Saints to investigate Mo Tweet

First topic message reminder :

Saints are investigating a tweet made South African hooker Brett Sharman about (Sir) Mo Farah.

Why do sportsman keep making silly comments on Twitter etc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19356648

GLove39 wrote:Interesting to see that at Northampton Saints posting an idiotic tweet is treated much more seriously than deliberately breaking an opponents arm... *cough* Calum Clark *cough*

Yeah but phyisical violence is not the nations pet hate.

I'm not sure ignorance can be that much of an excuse.

Having said that, it's one thing not having the knowledge or geographical/ethnic awareness, but why did he just assume that Farah was from Pakistan? Seems a bit odd unless he was mis-informed or just thought that it was catch-all area for people called Mohammed.

sugarNspikes wrote:I'm not sure ignorance can be that much of an excuse.

Having said that, it's one thing not having the knowledge or geographical/ethnic awareness, but why did he just assume that Farah was from Pakistan? Seems a bit odd unless he was mis-informed or just thought that it was catch-all area for people called Mohammed.

And where do you find people called Dai, Jimmy, Paddy, Tarquin, or Jean-Baptiste? I bet you had a nation in your mind for all of them, so that makes you a racist?

The Saints response is interesting.

You could argue that they'd have been better setting an example by making public the real reason for the dismissal. Perhaps on the other hand they didn't feel they had a sufficiently strong case for doing so, and that his knee was the only legitimate legal grounds for getting rid of him (grounds they were happy to live with until his Twitter comment).

There's no debating the stupidity and insensitivity of the comment. He's certainly paid a high price though.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:I'm not sure ignorance can be that much of an excuse.

Having said that, it's one thing not having the knowledge or geographical/ethnic awareness, but why did he just assume that Farah was from Pakistan? Seems a bit odd unless he was mis-informed or just thought that it was catch-all area for people called Mohammed.

And where do you find people called Dai, Jimmy, Paddy, Tarquin, or Jean-Baptiste? I bet you had a nation in your mind for all of them, so that makes you a racist?

I didn't said he was a racist. I'm just a bit confused by how he came to his conclusion.

Can't believe you used 'Tarquin' as an example!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Boorish comment from Sharman. If you are going to make a stupid comment like that at least get the country right - it's Somalia!

That is a racist comment in itself is it not? (based on him being a white South African, possibly of Boor decent?)

Interestingly enough I think the word boorish does come from Boor which indeed did originated from the Boer's. Does it make it racist to use a highly appropriate comment to describe Sharman?

I suppose it's where the stereotype comes from. Not saying the stereotype is necessarily correct by the way. Surely it's xenophobia not racism? I always see racism as about skin colour. Xenophobia about attacking a specific nationaltiy. Not that I believe I am by the way.

beshocked wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Boorish comment from Sharman. If you are going to make a stupid comment like that at least get the country right - it's Somalia!

That is a racist comment in itself is it not? (based on him being a white South African, possibly of Boor decent?)

Interestingly enough I think the word boorish does come from Boor which indeed did originated from the Boer's. Does it make it racist to use a highly appropriate comment to describe Sharman?

...

Not exactly - the two words have the same origin (originally meaning "herdsman" or "peasant farmer" in Dutch and English), in 16C English the meaning was twisted to refer to country bumpkins, and evolved from there.

sugarNspikes wrote:Can't believe you used 'Tarquin' as an example!

Yeah but come on everyone knows that 90% of the French male population is called Tarquin! Being serious I couldn't think of a English-specific name bar Geoff (and the Geoff on here is an Ulsterman, so I couldn't use it).

A minor point that really doesn't matter but Farah's father was born and raised in England. Doesn't make him more British in my eyes but it seems important to some.

It was just a really really stupid thing to said. Either he's an idiot or a bigot. No way to know. I imagine I would have been sacked or at least disciplined if it was me (NHS).

'Shocked - to be honest i think Boorish does sum up his tweet pretty well, and I aint sure if it does come from Boer, or from boar (as in the headstrong animal). But I was just trying to be a bit of a pendant, and show how easy it is to jump on a comment that was innocent enough and spin it into a hate crime.

