Roach drops Ariza From his Corner

If anyone gives a damn

This is a good move by roach - Ariza always interferes with the work of the cutman - take a look at the Linares vs Demarco fight or even Pacquiao vs JMM fight - he didn't let Diaz work on Manny's cut until round 10

Ariza will still be in the camp for pacquiao but he won't be in the 4 in the corner come fight night

http://www.boxingscene.com/roach-takes-aim-drops-ariza-from-pacquiaos-corner--53586

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZKeYwmVJSE - Arum on pacquiao's team - towards the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu-RpQtDndY

I don't get why Ariza is some fitness guru who is better than the rest.

azania wrote:I don't get why Ariza is some fitness guru who is better than the rest.

Don't like Ariza, but he is good at what he does, he is one of the best fitness trainers out there, Just look at how Khan become more durable - but his best work in my opinion was with chavez jr - who recently along with khan dropped him - Ariza tries to take over other people's job (e.g. cutman) that is why I dislike the man, he is far too arrogant - the thing is a lot of fitness trainers give their fighters their own nutrients/protein shakes etc..., Ariza has his own nutrition team that supplies him so that he can give his fighters what they require

azania wrote:I don't get why Ariza is some fitness guru who is better than the rest.

I'd have thought you of all people could answer that what with you love of modern training techniques & supplements etc!

But in all seriousness I think its the hype surrounding him & Manny's camp, success etc that's leading people to think of him as a fitness guru. The guy clearly knows his stuff, Manny & Khan condition wise are proof of that. He also has a lot of qualifications in this field & is very research minded/based & has been putting into practice what he's learned, he has a very modern approach to strength & conditioning as well as nutrition.

As for him out of the corner for this upcoming fight not a problem I don't think he adds anything really as he does a job in the training camp rather than fight night.

There are other fight conditioners out there. Other guys who know as much as Ariza. Is this guy some kind of Svengali? I think he gets more credit that he deserves.

azania wrote:There are other fight conditioners out there. Other guys who know as much as Ariza. Is this guy some kind of Svengali? I think he gets more credit that he deserves.

But not many - guys like flores who has worked with martinez and now with Robert garcia's fighters - isn't that good, neither is the guy khan is with now - Angel Hereida (JMM) is good at what he does.

Isn't Khan with Haye's guy? I thought he knew what he was on about.

azania wrote:There are other fight conditioners out there. Other guys who know as much as Ariza. Is this guy some kind of Svengali? I think he gets more credit that he deserves.

Yes he probably does get more credit than the others & possibly deserves but that's mainly down to his media image & working alongside Roach & Manny, it's the journalists who put him up there rather than himself although he does appear to have a big ego. I did read up on him before & he is very well educated in fitness, conditioning & nutrition, I think he went to University so has read the research & knows the science behind it. Obviously there are other guys who know as much as him out there but how many are working in pro boxing? I would say the top guy in this field working in pro boxing at the moment is Vic Conte. I know he gets a lot of stick on here but the guy really is a guru in the industry, he really knows his stuff. Lets hope he keeps it legal.

azania wrote:Isn't Khan with Haye's guy? I thought he knew what he was on about.

Why the hell does Haye have bad stamina - he can only fight on bursts

He seems to be working with khan on power but it looks like it might take away from his speed and stamina - Good fitness trainer adjusts his technique to the fighters needs - Ariza was very good at that

He lasted well in the Val and Wlad fights. I don't see stamina issues at HW. It's just his style of fighting.

He hasn't done much on Khan's power going by his KO record of late.

Khans only recently joined up with him Az.

hampo171 wrote:Khans only recently joined up with him Az.

I thought Khan was with him ever since he joined up with Roach. My bad.

No he'd been with Ariza previously, they've brought Hayes guy in who by the looks of things on ringside is doing a lot of power work.

Ariza is the guy behind manny's tradition of power up the weight classes. He has a 'special recipe' that has helped manny and also khan in the past

I think most nutritionists and conditioning coaches are on par with each other but ariza gets more credit as manny's transition to welterweight has been the biggest feat of boxing nutrition to date given

Doesn't Manny have a Filipino doc who gives him caterpillar juice or something to make him gain weight and increase power? Similar to Ma Juhren with those chinese distance runners who blew apart all world records and disappeared soon afterwards.

azania wrote:He lasted well in the Val and Wlad fights. I don't see stamina issues at HW. It's just his style of fighting.

