Saints v Ulster Friday HEC 7th December

First topic message reminder :

So the big double header kicks off at Franklin's Gardens on Friday evening. Both teams will believe a win is possible but who will prevail?

Ulster coach Mark Anscombe says Ulster will need to improve on the current form. I would agree, though the disruption of Autumn Internationals wouldn't have helped.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/19701.php#.ULyVo-RWySo

Interesting interview with Pat Lam (Former Saints captain) who actually thinks these sides could face each other in the Final next May.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchdaytv?play=media&id=13581

Ulster XV & replacements to face Northampton Saints, Heineken Cup, Friday 7th December, Franklin's Gardens (8.00pm):
(15-9): J Payne; T Bowe, D Cave, P Wallace, A Trimble; P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (c), D Tuohy, I Henderson, C Henry, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): N Brady, C Black, R Lutton, R Diack, N Williams, P Marshall, L Marshall, C Gilroy.

Northampton XV.

(15-9): B Foden; K Pisi, G Pisi, D Waldouck, J Elliott; R Lamb, M Roberts;

(1-8): S Tonga'uiha, D Hartley (c), B Mujati, S Manoa, C Lawes, C Clark, T Wood, G van Velze;

Replacements (16-23): M Haywood, A Waller, P Doran-Jones, M Sorenson, P Dowson, L Dickson, S Myler, T May.

SecretFly wrote:Will Anscombe be a very nice man if Ulster lose form? I mean to say, will he have the personality to cause ripples in the rock pool if Ulster were to start sliding?

This is not about Ulster. They're doing just fine. Not a swipe at them at all. But Anscombe seems a grim kind of man even with his 10 out of 10! To start talking combatively already about players missing out on an opportunity to impress him on the last game, suggests to me that he wouldn't be adverse to refining his disgruntlement with players, or wouldn't be shy of directing blame their way if a slide in form happened.

I just think it a little early in his tenure to be throwing missiles over the bow of players, given how well they've operated for him so far this season.

Ulster HAVE lost form, thats his problem. We have put out three back to back performances that were very poor. You're quite right though. I just don't necessarily see it as a bad thing.

I was trying to be nice there, Notch. Yes, form has dipped...but how much of that is smokescreen? I've watched too much Munster and Leinster to be totally convinced that Ulster wouldn't be trying to keep cards tight to the chest in advance of HEC.

But on Anscombe. I suppose it depends on individual temperament. If players respond better to an abrasive, tell-it-like-it-is character, so be it. But I just think he could have kept his whistle clean on mentioning players a little bit longer.

Seems like Saints are singing from the same hymn sheet;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20580864?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

It's three weeks in a row we've won games by our opponents deficiencies than our own good play. He can say it nice or say it harshly, but so long as he's saying 'our form simply isn't good enough right now' I'm fine with it.

Got to agree with notch here. 3 turd performances in a row.

Needs a massive improvement before the HEC. Hopefully things will improve with muller,Pienaar and best back though

SecretFly wrote:I was trying to be nice there, Notch. Yes, form has dipped...but how much of that is smokescreen? I've watched too much Munster and Leinster to be totally convinced that Ulster wouldn't be trying to keep cards tight to the chest in advance of HEC.

Exactly fly... Ancombe has to stick to the rhetoric to keep the players on their toes. Bowe's comments are closer to the mark, he knows that was a fantastic win on Sunday in terrible conditions... Ulster couldn't be in better nick heading into the Saints game.

League form will count for nothing at Franklins Gardens. This is a massive step up but I'm sure everyone concerned understands that and knows we need a huge performance on Friday.

How have Saints been going in the AP? Havent seen much lately.

He hasn't singled out anyone for criticism, rather collectively as an underperforming group. I think this is right. If he was saying things in the garden were rosy he would be getting it in the neck for being blase.

Golden wrote:How have Saints been going in the AP? Havent seen much lately.

