Ireland Vs Scotland - Injurymageddan vs Resurgence

UPDATED - Ireland 29 Man Squad Announced:

Hooker- Rory Best, Sean Cronin,
Props- David Kilcoyne, Tom Court, Mike Ross, Declan Fitzpatrick,

Second Row- Donnacha Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Ian Henderson, Lewis Stevenson, Devin Toner
Backrow - Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry, James Coughlan,

Scrumhalf - Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan,
Flyhalf- Ronan O'Gara, Paddy Jackson,

Centre- Brian O'Driscoll, Keith Earls, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave,
Wings- Craig Gilroy, Fergus McFadden, Luke Fitzgerald,
FullBack- Rob Kearney, Robin Henshaw

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So with Darcy now out, where will Deccie be forced to go? I think we all realize he will go with ROG and use the Darcy injury as even more excuse to stay with a “wise” old head at outhalf. Below I put in what I believe Deccie will put down as the starting line-up and below that my selection. Just to clarify, either team is capable of beating Scotland as we all know that we can show up and randomly, erraticly beat nearly anyone, but I believe my team has the benefit of win or lose being a team that starts to prove out whether the young players we all have such hopes for can do a job for us.

Deccie (Total Starting Caps, 663, 363 Backs, 300 Forwards)
15 Kearney (43)
14 McFadden (16)
13 Earls (36)
12 O’Driscoll (122)
11 Gilroy (3)
10 ROG (127)
9 Murray (16)
8 Heaslip (54)
7 SOB (24)
6 POM (11)
5 Ryan (25)
4 DOC (92)
3 Ross (26)
2 Best (64)
1 Kilcoyne (4)

16 Cronin (24), 17 Court (29), 18 Fitzpatrick (4), 19 Henderson (2), 20 Henry (6), 21 Reddan (48), 22 Jackson (0), 23 Fitz (49)
Bench Caps: 162

Me (Total Starting Caps, 394, 207 Backs, 187 Forwards)
15 Kearney (43)
14 Earls (36)
13 O’Driscoll (122)
12 Marshall (0)
11 Gilroy (3)
10 Madigan (0)
9 Murray (16)
8 POM (11)
7 Henry (6)
6 SOB (24)
5 Ryan (25)
4 Henderson (2)
3 Ross (26)
2 Best (64)
1 Court (29)


16 Cronin (24), 17 Kilcoyne (4), 18 Fitzpatrick (4), 19 DOC (92), 20 Heaslip (54), 21 Reddan (48), 22 Jackson (0), 23 McFadden (16)
Bench Caps: 242

And in the Blue corner -
15 Hogg
14 Maitland
13 SLamont
12 Scott
11 Visser
10 Jackson
9 Laidlaw
8 Beattie
7 Brown
6 Harley
5 Hamilton
4 Gray
3 Welsh
2 Ford
1 Grant

16 Low, 17 MacArthur 18 Cross, 19 Kellock, 20 Wilson, 21 Weir,22 Dunbar,23 Tonks

Wouldnt McFadden go to 12?

Maybe Trimble coming in on the wing.

I would have thought it would be Earls in the centre and Trimble on the wing.

No doubt ROG will play 10, but I would much rather see Madigan as a neutral

I'd be shocked if ROG doesnt start.

Be interesting to see who is the replacement fly half.

Kidney's a naturally cautious man; the sudden injury/suspension crisis is scarcely going to have him screaming out of his shell, you wouldn't think. Conservatism and experience will now be the order of the day, hence ROG, DOC, and, I have a feeling, Trimble will all play.

For this one game, it may not be such an awful idea. Scotland have a lot of good young players in their back line, but they do show their greenness once in a while. If O'Gara retains even an ounce of his former accuracy with his kicking out of hand, we should see the interesting spectacle of Scotland's back three being repeatedly made to turn. Up front, DOC will be under orders to wind up his opposite number, I imagine. I have a feeling that we may see more than one yellow card at Murrayfield next week.

westisbest wrote:Wouldnt McFadden go to 12?

Maybe Trimble coming in on the wing.

Deccie has never trusted McFadden at 12, and Trimble is behind even Fitz in the pecking order, so pretty confident he will pick that horribly unbalanced team I specified above. If he played players in their best positions (earls as wing for example) then I would have a bit more confidence going into this match even if the players he picks arent who I prefer.

After the Glasgow game tonight I hope to see more of them in the starting lineup! Absolutely outstanding!

