Lions V NSW Waratahs

by hugehandoff Tue 11 Jun 2013 - 15:35

First topic message reminder :

This is obviously a very important game in the overall context of the tour. Gats should use it primarily as a tough run out for his test team 1 week before the test series begins. But will he still want to give some players a chance to put up their hands? Are there certain positions still up for grabs and if so will he try and use this game as a winner takes all shoot out. It is not ideal to still be asking players to play the Brumbies game and then appear in the 1st test, although not impossible.

For me it should be:

Adam Jones - nailed on
Hibbard - almost nailed on
Grant - experiment
POC - nailed on
AWJ - trial V Parling
Lydiate - needs to prove himself
Faletau - needs to prove himself
Warbs - needs to prove himself
Phillips - nailed on
Sexton - nailed on
North - nailed on
Roberts - nailed on
BOD - nailed on
Maitland - experiment
1/2P - nailed on

Bench:
Cole.....purely for some hard match practice as I see Jones as nailed on
T.Youngs....could challenge for a starting spot if he excels as a replacement - worth a look
Vuni.......originally viewed as an impact sub so interesting to see how he goes compared to the highly rated (by the Scots) Grant who is deserving of a start
Parling.....worth another look to see if he is worth a starting or bench spot
Croft....another who deserves a run out to see if he is worth a bench spot
Heaslip....given an opportunity could take the starters spot
Youngs....assuming he will be the test sub so let him see what impact he can make
Farrell....ditto as for Youngs

Is a 6/2 bench split a bit risky?

Who would you like to see run out on Sat and do you just want the test side to play or do you still see this as a chance to experiment and give players a fair crack?

Update with actual team.
Lions team: Leigh Halfpenny; Sean Maitland, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Simon Zebo; Jonathan Sexton, Mike Phillips; Mako Vunipola, Tom Youngs, Adam Jones, Alun Wyn Jones, Paul O'Connell , Tom Croft, Sam Warburton (capt), Jamie Heaslip
Replacements: Richard Hibbard, Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling, Dan Lydiate, Ben Youngs, Owen Farrell, Rob Kearney

by Standulstermen Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:26

RDW_Scotland wrote:Rubyguby - other than having the props, 2nd row and centres the wrong way round that is probably spot on.

Wings too

by **RDW** Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:27

Yeah wings too but I wasn't wanting to be overly picky...! Very Happy

by GunsGerms Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:29

fa0019 wrote:Its the combinations rather I agree offload.

Croft, Warburton and Heasliip look like a test backrow. If Warburton is back on form then O'Brien will be likely to sit on the bench with Tipuric unlucky. If Warburton is unconvincing then I see Tipuric starting and O'Brien dropping out the 23.

The 3/4s also looks a likely combo. Maitland is a better all round player than Hogg, a better finisher and winger for certain. He is used to SH rugby also and will not be phased with playing someone as savvy as Folau for instance.

Form aside as we all know the most likely scenario is 6 Warb, 7 Tip, 8 Heaslip, Bench O'B

My back three would be 6 O'B, 7 Tip, 8 Heaslip. That backrow could do some damage.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:32

Mickado wrote:I rate Croft, but he hasn't played well enough to get himself a test spot yet.

Best backrow on tour so far, Tipuric - Heaslip - O'Brien

Croft has only featured in one match so far. this game will be his chance to make a case.

by **RDW** Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:33

Guns - would he really go with that backrow having not played them all tour?

by RubyGuby Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:34

Standulstermen wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Rubyguby - other than having the props, 2nd row and centres the wrong way round that is probably spot on.

Wings too

You know what i mean - get over it - I'm a blxxdy (or was) full back so feck knows what goes on up there - And I like my wings to interchange - As you say, it's bang on at the moment though

by Standulstermen Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:35

RDW_Scotland wrote:Guns - would he really go with that backrow having not played them all tour?

