Leaves in bunkers

My understanding of the rules is that you cannot move or even touch any leaves that are in a bunker.
So, given that bunkers are really quite good collecting points for piles of leaves this time of year ,
what are you supposed to do if your ball ends up under a pile of them ?
Im presuming that you can at least move them so that you can identify your ball ..
but then what ? put them back ? so you cant even see it ?
totally ridiculous rule if you ask me !

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Rule 12.1 -

In addition to the methods of searching for and identifying a ball that are
otherwise permitted by the Rules, the player may also search for and identify
a ball under Rule 12-1 as follows:
a. Searching for or Identifying Ball Covered by Sand
If the player’s ball lying anywhere on the course is believed to be covered
by sand, to the extent that he cannot find or identify it, he may, without
penalty, touch or move the sand in order to find or identify the ball. If the
ball is found, and identified as his, the player must re-create the lie as nearly
as possible by replacing the sand. If the ball is moved during the touching or
moving of sand while searching for or identifying the ball, there is no penalty;
the ball must be replaced and the lie re-created.
In re-creating a lie under this Rule, the player is permitted to leave a small
part of the ball visible.

b. Searching for or Identifying Ball Covered by Loose Impediments in Hazard
In a hazard, if the player’s ball is believed to be covered by loose impediments
to the extent that he cannot find or identify it, he may, without penalty,
touch or move loose impediments in order to find or identify the ball. If
the ball is found or identified as his, the player must replace the loose
impediments. If the ball is moved during the touching or moving of loose
impediments while searching for or identifying the ball, Rule 18-2a applies; if
the ball is moved during the replacement of the loose impediments, there is
no penalty and the ball must be replaced.
If the ball was entirely covered by loose impediments, the player must
re-cover the ball but is permitted to leave a small part of the ball visible.

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So you can move enough leaves as you need to find the ball, then replace them (except for leaving a small part of the ball so you can hit it).

If leaves in bunkers are an issue, there's an R&A local rule that allows a bit more latitude. Might be worth getting your club to pass it.

We were discussing the rule about taking a drop from casual water in bunkers and the ruling now is that you can take maximum'possible'relief.So you could drop in the bunker but still be standing in the water.interesting

I think you can move a leaf or as few leaves as necessary to allow you to either identify it (or be able to turn the ball in situ to identify it as yours). Otherwise, thou shalt not move the leaves lest ye have a 2 shot penalty or lose the hole in matchplay.

I think they are loose impediments so, as with stones in bunkers, the Committee may make a local rule permitting removal of them. (otherwise it's a bit of a b*gger at this time of year on a deciduous tree lined course!)

Hopefully the greens staff would empty all bunkers daily thus mitigating the cumulative effect, but obviously they still fall and accumulate each day.

Dynamark - it's maximum AVAILABLE relief, rather than possible relief.

So if there's a dry bit somewhere (not nearer the hole) you can drop the ball there, even if you are standing in water to play it. You don't have to move the ball onto a severe slope in the bunker because it's completely dry, nor move it out of the bunker under penalty.

Yes thats spot on George TBF the point being if you dont know that rule you could easily think the penalty drop outside was your only option

More than that, if the bunker is completely under water, the area where the water is at its shallowest is the maximum avaialbe relief, so you could actually be playing both standing in water and with the ball slightly submerged. You can, of course, take the penalty drop outside if you prefer.

cheers guys ! .. we do indeed have a tree lined course , bunkers are normally emptied by greenstaff , but these pesky leaves even seem to fall during the weekends when theres no-one 'on' ..
I shall have to see if there are any local rules about it, as its a tad harsh when you can hardly see the bloomin thing! .. Im bad enough out of sand in normal conditions.
equally frustrating is walking up to your ball in the fairway only to find it perched on top of a neat pile of leaves .. very off-putting.. roll on placing !

dynamark wrote:Yes thats spot on George TBF the point being if you dont know that rule you could easily think the penalty drop outside was your only option

You've always got the option of playing it as it lies. You're often better off playing it from a little bit of water than dropping and getting a bit of a "poached egg".

I found my self in a bunker with a pine cone directly behind the ball the other day.

why the heckins dont they just allow you to move loose impediments from bunkers?
you are supposed to be able to play out of them after all , they are a hazard in themselves (well to us 'normal' golfers)
fair enough from water hazards, where you are 'meant' to take a penalty drop - but to me its just stupid that you can move any 'non natural' objects, but nothing that is 'natural' .. just barmy and just results in randomly (un)lucky outcomes.

busted wrote:why the heckins dont they just allow you to move loose impediments from bunkers?
you are supposed to be able to play out of them after all , they are a hazard in themselves (well to us 'normal' golfers)
fair enough from water hazards, where you are 'meant' to take a penalty drop - but to me its just stupid that you can move any 'non natural' objects, but nothing that is 'natural' .. just barmy and just results in randomly (un)lucky outcomes.

Because that would be far too sensible. A bit being guaranteed a decent lie after hitting a fairway rather than having to play out of a huge divot.

this is the longest bunker related thread ive ever read without someone saying "just dont hit it in the bunker" or "they are supposed to be hazards!"

busted wrote:why the heckins dont they just allow you to move loose impediments from bunkers?
you are supposed to be able to play out of them after all , they are a hazard in themselves (well to us 'normal' golfers)
fair enough from water hazards, where you are 'meant' to take a penalty drop - but to me its just stupid that you can move any 'non natural' objects, but nothing that is 'natural' .. just barmy and just results in randomly (un)lucky outcomes.

The whole game of golf is based upon random (un) lucky outcomes. Gusts of wind, unlucky bounces, lucky bounces, thinned shots hitting the flag and dropping next to the pin, need I go on. You could be in the fairway on an upslope with your ball resting against a pinecone, twig, branch, stone, whatever and you would have to play it since if you moved the "whatever" the ball would move. Unlucky - yes, but that's golf!!

i just want justice , thats all !

So you want to accept all the good luck but none of the bad? Is that justice?

yup .. that would do for me !
need all the help i can get

busted wrote:why the heckins dont they just allow you to move loose impediments from bunkers?
you are supposed to be able to play out of them after all , they are a hazard in themselves (well to us 'normal' golfers)
fair enough from water hazards, where you are 'meant' to take a penalty drop - but to me its just stupid that you can move any 'non natural' objects, but nothing that is 'natural' .. just barmy and just results in randomly (un)lucky outcomes.

Sorry, must have missed it. What's not natural about fallen leaves????