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France v Wales: Build-up and match thread

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France v Wales: Build-up and match thread Empty France v Wales: Build-up and match thread

Post by Ospreydragon Sun 03 Feb 2013, 5:20 pm

A very interesting opening weekend in the 6N. Good wins for Ireland and England, and a great one for Italy, who showed some nice touches and are devloping their play (unlike Wales).

Here's a typically hyperbolic journalist (or sub-editor's headline) in today's Express:

"Rob Howley Planning to Dump Failures"

http://www.sundayexpress.co.uk/posts/view/375256/Rob-Howley-planning-to-dump-failures

Nothing in the article to state who is going to be dumped, and no surprise there.

Will Howley have the cojones to drop some players? Jenkins, Shingler, and one of the centres? We'll see!

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Post by Duty281 Sun 03 Feb 2013, 5:22 pm

Hmmm... France massively fired up at home after a defeat to Italy against a team who's lost 8 on the bounce. Going to say France to win 26-9.

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Post by mogg Sun 03 Feb 2013, 5:43 pm

imo France didnt do anything to fear realy dont think Wales will panic to much about them. Ireland looked good against us for 35/40 mins but showed not a lot in the second half. As horrible it is to say for a Welsh man England was the only team that looked like the real deal in this first week! but we all know the form book counts for nothing in the 6n ! all the best to all teams for next week lets hope week2 can keep this pace up Smile

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Post by bedfordwelsh Sun 03 Feb 2013, 7:50 pm

He will have the balls to drop Shingler because he's not an established player like Jenkins I very much doubt (hope wrong) he will have guts to drop Roberts or Jenkins
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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 03 Feb 2013, 8:01 pm

Out of the two teams this week France- Wales, you have to say that France played the better game....If Wales play the same way against France( in the first half any way) then i cannot see France losing momentom like Ireland did.

How Wales address their losing streak i really dont know.

I would imagine they would have to make some changers to the team that plays next Saturday...will be interesting to see who keeps the starting position and who doesn't.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon 04 Feb 2013, 5:28 am

Forget France if we play against Italy and Scotland in the first half like we did on Saturday then its a whitewash let alone the wooden spoon.
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Post by maestegmafia Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:10 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Out of the two teams this week France- Wales, you have to say that France played the better game....If Wales play the same way against France( in the first half any way) then i cannot see France losing momentom like Ireland did.

How Wales address their losing streak i really dont know.

I would imagine they would have to make some changers to the team that plays next Saturday...will be interesting to see who keeps the starting position and who doesn't.

Or if we start as we just finished we could well be walking away with a win in Paris.

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Post by Biltong Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:14 am

There are two major questions and both will seem like old cliche's.

1. Which French team will rock up?
2. Will Wales play for 80 minutes?
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Post by George Carlin Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:20 am

A1. A very angry, desperate one now, I would think. Not good for Wales.

A2. Yes, they will but it's a terrible shame that they are so crippled by injuries to forwards because Italy showed that front row parity and skilled, consistent recycling from the tight 5 in loose play (coupled with surprisingly good offloading) is the way to beat the French.
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Post by Biltong Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:22 am

I have been punting Mike Phillips for some time now, but sadly I have now changed my opinion, his service is slower, his lumbering runs are predictable and he just isn't effective anymore.
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Post by maestegmafia Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:26 am

George Carlin wrote:A1. A very angry, desperate one now, I would think. Not good for Wales.

A2. Yes, they will but it's a terrible shame that they are so crippled by injuries to forwards because Italy showed that front row parity and skilled, consistent recycling from the tight 5 in loose play (coupled with surprisingly good offloading) is the way to beat the French.

I agree that Wales should put in a longer performance. We were very poor defensively and impatient in attack though second half our confidence built, patience in possession increased and we were very competitive.

The front row was not hit by injury. The second row wasn't bad either. Most line out disruption was good Irish defensive jumping. Wales will have to be a 100 times more clinical.

