Irish Summer Tour Squad

First topic message reminder :

RELAND SUMMER TOUR SQUAD (New Zealand 2012):

Backs (13):

Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
AN Other

Forwards (16):

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster) *
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
AN Other
AN Other
AN Other

Jaysus that was bad. Poor form from Horan.

Sin é wrote:
Yep, POC & BOD were just pubs at the time. Interesting actually, after that match POC & DOC destroyed the Leicester lineout of Johnson & Kay a few weeks later in the Heineken Cup for a big Munster win in Welford Road (one of my favourite Munster HC matches). ROG & Strings scored trys that day.

I think Murray is a better candidate than those backs mentioned because of the position he plays in and he will be old/experienced enough in 2/3 years time.

He'll have to improve massively if he's going to be captain,the captain needs to be first choice no questions asked.Murray is a long way from that at the minute.
I'd say Best will take over after BoD and who knows what will happen after that with injury,form,etc...

Mickado wrote:

Thomond wrote:Lads is there video of what Horan did to BOD? What did he do? I don't remember anything but it soudns bad.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2011/06/1989/brian-odriscoll-back-from-the-dead-then-a-neat-flick-pass

Nasty stuff.

But it's the medical staff's fault that it happend. So don't blame Horan...

In fairness BODs seems to have recovered fairly quickly, some might say he was milking it a bit when you view the full footage. He takes some hit from Howlett/Jones? as well!

Still, I didn't like Horan charging him (or any player) like that.

Sin é wrote:
I think Murray is a better candidate than those backs mentioned because of the position he plays in and he will be old/experienced enough in 2/3 years time.

I think scrum half is the worst position for a captain so I wouldn't even consider Murray, who right now isn't good enough for the side anyway.

Has he captained Munster?

O'Mahony could be a good captain. I would prefer someone closer to the action than Kearney as a captain. Maybe Sexton or Sean O'Brien, Donnacha Ryan seems like the kind of guy who is a leader but not a captain. Everyone has to be a leader so the captaincy isn't a huge issue.

+1 Thomond.

For me POM is probably the best choice for a future captain of Ireland. I would be suprised to see him as captain by the next RWC.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Thomond wrote:Lads is there video of what Horan did to BOD? What did he do? I don't remember anything but it soudns bad.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2011/06/1989/brian-odriscoll-back-from-the-dead-then-a-neat-flick-pass

Nasty stuff.

But it's the medical staff's fault that it happend. So don't blame Horan...

In fairness BODs seems to have recovered fairly quickly, some might say he was milking it a bit when you view the full footage. He takes some hit from Howlett/Jones? as well!

Still, I didn't like Horan charging him (or any player) like that.

He milked it by having an operation months later and being out of the game for 9 months. play the game Marcus, take the hit in the scrum and stop trying to injure people!

O'Mahony could be a future captain, but he needs to sort out his aggression. It is brilliant to see him get so aggressive in contact, but he gets wound up too easily. If someone says something or gives him a slight shove, he reacts every time. Needs to sort that.

Or I could be like Sin and say he will never be able to control himself based on what we have seen, and is a nasty bugger.

O'Mahoneys a few years away. He needs to establish himself in the side and nail down one position first.

I can't see anyone other than Best, kearney or Sexton captaining after BOD. They were the 3 guys shortlisted when POC and BOD were out.

Also, I wouldn't see a problem with Kearney as captain, even if it is from 15. There will still be pack leaders, like POC has been for Ireland while O'Driscoll was captain. Ireland have a few leaders already. Sexton is certainly one. Not sure why people don't think he would be a good captain to be honest.

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Thomond wrote:Lads is there video of what Horan did to BOD? What did he do? I don't remember anything but it soudns bad.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2011/06/1989/brian-odriscoll-back-from-the-dead-then-a-neat-flick-pass

Nasty stuff.

But it's the medical staff's fault that it happend. So don't blame Horan...

In fairness BODs seems to have recovered fairly quickly, some might say he was milking it a bit when you view the full footage. He takes some hit from Howlett/Jones? as well!

Still, I didn't like Horan charging him (or any player) like that.

He milked it by having an operation months later and being out of the game for 9 months. play the game Marcus, take the hit in the scrum and stop trying to injure people!

I don't think thats the only hit BOD has taken in his career to date and wasn't he putting off having an op on it anyway for after the world cup.