He hasn't done much on Khan's power going by his KO record of late.

He was with Ariza since The Prescott fight (except McCloskey fight), hasn't had a fight with Haye's guy with him - but from video's it looks like he is working on power with khan

Khan has great stamina and he should be working on power. He seems to give up power for speed. He can do both hopefully. Plus please Roach, teach Amir how to use a jab with authority.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Ariza is the guy behind manny's tradition of power up the weight classes. He has a 'special recipe' that has helped manny and also khan in the past

I think most nutritionists and conditioning coaches are on par with each other but ariza gets more credit as manny's transition to welterweight has been the biggest feat of boxing nutrition to date given

Ariza has his own Nutrition team (he said in a video, a while ago) who give him the required ingredients for him to put together, to give to his fighters - He criticised some fitness trainers for doing everything themselves - they should Hire people who are specialist at their jobs like he has done - in this instance he was talking about nutritionists. Funny how he doesn't let cutmen do their jobs, he should follow his own advice

Is he giving instructions to fighters mid round?

azania wrote:Khan has great stamina and he should be working on power. He seems to give up power for speed. He can do both hopefully. Plus please Roach, teach Amir how to use a jab with authority.

Khan knows how to use a jab with authority - rewatch Mallinaggi fight - it's to do with his poor mentality

Working on power in the incorrect way can reduce stamina and speed - I have talked to sports Fitness trainer before (not Necessarily boxing fitness trainers - but knowledge should be similar), reason some athletes should avoid muscles if that is against their physical nature, as that can give strength in the wrong way - Some people gain their power and strength from speed and explosiveness.

With Khan if he tries to gain power he should make sure he does it the correct way, his speed shouldn't over shadow his power but his power should be dictated by his speed.

Lot of khan's stamina is due to his great durability to the body, he can take punishment and keep going - when it comes to body, his chin is very average but when hurt and tired his Heart pushes him through.

azania wrote:Is he giving instructions to fighters mid round?

More motivation things during the round - he lets freddie do his job, he interrupts with the cutman's job. He shouts Instructions from Freddie During the Round - Every Fight You can hear him shouting Instructions during a round (due to roach's inability to shout loud due to parkinsons)

KO-KING wrote:

azania wrote:Khan has great stamina and he should be working on power. He seems to give up power for speed. He can do both hopefully. Plus please Roach, teach Amir how to use a jab with authority.

Khan knows how to use a jab with authority - rewatch Mallinaggi fight - it's to do with his poor mentality

Working on power in the incorrect way can reduce stamina and speed - I have talked to sports Fitness trainer before (not Necessarily boxing fitness trainers - but knowledge should be similar), reason some athletes should avoid muscles if that is against their physical nature, as that can give strength in the wrong way - Some people gain their power and strength from speed and explosiveness.

With Khan if he tries to gain power he should make sure he does it the correct way, his speed shouldn't over shadow his power but his power should be dictated by his speed.

Lot of khan's stamina is due to his great durability to the body, he can take punishment and keep going - when it comes to body, his chin is very average but when hurt and tired his Heart pushes him through.

He doesn't seem to have the same authority against pressure fighters though. I'm sure the fitness gurus out there know how to balance the stamina and power issue.

Yeah, he has great heart and determination. Too much perhaps. He should use his brains a bit more. But judging by his tweets and comments, perhaps not.

azania wrote: Yeah, he has great heart and determination. Too much perhaps. He should use his brains a bit more. But judging by his tweets and comments, perhaps not.

khan has too much machismo

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Ariza is the guy behind manny's tradition of power up the weight classes. He has a 'special recipe' that has helped manny and also khan in the past

I think most nutritionists and conditioning coaches are on par with each other but ariza gets more credit as manny's transition to welterweight has been the biggest feat of boxing nutrition to date given

Yes & no. They all have the same job to do but there are those that know the reason & science behind what they are doing & those that have learned on the job and know 'that it works'. The latter use a 'tried & tested' one size fits all formula where the former take a step back & analyze the individual working out & on the areas for improvement. This is where the likes of Ariza & Conte are able to take it to another level.