Also look at having Ken Owen, James Hook, Justin Tipuric and Lloyd Williams on from the start.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:29 am

Biltong wrote:I have been punting Mike Phillips for some time now, but sadly I have now changed my opinion, his service is slower, his lumbering runs are predictable and he just isn't effective anymore.
You are right. Then he plays at his best, (like against Ireland and France in the RWC) and you can't drop him.

Lloyd Williams added pace to the breakdown, didnt kick and that made Wales work.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:42 am

maestegmafia wrote:Wales should put in a longer performance. We were very poor defensively and impatient in attack though second half our confidence built, patience in possession increased and we were very competitive.

We raised our intensity in the second half, but we were still so blunt in attack. We were still largely trying to run through defenders in ones rather than drawing the defender to free the man outside. You know, playing rugby. The whole mindset is wrong. We're looking for contact and dying with the ball, rather than looking to offload in the tackle and keeping the ball alive.

Success blinds people to the truth. During last year's Six Nations we got more and more conservative as the tournament wore on but no one complained because we were winning. We didn't play much football against Australia in the summer, either. Our power game has worked in the past, but it's still predictable and explains why our victories were narrow ones - the opposition knew what was coming, but couldn't quite stop it. Well, now they can and we have absolutely nothing else to offer.

You watch, the personnel in Paris on Saturday may be slightly different but the gameplan won't have changed a bit. Bish bash bosh and chuff all else.


Last edited by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:44 am

Biltong wrote:There are two major questions and both will seem like old cliche's.

1. Which French team will rock up?
2. Will Wales play for 80 minutes?

1) they are playing at home
2) does any team ever do that?


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Post by maestegmafia Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:52 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Wales should put in a longer performance. We were very poor defensively and impatient in attack though second half our confidence built, patience in possession increased and we were very competitive.

We raised our intensity in the second half, but we were still so blunt in attack. We were still trying to run through defenders in ones rather than drawing the defender to free the man outside. You know, playing rugby. The whole mindset is wrong. We're looking for contact and dying with the ball, rather than looking to offload in the tackle and keeping the ball alive.

Success blinds people to the truth. During last year's Six Nations we got more and more conservative as the tournament wore on and we didn't play much football against Australia in the summer, either. Our power game has worked in the past, but it's still predictable and explains why our victories were narrow ones - the opposition knew what was coming, but couldn't quite stop it. Well, now they can and we have absolutely nothing else to offer.

You watch, the personnel in Paris on Saturday may be slightly different but the gameplan won't have changed a bit. Bish bash bosh and chuff all else.


I don't disagree with you. In attack in the first half it was our regular problem of poor kicking and turn overs that made us impotent. I guess if we had been keeping the ball live we would have negated that.

Italy played a great live game yesterday. Hardly a man took a tackle without offloading to another. It was like watching Steve Hansen or Mike Ruddock's Wales.

Quick ball confident phase play and patience with the ball in hand got us back into the game. We need to be able to play both. Not one or the other.

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Post by George Carlin Mon 04 Feb 2013, 8:58 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Biltong wrote:I have been punting Mike Phillips for some time now, but sadly I have now changed my opinion, his service is slower, his lumbering runs are predictable and he just isn't effective anymore.
You are right. Then he plays at his best, (like against Ireland and France in the RWC) and you can't drop him.

Lloyd Williams added pace to the breakdown, didnt kick and that made Wales work.
Philips looks great when Wales are going forward but if your pack is on the back foot, you just need to get the ball out of there. He absolutely cannot do that as quickly as other internationalists do and can struggle against a quick thinking opposite number with fast feet (I hate to say it again, but Genia showed this up quite badly). Shouting and pointing is not a substitute for giving your fly half some proper time to assess the field and make the correct percentage calls.