He played them On tuesday did he not. Never worry I see you meant the first unit. Nothing would surprise me with Gatland truth be told

Ruby

Only teasing

by RubyGuby Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:39

"Ruby

Only teasing"

Ok I'll get up off my chair now and stand up for the Ulstermen

thumbsup

by **RDW** Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:40

Stand - Warbs and Tupiric have not been on the pitch together at the same time this tour.

by **rodders** Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:40

RubyGuby wrote:At the moment I think these are the XV that Gatland has in mind but still some time to rethink his starting XV

1 - A Jones
2 - Hibbard (Youngs challenging)
3 - Vunipolo (Corbisiero)
4 - POC
5 - Grey (AWJ challenging)
6 - SOB (Lydiate)
7 - Warburton (Tipuric)
8 - Heaslip (Falatau)
9 - Phillips (Youngs challenging)
10 - Sexton
11 - Maitland
12 - BOD
13 - Roberts
14 - Giganto North
15 - 1/2p

There are places still to be competing for and in all honesty we are in the dark about some of the knocks. However, talking to Gats last night, that is the XV that he currently has pencilled in - Let's see what develops.

Yup spot on there Rubs .... what about Croft though? Do you think he is pencilled in at 6 or the bench?

I'd say its close for some of the bench spots too. Will Gats go for Davies, Tuilagi or Hogg for the 23 jersey?

by GunsGerms Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:41

RDW_Scotland wrote:Guns - would he really go with that backrow having not played them all tour?

Yeah probably because he isnt going to drop Warburton and Tipuric just seems to be playing his way into the team. If Tipuric doesnt make the team I dont think he will make the bench which would be harsh.

by fa0019 Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:43

GunsGerms wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Its the combinations rather I agree offload.

Croft, Warburton and Heasliip look like a test backrow. If Warburton is back on form then O'Brien will be likely to sit on the bench with Tipuric unlucky. If Warburton is unconvincing then I see Tipuric starting and O'Brien dropping out the 23.

The 3/4s also looks a likely combo. Maitland is a better all round player than Hogg, a better finisher and winger for certain. He is used to SH rugby also and will not be phased with playing someone as savvy as Folau for instance.

Form aside as we all know the most likely scenario is 6 Warb, 7 Tip, 8 Heaslip, Bench O'B

My back three would be 6 O'B, 7 Tip, 8 Heaslip. That backrow could do some damage.

I'd rather have Tipuric myself but would Swap O'Brien for Croft. I think O'Brien is the best at what he does (no one carries like O'Brien) but Croft is pretty unique in terms of his lineout dominance.... he's far more difficult to read then someone like Gray. First off he's about 20kg lighter and often only needs 1 support lifter.... makes the lions more difficult to read. His offensive lineout skills are also very high for the same reason.... he and his sole lifter can react very quickly.

We will hold firm in the scrum but not so sure in the lineouts... if we can dominate there we will win the match and the series IMO.... why I would go with Croft.

In the end I wouldn't be displeased with either but think Croft gives the lions such an edge (if utilised properly).

by Standulstermen Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:47

I think the main areas of contention are

The flankers
Right wing
Hooker
2nd row partner to POC

I don't see the hooker as being a big issue as there isn't much between Hibbard and youngs
The flanks are anyone's guess.
POC/AWJ was found out a bit as a combo 4 years ago. Have things changed? I don't know.

The only changes I would make to the team ruby posted would be youngs at 2 and Tipuric at 7

by GunsGerms Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:49

fa0019 wrote:

I'd rather have Tipuric myself but would Swap O'Brien for Croft. I think O'Brien is the best at what he does (no one carries like O'Brien) but Croft is pretty unique in terms of his lineout dominance.... he's far more difficult to read then someone like Gray. First off he's about 20kg lighter and often only needs 1 support lifter.... makes the lions more difficult to read. His offensive lineout skills are also very high for the same reason.... he and his sole lifter can react very quickly.

We will hold firm in the scrum but not so sure in the lineouts... if we can dominate there we will win the match and the series IMO.... why I would go with Croft.

In the end I wouldn't be displeased with either but think Croft gives the lions such an edge (if utilised properly).

