Scotland changes for South Africa

by sensisball Sun 09 Jun 2013, 8:48 am

After a lacklustre display when we were outmuscled and outplayed by a tough Samoa team we now prepare to face the boks!
What changes can we make to try to get any kind of credible performance next week?
For me the glaring error in the starting team was the selection of Gilchrist and Kellock. Neither can last 80 minutes so you end up playing with effectively one lock for the end of the match. Remember Gilchrist being smashed around 78 minutes as he drove for the line?
One of the reasons that Kellock, Ryder and Swinson are such an effective trio for the weege is that Ryder and Swinson can both easily last the 80.
I would start Swinson and Kellock and have Ryder on the bench, oh sorry he isnt good enough to get in this tour squad! But it would be nice to have a lock that can actually carry effectively wouldnt it?
I cant face going over all the other parts of the team that didnt work, but im sure you guys will have some thoughts.
Seriously though, we could do with Swinson and his ability to turn over ball in contact as we will need to try and slow down as much of the Boka ball as we can.

by **RDW** Sun 09 Jun 2013, 9:31 am

The most worrying thing for me was physicality - we were lucky to even come 2nd best in those stakes! WE really need to step it up a notch and I think changes in the pack have to be made:

1 Welsh (if fit - Low if not)
2 Lawrie (Very strong debut - shame on McArthuer)
3 Murray (has always done well against SA - remember him taming the beast at Murrayfield!)
4 Swinson (lose a little bit in bulk but this guy is a tough son of a gun and hits rucks hard)
5 Hamilton (He's the slowest man in world rugby but the one thing he does do is physicality)
6 Strokosh (nest game in a Scotland shirt - more of the same)
7 Brown (if fit)
8 Denton(Beattie hasn't impressed me for a number of games now - Denton will ad a lot more physicality)

Backs as per yesterday - Heathcoat deserves another game.

by poddy89 Sun 09 Jun 2013, 10:54 am

who are our other options for 15?

i hadnt seen tonks play before and was looking forward to seeing him get some game time but he seriously dissapointed and just looked miles away,

i still hold massive question marks over vissers inclusion especially in these big physical games,

so might be tempted to start taylor instead of visser and maybe a change at 15? and tonks can get another run from bench,

heathcote looked like he might just do well with us but needs to be on the back of a forward going pack which i dont know much about so wont comment

im a back so thats what i know, centers were ok - start them again but really need some organised defence and attack

how hard did they make the try ?

by **George Carlin** Sun 09 Jun 2013, 11:05 am

I haven't checked the squad list but presumably Murchie would be the other option at 15. He's been very good for Glasgow this season but my heart does sink a little seeing him in a Scotland shirt as he's light years away from what Maitland and everyone's favourite Lions fly half Stuart Hogg offer.

by **RDW** Sun 09 Jun 2013, 11:06 am

Pretty harsh on tonks I think. I've seen him all season and he's a real classy player - a rock at the back and a huge left boot. He also hits the line well.

agreed he made a few mistakes but lets face it he wasn't the only one, and was no where near our worst player!

by poddy89 Sun 09 Jun 2013, 11:12 am

so what do we think needs to change up in the pack?

i won't be to upset if i saw the same backs out again to be honest, not convinced laidlaw is the best 9 for letting the backs cut loose and think he kicks to much but still probably the best option at 9?

maybe tonks should get a second chance as these games are just getting a bit of game time for these young guys so yeah i might be tempted to give him another run out,

but think i would put visser to the bench, he needs to work on a few basics,

hope there is some tackling and passing practice happening in scotland camp today

by GLove39 Sun 09 Jun 2013, 4:07 pm

I'd like to see Hamilton come into the pack, we're going to need all the power and grunt we've got to try and withstand the mighty bok pack. And just like last year at Murrayfield their maul looked pretty devastating against Italy on Saturday.

There'll have to be further reshuffling since I read on the BBC that McArthur, Brown & the Rev will miss the game and probably the rest of the tour due to injury. Big loses there.
With the absence of Brown I assume that Kellock will be made Captain?