Ironically, Rees' quick ball has been one of Edinburgh's bright spots all season.
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Post by Jimpy Mon 04 Feb 2013, 9:02 am

Of all the teams that are going to have to visit Paris this year, can you imagine having to go there to face a French backlash from their loss to Italy....

France by 20 points.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 04 Feb 2013, 9:04 am

George Carlin wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Biltong wrote:I have been punting Mike Phillips for some time now, but sadly I have now changed my opinion, his service is slower, his lumbering runs are predictable and he just isn't effective anymore.
You are right. Then he plays at his best, (like against Ireland and France in the RWC) and you can't drop him.

Lloyd Williams added pace to the breakdown, didnt kick and that made Wales work.
Philips looks great when Wales are going forward but if your pack is on the back foot, you just need to get the ball out of there. He absolutely cannot do that as quickly as other internationalists do and can struggle against a quick thinking opposite number with fast feet (I hate to say it again, but Genia showed this up quite badly). Shouting and pointing is not a substitute for giving your fly half some proper time to assess the field and make the correct percentage calls.

Ironically, Rees' quick ball has been one of Edinburgh's bright spots all season.

Aye but beyond a fast service Rees has nothing. Lloyd Williams service was great on Saturday. He played really well.

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Post by George Carlin Mon 04 Feb 2013, 9:37 am

Aye - tells you a lot about Edinburgh's season.

Surely most people would agree that Williams has to start this week. Biggar needs as much time as possible with his pack under pressure and that's the best way to help him.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 04 Feb 2013, 9:44 am

I doubt we'll see many changes in personnel. If Howley was conservative in his selection for Ireland at home, he's sure as hell going to play it safe for France in Paris. The only change I'll predict is Hook for Biggar, which would be a mistake.


Last edited by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 04 Feb 2013, 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling.)

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Post by fa0019 Mon 04 Feb 2013, 9:55 am

France at home is a completely different side to one who travels... in both club and test rugby France/French teams struggle away.

France will front up at home.

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Post by Jimpy Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:01 am

fa0019 wrote:France at home is a completely different side to one who travels... in both club and test rugby France/French teams struggle away.

France will front up at home.

It may have been true in the past, but just one look at the HEC this year disproves that theory immediately.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:07 am

I wouldn't underestimate italy's impact, they were the better team. They deserved the win.

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Post by Guest Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:12 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I doubt we'll see many changes in personnel. If Howley was conservative in his selection for Ireland at home, he's sure as hell going to play it safe for France in Paris. The only change I'll predict is Hook for Biggar, which would be a mistake.

Which is daft really, because playing it safe (form a Howley point of view) means picking players who once were good but are not now, and ignoring players who are in better form. Playing it safe therefore actually becomes playing it risky, because we're less likely to do well. We've been 'playing it safe' with the out of form players since the Autumn and it's led to 8 losses!

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Post by fa0019 Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:17 am

Worrying for both Scotland this week and Wales the week after.

If Wales lose to France then they face Italy next in Rome. That would be an all-time low if they lost there.

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Post by Taylorman Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:27 am

France were terrible against Italy and just looked flat and lethargic. But Wales are in a true rut that has no obvious answers. At home, with a huge boot up the a^#se France will get better provided they actually have done some work since the AI's. They sure looked a match or two short.

Wales simply have to do something very different either as a team or as individuals- but at the beginning of the match. Not easy to conjure that up in a week. Just one of those times they have to dig dip. Best of luck to them...


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Post by maestegmafia Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:29 am

Taylorman wrote:France were terrible against Italy and just looked flat and lethargic. But Wales are in a true rut that has no obvious answers. At home, with a huge boot up the a^#se France will get better provided they actually have done some work since the AI's. They sure looked a match or two short.

Wales simply have to do something very different either as a team or as individuals- but at the beginning of the match. Not easy to conjure that up in a week. Just one of those times they have to dig dip. Best of luck to them...


It was far more that italy were brilliant than France were poor. Italy are a very good side this year.