As you say Croft is light and therefore easy to throw up high in the lineout. However, Grey is 6'10 and gets plenty of height and Heaslip and obviously POC are also quality in the lineout so if they are playing is Croft required?

I do like Croft, I do appreciate what he offers and he does have a tremendous attitude to the game making him even more likable but I feel he might miss just miss out this time.

by fa0019 Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:49

Standulstermen wrote:I think the main areas of contention are

The flankers
Right wing
Hooker
2nd row partner to POC

I don't see the hooker as being a big issue as there isn't much between Hibbard and youngs
The flanks are anyone's guess.
POC/AWJ was found out a bit as a combo 4 years ago. Have things changed? I don't know.

The only changes I would make to the team ruby posted would be youngs at 2 and Tipuric at 7

Hibbard was having a dire throwing game on Tuesday... threw himself about a bit though.... currently is the tour's crash test dummy likened to Schalk.... great whilst it lasts.

by GunsGerms Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:51

Standulstermen wrote:I think the main areas of contention are

The flankers
Right wing
Hooker
2nd row partner to POC

I don't see the hooker as being a big issue as there isn't much between Hibbard and youngs
The flanks are anyone's guess.
POC/AWJ was found out a bit as a combo 4 years ago. Have things changed? I don't know.

The only changes I would make to the team ruby posted would be youngs at 2 and Tipuric at 7

I guarentee is Best had the opportunity to play with the likely second row starters Grey and POC his throwing wouldnt be an issue at all. He is used to POC and Grey is immense in the lineout. Sadly though I dont think he will be given the chance.

by lostinwales Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:54

Last Lions tour in at least one match Croft's lifter was AWJ....

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:56

I think POC and Gray are the best lock combination. POC is a great breakdown operator and does a lot of the dirty work whilst Gray is a powerful carrier and excellent at stealing lineout ball.

Couple that with the fact that they are both really mobile and hit the rucks well, the breakdown is an area we can really attack and the lineout would be an area we could dominate. POC and Gray I reckon are test starters, hence withdrawing Gray at half time against the Combined team.

by RubyGuby Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:58

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I think POC and Gray are the best lock combination. POC is a great breakdown operator and does a lot of the dirty work whilst Gray is a powerful carrier and excellent at stealing lineout ball.

Couple that with the fact that they are both really mobile and hit the rucks well, the breakdown is an area we can really attack and the lineout would be an area we could dominate. POC and Gray I reckon are test starters, hence withdrawing Gray at half time against the Combined team.

by fa0019 Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 9:58

If Gray is lifting Croft then say goodbye AUS.... 6'10 with his extended reach on a chap who is already 6'6.

Simple dominance. 2 men maximum height.

If you throw up AW Jones or Gray you would need Adam Jones & Vunipola to throw them up... 3 men, perhaps half a foot down on the above.

by Mickado Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:00

LondonTiger wrote:
Mickado wrote:I rate Croft, but he hasn't played well enough to get himself a test spot yet.

Best backrow on tour so far, Tipuric - Heaslip - O'Brien

Croft has only featured in one match so far. this game will be his chance to make a case.

Absolutely, but he hasn't done enough *so far* to make the test team.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:03

Ah, but if he was already ear-marked has he done enough to lose the spot?

Whatever happens as soon as the team for the 1st test is announced there will be a lot of disappointed fans

by Standulstermen Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:03

You might be right guns but Rory hasn't taken his chances. I personally think only youngs has. I haven't been impressed with Hibbard. He looks ponderous and a tad lazy to me (I'm not saying he is). I think if you accommodate Jones as I think we should, we need youngs mobility

On the 6 debate. Croft in the lineout will help but I see no reason why Tipuric can't be an excellent lineout option. Heaslip is a decent option and Ireland countered france in the lineout during the 6N but throwing to SOB at 2 and mauling from there.

Of more concern to me is the breakdown. We keep hearing how good hooper and gill are and let's not forget oz beat the boks in the RWC off the back of no set piece but complete dominance of the breakdown. Playing SOB or Warburton at 6 gives Gatland the option of having two internationals 7's in his backrow.

