Not sure I would pick him on current form.

Totally agree , the only time i;ve really seen Brussow is when he's starting fights which he does a lot
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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon 7 May 2012 - 13:27

Never really thought of Brussow as an aggressive type of player.. I have to say I do rate Brussow quite a bit.

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