Dirt track side too Nelly boy

15 Kearney
14 Gilroy
13 Earls
12 O'Driscoll
11 Fitzgerald
10 ROG
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 SOB
6 POM
5 Ryan
4 DOC
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Court

I would expect he will start Court with a view to targetting the Scots scrum. That front row should be more than a match for Scotlands with Murray keeping the sabbath. DOC's inclusion strengthens our chances at scrum time also.

NeilyBroon wrote:After the Glasgow game tonight I hope to see more of them in the starting lineup! Absolutely outstanding!

Certainly John Welsh has to be in ahead of Cross, no doubt about it. Swinson and Dunbar deserve at the very least a bench spot as well. Perhaps Wilson ahead of Denton? Have to say that Bennett looks like he could live up to the hype also.

Should be a good game. I think Scotland have a good chance. They looked like they were starting to gell as a team. You have to be confident Scotland will score tries. Can Ireland outscore them? possible but how likely :-)

MacKnocked-on wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:After the Glasgow game tonight I hope to see more of them in the starting lineup! Absolutely outstanding!

Certainly John Welsh has to be in ahead of Cross, no doubt about it. Swinson and Dunbar deserve at the very least a bench spot as well. Perhaps Wilson ahead of Denton? Have to say that Bennett looks like he could live up to the hype also.

Aye Welsh looked the part tonight for sure. Swinson is looking hot at the moment, I would even say put him on rather than big Jim although he did justify his spot last week. I think Dunbar has guaranteed a bench spot or maybe even a start at 13? It'd be nice to have an actual centre in that position, not to disrespect Shlong he always puts a good effort in, but a few more tweaks and I really think we will be a very tough side to beat. And I definitely agree on Wilson, he's the second 8 for me at the moment.

15 Kearney (43)
14 Earls (36)
13 O’Driscoll (122)
12 Marshall (0)
11 Gilroy (3)
10 Madigan (0)
9 Murray (16)
8 POM (11)
7 Henry (6)
6 SOB (24)
5 Ryan (25)
4 Henderson (2)
3 Ross (26)
2 Best (64)
1 Court (29)

What sort of dangerous radical are you?

Re. the 12 jersey;

Luke Marshall came off injured so I don't think he'll play- I don't think he responded well to the challenge of needing a big game when he was on anyway. Sometimes you can try too hard to stand out you know? You don't try and win the game by your self.

Don't think he's done enough, McSharry also missed the Connacht game injured! Fitzgerald? Earls? McFadden?

From an Ulster/Ireland point of view Tom Court, Andrew Trimble and Iain Henderson all looked good. But I've already talked about Luke Marshall and concerns that Paddy Jackson is still not fully back in form and fitness- nor taking the kicks at goal- are valid.

Really hope Madigan has a good game tonight, but don't see that as being enough to change Kidneys mind.

I think it was mentioned last night on the BBC NI coverage but BOD to 12, Cave at 13? Wouldn't be any worse than BOD-Earls in attack and a lot more solid in defence!!

If we are missing McCarthy and Ryan, it's probably even more imperative that O'Mahony starts, need a lineout option, unless Henderson comes in at blindside!

Reckon the two 23 will be:

Ireland

1. Court 2. Best 3. Ross 4. Ryan 5. O'Callaghan 6. O'Mahony 7. O'Brien 8. Heaslip 9. Murray 10. Radge 11. Gilroy 12. BOD 13. Earls 14. Trimble 15. Kearney
16. Cronin 17. Kilcoyne 18. Fitzpatrick 19. Henderson 20. Henry 21. Reddan 22. Jackson 23. McFadden

Scotland
1. Grant 2. Ford 3. Low 4. Gray 5. Hamilton 6. Harley 7. Brown 8. Beattie 9. Laidlaw 10. Jackson 11. Visser 12. Scott 13. Lamont 14. Maitland 15. Hogg
16. McArthur 17. Welsh 18. Cross 19. Kellock 20. Denton 21. Pyrgos 22. Weir 23. Dunbar

Am I the only one who feels the pessimism that has hit Irish fans following a narrow loss in difficult conditions, and the sudden optimism for Scottish fans after an expected win over Italy is all a little over the top?

Think you're close on the Ireland team, but McFadden and Kilcoyne instead of Court and Trimble. Trimble has a chance of a recall, but right now McFadden and Fitzgerald are ahead of him still I think.

LondonTiger wrote:Am I the only one who feels the pessimism that has hit Irish fans following a narrow loss in difficult conditions, and the sudden optimism for Scottish fans after an expected win over Italy is all a little over the top?