I'm not saying this is definitely the way we should go. I'm just playing devils advocate.

by fa0019 Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:03

who has Mickado??? Warburton is not on form, Lydiate is not on form. O'Brien has been good in patches but hasn't been amazing.

Its why I think Roberts may get the nod over Tuilagi... unless you out and out prove you are superior the tried and tested often gets the jersey. Croft, Roberts, Heaslip all good performers in 09 and that will be on the coaches mind (given 3 of the 5 were on the tour).

by **George Carlin** Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:05

If the Wallabies play a back row of Hooper-Mowen-Gill then we cannot really be without Tipuric (for his speed and pilfering) or a big ball carrying back rower (that's Heaslip). The blindside shirt is the one that's up for grabs.

If we're playing 'fatties ball up the jumper' then O'Brien picks himself really. Let's be fair to Croft, he's had practically no game time at all - am willing to change my mind if he has a stormer against the Tahs.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:08

For me the Flanks are an issue. Currently Warburton is some way adrift of knocking Tipuric off the 7 slot and some way adrift of knocking SOB off the 6 slot.

Of all the backrowers the 8s haven't exactly been electric (apart from Heaslip against the farce), so will we see :

6. Warbs/SOB
7. Tipuric
8. SOB/Warbs

Thoughts?

by **George Carlin** Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:09

Do people really not think Heaslip has been playing all that well? I think he's been excellent. Maybe I should stay off the liqueur chocolates for a while

by fa0019 Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:10

thought both 8s have been playing well actually. Heaslip should get the nod though. Better all round player at this time IMO.

by Standulstermen Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:11

I doubt O'Brien has the nous to play 8 without gametime in the position. My ghast would be well and truly flabbered if anyone other than faletau and Heaslip started 8.

by RubyGuby Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:11

This "on form" stuff is confusing me - Gatland comes from the perspective that form is temporary and class is permanent - Lots of people say Warburton was not "on form" before the England game in Cardiff yet he was absolutely amazing in that game as he is likely to be come the Test matches. I would pick on what i know as opposed to on or off form - How can we say "on form" when we have had 1 decent team put up against us. I watched Vunipolo continuously fall off tackles in that game but people want to eulogise about him running through paper in the 60 point hammerings. Aus will be as tough as anything South Africa could put against us and we will need all our big game players doing the basics first - There will be little, if any room for the cameo boys in the Tests and that's why I'm pleased to see Corbisiero on board as he does what a prop should do first thumbsup

by fa0019 Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:13

Didn't Warburton get the MoM award in the Scotland match prior to the England showdown at the MS??? Warburton was not out of form.

by hugehandoff Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:18

Great stuff re all the selection issues and this is proper last chance time for several players. Have a stormer and they could play a major part in the test series and if not then at least they will have some nice Thomas Pink kit to keep. This game and the Brumbies one brings that selection pressure on individual players, which hopefully will stand them in good mettle for the tests. Some England players were found wanting V Wales :(so this is a chance to show Gats they can perform when the stakes are high. If they don't then I would not blame Gats for sticking to a majority of Welsh players who have showed an ability to perform under pressure.

Aside from the individual selection issues this is also a real opportunity to send a message to the Wallabies. If the Tahs push us close it will provide a real boost for the men in Green and Gold but a strong Lions performance and a decent win will do the reverse. Time to lay down a marker boys!

by munkian Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:19

Standulstermen wrote:I think the main areas of contention are

The flankers
Right wing
Hooker
2nd row partner to POC

I don't see the hooker as being a big issue as there isn't much between Hibbard and youngs
The flanks are anyone's guess.
POC/AWJ was found out a bit as a combo 4 years ago. Have things changed? I don't know.

