1872 Cup Match Thread - Glasgow V Edinburgh

[RDW]

First topic message reminder :

The 1872 Cup: Friday 21 August (kick-off 7.35pm) – live on BBC ALBA

Edinburgh

15 Greig Tonks

14 Lee Jones
13 Matt Scott
12 James King
11 Tim Visser

10 Piers Francis
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN

1 Allan Jacobsen
2 Ross Ford
3 Willem Nel
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Izak van der Westhuizen
6 David Denton
7 Roddy Grant
8 Stuart McInally

Substitutes
16 Andy Titterrell
17 John Yapp
18 Geoff Cross
19 Sean Cox
20 Netani Talei
21 Richie Rees
22 Ben Atiga
23 Dougie Fife

Glasgow

1 Grant
2 MacArthur
3 Low
4 Kellock
5 Swinson
6 Harley
7 Fusaro
8 Wilson

9 Niko
10 Jackson
11 DTH
12 Horne
13 Lamont
14 Maitland
15 Murchie

16 Hall
17 Reid
18 Araoz
19 Gray
20 Eddie
21 Pyrgos
22 Weir
23 Hogg

Glasgow have won the cup 3 years in a row - can Edinburgh reverse the tide? Current form suggests no, but with this being the only thing left in the season to play for there's always a chance. Glasgow need wins to keep momentum in the Rabbo, and Edinburgh can overtake Glasgow in the league if they win both legs (unlikely).

Bring it on!!!!!

[GLove39]

Great chip from Laidlaw and a try for Edinburgh

[George Carlin]

Hogg you monkey!

[tigertattie]

Hogg is really playing himself out of the Scotland team

[GLove39]

Criminal knock on from Stuart Hogg.
Amazing break from DTH & Hogg knocks on from the simple pass a mete out.
Rugby's version of missing an open goal from 5m out.

[GLove39]

Try for Visser next to the posts, game on with 5 to play

[GLove39]

17-21 to Glasgow with 4 minutes to go

[bsando]

Its not laidlaws fault he has no ball and no one to play with. He has been OK

Sorry have to disagree with ya tj, he was so slow at 9. The minute reese came on Edinburgh have become a totally different team. Reese is providing quicker ball. One good chip is doesn't change fact laidlaws had a crap game.

[bsando]

And look he kicks ball away to seal win for Glasgow. Rubbish

[GLove39]

Why did Laidlaw kick the ball and the game away there????
Still well done Glasgow although for a second week in a row they've blown the bonus point

[bsando]

Well done Glasgow, once again dominated 1st half and played the better rugby. Enjoyable game

[tigertattie]

Bye bye Bradley?

[Tramptastic]

Yeh i'd like to see Edinburgh have a new coach - someone to kick them in the face until they remember what it means to be professional rugby players! There were moments where you could see the old edinburgh - putting big men into space again and again then the ball went out wide to Francis who Frak up again and again- useless!

[GLove39]

What I want to know is why for the second week in a row did Edinbirgh not turn up for the entire first half? Why only start playing once there's a mountain to climb?

[Janecory]

Its not laidlaws fault he has no ball and no one to play with. He has been OK

Sorry have to disagree with ya tj, he was so slow at 9. The minute reese came on Edinburgh have become a totally different team. Reese is providing quicker ball. One good chip is doesn't change fact he's had a crap game.

Agree Laidlaw takes 3 steps sideways and then passes.
Reese changed the game at 9 when he came on, controling the forwards and quicker ball is the answer.

[RDW]

First of all congratulations Glasgow - they more than deserved to win both games and are worthy winners of the cup, again!

Once again though they failed to get the tbp when they didn't just have Edinburgh on the ropes but they were completely dead and buried. Can't help but think that 2 points extra would come in handy at the end of the year. It was criminal from Hogg but Glasgow definitely took their foot off the pedal when Edinburgh were completely dominated.


And on to Edinburgh - that was truly awful. The comback at the end shows that they at least have a shred of dignity, but it doesn't detract from the 70 minutes of complete dross they put on offer before then. No plan, no leaders, poor skills - Glasgow's first 2 tries didn't just come from our mistakes but from our good attacking platforms. Criminal.

