Irish Summer Tour Squad

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RELAND SUMMER TOUR SQUAD (New Zealand 2012):

Backs (13):

Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
AN Other

Forwards (16):

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster) *
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
AN Other
AN Other
AN Other

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:JmD that would pretty much be my team as well. I would be tempted to start with Trimble on the wing instead of Gilroy and ease either Gilroy or Zebo in the international arena by bringing them off the bench. Perhaps a 15 minute run out in the first match, 25-30 minutes in the second match and then possibly a start in the third. I think for both players who have just a handful of provincial starts each it might be too much to throw them in at the deep end. A certain Paddy Jackson might be able to tell you how that feels.

Gilroy has been a 1st team player for nearly two years surely? And started in a team that got to the final of the HC. I think Gilroy could handle an international match, I honestly do.

Trimble will lose out to Gilroy and Bowe next season, and should be the same with Ireland.

I think POM deserves a go too.

I agree I think with the squad the way it is, Earls will have to play wing. McFadden aswell I think.

I don't see how people still think Wallace is a bad player. He is without doubt the best 12 we have and I feel bad that he is being passed up for Darcy who doesn't have a varied enough game to play international standard anymore.

ROG being there is so so poor I think.

I'd also rate Kearney Jr and Gilroy well ahead of Zebo. he still has so much to learn IMO.

Ferris isn't fit - thanks Kidney - Ulster wont see him till the HC next year now, or worse
The guy is desperate for a rest - great call.
He will of course not say so but anyone with half a brain can see he should not play this summer.

Also really really worried about props. We are now not only an injury away from being screwed at TH we are only a injury away from being screwed at LH.

Hope I am wrong but this tour has all the makings of a car crash.

For those saying Ferris deserves a rest (I agree), have you noticed he is also selected for the barbarians game? Ridiculous call.

I would have chosen McLaughlin ahead of Ferris - he should feel very hard done by in general. I think he has been brilliant.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I'd also rate Kearney Jr and Gilroy well ahead of Zebo. he still has so much to learn IMO.

Luckily one of them isnt try scoring...but who wants a wing who can score tries...

Probably Declan Kidney..

madigan told to go away for the summer and work on his garryowens no doubt.

i presume now kiss is full time backs and defense coach. great. nothing against kiss but a new voice in the backroom staff would have a been a great addition, our attacking game is dire.

a part of me hopes we get an absolute walloping down there. never thought id see the day. i have no sense that we are making the slightest bit of progress which most of the rugby hacks and kidneyites keep telling us.

i await gerry thornleys piece on the squad

Think Sin E and Geoff have this one right between them; Ferris desperately needs to give his dodgy knee a break. The IRFU will pick players to tour because they are big names.

Meanwhile little thought is given to the long-term consequences of forcing Ferris to play. I hope he starts just one test. It's the Lions next year after all and it would be such a shame for him to miss out again through injury.

What it confirms is Ulster need a decent NIQ blindside for at least the next two years. Between his knee, the summer tour, international commitments and the Lions he's not going to be playing for Ulster very much even if his career does last until the end of the 2013/2014 season.

DOD wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I'd also rate Kearney Jr and Gilroy well ahead of Zebo. he still has so much to learn IMO.

Luckily one of them isnt try scoring...but who wants a wing who can score tries...

He is fantastic at scoring tries himself but if he can't make it he is the kinda guy who won't pass or will not see the support runner that would cost us a try. Realistically he will come up against the fullback and try go around him........lets see how that goes down against Israel Dagg. Support is so important. Finding that support is equally as important.

Like I said the guy is seriously talented but he still has so much to learn.

Notch wrote:

Meanwhile little thought is given to the long-term consequences of forcing Ferris to play. I hope he starts just one test. It's the Lions next year after all and it would be such a shame for him to miss out again through injury.

Its the type of game he plays. I bet he would be furious if he was left at home. As for the Lions, its the IRFU that pays his wages! And he got injured with the Lions the last time he went with them!

From reports, Denis Leamy is retiring at just 30. He hasn't been right since about '07 (No doubt pete (buachaill on eirne) will miss being able to moan about him being the worst player to ever put on an Ireland jersey).

I'm not sure if Kidney has actually watched a rugby match since 2009. He just picks the same old players, with someone telling him to pretend like he has and pick some random young players. I'm expecting O'Callaghan to be starting in spite of his shocking form, he's good at the unseen work, did you know?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

DOD wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I'd also rate Kearney Jr and Gilroy well ahead of Zebo. he still has so much to learn IMO.

Luckily one of them isnt try scoring...but who wants a wing who can score tries...

