Scotland vs Wales: Match Thread

[bsando]

First topic message reminder :

SCOTLAND vs WALES

Venue: Murrayfield
Date: 9/3/13
Kick-off: 14:30
TV coverage: BBC One
Weather Forecast: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/edinburgh#?tab=fiveDay&fcTime=1362787200
Ref: Craig Joubert

SCOTLAND
1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Harley
7. Brown
8. Beattie
9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Lamont
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Bench: 16. Hall 17. Low 18. Cross 19. Kelock 20. Wilson 21. Prygos 22. Jackson 23. Evans

WALES
1. James
2. Hibbard
3. A. Jones
4. A. W. Jones
5. Evans
6. R. Jones
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Owens 17. Andrew 18. Mitchell 19. Coombs 20. Tipuric 21. L. Williams 22. Hook 23. S. Williams

[RuggerBoy]

Casartelli,

Yes, a win next week would keep me happy, and it's not just "as long as we beat the English" either. Yesterday's game was the same, and I said so earlier in this thread, "a win is a win".

I suppose it depends on how you look at the game of rugby. If you see it as an heroic battle between warriors, where noble deeds resulting in failure are more worthy than attrition and guile that results in victory, or as a game of chess where tactics, even boring tactics it has to be said, achieves the only acceptable result - a win!

I am definitely in favour of the latter, I just simply hate to lose. On reflection of yesterday's game the only fact that really matters in my psyche is that we, that is Wales, won. Would I have felt as good within myself had we played Scotland off the park, with rugby of such flowing brilliance, that the rest of the world were in awe of our skill levels - but still lost. No way is the answer.

In truth, all I ask of the coaching staff of Wales is that they put a winning team out on the field next week. How they do it is up to them

[RDSguru]

Casartelli,
On reflection of yesterday's game the only fact that really matters in my psyche is that we, that is Wales, won. Would I have felt as good within myself had we played Scotland off the park, with rugby of such flowing brilliance, that the rest of the world were in awe of our skill levels - but still lost. No way is the answer.

"As long as we beat the english", "brave battling performance in defeat" etc etc, these media driven soundbites should be consigned to room 101

[samuraidragon]

Casartelli,

Yes, a win next week would keep me happy, and it's not just "as long as we beat the English" either. Yesterday's game was the same, and I said so earlier in this thread, "a win is a win".

I suppose it depends on how you look at the game of rugby. If you see it as an heroic battle between warriors, where noble deeds resulting in failure are more worthy than attrition and guile that results in victory, or as a game of chess where tactics, even boring tactics it has to be said, achieves the only acceptable result - a win!

I am definitely in favour of the latter, I just simply hate to lose. On reflection of yesterday's game the only fact that really matters in my psyche is that we, that is Wales, won. Would I have felt as good within myself had we played Scotland off the park, with rugby of such flowing brilliance, that the rest of the world were in awe of our skill levels - but still lost. No way is the answer.

In truth, all I ask of the coaching staff of Wales is that they put a winning team out on the field next week. How they do it is up to them

Winning is better than losing, for sure. The question is whether this team can win against decent quality opposition. It did in the 2012 6N, but failed during the summer tour, the AIs and the Ireland match.

So where are we now? Back on track, or letting a few ugly wins against poor opposition paper over the problems?

We're going to find out next Saturday.

[Barney McGrew did it]

Casartelli,
On reflection of yesterday's game the only fact that really matters in my psyche is that we, that is Wales, won. Would I have felt as good within myself had we played Scotland off the park, with rugby of such flowing brilliance, that the rest of the world were in awe of our skill levels - but still lost. No way is the answer.

"As long as we beat the english", "brave battling performance in defeat" etc etc, these media driven soundbites should be consigned to room 101

Fair enough. So long as you keep "plucky Wales denied", "Wales can beat anyone on their day", and "that was a moral victory" though. England will stick with "arrogant", "rebuilding" and of course "devalued GS".