Was BOD out for 9 months? 5/6 at the most (from after world cup to after 6Ns).

Lads, what about D'Arcy or P.Wallace?

I think Best or Kearney are the two clear choices. I dont see problem with Kearney at 15 as being too far away from action.

Ok Horan only put him out for 6 months then.

Yeah, he’s taken hits before alright. but not many cheap shot’s like that. How Horan wasn’t cited is beyond me. nasty character. An anti-rugby player, just wants to stop others from playing. like in TP this season against Leinster, some mess he caused. Ah well didn’t help his team too much.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:O'Mahony could be a future captain, but he needs to sort out his aggression. It is brilliant to see him get so aggressive in contact, but he gets wound up too easily. If someone says something or gives him a slight shove, he reacts every time. Needs to sort that.

Or I could be like Sin and say he will never be able to control himself based on what we have seen, and is a nasty bugger.

Rory, you are probably too young to remember what POC was like at his age!

POM is exactly like what POC was like back then. Mad young fellow. A lot of people see the similarities and why he is earmarked as captain material.

As well as that, POM apparently has captained every team he has played for.

POM, captained Musnter and did a good job. He led by example agaisnt the Os shame no one else followed him though!

Well I have high hopes for O'Mahony. His leadership is clear, but as I said that aggression needs controlled a bit.

Mickado wrote:Ok Horan only put him out for 6 months then.

Yeah, he’s taken hits before alright. but not many cheap shot’s like that. How Horan wasn’t cited is beyond me. nasty character. An anti-rugby player, just wants to stop others from playing. like in TP this season against Leinster, some mess he caused. Ah well didn’t help his team too much.

That explains a lot. The fact that he wasn't cited says everything.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well I have high hopes for O'Mahony. His leadership is clear, but as I said that aggression needs controlled a bit.

That will come with age and experience. To me, he is the stand out player to lead Ireland in a year or two.

eirebilly wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well I have high hopes for O'Mahony. His leadership is clear, but as I said that aggression needs controlled a bit.

That will come with age and experience. To me, he is the stand out player to lead Ireland in a year or two.

He has stood out for me too eirebilly. Especially during the world cup when he captained from 8. I think if Best does not play in this Barbarian's game, O'Mahony should be made captain. Not sure who else would be an option anyway.

eirebilly wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well I have high hopes for O'Mahony. His leadership is clear, but as I said that aggression needs controlled a bit.

That will come with age and experience. To me, he is the stand out player to lead Ireland in a year or two.

He seems to have made a big impression in the squad for one so new and young - Ferris mentioned POM as the one who was all sage-like to him after the penalty/YC against Wales. Ferris sounded like he really valued his opinion which I thought was pretty amazing since it was POM's first cap.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Why the hell are you including NIQ players? Just pick your favoured Irish XV instead of trying to make some point

Because they would be the difference between looking decent and getting hammered!

I can see that you’re trying to jink the question here, much like O’Driscoll.

So in the style of Horan I’ll have to just metaphorically ram my shoulder into you off the ball, injure you, and push you for an answer.

Who would you pick to start against the Abs in the first test?

Mickado wrote:

Who would you pick to start against the Abs in the first test?

Kearney
Trimble
Earls/Cave (see how Cave works out for the BaBas)
BOD
McFadden/Earls
Sexton
Murray
Heislip
SOB
Ryan
DOC
Ross
Best
Healy

Cronin, a TH, Tuohy, Henry, Reddan, ROG, McFadden/Zebo

Mind, they are going to be destroyed!

On what basis would you pick Donnacha O’Callaghan?

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Who would you pick to start against the Abs in the first test?

Kearney
Trimble
Earls/Cave (see how Cave works out for the BaBas)
BOD
McFadden/Earls
Sexton
Murray
Heislip
SOB
Ryan
DOC
Ross
Best
Healy

Cronin, a TH, Tuohy, Henry, Reddan, ROG, McFadden/Zebo

Mind, they are going to be destroyed!

Since when did Murray start playing 8?

Mickado wrote:On what basis would you pick Donnacha O’Callaghan?

Experience & familiarity with Ryan.

sean.c wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Who would you pick to start against the Abs in the first test?