He is fantastic at scoring tries himself but if he can't make it he is the kinda guy who won't pass or will not see the support runner that would cost us a try. Realistically he will come up against the fullback and try go around him........lets see how that goes down against Israel Dagg. Support is so important. Finding that support is equally as important.

Like I said the guy is seriously talented but he still has so much to learn.

Zebo is also fantastic at winning restarts. And he has a great boot.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

DOD wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I'd also rate Kearney Jr and Gilroy well ahead of Zebo. he still has so much to learn IMO.

Luckily one of them isnt try scoring...but who wants a wing who can score tries...

He is fantastic at scoring tries himself but if he can't make it he is the kinda guy who won't pass or will not see the support runner that would cost us a try. Realistically he will come up against the fullback and try go around him........lets see how that goes down against Israel Dagg. Support is so important. Finding that support is equally as important.

Like I said the guy is seriously talented but he still has so much to learn.

Zebo is also fantastic at winning restarts. And he has a great boot.

That is true too actually.
Is he a leftie by the by can't remember?

Also Leamy will be sorely missed by Munster and there were times in 07 and before when he was a great player for Ireland I just don't think he ever got back up to the level that Heaslip did after the rugby world up. Don't really like him as a player but can see he was good at what he did.

TOL is the worst player to wear an irish jersey! Let's not go there though.

Does anyone think it is a bit odd that some players who are playing the BaaBaa's game don't get in at all before they have even played the game? Obviously there are some players who just won't get in but would have thought he'd wait until after that game to make a decision particularily on guys like Zebo/Gilroy etc.

Sin do you have any inside info on big POC?

Finding it hard to feel any excitement for this tour and i hate Kidney for that.

The selection isnt too far away from what i was expecting. I thought Wallace and Mcloughlin had done enough to get picked although i dont think they would have made too much of a difference.

Cant believe Madigan is left at home for the summer. Not only is picking Rog a bad choice for the future but also for the present as Madigan has been playing much better than him.

Would have thought two of Gilroy/Kearney/Zebo would have toured. Wasnt Kearney ahead of Zebo in the 6 nations? and Zebo has dropped off since then I think so not quite sure how he beats Kearney to a spot. Again not going to make a massive difference.

Maybe its better that these players arent exposed to Kidneys coaching in the long run. Cant see him continuing after his contract runs out. The lack of replacement for the backs and fitness coach would signal to me that the IRFU are just letting his contract run down.

ok..so we have figured out that we dont want a try scoring winger who is very exciting in open play...clearly we dont need try scoring wingers...erm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

DOD wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I'd also rate Kearney Jr and Gilroy well ahead of Zebo. he still has so much to learn IMO.

Luckily one of them isnt try scoring...but who wants a wing who can score tries...

He is fantastic at scoring tries himself but if he can't make it he is the kinda guy who won't pass or will not see the support runner that would cost us a try. Realistically he will come up against the fullback and try go around him........lets see how that goes down against Israel Dagg. Support is so important. Finding that support is equally as important.

Like I said the guy is seriously talented but he still has so much to learn.

Zebo is also fantastic at winning restarts. And he has a great boot.

That is true too actually.
Is he a leftie by the by can't remember?

Also Leamy will be sorely missed by Munster and there were times in 07 and before when he was a great player for Ireland I just don't think he ever got back up to the level that Heaslip did after the rugby world up. Don't really like him as a player but can see he was good at what he did.

TOL is the worst player to wear an irish jersey! Let's not go there though.

Does anyone think it is a bit odd that some players who are playing the BaaBaa's game don't get in at all before they have even played the game? Obviously there are some players who just won't get in but would have thought he'd wait until after that game to make a decision particularily on guys like Zebo/Gilroy etc.

Sin do you have any inside info on big POC?

Heard POC is travellingeven if he will only be fit for one test (and is still walking on one leg). These guys have to earn their international contracts.

As for the Zebo/Gilroy/Kearney pick - I think Zebo was picked because of his finishing/try scoring - 12 trys this season for Munster (who haven't been exactly firing on all cylinders). I think Kearney and Gilroy have scored 3 each.

Now, you may claim that there is more to a winger than scoring trys - but the issue is that the only back that scores a few trys these days is Earls and Zebo won't be starting if Earls is starting. McFadden will be covering Trimble.

Golden wrote:

Cant believe Madigan is left at home for the summer. Not only is picking Rog a bad choice for the future but also for the present as Madigan has been playing much better than him.

Really? How many points has Madigan kicked this season?