In the backs, I hope Johnson can tell Laidlaw to trust his 10 more, and that he provides quicker service and spends less time finger pointing and lecturing at rucks.

by **RDW** Sun 09 Jun 2013, 4:14 pm

Surely Bob Harley will be called up? Should have been there in the first place

by funnyExiledScot Sun 09 Jun 2013, 5:39 pm

Depends on injuries, but i'd certainly bring in swinson, and probably hamilton as well.

by **George Carlin** Sun 09 Jun 2013, 6:11 pm

Mike Blair's column on the BBC is always an educated read and this one is worth repeating here:

Mike Blair column: Predictability and errors undermine rusty Scots

For the majority of the Scottish players, the 27-17 defeat by Samoa was the first game they had played in more than a month. It was the first time Scotland had played together in about three months and, unfortunately, it certainly looked like it.

The first 20 minutes in particular looked like a pre-season hit out. Three errors with the first three possessions - kick-off directly into touch, a tapped back lineout take and a dropped ball in midfield from a set-piece play - contributed to some uncomfortable viewing.

There is so much natural ability in this Samoan squad that they didn't need a second invitation and made the most of their opportunities with two tries in the first 12 minutes.

This natural ability is the reason why Samoa are able to find their game easier after a break in playing than the more structured Scots.

The Scottish game relies on team synergy and understanding of a game plan to find their flow, but Samoa, with game breakers like wingers Alapati Leiua and Alesana Tuilangi, seem to read each other so well. It is like they are playing together in the back garden, without a care in the word.

There were a few things that caught my eye in the game from a Scottish perspective. Some positive and some to work on .

Scotland need to find a bit of tempo in their game. I understand the need for organisation when exiting from their own third of the pitch and also that, against a team like Samoa, a 'Barbarians' style game is not ideal. However, when Scotland have the ball, there needs to be more urgency.

A quick tap penalty here or there, or quick throw-ins. Because everything is so structured, it means always attacking a structured defence. The easiest defence to play against is an unstructured defence. More turnovers will also produce better attacking opportunities and they were in short supply.

I liked the way they tried to use Johnnie Beattie in a first and second receiver role from set plays, distributing a bit rather than just head down the whole time. It means the defence must be more aware of players around him rather than just concentrating on a one-on-one tackle. Beattie has a great skill set and this will develop Scotland's attack.

Against a team like Samoa, one of the key facets of play is defence from kick chase and this was one of the most disappointing parts of the Scottish game.

Scotland always looked short on numbers and this was a result of kicking under pressure, which in turn was down to the lack of accuracy and intensity in the breakdown, leading to more players being caught up around the ruck or on the ground.

Yes, you've heard the breakdown complaints before and, again, it just wasn't brutal or efficient enough.

I thought Matt Scott looked explosive on the ball and dangerous when carrying. He needs to continue to assert himself in internationals now that he is becoming more experienced and help the decision makers around him.

There were too may errors. Whenever there was some decent field position or a half break, the pressure valve was released as a handling mistake was made, either through poor technique or a bad decision to make the pass.

Injuries will be a cause for concern, with Tom Heathcote, Kelly Brown, Pat MacAthur and Euan Murray leaving the field. With Ryan Grant also being called up to the Lions, along with the other three who were already there, it is clear that resources are going to be stretched.

I said in my previous column that the bigger picture for this tour was the blooding of young players with a view to 2015 and, having lost this game against Samoa, this young side need to quickly put it behind them, take the positives, analyse the negatives and look forward to a huge challenge against the South Africans next week.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sun 09 Jun 2013, 6:14 pm

Pass marks to Stroker, Laidlaw, Kellock, Lawrie, Dunbar and Schlong. The rest were bloody awful. Jacko to start at 10, Taylor at 11. Welsh at 1. otherwise ,and it might still happen, an embarrassment ! And yes RDW, Harley should have been on the plane in the first place.

by **RDW** Sun 09 Jun 2013, 6:18 pm

Must be hard for Blair writing all these things, because they are exactly the same things Scotland teams did badly when he was playing!

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 09 Jun 2013, 6:35 pm

Deeply concerned about all these injuries we're getting. I'm sure it'll be a thumping from SA then some rusty Autumn tests. Japan worry me, they look close to getting a big NH scalp.

by 123456789 Sun 09 Jun 2013, 6:56 pm

I think I'd go for:

1. Welsh
2. Lawrie
3. Low
4. Swinson
5. Hamilton
6. Strockosh
7. Denton
8. Beattie
9. Laidlaw
10. Heathcote
11. Lamont (captain)
12. Scott
13. Dunbar
14. Visser
15. Tonks

by jimbopip Sun 09 Jun 2013, 7:02 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Pass marks to Stroker, Laidlaw, Kellock, Lawrie, Dunbar and Schlong. The rest were bloody awful. Jacko to start at 10, Taylor at 11. Welsh at 1. otherwise ,and it might still happen, an embarrassment ! And yes RDW, Harley should have been on the plane in the first place.