I don't know where Edinburgh can go from here other than sack Bradly - no confidence, no heart or passion and nothing left to play for.

Only players with pass marks tonight were Tonks and Titterell, with Rees doing well when he came on.

There will hopefully be a very small contingent of Edinburgh players in the Scotland squad - and rightfully so.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

Good win for Glasgow! Thought Moray Low was outstanding.

Edinburgh's new 10 looks way below par.

[jimbopip]

What I want to know is why for the second week in a row did Edinbirgh not turn up for the entire first half? Why only start playing once there's a mountain to climb?

Here's another way of looking at it. Edinburgh over-achieved last year and in their hearts the players know this.They feel inhibited by this (afraid they wont live up to last year's performances) and so play within themselves, until the game is truly lost when they have nothing to fear and can begin expressing themselves. Both games against the Weege have followed exactly the same pattern: the MFL don't turn up until they are so far behind there is no danger of them winning and then they look really good until they get close to Glasgow and apply the brakes lest something awful happens i.e. they win!
At one point today I tried to make a composite team but with the exception of Tonks they were all weegies, then the MFL realised the game was up and started to make an effort and for a short spell they looked really good. I don't think a new coach is top priority but a sports psychologist might be, or a good kick up the arse.

[RDW]

Agreed jimbopip - Edinburgh are very weak mentally, especially against Glasgow

[Imperialbigdave]

First of all congrats Glasgow. Only one team in it whole game.

Second of all, this edinburgh team is so mentally not with it, its astounding. They never, never play 80 minutes. They have inflated opinions of themselves and their abilities, feel they arent answerable to anyone, and as seen by Greig and now Netani's comments to the press, are idiots who cant keep their mouths shut.

Im hearing allegations that they as a team keep deviating randomly from the gameplans, which would fit in line with Robinsons comments when he resigned, and in line with what were seeing on the pitch. Of course that isnt helped by the complete lack of continuity in team selection in key positions, but is by no means an excuse.

Its pure speculation, but from what I see, id say a few of our key players from last season are a bit too comfortable. To quote Top Gun, their egos are writing cheques their rugby ability cant cash.

[TJ1]

Anything to back that up? It looks to me more like coaching issues - players not "buying into" the gameplan and confused as to what to do along with a big helping of collapsed morale.

Nothing really for me to back that up other than what I see.

[GLove39]

Crowd of 11,225 which is something at least

[RDW]

Good crowd but no atmosphere with the dross on the pitch

[Imperialbigdave]

Anything to back that up? It looks to me more like coaching issues - players not "buying into" the gameplan and confused as to what to do along with a big helping of collapsed morale.

Nothing really for me to back that up other than what I see.

Its speculation, I dont deny it, but with robinson there was definately a difference with what he wanted them to do and what he got. He made a throwaway comment post resignation that the players dont stick to the gameplan, and if they do it at international level, theres a chance they do it at club level aswell. Wether its no confidence in the coaches or what, I dont know, its just a suggestion.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

4 in row guys

Forwards immense esp the front row. Back row pretty damn good also. How on earth they let the MFL back into that -again- I don't know? Edinburgh have some real problems but who cares we won -again. How did that Cross guy ever get a Scotland cap - one of Andy's wee pals was he ?

BTW Neil Paterson is a complete embarrassment as a referee.

[George Carlin]

As a fan of both teams, Edinburgh have been absolutely appalling and Bradley's position is unfortunately no longer tenable.

Very rarely in a game can you honestly say that if you combined XVs there wouldn't be a single player from one side in that combined team but I feel that nobody from Edinburgh was better than their counterpart. How can their forwards still be so soft?

Granted, Glasgow has the meanest defence in the league but I cannot believe that the final scoreline had a 4 point margin because the honest truth is that Glasgow were better by a street and butchered a cartload of chances - they should have put 40 points on their opposition and will rue these missing two points over the past fortnight come playoff time. At least Bradley had the stones to admit afterwards that if Edinburgh had taken this it would have been "burglary".