Form Guide
30/11/12 Sharks 16 - 27 Saints
24/11/12 Saints 23 - 16 L Welsh
18/11/12 Dragons 20 - 30 Saints (LV Cup)

Currently third in AP.

they just won 2 in a row and had lost 3 in a row before that, that clash v sale was covered in fog so it was a hard win for them. They will give us one hell of a game but I do think we can win away.

No Saints fans around?

Obviously they are in good nick but I don't think there is a great correllation between league form and Heino form. It's a clean slate for both sides.

What matters is you have two strong sides with KO aspirations and it's about who can deliver the big performances over two weekends.

Any Saints fans care to venture what their HEC team might be?

Any Ulster fans realize that Nick Williams is a cousin of Sonny Bill Williams? Explains some of his crazy offloads.

Nows theres a family you wouldn't mess with a pro boxer and a hulk

Artful_Dodger wrote:Any Ulster fans realize that Nick Williams is a cousin of Sonny Bill Williams? Explains some of his crazy offloads.

Well that explains a lot actually!

They're both afraid of mice. True. Look it up on ESPN player profiles.

rodders wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Any Ulster fans realize that Nick Williams is a cousin of Sonny Bill Williams? Explains some of his crazy offloads.

Well that explains a lot actually!

Yup, sure do. Also Tm Nanai-Williams is his brother, I think.

Explains why Sonny Bill goes after the big paychecks he needs the money to feed his cousin when he visits lol are the shopkeepers still mysteriously closed when Big Nick walks past out of fear Rodders lol

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Any Ulster fans realize that Nick Williams is a cousin of Sonny Bill Williams? Explains some of his crazy offloads.

Well that explains a lot actually!

Yup, sure do. Also Tm Nanai-Williams is his brother, I think.

Brother from another mother?

I think the Williamses are of Samoan extraction.
In many Islander cultures, (like many African cultures) cousins are considered the same as siblings. Much closer than they are in European culture.

No, same mother.

Notch wrote:No, same mother.

Ah. OK. I though with the double barreller and all......

Don't know what the story is. They are brothers though.

Darren Cave has signed a new 2 year contract extension too.
Yet another contract tied up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20585124

Saints haven't been great recently. Their last two wins in the premiership were against Sale and Welsh, two of the worst sides in the league. They're high up in the table due to the good start they had (around 5 wins on the bounce). Hartley's right, they really need to up their game if they want to stand a chance of beating Ulster.

Methinks I am the only Saints fan on 606 at the moment.

I think this will be a ripping pair of matches. Ulster, in my opinion, are one of the best teams in Europe. No doubts. We (Saints) will have to play for a full 80 minutes to have a shot. Referring to Saints recent match against Sale, our esteemed captain Dylan Hartley said......

The Esteemed Captain Dylan Hartley wrote:The message is if we play like that against Ulster next week, yes we'll have a good first half. But Ulster will play for 80 minutes and will come back and beat us. We're going to have to be better."

Couldn't have said it better myself. That is problem number 1 for Saints - failure to play a full 80 in any match this season.

The second biggest problem Saints have, as is well documented, is fly half. I will suffer a physical agony if I see Ryan Lamb pencilled in to start.

Saints have played well enough to win a number of matches this year, but without getting into top gear. The big change for Friday is Huge: This will be the first time this season we will play our preferred XV together. Courtney Lawes seems back close to form. Tom Wood, as we saw on Saturday, is almost back to form as well. Ben Foden is recovering nicely, too. If we are close to being on form, the next two weekends will be great affairs.

If I had to guess, the starting XV will be:
15 Ben Foden
14 Ken Pisi
13 George Pisi
12 Dom Waldouck
11 Vasily Artemyev
10 Stevie Myler
9 Lee Dickson

1 Tiny
2 Dylan Hartley
3 Brian Mujati
4 Samu Manoa
5 Courtney Lawes
6 Calum Clark
7 Tom Wood
8 Phil Dowson

Will seem strange, but this is a match where we will miss Roger Wilson. Would any Ulster supporters mind if we borrowed him for the evening?