Kearney
Trimble
Earls/Cave (see how Cave works out for the BaBas)
BOD
McFadden/Earls
Sexton
Murray
Heislip
SOB
Ryan
DOC
Ross
Best
Healy

Cronin, a TH, Tuohy, Henry, Reddan, ROG, McFadden/Zebo

Mind, they are going to be destroyed!

Since when did Murray start playing 8?

Since he started playing with Heislip there.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:On what basis would you pick Donnacha O’Callaghan?

Experience & familiarity with Ryan.

Clearly not on form then? Why not Touhy? What does Touhy have to do to get a game? And if you're picking on experience and familiarity with a seemingly fragile player (otherwise why couldn't he play with anyone else) why not start Reddan with Sexton?

Also, you're missing a flanker from your team, but other than that. Awesome selection.

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:On what basis would you pick Donnacha O’Callaghan?

Experience & familiarity with Ryan.

Clearly not on form then? Why not Touhy? What does Touhy have to do to get a game? And if you're picking on experience and familiarity with a seemingly fragile player (otherwise why couldn't he play with anyone else) why not start Reddan with Sexton?

Also, you're missing a flanker from your team, but other than that. Awesome selection.

I think Tuohy is too short for an international lock. That would put extra pressure on Ryan to call all the lineouts on himself.We'd also have to do what Leinster did to include Thorn in the lineout (have a backrow option like McLaughlin).

We're playing NZ - the Ireland backrow will need a dig-out from the SH (and anyone else available). It will be physical.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:On what basis would you pick Donnacha O’Callaghan?

Experience & familiarity with Ryan.

Clearly not on form then? Why not Touhy? What does Touhy have to do to get a game? And if you're picking on experience and familiarity with a seemingly fragile player (otherwise why couldn't he play with anyone else) why not start Reddan with Sexton?

Also, you're missing a flanker from your team, but other than that. Awesome selection.

I think Tuohy is too short for an international lock. That would put extra pressure on Ryan to call all the lineouts on himself.We'd also have to do what Leinster did to include Thorn in the lineout (have a backrow option like McLaughlin).

We're playing NZ - the Ireland backrow will need a dig-out from the SH (and anyone else available). It will be physical.

Heaslip and Ferris (but you haven’t selected a second flanker) are jumpers in the lineout too. Heaslip in particular is skilled at defensive lineout jumping. Touhy will provide more power in the scrum which is an important area to concentrate on (I know Munster don’t believe that but it is ). If you play Murray to “help the backrow” then you will NEVER get quick ball because the scrum half will have his head in every ruck. Start Reddan to provide quick ball, quick ball allows the OH to stand flatter to the gainline and affect his game plan on the field. Start Murray and Sexton will have to stand 5m behind each ruck.

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:On what basis would you pick Donnacha O’Callaghan?

Experience & familiarity with Ryan.

Clearly not on form then? Why not Touhy? What does Touhy have to do to get a game? And if you're picking on experience and familiarity with a seemingly fragile player (otherwise why couldn't he play with anyone else) why not start Reddan with Sexton?

Also, you're missing a flanker from your team, but other than that. Awesome selection.

I think Tuohy is too short for an international lock. That would put extra pressure on Ryan to call all the lineouts on himself.We'd also have to do what Leinster did to include Thorn in the lineout (have a backrow option like McLaughlin).

We're playing NZ - the Ireland backrow will need a dig-out from the SH (and anyone else available). It will be physical.

Heaslip and Ferris (but you haven’t selected a second flanker) are jumpers in the lineout too. Heaslip in particular is skilled at defensive lineout jumping. Touhy will provide more power in the scrum which is an important area to concentrate on (I know Munster don’t believe that but it is ). If you play Murray to “help the backrow” then you will NEVER get quick ball because the scrum half will have his head in every ruck. Start Reddan to provide quick ball, quick ball allows the OH to stand flatter to the gainline and affect his game plan on the field. Start Murray and Sexton will have to stand 5m behind each ruck.

Ferris's knee is being just about held together. If Heaslip is so brilliant at lineout jumping, why was McLaughlin included (and jennings dropped?).

Schmidt tends to start Boss away from home, and Ireland are away from home in NZ. With McCaw about, I can't see Ireland winning too many rucks and the SH is going to need to be able to defend well.

Sin é wrote:
Ferris's knee is being just about held together. If Heaslip is so brilliant at lineout jumping, why was McLaughlin included (and jennings dropped?).