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Post by Jimpy Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:31 am

I wondered how long it would be before the Welsh started talking up the Italian team. By the time the two meet, the Azzuri will be practically unbeatable by all but the very best...

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Post by George Carlin Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:34 am

If they're smart, they'll be talking them up right now.
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Post by Guest Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:35 am

fa0019 wrote:Worrying for both Scotland this week and Wales the week after.

If Wales lose to France then they face Italy next in Rome. That would be an all-time low if they lost there.


I wouldn't say that fa. We've lost to them before at home and away, arguably when they were much less of a decent team, so those times were the lows. An Italy team that pushed Oz pretty close in the autumn and has beaten France twice in two years, isn't that 'lowly' to lose to. Wouldn't be ideal, and would hurt, but they're not the whipping boys they once were.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:37 am

Does anyone know when the team for Saturday is announced?

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Post by yappysnap Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:41 am

Tale of the two Nine's for me.

For Wales it's Mike Phillips, will he be as pant Poopie slow of service and lazy at the breakdowns against France as he was against Ireland or will we see the game breaking, opposition 9 eating Phillips of the WC and GS Wales team?

For France it's Parra, he's been electric for Clermont, helping to win games on his own and strutting around like a little rooster at the same time. He kicks, he shouts, he passes and some times he rolls around on the floor from a semi-fatal injury before jumping to his feet and cracking on again. If he starts and can kick Mickilaks arse the for the whole 80 mins then we'll see a very different French team.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 04 Feb 2013, 11:21 am

yappysnap wrote:Tale of the two Nine's for me.

For Wales it's Mike Phillips, will he be as pant Poopie slow of service and lazy at the breakdowns against France as he was against Ireland or will we see the game breaking, opposition 9 eating Phillips of the WC and GS Wales team?

For France it's Parra, he's been electric for Clermont, helping to win games on his own and strutting around like a little rooster at the same time. He kicks, he shouts, he passes and some times he rolls around on the floor from a semi-fatal injury before jumping to his feet and cracking on again. If he starts and can kick Mickilaks arse the for the whole 80 mins then we'll see a very different French team.

Machenaud Played nine for France not Parra. Parra was a second half substitute and not a great influence on the game.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 04 Feb 2013, 4:57 pm

Breaking news Pape is out, get changing those fantasy team line ups

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 04 Feb 2013, 5:16 pm

Pape out eh...!

Interesting. France have a wealth of depth in the pack, this won't weaken them too much up front.

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Post by Ospreydragon Mon 04 Feb 2013, 5:47 pm

"this won't weaken them too much up front" -- It won't weaken them at all.

maestegmafia, did you see the link to the Guardian article re: Maesteg rugby that I put up on the state of Welsh rugby thread today?

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 04 Feb 2013, 6:04 pm

Ospreydragon wrote:"this won't weaken them too much up front" -- It won't weaken them at all.

maestegmafia, did you see the link to the Guardian article re: Maesteg rugby that I put up on the state of Welsh rugby thread today?

Sorry mate I didn't check it out. Ill have a look for it.

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Post by Ospreydragon Mon 04 Feb 2013, 6:12 pm

Maestegmafia, the post is here (see the last link):

https://www.606v2.com/t40264-calling-the-bluff-aka-the-state-of-welsh-rugby

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Post by maestegmafia Tue 05 Feb 2013, 8:39 am

France coach Philippe Saint-Andre has named Thierry Dusautoir as captain for Saturday's Six Nations clash against Wales in Paris.

The 31-year-old Dusautoir - capped 56 times - returns to the captaincy as the man who replaced him as skipper Pascal Pape has been ruled out because of a back injury.

Saint-Andre called up Toulon lock Jocelino Suta as Pape's replacement in the squad, who will be looking to bounce back from their opening 23-18 defeat in Rome by Italy on Sunday.
Wales too started with a defeat, 30-23 at home to Ireland, and will travel to Paris on an eight game losing streak - a far cry from their Six Nations Grand Slam of last season.