Am glad that Scott Johnson was watching because from a Scotland perspective, there are some interesting decisions to be made:

1. Laidlaw v Pyrgos - sad to say, wee Greig seems to be falling between two stools. He is not the long term answer at 10 but no longer seems to be the form Scots 9, particularly if Johnson wants a fast ball game. His ability to cover both positions makes him a supersub, unfortunately for him.

2. Hogg v Tonks - Hogg has really got the yips this season and needs to focus more on his game. There's no way he would have missed an open goal like that last season. Tonks is breathing down his neck and currently looks like a safer pair of hands. Literally.

3. Weir v Heathcote - agree with the comments above - Weir has done little wrong other than sustain an injury. I just don't buy that he isn't the better 10. Jackson is a better passer of a ball to a flat backline, but that's quite literally all. Heathcote could be very good but is completely unproven with the national team. What's actually wrong with Weir? Robinson didn't like him, but I suspect that SJ does.

4. Wilson v Beattie v Denton

Kelly has to take the 6 shirt, which leaves Denton on something of a sticky wicket. Again, has regressed since last season and whilst he is always looking to get involved, simply did not have the same impact as a carrier or defensively as Wilson did. If JB Jnr continues his form, there's going to have to be a tough choice made for the 6N.

5. Centres

Holy feic, where do you start with this?

Scott did well for the first try but could create nothing from Laidlaw's back foot ball for most of the game. Is Horne really better? Difficult to see it. What is increasingly obvious is that we don't need to rely on De Luca any more. It's possible that he won't make the 6N squad at all. And if that's to give Dunbar or Bennett a chance (it's much too soon for Ansbro to even be considered), then I wouldn't be unhappy with that.

[TJ1]

Anything to back that up? It looks to me more like coaching issues - players not "buying into" the gameplan and confused as to what to do along with a big helping of collapsed morale.

Nothing really for me to back that up other than what I see.

Its speculation, I dont deny it, but with robinson there was definately a difference with what he wanted them to do and what he got. He made a throwaway comment post resignation that the players dont stick to the gameplan, and if they do it at international level, theres a chance they do it at club level aswell. Wether its no confidence in the coaches or what, I dont know, its just a suggestion.

I suspect Robinson wanted the players to play a gameplan that did not suit them nor that they agreed with - hence the confusion and poor form. I blame the coaches for this not the players/ as you tho - its just speulation

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

GC,

Jackson had a very good first 40 yesterday and could have been MoM if he had stayed on -took a few dull ones as well. On form like that he should have kicked too as he would have kicked those conversions =6more points.
Another impressive performance from Rob 'Ginger Tackle Monster' Harley and what can you say about Strauss - a great signing. In a few years he will walk into the Scotland side. Harley can cover open and blind so must be in the 6Ns pool. Maitland is also a class act and will defo be in the pool unless Johnson has a Robinson-like brain fart.
Pyrgos looked very assured and outplayed Laidlaw although behind our tough pack it is rather easy for him
BTW What was wrong with Dougie Hall's try - referee was a joke throughout ?

[funnyExiledScot]

Agree about the hall try. It was right in front of me, and it was a certain try. Ludicrous decision.

Edinburgh were beyond awful for 65 minutes. Bradley must go now. The lineout was a shambles, we didn't even compete at restarts, and the decision to pick francis was poor. Poor selection, no motivation, no tactical nous and the wrong players are being signed. Bradley must go.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Aye fES,

and why was that woeful prop who replaced Jacobsen not carded (straight red) for spearing Swinson in. Right in front of idiot Paterson. Copy of Warburton's tackle for Wales v France at RWC11. That toss pot referee didn't even give a penalty - knock on, red scrum. Unbelievable.

[TJ1]

Agree about the hall try. It was right in front of me, and it was a certain try. Ludicrous decision.

An edinburgh defender was taken out off the ball to create the gap Hall went thru. The edinburgh guy was alongside the ruck not a part of it and thus could not be cleared out legally. That was the decision if I understand it correctly

[funnyExiledScot]

That was the call but it was wrong. The edinburgh player was part of the ruck in my view and legitimately cleared. If he claims he wasn't part of the ruck despite standing next to it, i'd like to know what he thinks he was doing.

Thought it was very harsh on glasgow.

[TJ1]

people stand alongside rucks all the time - he was defender in a defensive line.