The only changes I would make to the team ruby posted would be youngs at 2 and Tipuric at 7

Hibbard is much stronger in the scrum than Youngs, Youngs is quicker in the loose but Hibbard is a big tackler IMHO

by Mad for Chelsea Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:22

interesting selection, which to me has "test side apart from injuries" written all over it (ie BOD, North, maybe Tuilagi as well). Of course I may be reading too much into it but there's enough there to suggest Gatland showing an early hand.

Props: as expected (including bench).

Hooker: does this mean Youngs has overtaken Hibbard for starting spot?

Locks: a bit harsh on Gray if this is the case, but there are four very strong contenders there.

Backrow: surprised at Croft, again it may be a case of him not having played a huge amount yet. Warbs will play as captain, and been more impressed by Heaslip than Faletau so far, so not too surprised he appears to have jumped ahead in the pecking order.

Half-backs: as expected really, Youngs hasn't done quite enough to force Philips out of the starting jersey.

Centres: can't read too much into this one, with Tuilagi and BOD both being precautionously left out.

Wingers: again, Cuthbert has played a lot so far, and North is injured, so not reading too much into this one, but a great chance for Zebo and Maitland to put their hands up.

Full-back: suggest it's too late for Kearney to force himself into the reckoning, but will hopefully get a decent run-out to test his fitness, Halfpenny looks nailed-on there.

by hugehandoff Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:22

Hibbard is much stronger in the scrum than Hibbard

Does he have a twin?

by gleesonisgod Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:23

Front Row: If Youngs and Vunipola have solid games they will be probably nailed on. Jones pretty much nailed on already. A good performance from Corbisiero should see him take the bench spot although if grant gets a start vs Brumbies things could change. Best could claim the bench spot with a very good performance if he starts vs Brumbies.

2nd Row: POC and Gray the clear standouts. IMO its all to play for between the other three do decide who gets the bench spot.

Back Row: An above average performance from Jamie should see him claim the starting spot as Faletau hasn't really been up to much. SOB and Tipuric the standouts but realistically it's all up in the air. An above average performance from Warbs might be enough for Gatland to justify selecting him.

Scrum Half: You would have to say Philips is basically nailed on. All to play for in the last game between Youngs and Murray but Gatland's tactics will probably have a huge bearing on this decision as well.

Outhalf: Sexton nailed on. Surely it's too late for Hogg unless Gatland starts him at outhalf vs Brumbies and he has a stormer (to claim the bench spot that is)

Centre: Who will partner BOD is the real question. Tuilagi should be the front runner but that's probably not the case knowing Gats and his love for Roberts.

Back Three: North nailed on and Bowe will probably start 2nd Test if fit. Right wing all to play for with Zebo, Maitland, and Cuthbert all getting starts in these last 2 games (or I presume Cuthbert will start vs Brumbies). Zebo you would have to say is quite far behind and Cuthbert shaky defence will really come against him. 1/2p nailed on unless somehow Kearney starts vs Brumbies, playes an absoloute blinder, and Sexton has an unreal kicking display on saturday.

My Test XV: 1.Vunipola 2.Youngs 3.Jones 4.Gray 5.POC 6.SOB 7.Tipuric 8.Heaslip 9.Youngs 10.Sexton 11.North 12.Tuilagi 13.BOD 14.Maitland 15.1/2p........ Subs:Corbs,Best,Cole,Parling,Warburton,Philips,Hogg,Roberts

Probable Test XV: All the same except Warbs for Tipuric, Philips for Youngs, Roberts for Tuilagi, and Farrell for Hogg.

No.6 particularly hard to call.

by hugehandoff Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:25

Mad...Full-back: suggest it's too late for Kearney to force himself into the reckoning,

You are right of course, but planning ahead we need Kearney up and running and match fit a.s.a.p. in case injuries mean he plays in test 2 or 3. Same for all the injured and new players.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 10:56

For the sake of clarity (and my pedantry):

Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray,

Yep, definitely an 'a' not an 'e'

by **Ozzy3213** Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 11:00

People often say that traditionally the team that goes out for the game the Saturday before the test match is pretty close to the side for the first test. In 2009 the corresponding fixture was against Western Province. Of the 15 players that started that match, only four (Bowe, Monye, Jones and Vickery) actually started the first test. From the midweek game, only Monye made the test side.