France squad: Vincent Debaty (Clermont), Yannick Forestier (Castres), Benjamin Kayser (Clermont), Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing-Metro), Luc Ducalcon (Racing-Metro), Nicolas Mas (Perpignan), Yoann Maestri (Toulouse), Jocelino Suta (Toulon), Romain Taofifenua (Perpignan), Damien Chouly (Clermont), Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse/capt), Yannick Nyanga (Toulouse), Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier), Louis Picamoles (Toulouse), Maxime Machenaud (Racing-Metro), Morgan Parra (Clermont), Frederic Michalak (Toulon), Francois Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), Mathieu Bastareaud (Toulon), Benjamin Fall (Racing-Metro), Wesley Fofana (Clermont), Florian Fritz (Toulouse), Yoann Huget (Toulouse), Maxime Mermoz (Toulon)

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Post by whocares Tue 05 Feb 2013, 8:40 am

Ospreydragon wrote:Maestegmafia, the post is here (see the last link):

https://www.606v2.com/t40264-calling-the-bluff-aka-the-state-of-welsh-rugby

that was a great article OspreyDragon (the one about bridgend and maesteg rugby clubs). very insightful (for me that didnt knwo that luch about Welsh rugby) and shows how important club and grassroot rugby is/was for the community and the price they had to pay for a couple of GS.

anyway back to the game, french 23 unchanged appart from Suta replacing papé Sad almost wished Michalak or Mermoz picked a small injury to see Trinh Duc given a chance, Fofana back to centre or Bastareaud start. however, am pretty sure the same XV will start with still no international standart full back.

Assume no change in the Welsh one? hope Byrne doesnt start as his boot could be a great weapon against this french backline.

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Post by maestegmafia Tue 05 Feb 2013, 8:42 am

When is the team selection announced?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 05 Feb 2013, 9:28 am

'(Shaun) Edwards admitted that the Welsh players would be under pressure against France in Paris on Saturday.

Wales have lost eight consecutive Test matches, a run stretching back to June 2012.

"Every player is two bad games away from being in jeopardy," added Edwards.

"That's how it should be. It's like that with the All Blacks it's like that with most international teams around the world." '


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21331324


Clearly that rule doesn't apply to certain players.

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Post by Glas a du Tue 05 Feb 2013, 10:29 am

I'm going to Paris Friday Yahoo

Last time I went, this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJbUkOOvhoE

Vive la Revolution!

Let's show the spirit of Arwel...
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Post by BlueNote Tue 05 Feb 2013, 10:35 am

That Shaun Edwards comment makes me worry they're going to stick as close as possible to the XV for the Ireland game.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 05 Feb 2013, 10:36 am

BlueNote wrote:That Shaun Edwards comment makes me worry they're going to stick as close as possible to the XV for the Ireland game.

Yep. Sad

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Post by nobbled Tue 05 Feb 2013, 10:40 am

Glas a du wrote:I'm going to Paris Friday Yahoo

Last time I went, this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJbUkOOvhoE

Vive la Revolution!

Let's show the spirit of Arwel...

Good on you Glas - have a fantastic time Ale
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 05 Feb 2013, 10:44 am

That was a cracking game of rugby as I recall it.

I love JJ's comment on the replay: "well done!" Very Happy

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Post by George Carlin Tue 05 Feb 2013, 10:59 am

Punching a scrum half?

That's like hitting a small, asthmatic schoolgirl in a wheelchair in real money.
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Post by Guest Tue 05 Feb 2013, 11:01 am

Not if you're Arwell Thomas, the 9 stone Welsh fly half! He was blown over by a gust during one game, if memory serves.

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Post by Glas a du Tue 05 Feb 2013, 11:03 am

George Carlin wrote:Punching a scrum half?

That's like hitting a small, asthmatic schoolgirl in a wheelchair in real money.

Yes, but Arwel was smaller than him.
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