Ireland were outclasssed in that encounter and are missing a good few players and Scotland are playing some of the best rugby they have played for a long time. when did you last see Scotland scoring multiple tries from the backs in a game as they have done consistently this season?

Dunbar surely has to be at least on the bench after last night's performance. I can see SJ keeping the same team (Euan Murray aside) but surely Dunbar warrants selection over Max Evans??

LondonTiger wrote:Am I the only one who feels the pessimism that has hit Irish fans following a narrow loss in difficult conditions, and the sudden optimism for Scottish fans after an expected win over Italy is all a little over the top?

It wasn't the fact Scotland beat Italy, its that they beat them well. We understand our team is still developing but if they can up their ferocity in the breakdown next week there's no reason we can't beat Ireland too. However if the boys let the Irish boss the breakdown it'll be a very long afternoon indeed. Point being, yes maybe Scottish optimism is over the top, but bare in mind we've had very little to cheer about for the past... well... 10 years lol

NeilyBroon wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:After the Glasgow game tonight I hope to see more of them in the starting lineup! Absolutely outstanding!

Certainly John Welsh has to be in ahead of Cross, no doubt about it. Swinson and Dunbar deserve at the very least a bench spot as well. Perhaps Wilson ahead of Denton? Have to say that Bennett looks like he could live up to the hype also.

Aye Welsh looked the part tonight for sure. Swinson is looking hot at the moment, I would even say put him on rather than big Jim although he did justify his spot last week. I think Dunbar has guaranteed a bench spot or maybe even a start at 13? It'd be nice to have an actual centre in that position, not to disrespect Shlong he always puts a good effort in, but a few more tweaks and I really think we will be a very tough side to beat. And I definitely agree on Wilson, he's the second 8 for me at the moment.

Really like the look of the Scottish team at the moment. You'll kill me for saying this, but I'd have liked to have seen Robinson coach your forwards under another Head Coach and with no responsibility for picking players. I did think he improved your work at the breakdown no end.

I really think the 6N teams are all pretty decent this year, and it's great to see a Scotland team a)have a massive pack with decent options b)have some pace in the back 3.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Dunbar surely has to be at least on the bench after last night's performance. I can see SJ keeping the same team (Euan Murray aside) but surely Dunbar warrants selection over Max Evans??

I know Evans is way off form but it's amazing, given how he was playing a year or two ago, that Scotland can confidently look at playing others instead of him and leaving him out of the squad. I still think he could be a very good back 3 player at international level. At the very least a great back-up

Hood83 wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:After the Glasgow game tonight I hope to see more of them in the starting lineup! Absolutely outstanding!

Certainly John Welsh has to be in ahead of Cross, no doubt about it. Swinson and Dunbar deserve at the very least a bench spot as well. Perhaps Wilson ahead of Denton? Have to say that Bennett looks like he could live up to the hype also.

Aye Welsh looked the part tonight for sure. Swinson is looking hot at the moment, I would even say put him on rather than big Jim although he did justify his spot last week. I think Dunbar has guaranteed a bench spot or maybe even a start at 13? It'd be nice to have an actual centre in that position, not to disrespect Shlong he always puts a good effort in, but a few more tweaks and I really think we will be a very tough side to beat. And I definitely agree on Wilson, he's the second 8 for me at the moment.

Really like the look of the Scottish team at the moment. You'll kill me for saying this, but I'd have liked to have seen Robinson coach your forwards under another Head Coach and with no responsibility for picking players. I did think he improved your work at the breakdown no end.

I really think the 6N teams are all pretty decent this year, and it's great to see a Scotland team a)have a massive pack with decent options b)have some pace in the back 3.

Yeah it was a shame about Robinson, he is a good coach, just not head coach material really. Although he's at least got himself a nice wee job at Bristol!

I have to agree that the 6Ns is a bit more of an interesting competition this year (partly because its the first time in ages I actually feel Scotland could do well!) although I am a bit disappointed with France. I haven't seen them that jaded in a while!

Ireland will be tough for sure, although I'm never too convinced about a lot of Kidney's decisions when under pressure, he becomes Eddie O'Sullivan mkII. Although if the weathers good it should be a cracker next Sunday!

NeilyBroon wrote:

Hood83 wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:After the Glasgow game tonight I hope to see more of them in the starting lineup! Absolutely outstanding!