Like Alice Through the Lanliq Glass I'm having a rather topsy-turvy day. I was at Chessington theme park with MrsPip and young Pipetto today when we lunched at their all you can eat pastapizza buffet. MrsPip loves a challenge!
So far so normal.
As I headed for the nosh I spied a Scotland jersey filled by a prop of Chunk like dimensions. He turned left and went to the salad bar.
Our paths crossed on my next trip to the nosh (MrsPip insists on value for money) and I made a passing comment on yesterday's performance. [i][b]Scottish prop began talking in a posh English accent, rather like Boris J quoting Das Kapital. chin

Just as I was getting used to this state of affairs Chunkalike says " So Hogg is playing at 10 for the Lions."
Mind you this is just a continuance of yesterday's viewing.
The front row will get hammered. No they did very well.
Strokes should not be in the side. He was probably the best on view, certainly in terms of guts and hard yards.
Tonks will make a good fullback. Where do I begin? Poor kick led to second try, nothing in attack, very little in defence.
Scott-Dunbar will be big hitters defensively. Doh

Scott-Dunbar will be very creative in attack. Doh

Laidlaw is a class scrum-half. picard

First try straight from a witless box kick.
Gilchrist can make the step up. I think Kellock will be seeing an osteopath today: he must have a bad back from carrying him all day.
Heathcoat and Taylor didn't disgrace themselves. Pyrgos looke like he knew where the backs live, Laidlaw couldn't find the with a TomTom.
Let's hope SJ shows us his tactical acumen by putting together a well devised game plan to take on the Boks next week and then it will be back to normal and no more salad eating Englishmen pretending to be Chunks.

by patersonismyhero Sun 09 Jun 2013, 7:18 pm

Given how dedicated he always is, Lamont as captain would be a great idea. I can see about 4000 quick taps coming, screw the penalty kick or kick to the corner. And shouting at anyone who gets barreled in a tackle. I'm surprised when Brown went off he or Strokosch weren't given the reins. It would be fun.

What winger captains have there been in the past? I can only think of Paterson for Scotland, anyone else?

by funnyExiledScot Sun 09 Jun 2013, 7:25 pm

Everyone seems to be dropping Dickinson, but I thought his performance was pretty decent. Won us a few penalties in the scrum, remarkably, and got his hands on the ball a fair bit in the loose.

The worst scotland player was probably visser. For a big lad he really is a wet lettuce!

by Imperialbigdave Sun 09 Jun 2013, 7:45 pm

Ieuan Evans captained Wales didnt he?

Harleys obviously going to get the call. I would rather have seen hims spend the summer working on his carrying, but given we hope for that every summer and it never happens, might aswell make the most of what he does do.

In addition though, and not a direct replacement for anyone, I would like to see Watson get called up, if even only for the experience. Fusaro cannot be justified after only a low level sevens tournament. It has been evident this year that we are absolutely screwed without a breakdown specialist. Its exactly what Mike Blair is saying, we arent getting the opportunities to attack from turnover ball because we arent winning turnovers. I cant be bothered fishing it out, but that IRB report that showed that most tries are scored off turnover ball is all the proof the management should need to alter our tactics. Its plain to see that on our own ball, the halfbacks are playing far too slow and structured, but even the most boring teams know how to attack off turnover ball. If we can start winning these turnovers and capitalising on them, the structured play of Laidlaw would actually be a good thing instead of hampering our ability to score. The issue is though as mentioned that we dont have a fit openside, but also our breakdown tactics. We dont contest nearly enough. Look at Robshaw, he is a blindside, no question. But between him and Wood contesting every breakdown, England are making up for the long wait for Kvesic. Ive no doubt that Brown and Strokosch could do similar if they were told to contest more.

Hooker wise its going to be Dougie Hall, but hopefully as cover only.
Put Low back to tighthead, call up Shiells or Reid. Doc to start, welsh to loosehead. Forget this stupid plan of swapping Low and Welsh round. I could understand one of them converting to provide cover, but a rotation is utterly unnecessary. If it aint broke dont fix it.

