How did Kevin McLaughlin avoid a citing

First topic message reminder :

I've just seen the footage on sky. How did he escape a citing.

http://www.skysport.co.nz/rugby/

There is clear footage of him attacking Richie McCaw's face up to three times in a maul early on in the game. I can understand that the officials might have missed the action live, but it appears blatant on replay and at least worth a citing. I think he's a lucky boy and he's dodged a bullet.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

biltongbek wrote:It is the way the cookie crumbles, I remember the extreme uproar when Burger did it, there are still posters on here 3 years later that will tell you they hate Schalk Burger, it is the same with the Bakkies incident during the British and Irish tour in 2009, Jones injured his shoulder with Bakkies charging into him at a ruck, the outrage for something that happens in every match was ridiculous, it happened with Pocock last weekend, when(can't remember the plaeyr's name) launched into Pocock in a ruck.

I guess the lesson in this is people in glass houses shouldn't be so keen to throw stones.

It's funny the different way people remember things.I remember the incidents as well but my main memory is of S.A. fans and coaches.I think the phrase they used was "it's not ballet dancing" and I remember a brain dead justice campaign by the S.A. players.On several forums and websites there were loads comments from S.A. fans telling the soft NH guys to get over it,maybe I just remember them because they were the ones that annoyed me.

If Irish fans were on here defending McLaughlin and our coaches said McCaw had nothing to complain about because once you step on a rugby pitch these things happen then I think there would be some comparison.

I agree with all of that

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

biltongbek wrote:It is the way the cookie crumbles, I remember the extreme uproar when Burger did it, there are still posters on here 3 years later that will tell you they hate Schalk Burger, it is the same with the Bakkies incident during the British and Irish tour in 2009, Jones injured his shoulder with Bakkies charging into him at a ruck, the outrage for something that happens in every match was ridiculous, it happened with Pocock last weekend, when(can't remember the plaeyr's name) launched into Pocock in a ruck.

I guess the lesson in this is people in glass houses shouldn't be so keen to throw stones.

It's funny the different way people remember things.I remember the incidents as well but my main memory is of S.A. fans and coaches.I think the phrase they used was "it's not ballet dancing" and I remember a brain dead justice campaign by the S.A. players.On several forums and websites there were loads comments from S.A. fans telling the soft NH guys to get over it,maybe I just remember them because they were the ones that annoyed me.

If Irish fans were on here defending McLaughlin and our coaches said McCaw had nothing to complain about because once you step on a rugby pitch these things happen then I think there would be some comparison.

Yeah you see, PDV made those comments, and by now we all know he was a clwon when dealing with the media, question is though, how many times do you think you have to listen to Burger or Bakkies or whoever being climbed into on a daily basis. Eventually there are those that will explode. I know I got gatvol of listening to SA players are thugs and the dirtiest ever and the this and the taht, and it just went on and on and on and on.

Point is, lust look at how quickly and how many posts there has been since I mentioned Burger on this thread, immediately there were varied responses,

I am getting back to my original point and didn't really want to belabor this issue.

Perhaps peoplle in glass houses shouldn't so readily and with so much gusto throw stones, the shoe can very quickly be on the other foot.

As for the justice 4 botha.

It was a reaction from SA players and in my view today still the correct manner, I don't really care whether you feel they were childish or not. Botha did what every player worth his salt does in a ruck, I can pull out an example of that from every test match played since.

Jones unfortunately got injured, and that is the only reason there was such a debate and hype about it, the Lions were losing the test series and naturally fans used that as an outlet for their rage and disappointment, however as I say, go watch any test.

Biltong has a point.

The bile that was poured on the South Africans on the old 606 during the Lions test was absolutely disgusting.

There were many posters who were very upset with the combination of the blatent gouge, the very lenient treatment and the daft comments by PDV. However most managed to maintain a level head and direct their ire at those individuals concerned but, unfortunately there were some who just used it as an excuse to vent their racist tendancies. It was terrible at times.

I still can't get that video to play. Any suggestions?

biltongbek wrote:
Yeah you see, PDV made those comments, and by now we all know he was a clwon when dealing with the media, question is though, how many times do you think you have to listen to Burger or Bakkies or whoever being climbed into on a daily basis. Eventually there are those that will explode. I know I got gatvol of listening to SA players are thugs and the dirtiest ever and the this and the taht, and it just went on and on and on and on.

Point is, lust look at how quickly and how many posts there has been since I mentioned Burger on this thread, immediately there were varied responses,

I am getting back to my original point and didn't really want to belabor this issue.

Perhaps people in glass houses shouldn't so readily and with so much gusto throw stones, the shoe can very quickly be on the other foot.