Certainly John Welsh has to be in ahead of Cross, no doubt about it. Swinson and Dunbar deserve at the very least a bench spot as well. Perhaps Wilson ahead of Denton? Have to say that Bennett looks like he could live up to the hype also.

Aye Welsh looked the part tonight for sure. Swinson is looking hot at the moment, I would even say put him on rather than big Jim although he did justify his spot last week. I think Dunbar has guaranteed a bench spot or maybe even a start at 13? It'd be nice to have an actual centre in that position, not to disrespect Shlong he always puts a good effort in, but a few more tweaks and I really think we will be a very tough side to beat. And I definitely agree on Wilson, he's the second 8 for me at the moment.

Really like the look of the Scottish team at the moment. You'll kill me for saying this, but I'd have liked to have seen Robinson coach your forwards under another Head Coach and with no responsibility for picking players. I did think he improved your work at the breakdown no end.

I really think the 6N teams are all pretty decent this year, and it's great to see a Scotland team a)have a massive pack with decent options b)have some pace in the back 3.

Yeah it was a shame about Robinson, he is a good coach, just not head coach material really. Although he's at least got himself a nice wee job at Bristol!

I have to agree that the 6Ns is a bit more of an interesting competition this year (partly because its the first time in ages I actually feel Scotland could do well!) although I am a bit disappointed with France. I haven't seen them that jaded in a while!

Ireland will be tough for sure, although I'm never too convinced about a lot of Kidney's decisions when under pressure, he becomes Eddie O'Sullivan mkII. Although if the weathers good it should be a cracker next Sunday!

Wouldn't worry about France, i've never known them have 3 bad games on the bounce so they'll probably batter us next week! Just our luck, thanks a lot Wales.

I was surprised at Scotland against us, but that's a good team who I think will be tough to beat at home. I think you can win in Ireland.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Dunbar surely has to be at least on the bench after last night's performance. I can see SJ keeping the same team (Euan Murray aside) but surely Dunbar warrants selection over Max Evans??

Totally totally agree with you there, just finished watching the highlights and what a performance from him at 12! I hope Toonie takes note and keeps him there with Horne at 13 possibly?

Only the Scotland front throw him on the bench, he can replace lamont on 60 minutes with Scott moving to 13!

In addition to Dunbar John Welsh has to be put straight into the squad, best 3 we've got available for the Ireland game.

Wait a minute guys - we (Warriors) have a big game v Ulster on Friday night so leave our players alone - you have enough as it is

Of the two props, i was actually more impressed with gordon reid. I thought He had a great game for Glasgow, he was very effective at the breakdown and was very hard to stop when he got a bit of momentum. Would not be upset if he played vs Ireland.

I agree with tramptastic in that Scott should be at 13 with Dunbar at 12, although I think Dunbar should get a start with lamont on the bench, but either way round would be fine really.

Week to go!

bsando wrote:Of the two props, i was actually more impressed with gordon reid. I thought He had a great game for Glasgow, he was very effective at the breakdown and was very hard to stop when he got a bit of momentum. Would not be upset if he played vs Ireland.

I agree with tramptastic in that Scott should be at 13 with Dunbar at 12, although I think Dunbar should get a start with lamont on the bench, but either way round would be fine really.

Week to go!

Yes The Shrek is a bloody good prospect in the front row -he is a bit raw and gets drawn into 'jiggerypokery' too easily but is developing into a rampaging prop who CAN scrummage.

LondonTiger wrote:Am I the only one who feels the pessimism that has hit Irish fans following a narrow loss in difficult conditions, and the sudden optimism for Scottish fans after an expected win over Italy is all a little over the top?

I think that's fair comment, Tiger - it's just a function of the two week gap - all of the initial match reviews in week 2 get over-analysed and positions polarised because we don't have any actual rugby to talk about (unless you're a Glasgow fan ). I don't think that Ireland played badly against England at all - they were just crippled with a couple of injuries in pivotal positions and the sopping wet conditions made it very difficult to force things when Ireland were chasing the game.

I think also that fans of other nations need to give Scotland fans a break and let them enjoy a good collective performance the likes of which we have not seen in a while. Absolutely nobody whatsoever thinks that Scotland have suddently become world beaters. In fact, the first thing that Johnson said in his post-match interview was how the Italy result wouldn't be worth a bucket of cold ferret poo if it couldn't be backed up with similar performances against Wales and Ireland.