Madigan has scored 7 tries and set up 7 tries, he is a playmaker. A great talent and is better than ROG. He deserves to go.

Madigan has kicked 53 points and scored 8 tries. Which would make it look more likely that he should replace Sexton rather than ROG. God knows Sexton isnt the future...he isnt even the present

Sin é wrote:

Golden wrote:

Cant believe Madigan is left at home for the summer. Not only is picking Rog a bad choice for the future but also for the present as Madigan has been playing much better than him.

Really? How many points has Madigan kicked this season?

Quite a few not sure of the exact number but he kicked in a number of games, which when you play in a team with McFadden, Nacewa and Sexton who would all be 85%+ kickers is some achievment in its self.

He also has huge amount more to his game unlike ROG this season who has been poor. Apart from a couple of drop goals and some kicks at goal he has been poor. Was awful against ospreys.

DOD wrote:Madigan has kicked 53 points and scored 8 tries. Which would make it look more likely that he should replace Sexton rather than ROG. God knows Sexton isnt the future...he isnt even the present

Sexton is very much the now and the future, i just dont think he plays well under the tactics of Kidney. That said, i feel that Madigan will push him to 12 at some stage in the next 12 months.

If Ferris wasn't able to play surely he wouldn't be picked? It's all doom and gloom here about team Ireland, but presumably they're hoping to beat New Zealand. And if they want to do it they need the likes of Ferris. If O'Connell and Ferris can play they will play. Two of our best players.

If Ross stays injury free, and O'Brien and O'Driscoll play like they did two days ago, and we get our defensive system right, and O'Mahoney plays and gets in their faces along with Ferris, and we cut out the aimless kicking, and Sexton brings his Leinster assurance to the green jersey, and Reddan takes Murrays place and plays well, then we can win.

That's a lot of ifs, but there always is when facing the best rugby team on the planet. They will be a bit rusty, so we could pull it off. We just have to stop kicking possession away and play more expansive rugby when it's on. We can do it because there's very little pressure, as nobody expects us to win.

New Zealand will be looking over our games this year, and the last thing they'll expect is running rugby, so we can catch them off guard. I'd rather we backed ourselves and gave it a shot. At least we'd stand an outside chance of ambushing them. If we try and do to New Zealand what we did to Australia in the RWC we don't have a hope in my opinion.

so madigan first choice with a 40year old Rog on the bench. thats that sorted then couldnt make it up.

Rog has been a top player and a great servant but is no longer international class. Sexton has had some bad days at international level and has gotten a few high profile doses of the yips. He is however a class player 3 HC's aged 26. not bad eh

We will see this for Ireland if we chose to play heads u attacking rugby rather than meat head dark ages rugby without the raw power to do so.

DOD your a smart chap and a good wind up merchant but deep down you must know the score. you are spot on about darcy. put him in a team with a decent attacking strategy and all of a sudden he does not look like the nervy plodder we see in the green jersey.

SinE - "you may claim that there is more to a winger than scoring trys "

SinE - "Really? How many points has Madigan kicked this season?"

Why is there more to a winger than scoring tries but there isn't more to an outhalf than kicking points?

Golden wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Golden wrote:

Cant believe Madigan is left at home for the summer. Not only is picking Rog a bad choice for the future but also for the present as Madigan has been playing much better than him.

Really? How many points has Madigan kicked this season?

Quite a few not sure of the exact number but he kicked in a number of games, which when you play in a team with McFadden, Nacewa and Sexton who would all be 85%+ kickers is some achievment in its self.

He also has huge amount more to his game unlike ROG this season who has been poor. Apart from a couple of drop goals and some kicks at goal he has been poor. Was awful against ospreys.

When he is trusted by the Leinster management to take the kicks, he might make a tour. Too much messing around to accommodate him and a kicker required (unless maybe Conor Murray takes up kicking again). Otherwise he will have to wait for JJ at 12.

Leinsters attacks start with Reddan, they're masterminded by Sexton and O'Driscoll, and finished by any of the numerous support runners, usually with Kearney playing an important part. All these players should be starting. It can't be that hard to get the same players to play the same way in green. And I know the likes of Zebo, Ferris and O'Mahoney can play this way too.

I'd expect the physical intensity and defensive ferocity of the Australia RWC game as a bare minimum. I want Kidney to become the anti-Kidney and catch New Zealand by surprise. Most of his team play attacking rugby every week. It makes sense to make use of that. Please don't revert to the out of date style of rugby that clearly doesn't work.

Mickado wrote:SinE - "you may claim that there is more to a winger than scoring trys "

SinE - "Really? How many points has Madigan kicked this season?"