If Heathcote recovers from concussion, play him, and bench Jackson. If not, then itll have to be jackson. If Jackson benches, I cant decide wether to stick with Horne for such a big game, or save him for what will likely be Italy, and give him a chance to regain confidence then. Whichever though, make it centre if at all possible.

by 123skelm Sun 09 Jun 2013, 8:12 pm

It was one of the worst performances for nearly a year There was hardly a leader on that park, maybe there were 3, Captain Kellock and Laidlaw.

None of which seemed to know the game plan and galvanize the team when it was required, defensively we were extremely poor and embarrassing to say the least.

Forwards were really not in it and therefore our backs had no quality ball and not for the first time.

We missed the likes of meatball who was starting to find his voice and bully players at 10, Heathcote played well considering the service from Laidlaw, Weir knows this service as Jacko and what to expect we are lacking in a real quality 9?

I hope and prey that they will get there spirit up from the 1st second next week or if not I don't think I want to watch this one.

by 123456789 Sun 09 Jun 2013, 8:18 pm

I think the sooner Cusiter gets fit (if ever) and Kennedy gets more time the better, laidlaw is just too slow and his kicking is inaccurate.

by tigertattie Mon 10 Jun 2013, 12:39 pm

123456789 wrote:I think the sooner Cusiter gets fit (if ever)

Dont hold your breath! That laddie gets injured when he opens an envelope.

Have we not manged to clone armstrong or redpath yet? We really need a nippy wee terrier of a 9 who can get to rucks quickly and throw a quick ball for the team to work off!

by funnyExiledScot Mon 10 Jun 2013, 1:28 pm

I think longer term Kennedy is going to be a great little scrum half. Quick service and good pace off the mark. Too raw for Scotland at the moment, but hopefully a season as first reserve at Edinburgh will get him ready.

I concur with the comments directed at Laidlaw. His service was unbearably laboured at times, allowing the Samoans to re-form with ease. A related issue for me was the fitness and speed of the Scots forwards. I honestly expected them to at least be fitter and faster than the Samoan forwards, albeit lighter, but that didn't really tell as our woeful handling skills didn't allow for any continuity, and all options for a quick tap were ignored in order to re-set matters. We played as if we were scared of broken play and long phases, when in fact we should have been targeting that style of game. As it was we played right into the Samoan hands. A slow game generally but with quick intense bursts. That killed us ultimately.

The only hope for the South Africa game is that Scotland aren't usually terrible two games in a row, and some players will have a big point to prove. Players like Gilchrist and Dunbar came into the game with plenty hype, and they'll not want to go home not having given a proper account of their respective abilities.

by **George Carlin** Mon 10 Jun 2013, 1:41 pm

We'll need to wait for young Sam Clyne to put on a stone and get some tackling practice.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 10 Jun 2013, 1:46 pm

Well I'd certainly like to see Hidalgo-Clyne get some gametime for Edinburgh at 9 next season, rather than using Chris Leck. Leck is a servicable player, military medium and safe, but we need to be developing options at 9 for Scotland.

Scotland needed a Matawalu on Saturday, someone to break things up and get the tempo soaring. Players like Scott and Dunbar would have looked a whole lot more threatening had they been able to attack the ball rather than reaching into the sky to pluck out Laidlaw's latest slow distribution.

I'd don't want to get all Janecory on this point, because Laidlaw did some good stuff too (his chip through was a sublime effort), but his basics just aren't there. Rather like the role of a tighthead in scrummaging, if your scrum half can't get to the rucks quickly and distribute quickly and accurately, the rest of it all is just superfluous window dressing.

by **RDW** Mon 10 Jun 2013, 2:15 pm

Another concern is the availability and fitness of players being called up. Even assuming they have told certain players (Welsh, Harley etc) to keep fit there’s no way they could get up to speed by Saturday having not played in weeks and been training on their own. Also that back up list will probably be fairly small, and we might be faced with having to call up players who have not spent the last few weeks staying fit, and indeed have been on holiday and only just started back on pre-season!

McArthuer cover - Hall
Murray cover - ?
Brown cover – Harley

I’m not sure how many more people will be on the reserve list.

by **George Carlin** Mon 10 Jun 2013, 2:28 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Another concern is the availability and fitness of players being called up. Even assuming they have told certain players (Welsh, Harley etc) to keep fit there’s no way they could get up to speed by Saturday having not played in weeks and been training on their own. Also that back up list will probably be fairly small, and we might be faced with having to call up players who have not spent the last few weeks staying fit, and indeed have been on holiday and only just started back on pre-season!