[100%beefy]

No Slam is devalued whatever England WUMS have previously said becuase they couldn't get one they won't be saying it now! It is true though that Ireland and France who were shoo ins for the top 3 and champs have been abysmal and England have hardly had a test yet...they will certainbly get one next week

[gregortree]

No Slam is devalued whatever England WUMS have previously said becuase they couldn't get one they won't be saying it now! It is true though that Ireland and France who were shoo ins for the top 3 and champs have been abysmal and England have hardly had a test yet...they will certainbly get one next week

I actually agree with all of that Beefy, esp the unexpectedly poor form of France & Ireland. But we can only beat who we meet.
These 2 were in my mental 'top3' pre tournament. Shows what I know.
And Wales have hauled themselves back in from a poor autumn to a good 6N to make for a grand finale next Saturday

[Morgannwg]

Even if we did tackle our socks off, managed somehow to stop England rumbling over the gainline and scraped a win, is that still enough to keep people happy? 'As long as we beat the English' and all that small-minded nonsense.

This style of play is never going to be enough against the best teams, or even average teams playing well (like Argentina and Samoa). We're still very underpowered in contact and when a team exploits this, like Ireland did, we get smashed.

Frustrating thing is, we've got the biggest, strongest running backline we've ever had - but utilising it isn't in the gameplan. Unless things change we will look back on this as a missed opportunity - the Wales team that was never allowed to play to its potential. We could have been consistently in the IRB Top 3 if we'd played some rugby occasionally.

FFS Cas; are you an arrogant Englander trapped inside a Welsh body?

How about looking at it from the more logical perspective. England are the best team in the NH, are unbeaten, can turn over sides like the All Blacks, are clearly the benchmark for the 6 Nations teams; making them the team to beat no? We probably won't win the championship but beating England next weekend will do this team a world of good going forward. I doubt the game plan will change between now and the weekend and the bish, bash, bosh approach has rarely worked for us against England.

The last time we were utilising the backline was 2011-2012. The only difference there was an on-form, full of confidence Rhys Priestland. Our backs were very dangerous and scoring all the tries from anywhere. Biggar is Mr Conservative and his running game is non-existent. And nobody bother showing me the 'metre's made' stats, that just proves to me you haven't watched the last 3 games. In the near future we should have good options at fly-half if Priest, Biggar and Patchell are all playing well enough. I think we need to look for some replacements at 9 and 12. Evans, Rees, R.Williams at scrum-half I'm thinking, but not so sure who we have at 12. Shift Cory Allen inwards?

[RDSguru]

Casartelli,
On reflection of yesterday's game the only fact that really matters in my psyche is that we, that is Wales, won. Would I have felt as good within myself had we played Scotland off the park, with rugby of such flowing brilliance, that the rest of the world were in awe of our skill levels - but still lost. No way is the answer.

"As long as we beat the english", "brave battling performance in defeat" etc etc, these media driven soundbites should be consigned to room 101

Fair enough. So long as you keep "plucky Wales denied", "Wales can beat anyone on their day", and "that was a moral victory" though. England will stick with "arrogant", "rebuilding" and of course "devalued GS".

Can't speak for others, but you won't hear me saying any of those! Well apart from the "devalued GS" that is, and only when tongue in cheek!

[Guest]

Sam Warburton, Man Of the MATCH? that as to be the biggest joke of the day.

Instead of offering a nothing post (three times too), offer something constructive for a change and state who your MOTM was. It might give a slight hint that you can contribute to a discussion then. Warburton was probably the most standout player in the key part of the game.

I've already pointed out to this arrogant englishman that he was wrong in his prediction for the third time in a row. It seems if you show up his posts with facts and intelligence he doesn't have an answer.

First of all to both of you, my tripple post was an accident.

I actualy thought that the one person who was the most stand out player for Wales was Mike Phillips. Yes i dont often defend Phillips or say any thing good about him, but i thought that he had a really good game for Wales yesterday. ok.

Well done Madge. Very constructive and good to see you offer an opinion. I was pretty pleased with how Phillips went yeah, but I stick with my Warburton opinion for the reasons stated

[Morgannwg]

That was the one game where I've been unimpressed with Phillips tbh. We need somebody fresh at 9, that isn't Knoyle or Williams.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Hope joubert is watching the England Italy game. What the itallians are doing is an early engage... Just sayin'!