I can't agree with the bolded bit.You're basically saying I shouldn't criticse foul play by a player from another nation because some time in the future a player from my country is bound to do something similar.That makes no sense,I can happily criticise Burger and McLaughlin both deserved to be punished and I don't see why I should hold back.It would be different if I was calling for leniency on McLaughlins part while saying Burger should have had the book thrown at him.

The thing here is that no Irish fans are defending McLaughlin so I can't see how your point works in this case.

No doubt, Botha was harshly treated, but I thought that "Justice 4" thing was a really bad call. Justice comes in different shapes and sizes (as every Irish and South African person knows only too well) and justice on a rugby be field is the low end of things. I thought the armbands were an overreaction.

MrsP wrote:Guys,

I can't seem to get that video to play. Anyone else have probs or am I just doing something stupid?

You really want me to answer that?!

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

biltongbek wrote:
Yeah you see, PDV made those comments, and by now we all know he was a clwon when dealing with the media, question is though, how many times do you think you have to listen to Burger or Bakkies or whoever being climbed into on a daily basis. Eventually there are those that will explode. I know I got gatvol of listening to SA players are thugs and the dirtiest ever and the this and the taht, and it just went on and on and on and on.

Point is, lust look at how quickly and how many posts there has been since I mentioned Burger on this thread, immediately there were varied responses,

I am getting back to my original point and didn't really want to belabor this issue.

Perhaps people in glass houses shouldn't so readily and with so much gusto throw stones, the shoe can very quickly be on the other foot.

I can't agree with the bolded bit.You're basically saying I shouldn't criticse foul play by a player from another nation because some time in the future a player from my country is bound to do something similar.That makes no sense,I can happily criticise Burger and McLaughlin both deserved to be punished and I don't see why I should hold back.It would be different if I was calling for leniency on McLaughlins part while saying Burger should have had the book thrown at him.

The thing here is that no Irish fans are defending McLaughlin so I can't see how your point works in this case.

mate, stating a fact is just that, if there was fould play it should be shown up, cited and sorted.

I am talking about the lynch mob reaction, not the facts.

Too right biltong.

I could imagine you having to defend SA's rugby honour 'in general' during the Botha incident with a baying pack at your heels, that'd be wearisome. None of us are saying the Irish are a bunch of eye gouging-head kneeing cheats (both McCaw/Irish incidents), that'd be throwing stones in glass houses.

I don't think anyone is condoning foul play, it's just highlighting how some of us react to some incidents and then make sweeping unfair generalisations about a team's rugby philosophy.

biltongbek wrote:
mate, stating a fact is just that, if there was fould play it should be shown up, cited and sorted.

I am talking about the lynch mob reaction, not the facts.

Ah okay I think I see where you're coming from now

Yeah it went ott in a lot of places however I think that's the unfortunate nature of internet forums and there's nothing you can do about it.

true.

EBOP wrote:Too right biltong.

I could imagine you having to defend SA's rugby honour 'in general' during the Botha incident with a baying pack at your heels, that'd be wearisome. None of us are saying the Irish are a bunch of eye gouging-head kneeing cheats (both McCaw/Irish incidents), that'd be throwing stones in glass houses.

I don't think anyone is condoning foul play, it's just highlighting how some of us react to some incidents and then make sweeping unfair generalisations about a team's rugby philosophy.

Again, the Burger and Botha incident were against the Lions. It was the media that mostly kicked up a storm, the British one I may add, which would have nothing to do with Ireland. Just because one NH does one things doesn't mean that it's mutually accepted by the other NH teams. This is reflected in this very thread with the acknowledgement and acceptance from every Irish poster that McLaughlin should have been cited.

Gretgael, I will concede to you the irish posters on here have alwasy been exemplary in their objectivity.

They aren't wums and acknowledge fair play or unfair play, no matter the side.

biltongbek wrote:Gretgael, I will concede to you the irish posters on here have alwasy been exemplary in their objectivity.

They aren't wums and acknowledge fair play or unfair play, no matter the side.

Likewise, Sir

biltongbek wrote:Gretgael, I will concede to you the irish posters on here have alwasy been exemplary in their objectivity.

They aren't wums and acknowledge fair play or unfair play, no matter the side.

OK lets not exagerrate Biltong!.... .....

Well you do have DOD and sin e

Be careful Biltong, mention their name 3 times on a thread and they'll suddenly appear!!!!

MrsP wrote:Biltong has a point.

The bile that was poured on the South Africans on the old 606 during the Lions test was absolutely disgusting.

There were many posters who were very upset with the combination of the blatent gouge, the very lenient treatment and the daft comments by PDV. However most managed to maintain a level head and direct their ire at those individuals concerned but, unfortunately there were some who just used it as an excuse to vent their racist tendancies. It was terrible at times.