McArthuer cover - Hall
Murray cover - Radge
Brown cover – Harley

I’m not sure how many more people will be on the reserve list.

Fewf. Filled in that crucial blank there. Sent Scott Johnson a text confirming.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 10 Jun 2013, 2:50 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Another concern is the availability and fitness of players being called up. Even assuming they have told certain players (Welsh, Harley etc) to keep fit there’s no way they could get up to speed by Saturday having not played in weeks and been training on their own. Also that back up list will probably be fairly small, and we might be faced with having to call up players who have not spent the last few weeks staying fit, and indeed have been on holiday and only just started back on pre-season!

McArthuer cover - Hall
Murray cover - Radge
Brown cover – Harley

I’m not sure how many more people will be on the reserve list.
Fewf. Filled in that crucial blank there. Sent Scott Johnson a text confirming.

In all seriousness we should avoid hitting the panic button just yet, we looked pretty green as mike blair said. f we omprove against SA I would be pretty happy. Bear in mind we are missing a lot of key players. No Brown and Grant are masssive boots to fill.

Tonks is coming in for some harsh and unfair criticism though.

by Captain_Sensible Mon 10 Jun 2013, 4:45 pm

Geoff Cross is out of the tour with a knee injury.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 10 Jun 2013, 4:47 pm

Agreed on Tonks. I certainly don't ascribe blame to him for the tries. His chip into touch was a mistake, thought he should have used that huge left peg of his, and his touch finders weren't as strong as he's capable of, but all in all not a bad initial performance. He should certainly keep his place against South Africa.

by GLove39 Mon 10 Jun 2013, 4:54 pm

Captain_Sensible wrote:Geoff Cross is out of the tour with a knee injury.

Eeek! Front row is becoming rather depleted.

by **RDW** Mon 10 Jun 2013, 4:54 pm

Captain_Sensible wrote:Geoff Cross is out of the tour with a knee injury.

Oh FFS - are we allowed to hit the panic button now??

Down to our 3rd and 4th choice tightheads.

by Captain_Sensible Mon 10 Jun 2013, 4:57 pm

So, do we now call up Gordon Reid and let Welsh and Low duke it out for the TH shirt?

by **RDW** Mon 10 Jun 2013, 5:02 pm

Captain_Sensible wrote:So, do we now call up Gordon Reid and let Welsh and Low duke it out for the TH shirt?

You're forgetting Dickinson can cover tighthead too... Run

by funnyExiledScot Mon 10 Jun 2013, 5:44 pm

RDW - don't joke!

If Euan Murray isn't fit, Murray Low should start at tighthead with Dickinson at loosehead. Welsh should be on the bench (covering both sides as first choice reserve) and they should call up Gordon Reid as emergency cover to fulfil the other bench spot.

A real test of our front row depth this, but the scrum went really well against Samoa. A technically accomplished performance I thought, particularly from Dickinson.

by sensisball Mon 10 Jun 2013, 11:07 pm

Dickinson did surprisingly well until the scrum where Samoa set up their last try, when we were well and truly in reverse gear. However cant see him managing two decent scrummaging shifts in a row! The thought of Gilchrist's head to head with Eben Etzebeth sends shivers down my spine. They are both around the same hieght and weight but all similarities in their physiques ends with these stats. Etzebeth looks like a greek adonis whereas Gilchrist looks like he has the muscle tone of an out of shape 60 year old!
I cannot for the life of me see how Johnson thinks Gilchrist is ready for the rigours of international rugby. Maybe he will have picked up a knock and this will give SJ the excuse to drop him for Swinson.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 11 Jun 2013, 10:32 am

It's a shame SJ needs an excuse. The best two locks on this tour are Jim Hamilton and Tim Swinson. They should start together against South Africa.