We are all prejudiced and we all take one look at someone and come to an opinion about them, and if we say we don't we are lying. I think my wife has the best idea, her favourite phrase when any -ist is thrown at her is " I am not <insert -ist here>, I just hate you all!".

Dont really see how his comments can be taken as anything other than offensive minimum, racist probably. First of all he says 'Mohammad' when the overwhelming majority of people call him Mo or Farah, surely doing so to try and highlight a 'foreign' name. The pak1 part in my eyes was not intended as racist just an unfortunate coincidence. Mainly I have to agree with others as to why he thinks hes from Pakistan???????? He looks about as Pakistani as Keith Lemon.
Everyone makes mistakes, but this isnt the same as saying something to your mate in the pub, I wouldnt say that to one of my mates, and we make plenty of racist jokes. What he said isnt even slightly funny.
That being said hes obviously paid a strong penalty and think he should be given the chance to put this behind him.

I can't believe a lame and factually incorrect joke about 'plastic brits' is worse than what Clarke did.

I can't beleive Kingjohn is a racist, admitted to telling racist jokes!!

I'm no expert on social media IT, but isn't it possible to just delete and/ignore the comments of the intellectually challenged (he's Somali not Pakistani) on Twitter/Facebook?

The only reason people make a fuss over this kind of inconsequential trivia is that people start making a fuss over it.

You can't legislate against stupid.

Casartelli wrote:You can't legislate against stupid.

Good job too otherwise the majority of us on here would be banged up.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I can't beleive Kingjohn is a racist, admitted to telling racist jokes!!

Probably to quite a few people but not to anyone who I care about. In my experience, friendly non malicious jokes with people that you are good friends is a good way to break down barriers between people with different cultural backgrounds. Whether its taking the urine out of a chinese friend for wanting rice with every meal or bangledeshi friend eating a hot dog not realising it was pork-things we can have a laugh about, but things I would never say to someone I didnt know or to someone that would be upset by it.

kingjohn7 wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:I can't beleive Kingjohn is a racist, admitted to telling racist jokes!!

Probably to quite a few people but not to anyone who I care about. In my experience, friendly non malicious jokes with people that you are good friends is a good way to break down barriers between people with different cultural backgrounds. Whether its taking the urine out of a chinese friend for wanting rice with every meal or bangledeshi friend eating a hot dog not realising it was pork-things we can have a laugh about, but things I would never say to someone I didnt know or to someone that would be upset by it.

I made a mistake when I met my inlaws for the first time. My father inlaw told me 'we are honest folk and call a spade a spade'. I made a throw away comment, and it took a while (a year or so) for him to decide I was not a racist.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
I made a mistake when I met my inlaws for the first time. My father inlaw told me 'we are honest folk and call a spade a spade'. I made a throw away comment, and it took a while (a year or so) for him to decide I was not a racist.

. Have had many similar situations where a joke just presents itself infront of me and have to try(not always successfully) to bite my lip.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Casartelli wrote:You can't legislate against stupid.

Good job too otherwise the majority of us on here would be banged up.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Boorish comment from Sharman. If you are going to make a stupid comment like that at least get the country right - it's Somalia!

That is a racist comment in itself is it not? (based on him being a white South African, possibly of Boor decent?)

Is there no difference between a boor or a boer or indeed a boar?

I notice that English language CCSE results took a hammering yesterday.
And about time too.

Have to say on the racist/overly politically correctness

Anyone ever notice that durning the Euros former Celtic and Ireland goalkeeper Packie Bonner was always referred to as Patrick Bonner, It took my auld fella a while to catch on who they were talking about when they said they were going over to Patrick Bonner "Who..., oh they mean Packie Bonner, now he was a great goalkeeper son, Given is maybe better, both Donegal men you know, don't know what it is there that makes great keepers etc etc"

Submachine wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:The way any comment or post from a social media site can go viral means that players should assume that what they are writing is for the front page of the newspaper instead of thinking about it like a flippant comment in a pub among mates.