Why is there more to a winger than scoring tries but there isn't more to an outhalf than kicking points?

No one else to take the kicks. You can just about accommodate one non-try scoring fullback & wing.

There's far more "messing" required to allow for ROGs defensive impotence.

dublin_dave wrote:so madigan first choice with a 40year old Rog on the bench. thats that sorted then couldnt make it up.

How do you figure that?

dod said sexton is not the future or present and madigan should in fact replace him and not a 35year old rog.

if sexton is not the future or present the cupboard is pretty bare and rog will no doubt be given a contract for another year or two

i concede 40 is pushing it

Two of the three uncapped players from Munster plus Rog. Typical Kidney. Zebo in particular is very lucky. Kidney has to go. It's becoming ridiculous.

This squad shows just how badly we need to get rid of kidney...

Lets just send LEinster to play the ABs..they are after all the best team in the whole universe.

Fair enough Dave, DOD comes out with some gems at times but i think that he is bang on about Madigan pushing him though.

eirebilly wrote:Fair enough Dave, DOD comes out with some gems at times but i think that he is bang on about Madigan pushing him though.

Thanks Billy....coming from the king of blandness and part of the v2 stepford wives club...I am touched....

DOD wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Fair enough Dave, DOD comes out with some gems at times but i think that he is bang on about Madigan pushing him though.

Thanks Billy....coming from the king of blandness and part of the v2 stepford wives club...I am touched....

Ahh Deaglan

the problem is that madigan for all of his ability is not a great goalkicker so will continue to be an impact sub for the foreseeable future. i kind of like the idea of trying to turn him into a scrum half (cannot remember who suggested this on here) a bit leftfield but could work

i do not see Sexton as a 12 at all. He is a quality fly half.

Is Madigan too titchy to play 12?

See now there we differ Dave. Madigan is a very god goal kicker i feel. Just because he isnt first chice doesnt mean he cant kick. Plenty of teams have goal kickers that are'nt 10's so its not a pre-requisit in my books.

I have seen Sexton at 12 a few times and he has looked very natural there as well.

dublin_dave wrote:the problem is that madigan for all of his ability is not a great goalkicker so will continue to be an impact sub for the foreseeable future. i kind of like the idea of trying to turn him into a scrum half (cannot remember who suggested this on here) a bit leftfield but could work

i do not see Sexton as a 12 at all. He is a quality fly half.

Yes lets take the most exciting raw talented running outhalf and turn him into a scrumhalf....almost as laughable as not taking Zebo cos he can only score tries....

Mickado wrote:There's far more "messing" required to allow for ROGs defensive impotence.

Not really. Easier to get almost any player to make tackles than to kick points. If it was that easy everyone would be kicking them.

Likely Madigan has been told to spend the next three weeks with a coach improving his kicking (and not like Sexton who preferred to play golf than go to kicking practice)!

Oh by the way Paul Deans the best running outhalf ireland ever had couldnt kick goals either.

Sextons golf practise must be working. Claimed the golden boot in the league (ahead of...?) and the top points scorer in the cup (ahead of...?)

Or are you talking about the statement he made 3 or 4 years ago?

Question lads, if Earls is picked on the wing will be refuse to play?

dont have any issues with zebo going dod. young exciting player who has had a decent first full season. his try scoring record is very good and we will not learn a thing about him unless we give him a chance v the very best.

just a shame that the same logic was not applied to madigan.

jackson and madigan at 12. now that would be a baby faced midfield combination. imagine sonny bill williams running at them off a dominant scrum.

Nah, he will play Mick. Its difficult though if BOD is fit as he will walk into the side at 13.

I just think that its a mistake having D'Arcy (who we all know will be picked) at 12. A BOD 12, Earles 13 combo sounds quite good though.

Great defence and can now kick his goals...pity about the rest of his game especially in the step up to international level....

Why wouldnt Earls play?

Mickado wrote:Sextons golf practise must be working. Claimed the golden boot in the league (ahead of...?) and the top points scorer in the cup (ahead of...?)

Or are you talking about the statement he made 3 or 4 years ago?

Question lads, if Earls is picked on the wing will be refuse to play?

Yep. I hope Sexton had a word with madigan and told him now is the time to be working on his kicking, not during the week before a Heineken Cup final/middle of the 6Ns when everyone is watching him through their fingers.

Earls refuse to play! What planet are you on? He is employed by the IRFU. He could forget rugby as a career if he refused to play where asked.

I didn't say he would, I'm just wondering if his plans to walk into Tob Penneys office and tell him he doesn't want to be a winger because he lacks confidence there would extend to the international arena.