Schmidt tends to start Boss away from home, and Ireland are away from home in NZ. With McCaw about, I can't see Ireland winning too many rucks and the SH is going to need to be able to defend well.

2 backrow jumpers is better than 1,that's pretty basic stuff.

Mickado wrote:On what basis would you pick Donnacha O’Callaghan?

He's a Munsterman, come on get with it Mick. Never mind that Tuohy is younger, faster, stronger, has better hands, is more powerful and has had a better season....

big lump of a scrum half in poor form and donners not for me!

i would not have brought ferris on the tour as he needs minding with his knee but he is going so will play. henry v pom for bench slot is a tough one.

wingers is tricky minus bowe and with trimble in poor form. could make a case for mc fadden and earls on the wings or a debut for zebo

Sin - I will accept your theory that Tuohy is too small for international rugby when I see it. So far, it hasn't caused him or his team a problem being 6 foot 5. Honestly I think there is another reason behind why you don't like him featuring.

Mick O'Driscoll has agreed to be on standby if Paul O'Connell doesn't make it back from injury for the Ireland tour to New Zealand. The 33 year old Corkman has agreed to retire at the end of the current season and sees this chance at taking on the All Blacks as the perfect way to finish his career. "Obviously its vital that Paulie gets back to full fitness", said the Munster second row who earned 23 international caps for Ireland. "But I spoke to Declan about it and I am available if needs be". Mick O'Driscoll played in what is widely considered to be his best ever Munster performance against the New Zealand All Blacks in 2008 in Thomond Park.

I hope Mick O'Driscoll, a player recently retired, will not be chosen ahead of Dan Tuohy.. please tell me that won't be the case.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin - I will accept your theory that Tuohy is too small for international rugby when I see it. So far, it hasn't caused him or his team a problem being 6 foot 5. Honestly I think there is another reason behind why you don't like him featuring.

Nope. I think Muller calls most the lineouts to himself (and he is 6'7" - an inch taller than the rest of our locks who all seem to be 6'6" at a minimum - other than Toner) so the fact that it isn't a problem can be explained by that.

If anything, you'd think I'd want him to feature since his Irish connections are through my own county, Tipperary.

He hasn't retired yet Rory. Its at end of season. If he is chosen for NZ his end of season will be in July.

If MOD is picked, i will lose the plot. I rate the guy and think that he is very good but there are better younger players out there.

Is this a wind up staggy?

eirebilly wrote:If MOD is picked, i will lose the plot. I rate the guy and think that he is very good but there are better younger players out there.

Is this a wind up staggy?

Why yes. I thought this entire thread was one big wind up.

Either way, that would be the worst call by Kidney yet. I would honestly be lost for words.

Chillax Rory, put on a bit of Wonderwall and relax listening to your musical hero

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin - I will accept your theory that Tuohy is too small for international rugby when I see it. So far, it hasn't caused him or his team a problem being 6 foot 5. Honestly I think there is another reason behind why you don't like him featuring.

Nope. I think Muller calls most the lineouts to himself (and he is 6'7" - an inch taller than the rest of our locks who all seem to be 6'6" at a minimum - other than Toner) so the fact that it isn't a problem can be explained by that.

If anything, you'd think I'd want him to feature since his Irish connections are through my own county, Tipperary.

Tuohy has partnered Stevenson quite a bit this year don't forget. Tuohy is also very good in the line-outs, even if he is at a huge disadvantage being a few centimetres smaller than some other second rows..

red_stag wrote:

eirebilly wrote:If MOD is picked, i will lose the plot. I rate the guy and think that he is very good but there are better younger players out there.

Is this a wind up staggy?

Why yes. I thought this entire thread was one big wind up.

Phew

Fine back to the usual stuff.

Grr I hate Leinster
Grr I hate Ulster

Feeling restless stagg, got that Friday night out on the town feeling?

eirebilly wrote:Feeling restless stagg, got that Friday night out on the town feeling?

Im headed out tomorrow. Tonight just going to take it easy. Been away on rugby tours for last two weekends so this time relax at home. Herself is working tonight so got the place to myself.

have a nice weekend gents.

its been a long emotional thread. i have aged reading it but its been compelling : ))))

Isn't Touhy the same size as Brad Thorn?

Ok, I'm off for the night. Good luck.