George Carlin wrote:

I think also that fans of other nations need to give Scotland fans a break and let them enjoy a good collective performance the likes of which we have not seen in a while. Absolutely nobody whatsoever thinks that Scotland have suddently become world beaters. In fact, the first thing that Johnson said in his post-match interview was how the Italy result wouldn't be worth a bucket of cold ferret poo if it couldn't be backed up with similar performances against Wales and Ireland.

Well said George

Scotland fans haven't had much to cheer about for years and as soon as we put in a very good performance and get a stunning win in the 6N we have every right to be happy and talk up our performance. We all know it means hee haw if they don't follow it up, but it is getting a bit annoying when other nations shoot us down for glowing in a victory!

Butler's column in today's Observer - he makes a bid to have Maitland, Hogg and Visser starting for the Lions

Maybe getting a little carried away..

Best performing back three of the weekend?

I'd certainly draft in Welsh and Dunbar from Glasgow, and possibly Barclay as well, all going onto the bench.

Tighthead is a three-way race now. Cross wasn't bad off the bench against Italy but did nothing against Cardiff. Low hasn't had the strongest season but I've always rated him, and Welsh has played strongly now for a few games at tighthead.

I think Cross will probably start, but I'm not confident.

Dunbar should most certainly leapfrog Evans. I can see Dunbar really bringing some impact off the bench with his direct running style and offloading game. He was storming against the Dragons.

I want Barclay involved as soon as possible, but perhaps Sunday comes too soon and the Ulster game the better preparation for him to come back against Wales. Very keen to have an openside in the squad.

Massive game for Scottish rugby. Time to reverse the poor results we've had against Ireland in recent years.

LondonTiger wrote:Am I the only one who feels the pessimism that has hit Irish fans following a narrow loss in difficult conditions, and the sudden optimism for Scottish fans after an expected win over Italy is all a little over the top?

Yup just you LT. Everything has gone to shoite over here, the economy, the peace process, the weather, ROG, the beef burgers..... now the rugby. Rory McIlroy, Jonny Sexton and Eirebilly did right to clear off.

26-12 to the Scots.

Sorry guys, I completely forgot about this thread. I started a new one.

https://www.606v2.com/t40769-ireland-squad-for-murrayfield-kidneys-toughest-moments

Let democracy proceed- use the new thread, or ask the moderators to merge it? Whatever 's all goo with me!

Injurymageddan? That word must be some some of crime...

Harry Leonard looks promising for Scotland's future

LondonTiger wrote:Am I the only one who feels the pessimism that has hit Irish fans following a narrow loss in difficult conditions, and the sudden optimism for Scottish fans after an expected win over Italy is all a little over the top?

I agree..but remember how many teams scored more than 2 tries in one game against the ABs last year?

Scotland have suffered recently till this season to score tries,they have a solid set piece.A good accurate Goal kicker plus a back 3 as a unit of genuine quality and pace.
Think the unthinkable Scotland on a roll and a surprise 6Ns win it would warm my old cockles up.
Much as I would like EITHER England or Scotland to win it this year with all the hype coming out of the England camp.
This year i`m backing the underdog it`s time they showed up again in the past they`ve flattered to deceive with wins over Argentina or Australia

Glas a du wrote:Injurymageddan? That word must be some some of crime...

I thought that this thread was about a sequel to the film 'Armageddon" where Stephen Ferris and Sean O'Brien take turns to stamp on Ben Affleck.

I'd pay good money to watch that.

nganboy wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Am I the only one who feels the pessimism that has hit Irish fans following a narrow loss in difficult conditions, and the sudden optimism for Scottish fans after an expected win over Italy is all a little over the top?

I agree..but remember how many teams scored more than 2 tries in one game against the ABs last year?

Probably just England and Scotland I guess.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Maybe getting a little carried away..

I got the impression he was musing out loud and picking backs for the hard, quick fields out in Oz.

Regardless of whether the pitch is hard or soft, you'll still need your wingers to tackle.

Visser is a fantastic player for Edinburgh and a great finisher, but I fear the Aussies would run straight through him.

Hogg and Maitland aren't daft suggestions at all though.

Good video here showing what Richie Gray does in his workouts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exV52ztynJY

That's quite a lot of weight on that bar!

He's a freak! To be that powerful and yet still so athletic is a rare gift.

Shame his family aren't Catholic, we could have used 5 or 6 of them!

To be that tall and squat so much is just ridiculous. I was proud of myself squatting 100kg yesterday!

Well I'm 6ft 3 and managed to carry all the shopping up the hill from Stockbridge yesterday, only having to put it down once for a breather.

Eat your heart out Richie!