But thats the point isn't it? Why should players be less stupid than anyone else? Given the amount of head injuries they sustain it's a wonder they don't make a horlicks of it more often. Do you believe they should be more careful because they are in the public eye? We are all in the public eye because of social media.
Try this. Google yourself. you will probably find some public figures with your name at the top of the page but your personal facebook page will also be suggested. If someone is looking for your famous namesake and clicks into your virtual world you will be surprised at how much of your life they will be able to access.
There is a famous artist in Ireland with the same name as me and if I was of a mind I am sure I could steal his entre identity and clear out his accounts.

I only said players above as the individual in question is a player. My previous post is equally true for everyone. It is just a case that players usually have more followers so anything they write will be seen by more people creating higher chance of reaction. Also, journalists regularly follow the tweets of sportsmen, and their job is to fill newspaper column inches. Scanning tweets is an easy way to find something to turn into a story. But any posting onto the internet, even posting stuff on sites like this one, means your accountable for what you've said and at the mercy of the reader to pick up on any 'humour' in the way you intended or to be offended by that 'humour'.

Not sure if it's been mentioned before now but Sharman has been axed from Saints.

The club have cancelled his contract today and have parted ways apparently due to an on going knee injury but reading between the lines it looks like they weren't impressed with the bad press and decided to do the right thing.

yappysnap wrote:Not sure if it's been mentioned before now but Sharman has been axed from Saints.

The club have cancelled his contract today and have parted ways apparently due to an on going knee injury but reading between the lines it looks like they weren't impressed with the bad press and decided to do the right thing.

The right thing being what, exactly?

Like stepping on egg shells. You have to be so careful these days (in the UK) or risk being accused of being a racist.

beshocked wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Boorish comment from Sharman. If you are going to make a stupid comment like that at least get the country right - it's Somalia!

That is a racist comment in itself is it not? (based on him being a white South African, possibly of Boor decent?)

Interestingly enough I think the word boorish does come from Boor which indeed did originated from the Boer's. Does it make it racist to use a highly appropriate comment to describe Sharman?

I suppose it's where the stereotype comes from. Not saying the stereotype is necessarily correct by the way. Surely it's xenophobia not racism? I always see racism as about skin colour. Xenophobia about attacking a specific nationaltiy. Not that I believe I am by the way.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=boor
boor (n.)
13c., from O.Fr. bovier "herdsman," from L. bovis, gen. of bos "cow, ox." Re-introduced 16c. from Du. boer, from M.Du. gheboer "fellow dweller," from P.Gmc. *buram "dweller," especially "farmer," from PIE *bhu-, from root *bheue- (see be). Original meaning was "peasant farmer" (cf. Ger. Bauer, Du. boer, Dan. bonde), and in English it was at first applied to agricultural laborers in or from other lands, as opposed to the native yeoman; negative connotation first attested 1560s (in boorish), from notion of clownish rustics. Related: Boorishness.

So it is (Du. boer) - in a round-about way.
Strange. But nice to know.

I don't understand what the problem was here apart from the stupidity of thinking he was originally from Pakistan & not Somalia............................

If he said "well done on winning gold for Somalia.............sorry i mean GB" surely that is not racist................

I mean if someone had said "well done Philip Hindes on winning a track cycling team gold for Germany............sorry i mean GB" Would that have been an issue????

It wouldn't because Hindes is white and Mo Farah is black, and in PC Britian to make a joke about where a white man is from is ok but to make a joke about where a black man is from is not.............which is ridiculous

Every professional (well all responsible sportsmen, really) player knows that he/she is responsible for what they ingest.

The new(ish) social-networking phenomenon is a matter of what s/he spews out into the elephantine memory if the twittersphere.

I can forsee many casualties (not just sporting) many casualties of the social network later in life. Unlike the immediate ones like the equally-stupid Sharman anf Prince Hal.

Time bombs tick for all manner of politicians, business leaders, celebs etc.

Yeah Port, understand that........ but apart from stupidly saying "person of Asian descent" instead of "soma", there was nothing racist in what he said...........................don't think he intended the "person of Asian descent" reference the way it is sometimes useds to be racist against people from Pakistan or Asians in general, because Mo Farah has obviously nothing to do with Asia!!

He was poking fun at Team GB, albeit ham fistedly, who had the good fortune that this brilliant athlete moved from Somalia to Britian at 7 years of age..........................

No point trying to make more out of this than necessary.............