Anyone coming to lovely Northampton, namesake of Northamptonshire, Rose of the Shires?
Not back home at the moment, but was there last weekend and hope to be back again by Friday morn.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Any Ulster fans realize that Nick Williams is a cousin of Sonny Bill Williams? Explains some of his crazy offloads.

Well that explains a lot actually!

Yup, sure do. Also Tm Nanai-Williams is his brother, I think.

Brother from another mother?

Nick Williams
New Zealand
Full name Nicholas Uek Nanai Williams
Also known as Nick Nanai

Tim Nanai-Williams
New Zealand
Full name Tim Nanai-Williams

Strange one hyphenates and the other doesn't

doctor_grey wrote:Methinks I am the only Saints fan on 606 at the moment.

Great to have your input then DG

I wouldn't read too much into Saints league form any more than I would Ulsters, especially during the AI window.

Much will comedown to which pack can dominate and who can take the points when they present themselves. Forecast is pretty grim so I don't think this will be a high scoring game.

..and no you can't borrow Roger...

I agree about the battle of the packs. Who ever gets a leg up will have a huge advantage. This is one of the things I like about Ulster. In general, not too dissimilar to Saints. If the teams are pretty even in the pack, then it will come down to the playmakers, and who gets that one break.

I don't think the forecast for Northampton is too bad for Friday. Just cold, but no rain called for at the moment. Hope it does hold off. Friday evenings at the Gardens in December ain't a walk on the beach. But that's the same across our islands, eh?

I will be there on Friday and wanted to go to Belfast for the return match. But I have to stay close next weekend because of family things.

doctor_grey wrote:I agree about the battle of the packs. Who ever gets a leg up will have a huge advantage. This is one of the things I like about Ulster. In general, not too dissimilar to Saints. If the teams are pretty even in the pack, then it will come down to the playmakers, and who gets that one break.

I don't think the forecast for Northampton is too bad for Friday. Just cold, but no rain called for at the moment. Hope it does hold off. Friday evenings at the Gardens in December ain't a walk on the beach. But that's the same across our islands, eh?

I will be there on Friday and wanted to go to Belfast for the return match. But I have to stay close next weekend because of family things.

Hi Doc,

I'll be heading over with a few mates - any tips on good pubs near the ground?

Ta

It's all conjecture, but I suspect if there was a player that Anscomble had wanted to really put his hand up but hadn't, it would be Gilroy. Off the back of his fantastic experience with Ireland and his first cap, he was out-performed by Trimble and Bowe.

I didn't think Tuohy was markedly better than McComb, either.

Don - I reckon you're close to the mark there, MA has already preferred Allen to Gilroy in the Munster game earlier this season, and Sunday has probably edged Trimble in front of him for Friday.

Agree about McComb and Tuohy as well, but I'd still start Tuohy as he has that bit more experience, and McComb is a good guy to spring from the bench.

Agree also. Touhy was fairly screwed over by Ireland again - talked up by everyone into at least a bench spot and yet only ends up playing the Fiji game. As a result he comes back to Ulster having only played once in 4 weeks? Bit out of form and indifferent against the Scarlets. Hopefully he's back to 100% for Friday.

It takes a game or so to get back into the swing of things after the internationals, every team is in the same boat.

The important thing with the Scarlets game is that the set piece was in good nick.

The rest of our game should fall into place when Henry, Payne and Pienaar (perhaps Wallace and Williams too) slot back in. Hopefully we won't be playing in the kind of monsoon conditions we had on Sunday too.

Could well be playing in a blizzard instead lol

As much as I think he'll develop into a handy player, Allen over Gilroy is crazy.

Shoite Pienaar might get frostbite!

"Ulster players among top performers in Heineken Cup Round 1 & 2"

ERC have released stats and comparative analysis of player performance from rounds 1 & 2 of the Amlin Challenge Cup and Heineken Cup.