Ariza is also getting a lot of credit & attention because of the fighters he's working with alongside Roach & his mouth.

azania wrote:Khan has great stamina and he should be working on power. He seems to give up power for speed. He can do both hopefully. Plus please Roach, teach Amir how to use a jab with authority.

That was something I noticed in the Mcloskey fight, he seemed to be looking to throw as many punches as fast as possible per round rather than sitting on them. That was also a fight he didn't use the jab with great authority. However against Kotelnic, Mallinaggi & Judah he seemed to fight punch perfect. I think it could be a bit of a mentality thing with him.

sohotnot wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Ariza is the guy behind manny's tradition of power up the weight classes. He has a 'special recipe' that has helped manny and also khan in the past

I think most nutritionists and conditioning coaches are on par with each other but ariza gets more credit as manny's transition to welterweight has been the biggest feat of boxing nutrition to date given

Yes & no. They all have the same job to do but there are those that know the reason & science behind what they are doing & those that have learned on the job and know 'that it works'. The latter use a 'tried & tested' one size fits all formula where the former take a step back & analyze the individual working out & on the areas for improvement. This is where the likes of Ariza & Conte are able to take it to another level.

Ariza is also getting a lot of credit & attention because of the fighters he's working with alongside Roach & his mouth.

I get you, but by on par I meant that there are no 'bad' nutritionalists and no 'great' ones. I think you may be a little harsh on several of them also. Yea they can be by the book but next to all of them become individual as they start there careers. I know a few who all have differing opinions, one thing doesn't work for another whether there on megabucks or just out of uni. They all know how to adjust based on the person and aren't afraid to change there techniques. They all know the science behind it but it can be hard to get recognised by a leading athlete

sohotnot wrote:
That was something I noticed in the Mcloskey fight, he seemed to be looking to throw as many punches as fast as possible per round rather than sitting on them. That was also a fight he didn't use the jab with great authority. However against Kotelnic, Mallinaggi & Judah he seemed to fight punch perfect. I think it could be a bit of a mentality thing with him.

According to Emmnauel Steward - That had to be the tactic against a guy like McCloskey - due to Dudey being so relaxed and loose and being on the defencive, fighters become stuck when they try to pick punches against a guy like PM, so rather than risk being countered, rather throw many punches and take the rounds and slowly wear him down for a late stoppage - Not sure if I completely agree with everything he said but can't ignore something that a HOF trainer says

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:

sohotnot wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Ariza is the guy behind manny's tradition of power up the weight classes. He has a 'special recipe' that has helped manny and also khan in the past

I think most nutritionists and conditioning coaches are on par with each other but ariza gets more credit as manny's transition to welterweight has been the biggest feat of boxing nutrition to date given

Yes & no. They all have the same job to do but there are those that know the reason & science behind what they are doing & those that have learned on the job and know 'that it works'. The latter use a 'tried & tested' one size fits all formula where the former take a step back & analyze the individual working out & on the areas for improvement. This is where the likes of Ariza & Conte are able to take it to another level.

Ariza is also getting a lot of credit & attention because of the fighters he's working with alongside Roach & his mouth.

I get you, but by on par I meant that there are no 'bad' nutritionalists and no 'great' ones. I think you may be a little harsh on several of them also. Yea they can be by the book but next to all of them become individual as they start there careers. I know a few who all have differing opinions, one thing doesn't work for another whether there on megabucks or just out of uni. They all know how to adjust based on the person and aren't afraid to change there techniques. They all know the science behind it but it can be hard to get recognised by a leading athlete

Some do & some don't. It depends as I say on their background, I'm referring more to conditioning coaches, are they ex boxers or just trainers that have learned in gyms or are they more of the newer guys out their that have always had an interest in it & have done courses and with regards to nutrition been to university & then applied it to boxing as well as other sports. I don't think Conte or Ariza studied just to work within boxing, more they graduated to it. I agree with your last point.

KO-KING wrote:

sohotnot wrote:
That was something I noticed in the Mcloskey fight, he seemed to be looking to throw as many punches as fast as possible per round rather than sitting on them. That was also a fight he didn't use the jab with great authority. However against Kotelnic, Mallinaggi & Judah he seemed to fight punch perfect. I think it could be a bit of a mentality thing with him.