by fa0019 Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 11:03

If you're involved vs. the Brumbies you won't be in the test 23... perhaps a sniff if you're on the bench.

by R!skysports Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 11:05

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:For the sake of clarity (and my pedantry):

Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray, Gray,

Yep, definitely an 'a' not an 'e'

Its a grey issue this Gray player

by jeffwinger Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 11:07

I'd like to see SOB tried out at 8 on Tuesday, at least for some of the game. If this goes well then he may claim the shirt for the tests, otherwise he's the perfect option for the bench as he covers the whole back row and will have a huge carrying impact when he comes on, especially against tired opposition.

Gray and POC have to start in the second row, they are stand out a long way from the rest. Only potential competition for Gray is AWJ but I don't like the AWJ/POC combo. They're far too similar players. I always like a big brute of a bloke somewhere in the boiler room and Gray fits the bill, as well as being a fine all round player and an incredible athlete.

Croft would be my 6 for his running threat and line out dominance. He is also a far better groundhog than he is ever given credit for, and shows more than enough aggression in and around the tackle.

Warburton will play 7 and if he shows any sort of form/fitness this weekend I'm ok with that. He is the outstanding open side in Britain and Ireland when at his best. He's also a big game player and I'm confident that he'll step up when required. Don't particularly get the fuss over Tipuric, yes he's been decent but against awful opposition. Commentators and many on here take every opportunity to praise any minor contribution but I don't really see him as the saviour that some seem to. Warbs still the better player and will take his place, by which time fitness shouldn't be an issue.

8 should be on form as I think Heaslip and Faletau are a similar standard of player. Heaslip was great against the Force but they were poor. He's also had a very average season (I was quite surprised he was picked to tour) and is be wary of basing a selection on 1 game. If he plays well this week though then its put to bed. Other option would be SOB as mentioned above. Could be interesting.

by ChequeredJersey Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 11:53

bedfordwelsh wrote:Saturdays side is :

Lions team: Leigh Halfpenny; Sean Maitland, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Simon Zebo; Jonathan Sexton, Mike Phillips; Mako Vunipola, Tom Youngs, Adam Jones, Alun Wyn Jones, Paul O'Connell , Tom Croft, Sam Warburton (capt), Jamie Heaslip.
Replacements: Richard Hibbard, Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling, Dan Lydiate, Ben Youngs, Owen Farrell, Rob Kearney.

With the exception of Hibbard could possibly be the test pack though I have reservations over Heaslip and Croft starting.

Def the starting test half backs for me.

Could to see both 10s involved and shaken off their respective knocks and lets hope Kearney gets a good bit of time off the bench.

Good side this. Good match

by GunsGerms Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 12:06

Is this the closest we have seen to the actual test side?

by **George Carlin** Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 12:16

Broadly, yes but there are some glaring ommissions and the bench won't look like that at all.

by **rodders** Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 12:17

Yup. I'd say North and Drico will come in and complete the backline.

Davies to drop to the bench, Gray maybe for AWJ and O'Brien in for Lydiate and that could be pretty much it.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 12:37

I don't see why this keeps getting branded a test side. I would make massive changes. Particularly in the pack.

Lions team:
Leigh Halfpenny
Sean Maitland
~~Jonathan Davies~~ Brian O'Driscoll
Jamie Roberts
~~Simon Zebo~~ George North
Jonathan Sexton
Mike Phillips

Mako Vunipola
Tom Youngs
Adam Jones
~~Alun Wyn Jones~~ Richie Gray
Paul O'Connell (C)
~~Tom Croft~~ Sean O'Brien
~~Sam Warburton~~ Justin Tipuric
Jamie Heaslip

Replacements: Richard Hibbard, Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling, ~~Dan Lydiate~~ Sam Warburton, Ben Youngs, ~~Owen Farrel~~l Stuart Hogg, ~~Rob Kearney~~ Manu Tuilagi

POC & AWJ didn't work as a combo in 2009, I see nothing to indicate it'll work this time around. Unless Sam Warburton is outstanding on Saturday I think his position as captain is in trouble. He is firmly behind SOB for the 6 Jersey and Tipuric for the 7 Jersey.