Rory Best, with an index score of 666, has been named at hooker in the Amlin Opta Index Team of Round One and Two. He is ranked as the 7th best forward.

Paddy Jackson is joint 4th in the top point scorer list with 35 points from the opening two rounds. Recent Ireland cap Iain Henderson is the joint 8th best tackler, making 24 tackles and missing just one.

Ulster will have to watch Northampton winger Ken Pisi closely this Friday; he is joint top try scorer with three and has made 272 metres to date in this season’s Heineken Cup, more than any other player. Saints players Dominic Waldouck and Tom Wood are also among the top 10 tacklers.

Bit of a devil that fella Best ........ ............

rodders wrote:Shoite Pienaar might get frostbite!

Knowing someone who has been to South Africa during their winter I'd say he will be fine lol although everyone might be a bit more like this at the weekend

Head coach Mark Anscombe has added Ruan Pienaar, Chris Henry and Paddy Wallace to his 27 man preliminary squad as they prepare for the first versus second encounter.
Kiwi duo Jared Payne and Nick Williams are also named after being rested for Sunday’s trip to Scarlets.

Experienced hooker Nigel Brady, development prop Ricky Lutton and outside back Michael Allen come in to provide the Ulster management team with further options.

Stephen Ferris, Lewis Stevenson, Declan Fitzpatrick and Adam Macklin remain sidelined through injury.

Ulster go into the game with 9 points from the opening two rounds of the competition, 3 more than their opponents. A win on Friday would give them a very strong position before the return fixture at Ravenhill next week.

Ulster squad to face Northampton Saints, RaboDirect PRO12, Friday 7th December, Franklin’s Gardens, (KO 8.00pm):

Forwards (16)
Rob Herring, Rory Best, Nigel Brady, Ricky Lutton, Callum Black, Tom Court, John Afoa, Neil McComb, Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy, Iain Henderson, Robbie Diack, Chris Henry, Mike McComish, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams.

Backs (11)
Ruan Pienaar, Paul Marshall, Paddy Jackson, Paddy Wallace, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave, Michael Allen, Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Jared Payne.

Don Alfonso wrote:As much as I think he'll develop into a handy player, Allen over Gilroy is crazy.

Is Anscombe just lucky then?

Whaddya mean?

Is he a dice and a meeny mo man?

Michael Allen
Nigel Brady
Mike McComish
Nick Williams
Are the 4 I would leave out of that bunch.

I heard he uses a ouija board but don't tell the Ulster chaplain...

606v2 is actually fun today...and it's been quite a while since I've felt that. Things are looking up. World dominance must be just around the bend. I always feel giddy when we go into a phase of World domination.

Ah its always fun in the Ulster threads these days fly.... think its because we avoided the group with Clermont.... .....

The Great Aukster wrote:Don - I reckon you're close to the mark there, MA has already preferred Allen to Gilroy in the Munster game earlier this season, and Sunday has probably edged Trimble in front of him for Friday.

I wouldn't read too much into that as it was quite a few games ago now.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Michael Allen
Nigel Brady
Mike McComish
Nick Williams
Are the 4 I would leave out of that bunch.

If you're going to leave our most effective ball carrier out, you can't leave out our only other 7 as well. One or other. We could gamble by putting Diack and Williams on the bench with Henderson covering second row.

that would be acceptable. Diack had 7 on his back on sunday. williams could not cover there. tbh mccomb ish is not a hc player in my book. williams is borderline. diack is a bit up and down but at least can cover all back row positions in a pinch.

My gut feeling is Williams will be at 8 or on the bench. No way will Anscombe leave him out, he offers something that only Ferris gives us when he plays. Almost certain to get across the gain line, yes we have other strong ball carriers but these 2 nearly ALWAYS seem to gain ground and provide quick ball. This game will certainly be won up front though, its going to be epic. I can not wait beers in the fridge already. Can't wait for Pienaar to be back in the 9 shirt too he gives us so much composer throughout the teak

Hurry up Friday!!!!!!