I genuinely don't think Gilchrist is ready for international rugby yet. I'm all for fast tracking young players who have proven themselves at club level, and Gilchrist had finished a strong season a year ago, but this season for Edinburgh he has not excelled. When we've needed our forwards to stand up and be counted, all too often he's faded into the background. Good forwards can take time to mature, to learn how to better influence games. The experience won't have done Gilchrist any harm at all, and he has big potential, but he needs to work really hard at his game and his conditioning over the next two years. Hamilton, Gray and Swinson are ahead for me in the pecking order.

by **RDW** Tue 11 Jun 2013, 1:54 pm

And if ever we need a reminder of our limited resources in this country, Heriots hooker and new Glasgow signing Fraser Brown has been called up to Scotland....!

by funnyExiledScot Tue 11 Jun 2013, 1:56 pm

Fraser Brown or Bismaark du Plessis. Shall we do a poll?

by 123456789 Tue 11 Jun 2013, 2:09 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:And if ever we need a reminder of our limited resources in this country, Heriots hooker and new Glasgow signing Fraser Brown has been called up to Scotland....!

To be honest it's unusual to have so many of your players in one position unavailable nevertheless this is a clear sign that two pro teams aren't enough, it's not a question of whether or not we have enough depth at the moment but whether we can develop enough depth for the future.
It's clear to me that the SRU need to set up four academies in the four traditional to districts each of which cater for pro teams, if they invest the sort of money they invest in Atiga and use it to make sure the academies are equipped with the best equipment and coaches to ensure we make the most of a limited player base. If they bring players in between 13 and 15 for training sessions two or three times a week before going full time at 16 then we will have a, rather small, group of very good players. Obviously there'll be some that aren't good enough but they can be trained to become referees, coaches and scouts as well as provide cover and play in the club game thus raising the standard. It would also allow the conditioning to start from an early age welhich would mean that our players would no longer get bullied at u20 level.

by **George Carlin** Tue 11 Jun 2013, 2:15 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Fraser Brown or Bismaark du Plessis. Shall we do a poll?

Apart from the matter of 2 stones in weight and 46 international caps, I think you'll find that there's very little to choose between them.

by **George Carlin** Tue 11 Jun 2013, 2:16 pm

123456789 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:And if ever we need a reminder of our limited resources in this country, Heriots hooker and new Glasgow signing Fraser Brown has been called up to Scotland....!

To be honest it's unusual to have so many of your players in one position unavailable nevertheless this is a clear sign that two pro teams aren't enough, it's not a question of whether or not we have enough depth at the moment but whether we can develop enough depth for the future.
It's clear to me that the SRU need to set up four academies in the four traditional to districts each of which cater for pro teams, if they invest the sort of money they invest in Atiga and use it to make sure the academies are equipped with the best equipment and coaches to ensure we make the most of a limited player base. If they bring players in between 13 and 15 for training sessions two or three times a week before going full time at 16 then we will have a, rather small, group of very good players. Obviously there'll be some that aren't good enough but they can be trained to become referees, coaches and scouts as well as provide cover and play in the club game thus raising the standard. It would also allow the conditioning to start from an early age welhich would mean that our players would no longer get bullied at u20 level.

Great idea, Numbers. How would we get the money? Oh, I know. We could scrap the meaningless international jamboree of pointlessness that is the international 7s team.

by **RDW** Tue 11 Jun 2013, 2:18 pm

Guys - started a thread on whether Hogg should get a run at 10 for Scotland

https://www.606v2.com/t45150-should-hogg-get-a-run-at-10-for-scotland#2117616

by 123456789 Tue 11 Jun 2013, 2:22 pm

George Carlin wrote:
123456789 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:And if ever we need a reminder of our limited resources in this country, Heriots hooker and new Glasgow signing Fraser Brown has been called up to Scotland....!

To be honest it's unusual to have so many of your players in one position unavailable nevertheless this is a clear sign that two pro teams aren't enough, it's not a question of whether or not we have enough depth at the moment but whether we can develop enough depth for the future.
It's clear to me that the SRU need to set up four academies in the four traditional to districts each of which cater for pro teams, if they invest the sort of money they invest in Atiga and use it to make sure the academies are equipped with the best equipment and coaches to ensure we make the most of a limited player base. If they bring players in between 13 and 15 for training sessions two or three times a week before going full time at 16 then we will have a, rather small, group of very good players. Obviously there'll be some that aren't good enough but they can be trained to become referees, coaches and scouts as well as provide cover and play in the club game thus raising the standard. It would also allow the conditioning to start from an early age which would mean that our players would no longer get bullied at u20 level.
Great idea, Numbers. How would we get the money? Oh, I know. We could scrap the meaningless international jamboree of pointlessness that is the international 7s team.