According to Emmnauel Steward - That had to be the tactic against a guy like McCloskey - due to Dudey being so relaxed and loose and being on the defencive, fighters become stuck when they try to pick punches against a guy like PM, so rather than risk being countered, rather throw many punches and take the rounds and slowly wear him down for a late stoppage - Not sure if I completely agree with everything he said but can't ignore something that a HOF trainer says

I agree with you there, the guy knows his stuff. It has been mentioned on here about would he be a good trainer for Khan if he were to leave Roach or has he come as far as he can with Roach. A tall for the weight fighter with a good reach?

I still think Khan could have applied that tactic a little better.

A little overanxious to make an impression I think.

ShahenshahG wrote:A little overanxious to make an impression I think.

Could very well be the case.

sohotnot wrote:

KO-KING wrote:

sohotnot wrote:
That was something I noticed in the Mcloskey fight, he seemed to be looking to throw as many punches as fast as possible per round rather than sitting on them. That was also a fight he didn't use the jab with great authority. However against Kotelnic, Mallinaggi & Judah he seemed to fight punch perfect. I think it could be a bit of a mentality thing with him.

According to Emmnauel Steward - That had to be the tactic against a guy like McCloskey - due to Dudey being so relaxed and loose and being on the defencive, fighters become stuck when they try to pick punches against a guy like PM, so rather than risk being countered, rather throw many punches and take the rounds and slowly wear him down for a late stoppage - Not sure if I completely agree with everything he said but can't ignore something that a HOF trainer says

I agree with you there, the guy knows his stuff. It has been mentioned on here about would he be a good trainer for Khan if he were to leave Roach or has he come as far as he can with Roach. A tall for the weight fighter with a good reach?

I still think Khan could have applied that tactic a little better.

desperate for a KO front of his homecrowd


Why did my Garcia thread get deleated - No reason for it to be Deleated

Not you mate - the others kicking off

this roach ariza soap opera has been going back and forth for a while now apparently. maybe now mannys system is clear they can finally ditch ariza without fear of repercussions?

Lance wrote:this roach ariza soap opera has been going back and forth for a while now apparently. maybe now mannys system is clear they can finally ditch ariza without fear of repercussions?

Ariza is still with Pacquiao - just won't be in his corner like usual when it comes to fight night - he won't be one of the 4 cornermen

Pacquiao Insisted Ariza remain in the corner - most likely he will remain in the corner.

Ariza vs Arum

http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-ariza-relationship-differences-get-ugly-vegas--53713

not good for the pac camp, all this in fighting. Wasted energy and Roach was undermined. Manny is power hungry, Ariza too, Ariza should be fired. Arum too.

Meh, its Mannys corner he should get to decide who's in it and the rest either want out or fall in line, they're the employees... Don't think thats "Power hungry"

I think it's all a load of rubbish.

In every Pac camp they either show there is trouble/distractions etc to have a ready made excuse in case he loses or performs bad and if not they come out with load of trash after anyway.

'If' he loses to Bradley (unlikely), I guarantee he won't say on the night Bradley was better, it'll be Ariza's thought or some other rubbish i.e.

- couldn't stop Mosley due to cramps
- couldn't stop/beat JMM because of cramps and gambling,drinking etc
- lost to Morales due to wrong shoes/blister

For all Pac's good qualities he adores himself and loves to surround himself with people who worship him and is a sore loser.

Don't forget wrong gloves with the Morales one also , have to agree Valero they're all premadonna's they're bitchier than promqueens.

I guess it's due to the significance of a loss that many boxers take losses so bad and look for excuses.

I would love Pac to rid himself of the leeches around him and I bet he gets fleeced rotten.

I know it helps him feel at home and obviously doesn't like to be lonely but i think it's made him lose a sense of reality and no-one is critical or tells him any home truths and has like many become a primadonna as you say.

AlexHuckerby wrote:Don't forget wrong gloves with the Morales one also , have to agree Valero they're all premadonna's they're bitchier than promqueens.

Are post madonna's any better?

I agree to an extent with Valero's C - but this I think is real, normally these guys play it up - but Ariza tries to indicate that HBO blow it out of proportions in interviews.

Ariza got fired by Khan for a reason and I understand Roach - Him leaving camp was not very professional.

And gloves do make a difference especially if your going from Reyes to Winning (not saying that is the reason he lost)