I still can't get that video to play. Any suggestions?

What video?

But Gretgael, that is the point. You guys arent firing up, we're not firing up, it's all been a bit of a flop really. We havn't made disparaging comments about McLaughlin or Irish rugby. You guys havnt had to retort with the BOD thing. We then havn't had to respond with the 'you guys havnt ever beaten us' slam dunk petty nonsense.

It could've been such a different thread, it wasn't, respect to yas Irish

Anyways, good (cough) luck tomorrow

EBOP wrote:But Gretgael, that is the point. You guys arent firing up, we're not firing up, it's all been a bit of a flop really. We havn't made disparaging comments about McLaughlin or Irish rugby. You guys havnt had to retort with the BOD thing. We then havn't had to respond with the 'you guys havnt ever beaten us' slam dunk petty nonsense.

It could've been such a different thread, it wasn't, respect to yas Irish

Anyways, good (cough) luck tomorrow

Cheers EBOP for the wishes.

I personally wish all kinds of fear, famine, destruction and Suzie on New Zealand over the next 24 hours!

Most of the rage at the time was due to the Boks coaches response to the Burger incident.

But the people that still "hate" Burger are the same people who like to try to get one over any opposition fans regardless of hemisphere. Best to take them all with a pinch of salt really

EBOP wrote:But Gretgael, that is the point. You guys arent firing up, we're not firing up, it's all been a bit of a flop really. We havn't made disparaging comments about McLaughlin or Irish rugby. You guys havnt had to retort with the BOD thing. We then havn't had to respond with the 'you guys havnt ever beaten us' slam dunk petty nonsense.

It could've been such a different thread, it wasn't, respect to yas Irish

Anyways, good (cough) luck tomorrow

Right back at ya

rodders wrote:The Dagg incident is unrelated

No. The reaction is what we discuss. I don't see Irish posters rush in to condemn the action. In fact they normally so talkative by so silently on this topic.

red_stag wrote:

EBOP wrote:But Gretgael, that is the point. You guys arent firing up, we're not firing up, it's all been a bit of a flop really. We havn't made disparaging comments about McLaughlin or Irish rugby. You guys havnt had to retort with the BOD thing. We then havn't had to respond with the 'you guys havnt ever beaten us' slam dunk petty nonsense.

It could've been such a different thread, it wasn't, respect to yas Irish

Anyways, good (cough) luck tomorrow

Cheers EBOP for the wishes.

I personally wish all kinds of fear, famine, destruction and Suzie on New Zealand over the next 24 hours!

Aw shucks stag, I see what you're doing, trying to lull us in with a false sense of security and all. Not falling for that one buddy

Lucky nobody has to wishing such terrible things to Ireland because it cant be worse than what they doing to themselves already.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Lucky nobody has to wishing such terrible things to Ireland because it cant be worse than what they doing to themselves already.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

rodders wrote:The Dagg incident is unrelated

No. The reaction is what we discuss. I don't see Irish posters rush in to condemn the action. In fact they normally so talkative by so silently on this topic.

Thats because McLaughlin is a big bloke and we have to live on the same Island as him......

sissies.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

MrsP wrote:Biltong has a point.

The bile that was poured on the South Africans on the old 606 during the Lions test was absolutely disgusting.

There were many posters who were very upset with the combination of the blatent gouge, the very lenient treatment and the daft comments by PDV. However most managed to maintain a level head and direct their ire at those individuals concerned but, unfortunately there were some who just used it as an excuse to vent their racist tendancies. It was terrible at times.

I still can't get that video to play. Any suggestions?

What video?

The video in the article showing McLaughlin doing whatever it is he's doing!

There's no video in that link MrsP MMC had a gif of it somewhere but I couldn't find the post. Here's a vid of it though: http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-Was-Richie-McCaw-repeatedly-eye-gouged-by-the-Irish/tabid/317/articleID/258752/Default.aspx

First time I had seen this video. I can't for the life of me understand why he hasn't been cited. Let's imagine that the All Blacks decided not to do anything about it, surely the citing commissioner would have picked up on it? It is very strange indeed. I'd expect that McLaughlin might get a taste of All Black justice at the bottom of a ruck in the morning. Unfortunately for McLaughlin, McCaw is cleverer at it than, oh, let's say Jamie Heaslip.