They could also sack a few of the useless Edinburgh journeymen and replace them with cheap, young Scottish players with potential, it's not as if results could take a dip.

by EST Tue 11 Jun 2013, 4:10 pm

Wow-talk about being fast tracked. I think Brown will turn out to be a fantastic signing for Glasgow this season, he after all was the supposed best player in an U20 team containing a certain R. Gray.

What he needs, though, is a proper pre-season to get him set up for the rigours of pro rugby, not to be sent over to S. Africa to be bashed about for a few weeks by some rather large Springboks.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Tue 11 Jun 2013, 6:38 pm

Kelly Brown out for the remainder of the tour so presume Bob Harley is on his way ?

by Majestic83 Tue 11 Jun 2013, 6:43 pm

EST wrote:Wow-talk about being fast tracked. I think Brown will turn out to be a fantastic signing for Glasgow this season, he after all was the supposed best player in an U20 team containing a certain R. Gray.

What he needs, though, is a proper pre-season to get him set up for the rigours of pro rugby, not to be sent over to S. Africa to be bashed about for a few weeks by some rather large Springboks.

I agree Brown is going to be a great signing for Glasgow. Was really unlucky when at Edinburgh with the neck injury but he is back playing great rugby at hooker and also has the skill set of a 7 which is always useful. Maybe a bit early for him to be joining up as a Scotland player but this time next year I think he'll certainly be in with a chance of being in the match day 23 on merit.
For the cover at Hooker i'm surprised they never called up Neil Cochrane the former Scotland u21 captain who has signed for Wasps. Played well all year in the championship. Useful player and again a back row converted to hooker so has a good skill set and is a good ball carrier, something Scotland lack. At 29 still has a good few years left as a front rower.

by Majestic83 Tue 11 Jun 2013, 6:52 pm

In Regards to the South Africa the main changes I would make would be bringing in Jim Hamilton, Duncan Taylor or Tommy Seymour. Ali Dickinson did very well against Census Johnston, as a loosehead Dickinson is a good scrummager and has a very good technique hence winning a few penalties against Samoa. Would like to see Swinson at least on the bench, not the biggest 2nd row but seems just as powerful and offers a lot of aggression and again offers a ball carrying option. Something that Kellock doesn't really do and Gilchrist seemed off against Samoa. Visser needs to be dropped, looked well off the pace, defence was non existent and in attack offered nothing. Good player but needs to have a bit of a look at himself as could be going down the Denton way!
The xv I would put out would be

1 Dickinson
2 Lawrie
3 Murray
4 Hamilton
5 Swinson
6 Wilson
7 Strokosh
8 Beattie
9 Laidlaw(Has to up his game)
10 Heathcote
11 Taylor or Seymour
12 Scott
13 Dunbar
14 Lamont
15 Tonks

16 Lawson
17 Welsh
18 Low
19 Kellock
20 Denton
21 Pyrgos
22 Jackson
23 Taylor or Seymour

I agree with some of the other people on Sean Lamont being captain, not a more passionate Scotsman in that team than him. Think he would do a very good job.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 11 Jun 2013, 7:16 pm

I'd have no qualms about seeing Visser dropped. His performance against Samoa was barely worthy of a score of 1/10.

Wilson made little impact when coming on, but given his Glasgow form he probably deserves another crack. I thought Beattie was pretty decent from the back of the scrum (although his general performance was underpar) so I agree to keep him at 8 and let Wilson start at 6. Should give us better ball carrying with Denton on the bench.

If Swinson isn't in the 23 it'll be a really poor decision. We frankly need a lock who does stuff.

by Scot Abroad Tue 11 Jun 2013, 7:34 pm

Visser needs to be dropped to let him know he's not untouchable. Might give him the kick up the bum that he needs. Worse than a wet napkin in defense against the Samoans. Would like to see Denton back on the bench because he'll have something to prove.

1 Dickinson
2 Lawrie
3 Murray
4 Swinson
5 Hamilton
6 Strokosch
7 Wilson
8 Beattie

9 Laidlaw
10 Heathcote
11 Taylor
12 Scott
13 Dunbar
14 Lamont
15 Tonks

16 Lawson
17 Welsh
18 Low
19 Kellock
20 Denton
21 Pyrgos
22 Jackson
23 Seymour

by Imperialbigdave Tue 11 Jun 2013, 8:18 pm

Ill echo what Majestics already said. Brown was earmarked for greater things than even Gray, but he needs to get at least half a season for Glasgow in. Hes never had a professional pre-season!

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