In the Backs North has been amazing and it's been nice to see him cutting up opposition not just with his power but his outstanding footwork and blistering turn of pace. BOD will almost certainly be starting the test matches. He may have lost a bit of pace but he still has an eye for a gap and can put North, Maitland and Halfpenny in spaces.

That's just my take on things anyway....

by thomh Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 12:37

fa0019 wrote:If you're involved vs. the Brumbies you won't be in the test 23... perhaps a sniff if you're on the bench.

More than a sniff. Only the starting 15 (approximately) won't be in the 23 vs the Brumbies, so basically the whole Test bench will be in there somewhere. Suspect that the team vs Brumbies will have starts for Grant, Best, Stevens, Tipuric, Faletau, Murray, Twelvetrees, Cuthbert and Kearney, with the benches for the two games being largely similar.

If they're going for Youngs on the test bench then they may give him a start as well just to get him some gametime.

by thomh Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 12:45

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I don't see why this keeps getting branded a test side. I would make massive changes. Particularly in the pack.

Lions team:
Leigh Halfpenny
Sean Maitland
~~Jonathan Davies~~ Brian O'Driscoll
Jamie Roberts
~~Simon Zebo~~ George North
Jonathan Sexton
Mike Phillips

Mako Vunipola
Tom Youngs
Adam Jones
~~Alun Wyn Jones~~ Richie Gray
Paul O'Connell (C)
~~Tom Croft~~ Sean O'Brien
~~Sam Warburton~~ Justin Tipuric
Jamie Heaslip

Replacements: Richard Hibbard, Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling, ~~Dan Lydiate~~ Sam Warburton, Ben Youngs, ~~Owen Farrel~~l Stuart Hogg, ~~Rob Kearney~~ Manu Tuilagi

POC & AWJ didn't work as a combo in 2009, I see nothing to indicate it'll work this time around. Unless Sam Warburton is outstanding on Saturday I think his position as captain is untennable. He is firmly behind SOB for the 6 Jersey and Tipuric for the 7 Jersey.

In the Backs North has been amazing and it's been nice to see him cutting up opposition not just with his power but his outstanding footwork and blistering turn of pace. BOD will almost certainly be starting the test matches. He may have lost a bit of pace but he still has an eye for a gap and can put North, Maitland and Halfpenny in spaces.

That's just my take on things anyway....

I'm not sure that anyone has said this is precisely the test side have they, but, given that it's a 39 man squad now, having 10 of the 15 test starters starting this game (your team) would still be a pretty significant number. Then factor in that O'Driscoll, North and Tuilagi are just missing this game to get over slight muscle tightness and it gets even closer.

Also, whether you would go for Tipuric over Warburton or not, I think we have to accept that Warburton will almost certainly be in the test side.

Would you really have Hogg as your replacement 10? Asking for trouble I think.

The AWJ/POC combo on didn't work in 09 because they were up against the best scrummaging and mauling team in the world. That won't be such a tactical consideration this time, and AWJ has improved a lot since then anyway. Like you I'd go for Gray but that doesn't mean Gatland will see it the same.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 13 Jun 2013 - 12:48

I would, but not as an exclusive back up 10, more a utility back. I would think Sexton could finish the whole test match at 10 and Hogg could replace Halfpenny or Maitland with 20 minutes to go...

Bearing in mind I thought that was the whole point of having him play at 10 against the combined team. He was brought along as cover for 10 so why not have him there on the bench? Hogg looked better than Farrell at 10, but to keep it in perspective Farrell had much trickier games. Hogg was given an awful lot of time when he was at 10 but despite that he took the ball at pace well and his handling was excellent.

You can only play what is in front of you and Hogg and the rest of the backline really ripped up that team on Tuesday.

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