[funnyExiledScot]

I doubt Joubert will care. He's destroyed two rugby matches in consecutive rounds so I'm pretty sure he thinks his destructive interpretation of the laws is the correct one, albeit that it renders the game a horrific spectacle.

Stephen Jones' line in the Sunday Times is that it isn't Joubert's fault, rather the rules need to change. Maybe, but his last two performances have been rather on the extreme side of pedantic. I don't think he altered the outcome of either games, just to be clear, but the games would have been totally different had Owens, Barnes, Poite or Walsh been reffing, and clearly that can't be right.

[Taffineastbourne]

I doubt Joubert will care. He's destroyed two rugby matches in consecutive rounds so I'm pretty sure he thinks his destructive interpretation of the laws is the correct one, albeit that it renders the game a horrific spectacle.

Stephen Jones' line in the Sunday Times is that it isn't Joubert's fault, rather the rules need to change. Maybe, but his last two performances have been rather on the extreme side of pedantic. I don't think he altered the outcome of either games, just to be clear, but the games would have been totally different had Owens, Barnes, Poite or Walsh been reffing, and clearly that can't be right.

Totally agree.If I had shelled out good money and had my match butchered by Joubert's over zealous interpretation of the Laws I would be murderous.It was bad enough from my armchair

[Guest]

That awkward moment when Scotland won two games then thought they would hammer the far Superior Welsh, #delusional/average/Tonga

[Imperialbigdave]

The only people who said that we would hammer the welsh, were the welsh who made up that wed said we would hammer the welsh.

Find proof of any scottish poster claiming we would hammer the welsh. I dare you, I double dare you.

Some welsh posters seem to have taken "Were doing better than normal this year, we might be in with a chance in this game" as arrogance. Its quite ironic tbh.

[gregortree]

BigDave,
no need to take the WUMbait mate.
View drags his bait all over these threads.

[Imperialbigdave]

BigDave,
no need to take the WUMbait mate.
View drags his bait all over these threads.

oh I know hes a WUM, and im just nibbling rather than biting. Either he'll keep himself occupied for a wee while trying to back up his claims, or he'll brush them off in which case I wont bite any further.

[Guest]

Shh!! it's over,no need to fret over the Welsh now.
Just focus on your cup final next year away to Italy.

[Biltong]

That awkward moment when Scotland won two games then thought they would hammer the far Superior Welsh, #delusional/average/Tonga

They also beat the far superior Australian team the last two times they met them, as well as the Springboks in recent times.

Superior teams also lose.

[Guest]

That awkward moment when Scotland won two games then thought they would hammer the far Superior Welsh, #delusional/average/Tonga

They also beat the far superior Australian team the last two times they met them, as well as the Springboks in recent times.

Superior teams also lose.

[funnyExiledScot]

Ha! Nice one Biltong!

[RuggerRadge2611]

That awkward moment when Scotland won two games then thought they would hammer the far Superior Welsh, #delusional/average/Tonga

They also beat the far superior Australian team the last two times they met them, as well as the Springboks in recent times.

Superior teams also lose.

[Glas a du]

I think Scotland will rue their game plan. The reliance on the second rows stealing Welsh line out ball from their kicks to touch didn't work at all.

[funnyExiledScot]

I think Scotland will rue their game plan. The reliance on the second rows stealing Welsh line out ball from their kicks to touch didn't work at all.

Agree. I thought (for once) the Welsh lineout was excellent, all credit to Evans, Jones and Hibbard. It was clearly a ploy to kick to touch and have Hamilton and Gray compete at the lineout, but you didn't give us a sausage there.

I don't think there was much wrong with the tactic at the outset, our lineout was very good against Ireland and it's now a known Welsh strength, but we didn't really have a plan B, or any ball with which to do anything really, until the last 15 minutes where the Welsh defence shut us out.

Ultimately the game came down to three key moments for me (not including the plethora of crazy Joubert decisions):

1. Hibbard's try, and our inability to keep him out.

2. In contrast the last 10 minutes where we were attacking the Welsh line in similar fashion, and Wales kept us out.

3. Hamilton's moment of sheer madness.

Joubert had nothing to do with those key moments. They were entirely down to the players on the pitch.

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