EDIT - Why the magic computer change the "p" word to "person of Asian descent"!!!!!!! The BBC article uses the "p" word, but 606v2 "magics" it out????

John Cregan wrote:I don't understand what the problem was here apart from the stupidity of thinking he was originally from Pakistan & not Somalia............................

If he said "well done on winning gold for Somalia.............sorry i mean GB" surely that is not racist................

I mean if someone had said "well done Philip Hindes on winning a track cycling team gold for Germany............sorry i mean GB" Would that have been an issue????

It wouldn't because Hindes is white and Mo Farah is black, and in PC Britian to make a joke about where a white man is from is ok but to make a joke about where a black man is from is not.............which is ridiculous

A) it's irrelevant whether it's racist or not- it's still stupid, crass, unfunny and offensive. Mo is British by any intelligent appraisal of nationality, most importantly in that he thinks of himself as British and became offended when a similarly tw*tish reporter asked if he'd prefer to run for Somalia after the Olympics

B) as "person of Asian descent" is a generic offensive term for people with a skin colour other than White, person of Asian descent actually makes the twit's tweet very racist, and the choice of Pakistan could be deliberate which only adds to the racism

C) Not even bothering to make the wrong insult by getting the wrong alternative country that Mo Farah could have been running for if he were an entirely different person living an entirely different life just makes it even more offensive in its casualness


All in all, it's a completely unacceptable and racist tweet.

CJ,

It was just ignorant and stupid, not racist though.
He was trying to poke fun at Team GB (for having the good fortune of this man arriving from africa all those years ago) but not in a nasty way.............

The "P" word.....really only he can answer whether he intended that in the racist connation that it is sometimes used - i would give him the benefit of the doubt..................

Just seems coincidental to pick Pakistan specifically then when Mo clearly isn't from there

CJ,

I won't argue that it was dumb in the extreme, and in my original contribution, i had overlooked the connatation associated with the "p"word....................

Portnoy wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Boorish comment from Sharman. If you are going to make a stupid comment like that at least get the country right - it's Somalia!

That is a racist comment in itself is it not? (based on him being a white South African, possibly of Boor decent?)

Is there no difference between a boor or a boer or indeed a boar?

I notice that English language CCSE results took a hammering yesterday.
And about time too.

Yeah I know, but it was a cheap chance for me to try and get a point across about how the reader of a comment is the one who decides if it is racist or not.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The tweet did not say anything about religion or race (well bar the 5,000m) at all, it mentioned nationality. Can you prove that the intention was to read otherwise?

Sharman calls him Mohammed without mentioning his surname and his implication is clear: that anyone called Mohammed must be less than British. Never mind the fact that it's one of the most popular names for newborns in Britain...

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The tweet did not say anything about religion or race (well bar the 5,000m) at all, it mentioned nationality. Can you prove that the intention was to read otherwise?

Sharman calls him Mohammed without mentioning his surname and his implication is clear: that anyone called Mohammed must be less than British. Never mind the fact that it's one of the most popular names for newborns in Britain...

The fact is that by using someones first name, in full, does not make you a racist!

I haven't called him a racist.

Probably the biggest difference between Philip Hindes and Mo Farah is that I've never known of an instance where a white person has been told they're not British because their parent immigrated here before they were born. I have known plenty of people who truly believe that people who aren't White CANNOT be British or English or whatever, regardless of where they were born.

At best it was stupid joke to make in a public forum. At worst it was a suggestion that even though he's lived here since he was 7, he shouldn't be representing Britain because his British father moved to Somalia and met his mother their.

Treat it as a best case scenario and if I was making a decision whether to keep him or not due to medical reasons; it would make my mind up. He's on a second choice contract and he's behind Haywood now anyway. Isn't another England youth player at Saints anyway?

HammerofThunor wrote:Isn't another England youth player at Saints anyway?

Yes there is: Osama al Jazeera. He's Cornish.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Isn't another England youth player at Saints anyway?

Yes there is: Osama al Jazeera. He's Cornish.

Actually I just looked at their squad and they've only got three hookers in their senior squad and no-one stands out in their academy as a name I've heard of. I imagine they'll be looking for someone, possible from the championship. Especially for international period