It hasn't gone completely unnoticed it seems - the photo on this report looks pretty bad.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ireland-flanker-kevin-mclaughlin-accused-of-eyegouging-in-new-zealand-test-3146925.html

Photos are no good for things like this. From the video it looks like it starts out as him pulling on McCaw's face, definite contact with the eyes. Probably 12 weeks ban, modified with the usual mitigating factors. Then he does the same thing again. Now you're getting up to the point where he MUST know what he's doing and you're up to Best's level of 18 weeks+. Then at the end, as McCaw is pulled out, McLaughlin's left hand seems to be reaching for McCaw's face (seems doesn't mean much but makes things look worse).

I wonder why no one from the ABs has issued a complaint? Would Mccaw have had to have made the complaint first? I'm not sure how these things work.

It looks bad, it is bad. But for whatever reason he hasn't been cited. Its not right but he's playing tomorrow so from our point of view we need to draw a line under it and move on. Hopefully it won't effect our team.

If the Kiwis want some retribution on the field, so be it.

Apart from this nasty incident, last weeks game was ferocious but played in good spirit, with no quarter given and I hope for more of the same tomorrow .

Yeah I think it is best to forget about it, besides the retribution by the all blacks is more likely going to be an attempted thrashing.

In my defence.

There is a link at the top of the page that the OP posted marked "Videos".

I clicked on that and then tried to watch the one about the "Richie Rake". I couldn't get it to work.

Starts of as clumsy hands to face, still an offense, you have to make an effort NOT to rake someone's face, even by accident. It then looks like he's making an effort to repeatedly make contact.

Very serious in my view, one poke in the eye could do damage, repeated efforts is totally out of order. Seems totally out of character for the guy, but fair is fair and he should have been punished for this.

And I'm an Irish fan for the record

I am more than happy that the ABs and McCaw did not lay a complaint against MC Laughlain, (and Rougerie) it is not the New Zealand way, and we know better ways of using such situations for our advantage.

But heres something for McLaughlin to ponder "take a look at the scoreboard".

aucklandlaurie wrote:
I am more than happy that the ABs and McCaw did not lay a complaint against MC Laughlain, (and Rougerie) it is not the New Zealand way, and we know better ways of using such situations for our advantage.

But heres something for McLaughlin to ponder "take a look at the scoreboard".

How is that relevant? Oh right, I see, cheaters never prosper, because that's always the case I think take a look at himself would be more apt.

The whole incident with McLaughlin is bull. He was trying too get him out of the ruck, went to pull him out of it, and made contact with his face a couple of time. He didn't go intentionally to gouge him - McCaw got a facial - as have lots of players when they're in the wrong place and making a nuisance of themselves.

Nothing to see here - and neither did the citing guys.

Evening Pot Hale, enjoying the test series?

Ah come on Pot, there's no such thing as a 'facial' these days... he grabs McCaw 2 or 3 times round the face... regardless of whether gouging was the intention (and I don't believe it was) it is dangerous, a serious offence and warrants a ban.

rodders wrote:Ah come on Pot, there's no such thing as a 'facial' these days... he grabs McCaw 2 or 3 times round the face... regardless of whether gouging was the intention (and I don't believe it was) it is dangerous, a serious offence and warrants a ban.

Unlesss you are doing it to Dylan Hartley in which case he deserves a ban?

That comment is not as bad Pot as Kearn's comments about McCaw when Rougerie was getting him out of the back of a ruck. But it is more or less the same vein: foul play deserves fouler play.

biltongbek wrote:Yeah I think it is best to forget about it, besides the retribution by the all blacks is more likely going to be an attempted thrashing.

Mnr Biltong, jy is n siener

Mr Fishpaste wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Yeah I think it is best to forget about it, besides the retribution by the all blacks is more likely going to be an attempted thrashing.

Mnr Biltong, jy is n siener

Ja, van die suburbs.

Looks like this man get bad injury in the game today and not on the ball.

Interesting...

biltongbek wrote:It is the way the cookie crumbles, I remember the extreme uproar when Burger did it, there are still posters on here 3 years later that will tell you they hate Schalk Burger, it is the same with the Bakkies incident during the British and Irish tour in 2009, Jones injured his shoulder with Bakkies charging into him at a ruck, the outrage for something that happens in every match was ridiculous, it happened with Pocock last weekend, when(can't remember the plaeyr's name) launched into Pocock in a ruck.

I guess the lesson in this is people in glass houses shouldn't be so keen to throw stones.

That's true, but to be fair if someone gouges one of your players you're entitled to think that's a disgusting and disgraceful act. If one of your players then subsequently does the same, you should be decent enough to recognise that the same applies. It seems to me that is exactly what the Irish posters on here are doing. So good on them. Equally, it seems most of the NZ supporters have recognised that. Good on them too.

There doesn't need to be anything more than that so everyone else agitating just looks like they have an axe to grind.

And on Burger, for my mind it was horrendous but out of character. No-one's whiter than white.