How can you be part of the ruck if you are not touching it at all - a clear gap between you and the pile of bodies.

Marginal call perhaps but looked right from where I sat

[funnyExiledScot]

He was right over it, didn't think there was any clear gap.

[GLove39]

I wonder how many pints Hogg had to buy DTH to make up for that knock on?

[George Carlin]

No idea Glove but our Canadian deserves to be properly sh!tfaced at no cost to himself.

One of the worst things I've seen since that cockchomper at London Irish tornado-dived over the line, forgetting to take the ball with him.

[jimbopip]

GC, am in total agreement re. composite XV. As I said earlier before the MFL late rally only Tonks would have been a contender. So if there is nobody worth considering then do we have a 6N lineup of Weegies plus the Rev, big Ritchie,Jim the nasty, Kelly Brown and er that's about it really.(possibly McVisser whose try scoring record is simply awesome).
Actually Hogg maitland Visser = a good back 3
Dunbar Horne = workable pairing
Henry Meatball/Rhubarb = probably the best option
Can we live without the MFL contribution ? Probably.
On another thread people have been considering who SJ should pick; I think after Tonga the question should have been who do we drop? It would now appear that the message we are hearing is that some MFL egos are/were trying to hijack the game plan, be interesting to see just how clinical SJ can be. Ground Zero and start again say I (obviuosly with almost all of the weege present)

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Think Scott would have a reasonable shout at i/c but with the exception of Tim 'Can't tackle,won't tackle" Visser all Warriors plus Richie G, Hamilton, KB and His Holiness.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Sorry - omitted Johnny Beattie from those outside the Warriors - it is where his soul lies though !

[funnyExiledScot]

I didn't think horne was particularly good in either game so I would personally use scott ahead of him, and dunbar hasn't played well all season, so presumably on form the 13 jersey ought to be between lamont and grove, with the possible options of hogg and murchie, although both are better at 15 for me.

When rennie returns, hopefully he can sort us out!

[Glas a du]

BTW Neil Paterson is a complete embarrassment as a referee.

Yes. I'm glad you noticed...

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

I didn't think horne was particularly good in either game so I would personally use scott ahead of him, and dunbar hasn't played well all season, so presumably on form the 13 jersey ought to be between lamont and grove, with the possible options of hogg and murchie, although both are better at 15 for me.

When rennie returns, hopefully he can sort us out!

Agree about the hype surrounding the Glasgow centers.

[Manky-Flanker]

I didn't think horne was particularly good in either game so I would personally use scott ahead of him, and dunbar hasn't played well all season, so presumably on form the 13 jersey ought to be between lamont and grove, with the possible options of hogg and murchie, although both are better at 15 for me.

When rennie returns, hopefully he can sort us out!

Agree about the hype surrounding the Glasgow centers.

Is there really a lot of hype around those two? It seems to me that there is more focus on players like Nico, Cusack, Strauss, DTH, Grant, Hogg etc.

In any case, I can't shake the feeling that Horne is a 13, though it would seem that he and the Glasgow selectors have come to terms with him being a 12.

Oh and happy new year to you all btw

[MacKnocked-on]

Horne needs to sort out the fundamental flaw in his goal kicking that makes him waft a lot of his kicks right, perhaps some lessons from Chris Paterson will help. If he can improve his goal kicking then he would be a really good option.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Mac,

Horne probably does have a flaw in his kicking but he 'wafts' them left not right - as he diid with 3 conversions on Saturday.

Anyhoo - Happy Ne'erday everyone

[IanBru]

Hey guys, have yourselves an absolutely miraculous 2013!

[MacKnocked-on]

Mac,

Horne probably does have a flaw in his kicking but he 'wafts' them left not right - as he diid with 3 conversions on Saturday.

Anyhoo - Happy Ne'erday everyone

Left is what I meant, too much vin de table obviously. Anyway, Happy New Year to all and here's to Scotland surprising everyone this 6N!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Indeed, MacK, a very happy and healthy 2013 to one and all. Two wins for Glasgow, but it really should have been two 'good' wins of the 5 point variety - I also fear that those 2 league points that they missed out on will come back to haunt them by the end of the season - hope not, but ...

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